Maximagq
Banned
I would destroy any 4.0 even at 14 or 15 man. Come on LOL. Even though I couldn't serve, my groundstrokes were still there.
Is it too late to become a 5.5-6 NTRP player?
- Thread starter Funkdrummer
- Start date
I would destroy any 4.0 even at 14 or 15 man. Come on LOL. Even though I couldn't serve, my groundstrokes were still there.
Maximagq
Banned
This is HS tennis, you can't seriously tell me these guys can't win a the 4.5 level. I used to practice with the San Marino kids all the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFGLW7aU55U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFGLW7aU55U
Your examples of "high school" tennis uses 16-18 year olds.
YOU, as a 14 year old, would get bagelled by those guys.
YOU, as a 18 year old, would bagel yourself when you were 14, and 15.
I practiced with lots of prodigies of ages 12-16, and none could hang in real set play with with older solid 4.5's or B's. Sure, they could hit from the baseline using topspin looking much better than any B player, but set play is different from just hitting from the baseline.
Remember, YOU, now almost fully grown, 5'11" and 145 lbs., is a solid 5.0 NOW.
How could you possibly be at close to your level 3 years ago?
YOU, as a 14 year old, would get bagelled by those guys.
YOU, as a 18 year old, would bagel yourself when you were 14, and 15.
I practiced with lots of prodigies of ages 12-16, and none could hang in real set play with with older solid 4.5's or B's. Sure, they could hit from the baseline using topspin looking much better than any B player, but set play is different from just hitting from the baseline.
Remember, YOU, now almost fully grown, 5'11" and 145 lbs., is a solid 5.0 NOW.
How could you possibly be at close to your level 3 years ago?
Maximagq
Banned
I was around 5'8"" as a freshman and I'm not saying I was a 5.0 back then. However, I was definitely able to beat 4.0's even then. I'm trying to find a match to put up but I don't really have too many videos of myself playing back then. Yes, I would have been bageled by those high schoolers but those guys were in the finals of Ojai and show that many juniors could destroy 4.5 players. Adults really aren't that good until you get into the Open level or if you have 4.5 ringers.
Cobaine
Semi-Pro
I am fully convinced that LeeD posts contradictory nonsense to increase his post count. Either that or he's mentally ill.
My practice partners in high school, when I was a C player going to winning C tournaments, and the year after.....
ByronNepemocino, aged 16 when we first started hitting, top 5 in NorCal16's, most thought he would turn pro easily, won 2 AsianNationals later, No.1 for SI catholic high.
RaleighZalameda, from 17-19, graduated from MissionHigh to play #4 for CanadaCollege, then a D-2 school. Won SanFranciscoAAA championship vs PeanutLouie.
MikeGee, but he was really short, at age 17, a regular hitting peer, most thought would play solid B's.
Kevin and MichaelHoward, sons of Gil Howard, both No.1's for their high schools at different years, Mike becoming a solid A player 2 years after high school graduation.
Mostly, we were splitting sets, very even overall. My doubles partner DexterLee would kill those guys 3's. He was No.2 for CCSF and later No.1 for SanFrancisco State College.
MareenLouie, sis's Marcie and Marna, but never singles with Marisa.
TracyHouk, aged 13-14 then, became NorCal A's No.1 by 18, but then, she was still learning to hit hard.
Remember, I was a C player then, but did win a 128 draw C tourney at the end of summer.
ByronNepemocino, aged 16 when we first started hitting, top 5 in NorCal16's, most thought he would turn pro easily, won 2 AsianNationals later, No.1 for SI catholic high.
RaleighZalameda, from 17-19, graduated from MissionHigh to play #4 for CanadaCollege, then a D-2 school. Won SanFranciscoAAA championship vs PeanutLouie.
MikeGee, but he was really short, at age 17, a regular hitting peer, most thought would play solid B's.
Kevin and MichaelHoward, sons of Gil Howard, both No.1's for their high schools at different years, Mike becoming a solid A player 2 years after high school graduation.
Mostly, we were splitting sets, very even overall. My doubles partner DexterLee would kill those guys 3's. He was No.2 for CCSF and later No.1 for SanFrancisco State College.
MareenLouie, sis's Marcie and Marna, but never singles with Marisa.
TracyHouk, aged 13-14 then, became NorCal A's No.1 by 18, but then, she was still learning to hit hard.
Remember, I was a C player then, but did win a 128 draw C tourney at the end of summer.
