Povl Carstensen
Legend
This effect can occur at any time of the day. I know people are different as to how sensitive they are to carbs, btw.
Paleo worked for me
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Bartelby
Bionic Poster
Yes, I only mentioned the siesta because it's typical of cultures where they eat large meals in the middle of the day, rest and then go out to work again.
We eat larger meals at night, which if they contain carbs means we are eating them when we are shutting down for the day, so this is not good.
We eat larger meals at night, which if they contain carbs means we are eating them when we are shutting down for the day, so this is not good.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
If I try to play tennis without having any carbs this sometimes leads to a somewhat distressed state due to the lowered blood sugar and I am not alone.
It makes the sleep-inducing meal of carbs when one is not playing seem rather trivial. Indeed, the sleepiness it produces is rather enjoyable.
It makes the sleep-inducing meal of carbs when one is not playing seem rather trivial. Indeed, the sleepiness it produces is rather enjoyable.
The first thing most restuarants bring you is bread. Most desert products are bread based. Add that to your morning bagel/cereal/oatmeal. Then your sandwich/pizza for lunch..Not to mention the hidden grains in lots of other things and 90% of the population is on the grain roller coaster. Just as addictive as nicotine and alcohol.
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It is possible to switch that carb induced energy to fat induced energy but most people will never do it..Easier to eat chewy goo
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
That is possible but not easy for even fit athletic types, but why even try when it is not necessary to do so. Ketosis can even be dangerous.
READ my friend, It's all out there.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
You need to read critically and not merely read what's out there.
So you eat zero carbs from things like grains?
What food groups do you get them from then?
So you eat zero carbs from things like grains?
What food groups do you get them from then?
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If you are serious about trying paleo or learning more start by googling "paleo for athletes" and READ. I cannot itemize 13 months of my experience in a few sentences.
ps also reread my entire thread as i outline most of the food i eat
ps i didn't read what's "out there". i read hard cover books by doctors and scientists and did the hard yards to achieve results.
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Yes, eggs, homemade yogurt and whole milk in protein shakes. Dairy is a "tweener food" on paleo. Some advocates are for or against. Read and investigate, there is tons of info out there.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
So where does the Paleo diet stand on animal husbandry and plant cultivation given these are practices that only began in the Mesolithic era?
Conceptually speaking, the Paleo diet is really a Mesolithic one:
The Paleolithic was an age of purely hunting and gathering while in the Neolithic domestication of plants and animals had occurred. Some Mesolithic peoples continued with intensive hunting. Others were practising the initial stages of domestication.
Conceptually speaking, the Paleo diet is really a Mesolithic one:
The Paleolithic was an age of purely hunting and gathering while in the Neolithic domestication of plants and animals had occurred. Some Mesolithic peoples continued with intensive hunting. Others were practising the initial stages of domestication.
Good Question, but look these things up on google. The "paleo diet" is only a blueprint surname.
Yes i agree, paleo could use a better name but it's too late. "Paleo" is here and evolving. Top people in the industry with real credentials are getting it more organized. I know a big wig in the food industry that told me Paleo is the "medical marajuana" of the future. But it will take years before the food industry makes changes. I am far from an expert. But i am a DOER, Not a theorist. I read the books, went thru the pysiological changes, went thru fatigue until my body adapted. Talking to others about it is difficult because people cannot concieve their lives without bread products, so after the initial excitement i stopped.
One of the biggest things i learned and put into practice was learning about new ways to eat the same foods just by using different flour. The results speak for themselves. Much bigger testosterone numbers. (Grains kill your manliness as you get older) . Much better endurance/muscularity and flexibility. Too much to list here.
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Povl Carstensen
Legend
Really no need to get to caught up in the name, or be to dogmatic about it. The principles and ideas and experiences are what is interesting to discuss and share imo. Ofcourse also related research and science. For instance as I mentioned earlier, I think that substituting grains with more greens does not seem like a very hazardeous idea. But now i think I will reread the thread, been a while.
Edit: And yes agree no grain/no sugar seems to be a very big part of the principle concept.
Edit: And yes agree no grain/no sugar seems to be a very big part of the principle concept.
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You're right Povl, it's complicated at first but is simple at the same time..The best place to start and find useful interesting information is here. But be prepared to spend several hours. http://www.marksdailyapple.com
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
If you look at the history of grains and sugar, it is really only sugar that is new in terms of high levels of human consumption.
