Racquet Stiffness Question

TennisCanada1

TennisCanada1

Professional
I am using a Head IG Prestige Pro with silicone in the handle and some lead at 12. I have three of them, all identical.

I love controlled response I get from the racquet, but I am using the prestige only because of that controlled response, and I never thought to take into consideration that if I use a racquet with a low stiffness rating, there will be less power. I like the fact that there is not a lot of power in my prestige despite the 66 stiffness rating.

I would really love to benefit from a racquet that is as flexy as a 60,59,58, or something like that. I would love to get the feeling of cupping around the ball because the Prestige feels stiff on many shots. So my question is this.. would it make sense for me to go for something like a Microgel radical (57 RA) and add cap grommet, silicone, and lead at 12? I don't want something powerful like a pure drive or a steam. The goal in mind is to keep the control oriented feeling but get much more flex so I can pocket the ball more.
 
C

corners

Legend
The difference in "power" between a moderately stiff (66) and flexible frame (60) is very minor. The guys in marketing would have you believe otherwise, and they've convinced many players with their power propaganda over the years, but the objective data from lab studies is pretty clear. If the two racquets are identical in all other respects (static weight, swing weight, string pattern, etc.) but differ in stiffness by 6 RDC points, the stiffer one will deliver shots that are, at most, one mile per hour faster, and this is only on shots hit above and to the sides of the center of the strings.
 
TennisCanada1

TennisCanada1

Professional
My goal is to have a more forgiving racquet that delivers that cupping feeling around the ball to pocket it more.
Therefore which flexy racquet would I benefit transitioning to from the Prestige?
 
ChicagoJack

ChicagoJack

Hall of Fame
corners said:
The difference in "power" between a moderately stiff (66) and flexible frame (60) is very minor. The guys in marketing would have you believe otherwise, and they've convinced many players with their power propaganda over the years, but the objective data from lab studies is pretty clear. If the two racquets are identical in all other respects (static weight, swing weight, string pattern, etc.) but differ in stiffness by 6 RDC points, the stiffer one will deliver shots that are, at most, one mile per hour faster, and this is only on shots hit above and to the sides of the center of the strings.
Click to expand...

You'd never know it from hanging around this rumor mill, but corners is 100% correct. Dozens of links and studies to support this. Power is almost directly related to sw and racquet head speed.
 
Last edited:
movdqa

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
If you want something close but less stiff, you could go with the IG Prestige MP at 62. If you want to go more flexible, then you might look at the PT57A - it's a Prestige at around 56 flex. The older Radicals, while generally more flexible, have a different mold. I personally like both the Radicals and Prestiges but some may not like the differences between the lines.

I have four matched IG Prestige MPs with Silicone and Lead and they are nice. I don't know that I'd like the Prestige Pros though because of the higher stiffness. I can generally play from 62 - 67 but I prefer it to be on the lower end of that range for arm health.
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
PS...
The holy grail exists only for a short period of time, and it exists only in you mind.
 
TennisCanada1

TennisCanada1

Professional
Lukhas said:
You should try the Tecnifibre TFight 315 Ltd.
Click to expand...

I was thinking of that. My friend bought a 320 and it felt like a Toy. I know it isn't the same racquet, but is the 315 comparable to a prestige pro without the stiffness? I saw it has silicone already in the handle, so how would I weight it up? Put lead at 12 and then still a bit of lead on the handle?
 
Lukhas

Lukhas

Legend
Last edited:
DonDiego

DonDiego

Hall of Fame
If you look for «pocketing» or «cupping» the ball more, wouldn't that be a string / tension issue?
 
C

corners

Legend
DonDiego said:
If you look for «pocketing» or «cupping» the ball more, wouldn't that be a string / tension issue?
Click to expand...

Yeah, you can definitely get longer dwell time with strings, or with string pattern. But the flex of the frame is important too, especially if you prefer to play with stiffer strings. For example, if a guy likes Lux Alu strung tight, but also wants long dwell time, he'd pretty much have to go with a flexy stick.
 
C

corners

Legend
ChicagoJack said:
You'd never know it from hanging around this rumor mill, but corners is 100% correct. Dozens of links and studies to support this. Power is almost directly related to sw and racquet head speed.
Click to expand...