Maximagq
Banned
I was still 13 in this video. Looking at a lot of the 4.0's online, I think I could beat them even then.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcSRqWhbGps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcSRqWhbGps
Maximagq
Banned
I am fully convinced that LeeD posts contradictory nonsense to increase his post count. Either that or he's mentally ill.
Probably both. Normal people graduate high school at 18 in this country.
No.
Even in your 15 year old vids, you would be very hard pressed to hang with real 4.0 players.
They would slice you low, loop a few topspins, serve more accurately than you've seen, and also harder.
Maybe you could bagel a newbie recent bumped up 4.0, but no chance against a league 4.0.
Most league 4.0's played singles for their D-2 or 3 schools, and regularly enter 4.5 level tournaments.
Even old farts like me, never playng in the juniors, had mostly D-2 singles guys as my doubles partners and hitting partners. We never had problems easily beating the junior players ranked in the top 6 or so in NorCal junior 16's.
Yes, the 18''s could beat us, but they mostly went on to D-1 singles, like your friend playing #4 for UCLA.
Even in your 15 year old vids, you would be very hard pressed to hang with real 4.0 players.
They would slice you low, loop a few topspins, serve more accurately than you've seen, and also harder.
Maybe you could bagel a newbie recent bumped up 4.0, but no chance against a league 4.0.
Most league 4.0's played singles for their D-2 or 3 schools, and regularly enter 4.5 level tournaments.
Even old farts like me, never playng in the juniors, had mostly D-2 singles guys as my doubles partners and hitting partners. We never had problems easily beating the junior players ranked in the top 6 or so in NorCal junior 16's.
Yes, the 18''s could beat us, but they mostly went on to D-1 singles, like your friend playing #4 for UCLA.
Maximagq
Banned
Show me an average League 4.0 that can do this. I don't buy it. Maybe guys in the Top 25, but not the average League 4.0.
Matt, notice I now give you 5.0.
Now think about this. Are you saying your old 15 year old self would get TWO games off you NOW? Nope, bagels.
Your 14 year old self would have trouble getting 2 points a game off you now.
You DID improve some, going from 15 to 19, haven't you?
No way a younger version of yourself, especially THREE years younger, would get a game off you now.
Now think about this. Are you saying your old 15 year old self would get TWO games off you NOW? Nope, bagels.
Your 14 year old self would have trouble getting 2 points a game off you now.
You DID improve some, going from 15 to 19, haven't you?
No way a younger version of yourself, especially THREE years younger, would get a game off you now.
Maximagq
Banned
I was still 15 in this video. I think my opponent is better than 4.0 despite all the double faults. If not better than 4.0, at least 4.0
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=130498497021569&set=vb.100001842579417&type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=130498497021569&set=vb.100001842579417&type=3&theater
Maximagq
Banned
Here's me when I was still 15 with my old female coach from Hungary.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1373654041107&set=vb.1824489630&type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1373654041107&set=vb.1824489630&type=3&theater
Maximagq
Banned
More 15 year old videos. Sorry I realize I hijacked this thread so I'll stop posting videos on this thread after this one.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1409934268090&set=vb.1824489630&type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1408757598674&set=vb.1824489630&type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1409934268090&set=vb.1824489630&type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1408757598674&set=vb.1824489630&type=3&theater
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Funkdrummer
New User
Thanks for the advice, it was very informative! You quite literally everything in such beautiful detail!
Yes, both were varsity teams. For Badminton, I was a mixed doubles player although I do intend to play singles for tennis. And I was a back catcher and 5th in the batting lineup. I'm not sure if this information helps but I guess it's worth telling eh? 
caugas
Semi-Pro
Just putting this out there I hit with the #4 12 and under New England junior who was ranked number #24 NE 14 and under and his skills where mind blowing. If I had to give him a shill level I would rank him 4.5, (depth, control, pace, shot placement). My arm was killing me the next day from his TS. However he has had a ton of private training. Way better than me, and will easily get full ride to a D1 school. However this is just an outlyer. Most HS players play at less than 3.0/3.5 level. Let the bashing of caugas begin
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caugas
Semi-Pro
You look like a very good player
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Maximagq
Banned
I play a lot better now than 3 years ago.
Yes, you are now 5.0.
You play a LOT better now than then.
4 years ago, you were a hard hitting 3.5, no better.
I"m a handicapped 4.0. Have not lost a set, out of 3, to NorCal's Junior Girl's No. FOUR this year. She can hit even with most 4.5's.
I cannot hit even with most 4.5's.