It essentially took off in the nineteenth century whereas grains are a product of the neolithic revolution.
This is important because a lot is made of the evolutionary novelty of grains in paleo literature, but it is not true.
Sugar alone seems to be relatively new both in terms of cultivation, but more especially use.
It essentially took off in the nineteenth century whereas grains are a product of the neolithic revolution.
This is important because a lot is made of the evolutionary novelty of grains in paleo literature, but it is not true.
Sugar alone seems to be relatively new both in terms of cultivation, but more especially use.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
Guyenet seems to make radical concessions - he really is not advocating a paleolithic diet at all for most people:
Should we all eat a hunter-gatherer diet? Not necessarily. Human evolution did not end with the Paleolithic era. Each person carries a particular set of genetic adaptations that result from the unique dietary environment of his own ancestors, so it's important to emphasize that traditionally prepared grains, legumes and dairy can be healthy foods for many people.
In fact, he is arguing for a post-industrial whole foods diet full of grains, legumes and dairy - just not their industrialised versions:
Over the last century, a period far too short for significant genetic adaptation, industrialization has changed radically the way we eat.
Today, the majority of food that typical Americans eat is prepared commercially, either in packages or from restaurants, and refined sugars and fats are universal. These foods are designed to be extremely palatable — so palatable, in fact, they run roughshod over the body's normal satiety signals and encourage overeating. The top six calorie sources in the U.S. diet today are grain-based desserts (cake, cookies, etc.), yeast breads, chicken-based dishes, sweetened beverages, pizza and alcoholic beverages. These are a far cry from the foods that sustained our ancestors.
In short, paleolithic diet is simply low carb, low sugar whole foods - a prescription and dietary recommendation around for a long time:
"People who significantly increase the amount of vegetables, fish, nuts, lean meats and fresh fruits in their diet, and who reduce their grain, dairy, and legume intake have lower blood sugars, usually lose weight, and usually have more energy," says Dr. C. Vicky Beer, a local physician who uses the Paleo diet in her clinical practice. "Every patient I have ever had with diabetes who has adhered to the Paleo diet for most of the time has experienced dramatic results," she adds.
Should we all eat a hunter-gatherer diet? Not necessarily. Human evolution did not end with the Paleolithic era. Each person carries a particular set of genetic adaptations that result from the unique dietary environment of his own ancestors, so it's important to emphasize that traditionally prepared grains, legumes and dairy can be healthy foods for many people.
In fact, he is arguing for a post-industrial whole foods diet full of grains, legumes and dairy - just not their industrialised versions:
Over the last century, a period far too short for significant genetic adaptation, industrialization has changed radically the way we eat.
Today, the majority of food that typical Americans eat is prepared commercially, either in packages or from restaurants, and refined sugars and fats are universal. These foods are designed to be extremely palatable — so palatable, in fact, they run roughshod over the body's normal satiety signals and encourage overeating. The top six calorie sources in the U.S. diet today are grain-based desserts (cake, cookies, etc.), yeast breads, chicken-based dishes, sweetened beverages, pizza and alcoholic beverages. These are a far cry from the foods that sustained our ancestors.
In short, paleolithic diet is simply low carb, low sugar whole foods - a prescription and dietary recommendation around for a long time:
"People who significantly increase the amount of vegetables, fish, nuts, lean meats and fresh fruits in their diet, and who reduce their grain, dairy, and legume intake have lower blood sugars, usually lose weight, and usually have more energy," says Dr. C. Vicky Beer, a local physician who uses the Paleo diet in her clinical practice. "Every patient I have ever had with diabetes who has adhered to the Paleo diet for most of the time has experienced dramatic results," she adds.
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Bartelby
Bionic Poster
Guyenet's personal diet:
I hope it was clear from the article that I'm not claiming Paleo is the Optimal Diet for All People. Although I recognize that strict Paleo has helped many people, I don't really eat Paleo, personally. I eat Paleo plus beans, non-gluten grains, and a modest amount of pastured dairy, which I prepare in my home using traditional methods. One of my main sources of starch is potatoes, which I consider Paleo but some people wouldn't.