ChicagoJack's got my back! :)

Personally, I really wish stiff frames were as powerful as legend has it. I could use a little "power" at my age. But the only place to find that, I've found, is with flexible and elastic strings, open patterns, and physical training. I know you and I have discussed this before, but to my mind frame stiffness does have some benefits for control, and consistency of response across the entire hoop. And I imagine that if one gets used to a hoop that doesn't distort easily on impact it could get addictive. But personally I don't feel like I get enough benefit from this to offset the lack of comfort and feel that is part of the deal. I suppose if I grew up with stiff frames it wouldn't bother me, though.
 
DonDiego

DonDiego

Hall of Fame
corners said:
Yeah, you can definitely get longer dwell time with strings, or with string pattern. But the flex of the frame is important too, especially if you prefer to play with stiffer strings. For example, if a guy likes Lux Alu strung tight, but also wants long dwell time, he'd pretty much have to go with a flexy stick.
Click to expand...

Then the OP needs to be careful and pick a stick that flexes in the upper part of the head, like the C10 Pro. He would get absolutely no additional dwell time with a Youtek Radical Pro (even if its stiffness rating is 58), and a little but not enough IMO with the IG radical Pro, which flexes in the upper throat. Flex rating can be very deceptive, and you need to demo to see for yourself.

But I think the C10 Pro would be a good one to try, specwise it's not far from the Prestige Pro, except for flex.

EDIT: except it can be a bit lively and too powerful at times.
 
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TennisCanada1

TennisCanada1

Professional
I am using MSV Focus Hex Black Gauge 17 at 53lbs. I used to be at 60 until March. I used to use Luxilon Savage but it was too expensive. I chose MSV Focus Hex because I read reviews that it was relatively soft and middle of the road. It seems ok to me. Unless there's a softer and cheaper string?
 
TennisCanada1

TennisCanada1

Professional
Right now I am torn between the Prestige MP, Microgel Radical, or the 315. Of course I would make the necessary customizations.
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Your 53 lbs is very similar in tension to Fed's and Nadal's.
Do you swing as hard as them? Face the same pace and spin of incoming shots?
Drop tension down to 47 to get the pocketing and feel you are looking for.
 
movdqa

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
> Where could I get my hands on PT57A?

They are pro frames - so you'd have to find a source that gets them from a pro. They typically run $500-$600 in very good condition.
 
Backhanded Compliment

Backhanded Compliment

Legend
Perhaps try the Pacific xFeel Pro 95... a softer but similar racket to the prestige pro... PT57's in 16/19 are not that easy or cheap to wrangle. I used to play with the Prestige MP but the Pacific is better (though a little more demanding) in every way. It has more spin potential than the prestige pro too...

But if you want more power than the prestige look elsewhere... any backhand (even slices) that is not driven will end up in the net. That said it has the accuracy of a prestige mid in a mid plus format. really interesting (Im going to have tp get a few more)
 
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Fed Kennedy

Fed Kennedy

Legend
Backhanded Compliment said:
Perhaps try the Pacific xFeel Pro 95... a softer but similar racket to the prestige pro... PT57's in 16/19 are not that easy or cheap to wrangle. I used to play with the Prestige MP but the Pacific is better (though a little more demanding) in every way. It has more spin potential than the prestige pro too...

But if you want more power than the prestige look elsewhere... any backhand (even slices) that is not driven will end up in the net. That said it has the accuracy of a prestige mid in a mid plus format. really interesting (Im going to have tp get a few more)
Click to expand...

Hey what is the grip shape on pacific racquets?
 
hrstrat57

hrstrat57

Hall of Fame
Focus hex? Drop tension to mid 40s and get back to me.

Pt 630 is a pt 57 a same super soft flex easily avail used.

Try the tension drop before you give up on a racquet you like.
 
Sander001

Sander001

Hall of Fame
TennisCanada1 said:
My goal is to have a more forgiving racquet that delivers that cupping feeling around the ball to pocket it more.
Therefore which flexy racquet would I benefit transitioning to from the Prestige?
Click to expand...
You may not find that a more flexible racquet is more forgiving. Remember that a stiffer frame is more stable and has a larger sweetspot.
 
HRB

HRB

Hall of Fame
TennisCanada1 said:
My goal is to have a more forgiving racquet that delivers that cupping feeling around the ball to pocket it more.
Therefore which flexy racquet would I benefit transitioning to from the Prestige?
Click to expand...

Go find an old Radical Tour Twin Tube MP (Zebra or Candy Cane)....it's basically what eventually became the Prestige MP's but with more flex, while they turned Radicals into lightweight toys!
 