But, due to 33 years of tennis, former A/Open level for a couple of years, I know how to beat the women and girls.
My peers lose to her bagels all the time, sometimes 3's.
You play a LOT better now than then.
4 years ago, you were a hard hitting 3.5, no better.
I"m a handicapped 4.0. Have not lost a set, out of 3, to NorCal's Junior Girl's No. FOUR this year. She can hit even with most 4.5's.
I cannot hit even with most 4.5's.
But, due to 33 years of tennis, former A/Open level for a couple of years, I know how to beat the women and girls.
My peers lose to her bagels all the time, sometimes 3's.
Maximagq
Banned
I'm not a girl though LOL. I'll make a new thread.
maggmaster
Hall of Fame
He was not a 3.5. Stop embarrassing yourself. He probably hasn't been a 3.5 since he was 10.
Chas Tennis
G.O.A.T.
5.5 & 6.0 ?
A few years ago 2009(?) there was a very big one-time realignment of USTA levels. After the change there was more interest in the levels and the new distribution.
Here is a reply from a TW thread.
I just found this so my interpretation should be checked. But there were only 192 5.5 players registered in the NTRP system, or active ?. That is only four 5.5 players per state on average. In my county area, which is active, most years there are not enough 4.5 players to sustain a USTA 4.5 Adult league. When they have a 4.5 league, it is only a 2 team league. I believe nearby counties might have some 4.5 leagues.
I guess that 5.5 & 6.0 players play mostly in USTA 'Open' tournaments. ?
Maybe someone has some more recent data on the NTRP distribution?
A few years ago 2009(?) there was a very big one-time realignment of USTA levels. After the change there was more interest in the levels and the new distribution.
Here is a reply from a TW thread.
Threw the numbers into Excel:
Looks like all they did was redistribute a little from the 'left' side of the curve to the 'right' side. Basically, 3.0 got smaller while 4.0 increased by a roughly similar amount, and 2.5 got smaller while 4.5 increased also by a similar amount. But 3.5 remains virtually unchanged in terms of total number and percentage.
I'm a bit dissappointed - this would have been a good opportunity to also 'flatten' the curve a bit, by making 3.5 less in terms of total percentage.
And as it turns out, the sum of 3.5s and 4.0s after the change is actually more than the sum before the change.
I just found this so my interpretation should be checked. But there were only 192 5.5 players registered in the NTRP system, or active ?. That is only four 5.5 players per state on average. In my county area, which is active, most years there are not enough 4.5 players to sustain a USTA 4.5 Adult league. When they have a 4.5 league, it is only a 2 team league. I believe nearby counties might have some 4.5 leagues.
I guess that 5.5 & 6.0 players play mostly in USTA 'Open' tournaments. ?
Maybe someone has some more recent data on the NTRP distribution?
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caugas
Semi-Pro
Maximagq
Banned
Yeah, I used to get coached from around 11-13 by this local HS kid, then by a female player from Cal State LA from 13-15. From 16-18, it was several coaches: Matt Kecki from USC, Andre Feliz from SDSU, Evan Jurgensen from UCSB, Michael Tang from USC, and this one guy who lives near the park I played at that used to coach San Marino HS.
caugas
Semi-Pro
tennisfreak
Semi-Pro
To answer op, I would search for threads about Tony Larson. He used to post at TT regularly. He also started tennis late, I believe, although not as late as you.
I think he got close to getting an ATP point (although I might be wrong). He was playing at a 5.5 to 6.0 level. You can read about the kind of dedication it takes to reach that level if you start late at tennis.
I'd say 5.0 is achievable, and anything above that will be up to your talent level.
I think he got close to getting an ATP point (although I might be wrong). He was playing at a 5.5 to 6.0 level. You can read about the kind of dedication it takes to reach that level if you start late at tennis.
I'd say 5.0 is achievable, and anything above that will be up to your talent level.
WildVolley
Legend
From what I recall from his posts, Larson was a good high school player and an excellent college player with some wins over good Division 1 players. Later he was a teaching pro.
He's a good example of what it takes to get to 6.0, but he also shows why the OP's goal would be extremely unlikely.
tennisfreak
Semi-Pro
6.0 is probably outside of the realm of possibility. I would say that 5.5 is more doable. At 17 years old, he would have to really dedicate himself, but he is still young enough that I would say he could probably reach the 5.5 level in about 10 years, if he was sufficiently talented enough.
5.0 is the more realistic goal and something I believe can be achieved with moderate amounts of dedication and talent.