I hope it was clear from the article that I'm not claiming Paleo is the Optimal Diet for All People. Although I recognize that strict Paleo has helped many people, I don't really eat Paleo, personally. I eat Paleo plus beans, non-gluten grains, and a modest amount of pastured dairy, which I prepare in my home using traditional methods. One of my main sources of starch is potatoes, which I consider Paleo but some people wouldn't.
Povl Carstensen
Legend
Sounds good, and probably not far from comebacks experience. Personally, I also seem to have less of a problem with potatoes than bread.
Hey Povl, I eat potatoes ,mostly sweet/yams but white too! They are still considered a vegetable (though starchy)
One thing seldom mentioned here are healthy fats..I increased my consumption of nuts,avocados, olives, eggs , oils, butter, even creames.
Ash_Smith
Legend
Some interesting viewpoints in here...
http://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/eating-clean-vs-orthorexia
The whole bloating from bread is an interesting issue, a study over here was referenced on the radio the other day suggesting that this "trend" (fad?) for cutting bread because it makes you bloated is retry baseless except for around 0.5% of the population, who have a medical intolerance and that pasta, for example is much more likely to cause that bloating feeling, but even then in a minority of cases. Whole wheat bread for example is a good source of fibre, iron, omega 3, vitamin E, manganese, selenium etc, so cutting it completely, unless you medically need to, seems a bit far - although if you were previously eating a loaf a day, cutting back is likely a good idea
A bit like the egg yolks in the above link, strikes me that it might be a case of...
http://inspiringthings.mobi/simple-experiment-monkeys-perfectly-explains-society-holds-us-back.html
http://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/eating-clean-vs-orthorexia
The whole bloating from bread is an interesting issue, a study over here was referenced on the radio the other day suggesting that this "trend" (fad?) for cutting bread because it makes you bloated is retry baseless except for around 0.5% of the population, who have a medical intolerance and that pasta, for example is much more likely to cause that bloating feeling, but even then in a minority of cases. Whole wheat bread for example is a good source of fibre, iron, omega 3, vitamin E, manganese, selenium etc, so cutting it completely, unless you medically need to, seems a bit far - although if you were previously eating a loaf a day, cutting back is likely a good idea
A bit like the egg yolks in the above link, strikes me that it might be a case of...
http://inspiringthings.mobi/simple-experiment-monkeys-perfectly-explains-society-holds-us-back.html
Paleo is iffy on dairy - some people say no - and some say small amounts are okay. This is because some hunter gathers will kill an animal - suck down its milk then take it back to the temporary village to be shared by the tribe. Its the same with tubers - its supposed to be the occasional tuber.
The idea is to eat like we did when we were hunter gatherers and not farmers as this was a longer evolutionary period..and we are adapted to eat like that.. Plenty of people think its silly..and it is indeed unsustainable for people who are not wealthy..
The idea is to eat like we did when we were hunter gatherers and not farmers as this was a longer evolutionary period..and we are adapted to eat like that.. Plenty of people think its silly..and it is indeed unsustainable for people who are not wealthy..
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Povl Carstensen
Legend
I eat my potatoes mainly with peel, supposedly a bit healthier, and lower GI. Have linseed oil on my veggies in the morning. Always have nuts in the house. Also ofcourse eat eggs, fish, use butter for cooking some of the time (has the "right" taste for some dishes, and good heating stability I understand). Part of my challenge is that I am in the habit of eating aprox. every 3-3½ hours, and it makes it a bit more difficult to stay off grains etc for all of the normally 5 meals I have in a day.
Povl Carstensen
Legend
I suggest we focus the discussion more on nutrition and how it works and less on the rigorous paleo hunter lifestyle dogma. Much more fruitfull imo.
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Povl Carstensen
Legend
The thread is called Paleo worked for me, and I would greatly appreciate if we kept this positive, experience sharing angle on it.
Right Povl, people are going to read these last few pages and not get the real meaning of Paleo..Nobody cares anymore what the huntergathers did, it's about getting healthy NOW.
It's easy to google negative stuff and post it here. But i'm trying to challenge people to try it. From birth we have been brought up to eat grains (which turn into sugar anyway) that are 80% or more highly processed. But why are people so overweight now? Why do we see lots of diabetes and heart disease? Why is our life expectancy still in the 70's. It's getting worse not better.That's why the Paleo movement started. People were sick of being sick and tired.