TennisCanada1

TennisCanada1

Professional
Thanks guys!
After reading all of this, I think my best bet is to demo a Prestige MP and put my string in at 50lbs. If a lower RA means a smaller sweetspot and less power, then 62 is a good compromise between my 66 Prestige Pro and the racquets in the 50's.
 
TennisCanada1

TennisCanada1

Professional
Thanks guys!
After reading all of this, I think my best bet is to demo a Prestige MP and put my string in at 50lbs. If a lower RA means a smaller sweetspot and less power, then 62 is a good compromise between my 66 Prestige Pro and the racquets in the 50's.
 
TennisCanada1

TennisCanada1

Professional
Before I change racquets, I am going to switch my strings from MSV Focus Hex at 53lbs to a Hybrid of RPM Blast (45lbs) and NRG2 (50lbs)
 
H

Hawbolt

Rookie
If your looking for more ball pocketing, I am not too sure flexy racquet is the way to go. Wouldn't loose strings on a stiffer racquet pocket the ball much better?

In my experience, flexy racquets almost bend away from the ball as opposed to cupping it. But maybe I wasn't hitting with it well.
 
TennisCanada1

TennisCanada1

Professional
TennisCanada1 said:
Before I change racquets, I am going to switch my strings from MSV Focus Hex at 53lbs to a Hybrid of RPM Blast (45lbs) and NRG2 (50lbs)
Click to expand...

I just tried it yesterday for 3 hours, and I have a huge loss of power on my serve and less control/grip on my groundstrokes. Is this normal when going from full poly to a hybrid? It just feels wrong...I dropped tension, I should be getting more power on my serve :-?
 
movdqa

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
I tried going from poly to multi a while ago. I didn't like it. Back to poly. There's nothing like poly.
 
C

colowhisper

Semi-Pro
TennisCanada1 said:
I just tried it yesterday for 3 hours, and I have a huge loss of power on my serve and less control/grip on my groundstrokes. Is this normal when going from full poly to a hybrid? It just feels wrong...I dropped tension, I should be getting more power on my serve :-?
Click to expand...

I play PP too and found that vs gut mains and a smooth poly cross is the ideal set up for comfort and power to compliment the frame. I use Yonex Poly Pro Tour 125 or MSV co focus in the crosses 3-5 pounds less than gut mains. You might try that before embarking on a frame quest.
 
T

TennisCJC

Legend
try the Wilson ps 6.1 95. The box beam gives you the feeling that you are holding on the ball and telling it where to go. This racket needs weight added to the head but the feel sounds like what you are looking for.

Rad is good option too. Too flexy for me but ball does seem to stay on the strings awhile.

Gut strings or gut/poly as recommended above would be worth a shot.
 
J

JAL

New User
IG Prestige Pro

I have been in a similar dilemma and find my modified PP too stiff. This is highlighted when I get a short ball dwell time too low no matter which string used. PP needs to have lower flex have changed to Dunlop Biomimetic 200 tour which seems to have solved my problems. Also found PP slow through the air low head speed much improved with Dunlop. It's all a trade however PP very direct and accurate.
 
G

gameboy

Hall of Fame
corners said:
ChicagoJack's got my back! :)

Personally, I really wish stiff frames were as powerful as legend has it. I could use a little "power" at my age. But the only place to find that, I've found, is with flexible and elastic strings, open patterns, and physical training. I know you and I have discussed this before, but to my mind frame stiffness does have some benefits for control, and consistency of response across the entire hoop. And I imagine that if one gets used to a hoop that doesn't distort easily on impact it could get addictive. But personally I don't feel like I get enough benefit from this to offset the lack of comfort and feel that is part of the deal. I suppose if I grew up with stiff frames it wouldn't bother me, though.
Click to expand...

Nice to see at least some people around here base their posts on actual facts. Reading this board is like watching Salem witch trials sometimes...
 
tmc5005

tmc5005

Rookie
Hi,
My list of top 10 arm friendly racquets may be a good starting point most of these racquets are similiar to what you are using but a little more flexible:

Babolat New Pure Storm-LTD GT (95)
DUNLOP Biomimetic Max 200G
HEAD-Youtek-IG-Prestige-MP
PACIFIC X Feel Pro 95
Prince EXO3 Rebel (95)
Prince EXO3 Tour (100) 16 x 18
Pro Kennex Kinetic KI5 315
Volkl Power Bridge-10 Mid (93)
Volkl Organix 10 325G
Wilson Prostaff Six.One BLX (95)
 
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