IMHO, One of the main points i found in my experience is that you can fully function on grains until 50 years old .Then when things start to go downhill it's very difficult to change the convenience of eating grain based foods. So right now it hard for the younger generation to change something they and their parents' have been brought up on.
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Thanks , again please bring these comments to the "grains vs no grains" thread
Sounds very similar to me Povl, Luckily for me my wife make me jugs of hearty soups like creme of brocholi, butternut squash soup, avocado soup and spinich smoothies that i can fill my day with..once i got under 150lbs i found i didn't need as much food anyway. Many people don't understand the difference between feeding 145lbs vs feeding 180lbs..It adds up!
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Povl Carstensen
Legend
Sometimes science is doing catchup to empirical experience. And as I said before, I seriously doubt any science would deem it hazardeous to replace grains with greens.
Edit: Hm, yes I need a wife, hm...
Edit: Hm, yes I need a wife, hm...
Sentinel
Bionic Poster
OP ,
Could you summarize the Paleo and answer a few questions.
Iirc, i read here it was -- no grain , no sugar.
1. What does it say about fruit ? Are juices okay.
2. What about rice - (simple carb). I am thinking of moving from bread to rice.
3. What of milk/dairy products ?
thanks.
Could you summarize the Paleo and answer a few questions.
Iirc, i read here it was -- no grain , no sugar.
1. What does it say about fruit ? Are juices okay.
2. What about rice - (simple carb). I am thinking of moving from bread to rice.
3. What of milk/dairy products ?
thanks.
PLEASE, IF YOU ARE PRO RICE DO NOT POST YOUR ARGUEMENT HERE. THERE ARE OTHER "RICE" THREADS THAT YOU CAN POST IN
Hi Sentenel, 95% of Paleo is simply no grains no sugar.
1. Fruit is allowed (I eat it for tennis/excercise energy). But they advise limiting fruit if you are trying to lose weight. Real fruit juices are allowed because fruit is natural but it's in such a concentrated state that raises insulin levels pretty high.
2.Rice is not paleo because it's considered a "seed/grain" Paleo recommends potatoes and vegetables. (i don't eat rice)
3. Milk and dairy are tweener foods on paleo. They usually say if you can "tolerate" dairy. I guess dairy causes bloating and other digestive problems with people. But luckily not me, so i have whole milk with fruit and protein powder with my green smoothies. I also got into making my own yogurt with whole milk and it's great. I add cinnamon or fruit or lemon curd. It's also great for making creamy salad dressing. For a $3 gallon of whole milk, i get a gallon of great, thick plain greek style yogurt that saves me $20 a month. (i would never eat store bought sweetened yogurt)
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Bartelby
Bionic Poster
1. Fruit juices are considered pretty bad by dietitians because of the loss of fibre compared to whole fruit. A caveman with a juicer is pretty frightening.
2. Rice is a complex carb, but the white version is considered inferior because it is overly refined. It seems however to have less issues than bread.
3. Milk/dairy proves paleo to be a bit of a fraud because there is no real reason to include it and exclude grains as they are both quite new foods involving recent evolutionary adaptations by humans and some are stiill either lactose or gluten intolerant.
That seems at least the picture from what I can glean from reputable sources.
2. Rice is a complex carb, but the white version is considered inferior because it is overly refined. It seems however to have less issues than bread.
3. Milk/dairy proves paleo to be a bit of a fraud because there is no real reason to include it and exclude grains as they are both quite new foods involving recent evolutionary adaptations by humans and some are stiill either lactose or gluten intolerant.
That seems at least the picture from what I can glean from reputable sources.
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Povl Carstensen
Legend
What do you do for protein to complement these soups and smoothies?
And does your wife cater in Europe, or perhaps she could open her own thread with recipies?
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I use Muscle Milk protein powder which i buy in in 6lb bags in Costco. I mix dry spinich leaves in a blender with a big scoop (34grams of protein) with whole milk, water, and fresh frozen bananas, berries that i keep in the freezer. It makes about a quart that i drink over 2-3 days for energy. I eat all protein sources with the soups: meat,fish, eggs, dairy. I just don't overeat. Just enough to feed 148lbs.
I live in Colorado but my wife's ancestery is Ukranian/Czech and she has sold her soups at construction sites but it's a lot or work to make big batches. Other great Italian dishes she makes are plantain lasagna and eggplant parmigiana with fresh tomato sauce . Right now she is making fresh strawberry strudel/crumble with almond flower and coconut sugar w fresh whipped creme..I am a lucky man. But really the food i discovered on paleo is so much better tasteing than fast food.
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Sentinel
Bionic Poster
Thanks for your replies, comeback and bart.
I am essentially trying to get off grain since wheat gives me breathing problems when i run. Rice (white) was just a convenient alternative where i am.
Also i thought I read somewhere on this thread that grain is suspected to be a cause of diabetes and i have a lot of that in my family.
Otherwise, my milk/dairy consumption is almost zero.
However, you mention potatoes. I used to read a lot against potatoes.
Weight is not an issue with me, i am underweight.
I am essentially trying to get off grain since wheat gives me breathing problems when i run. Rice (white) was just a convenient alternative where i am.
Also i thought I read somewhere on this thread that grain is suspected to be a cause of diabetes and i have a lot of that in my family.
Otherwise, my milk/dairy consumption is almost zero.
However, you mention potatoes. I used to read a lot against potatoes.
Weight is not an issue with me, i am underweight.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
I think diabetes has led to a re-definition of food in terms of low and high glycemic index, so bread and potatoes can be on the high side of that.
Potatoes are nutritious and low calorie if you prepare them austerely. I like to steam them and then shallow fry them with garlic onion and kale.
Rice is a good alternative to bread, but have you tried ancient grains like spelt and kamnut?
Potatoes are nutritious and low calorie if you prepare them austerely. I like to steam them and then shallow fry them with garlic onion and kale.
Rice is a good alternative to bread, but have you tried ancient grains like spelt and kamnut?
Sentinel
Bionic Poster
Hearing of this for the first time, comes up on Kamut on google.
However ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamut
I am told gluten is the very issue i have with wheat in the first place. So i need an alternative without gluten.
r2473
G.O.A.T.
This is comeback's thread. The point of the thread is simply for him to share his experiences and fantastic results as a means of inspiring and educating others.
Bart, you've made your point, now give it a rest.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
I can't see that I've made any point at all and I mean that quite literally, but a post by you with no mention of bacon. Are you all right?
Thanks so much r2473 and Povl i really appreciate your support. Posting pictures and giving details of my personal life was not the easiest thing to do, but i felt since i started my own thread i should give detailed honest answers. Paleo is a lot of things to a lot of people. I get it that it that Paleo strikes a cord in some people most likely due to their own insecurity of possibly not being happy with themselves. I get all of that because i was there myself. Until you live a Paleo blueprint for almost 14 months and make daily ADJUSTMENTS, it is difficult to understand. Like starting tennis or any new endeaver in life, the beginning is complicated; then it gets more routine, like a teacher's lesson plan.
Several things i would like to repeat: my testosterone jumped to 753 an unheard of figure for a 63 year old man. Testosterone is like a natural steriod that professional athletes are cheating with to get results. My flexibility/stiff muscles improved tremendously. Pick up a 30 lb dumbbell and run with it and see how it holds you back. Energy/sexuality, all these things could not have just happened.
Last week i played in a 4.5 USTA tournament. I lost in a grueling first round 6-3-6-4..I thought i could have played a little better but i just got beat by a good 35 year old (that made it 3 more rounds to the semi's). The tournament director later told me i was 20-30 years older than all other competitors. Since I don't take losses well the next day i played a 40year old 5.0 guy and lost 7-6,6-3. Before Paleo i would have taken off the next day from being sore. So i was ecstatic that i can still play with these younger guys.
Believe me i am not bragging , just so happy to have a 3rd act in life. I think a personal story like this goes much farther than copying a google search. Since i have put myself on the line, i plan to post a live tennis match of me this summer and continue to post pictures of my progress on Paleo. I hope to see other real paleo experiences here soon to keep this valuable info alive.
Any personal questions :my email is comeback@safe-mail.net
maggmaster
Hall of Fame
I hope I am where you are when I am your age.
Thanks Maggmaster, up till 45 i thought i was Superman and would live forever. Now i know i won't live forever but at least i feel like Superman (LOL)