If you work hard for about 8-10 years, you could become an open level player say in the 5.0 to 5.5 range.
I would suggest you join hi-school team, try to get on a college team if possible and take private lessons and group lessons regularly. Also, you might want to consider a week per year in a tennis camp where you do 3+ hours per day.
To me 6.0 is very unlikely as this is a very high level.
I would suggest you join hi-school team, try to get on a college team if possible and take private lessons and group lessons regularly. Also, you might want to consider a week per year in a tennis camp where you do 3+ hours per day.
To me 6.0 is very unlikely as this is a very high level.
I also started playing a lot when I was 17 and if I knew back then what I know now I like to think I could have reached 6.0 by maybe 25 or so.
Basically, 5.5 is #1 or #2 at a midpack D1 team or #3-6 at a highly ranked D1 team. And 6.0 is nationally ranked D1 player who are competitive at the future tournaments. Another way to gauge your tennis level is by TRN rating. 5.5 is 4,5 star and some bluechips and 6.0 is some top bluechips. Also if you can go a couple rounds at a future tournament you are around 5.5 and if you can win a future tournament you are around 6.0.
5.5 or 6.0 are a hell of a talent and years of dedicated training with solid instructions. Needs to be super-competitive and able to quickly find ways to win matches. They are local superstars in tennis.
If you are one of those crazy dudes who get things done like no other you might be able to pull it off.
Basically, 5.5 is #1 or #2 at a midpack D1 team or #3-6 at a highly ranked D1 team. And 6.0 is nationally ranked D1 player who are competitive at the future tournaments. Another way to gauge your tennis level is by TRN rating. 5.5 is 4,5 star and some bluechips and 6.0 is some top bluechips. Also if you can go a couple rounds at a future tournament you are around 5.5 and if you can win a future tournament you are around 6.0.
5.5 or 6.0 are a hell of a talent and years of dedicated training with solid instructions. Needs to be super-competitive and able to quickly find ways to win matches. They are local superstars in tennis.
If you are one of those crazy dudes who get things done like no other you might be able to pull it off.
LuckyR
Legend
Hi, I've recently joined the TW forums because of my new found love for tennis
Yes, it is too late. In order to get to 5.5 you'd have to pass up players with way more experience than you, are better athletes than you and have more dedication than you have shown so far for this sport.
Why don't you walk before you fly? Shoot for 4.0 if/when you make it, 4.5 will be another level's worth of effort away for you. By that time, you will be supporting yourself financially for sure and who knows what sort of career, family etc distractions you'll have, this sort of thing is the biggest level advancement killer. That's why those who attain high levels before starting college, career, family are at a huge advantage over those who take the sport up later in lafe.
Yes. It would be depressing not to try anything for the next 60 years of your life if u didnt start in the first 20 years of your life.
corbind
Professional
This is not any assessment of you as a person rather a generalization. Possible? Sure. Realistic? Uh, no. Statistically the odds of anyone achieving 5.5 is ridiculously small. The vast majority of those who do start before their teens. Factor in you're 17 is cuts your odds significantly of already small odds.
On the positive side, if you (or anyone) make 5.0 any time in your life you'll be pretty amazing. That's a damn good tennis player. Aim for that my friend.
On the positive side, if you (or anyone) make 5.0 any time in your life you'll be pretty amazing. That's a damn good tennis player. Aim for that my friend.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Thanks for the advice, it was very informative! You quite literally everything in such beautiful detail!
Are you still looking for tennis tips?
Thought that I might mention a couple of the differences in footwork between tennis and badminton. Tennis players use a pronounced hop for their split-step as the opponent is hitting the ball. The timing movement for badminton players is often a subtler. Some do not actually hop and the opponent is hitting. Instead, they might suddenly lower their COG (center of gravity) a bit by bending their knees a bit more as the opponent strikes the shuttle. This move or the split-step hop serves to sync the player to the opponent's shot and help makes their next step/move quicker.
Tennis players might initially take large, fast steps to get to a ball that is not close to them. However, as they get closer to the intercept location, they will often take smaller adjustment steps to ensure that they are at an optimal position to strike the ball. Badminton players sometimes take short or medium quick steps initially and then take a large step as their last step to play the shuttle. You see this particularly with singles players or with net players in doubles. Also used for movements to the side when stretched wide.
Shots taken at the net in badminton are almost always with the racket foot forward -- not unlike a fencing move. Shots taken at the net in tennis are a bit different. One foot is usually forward for forehand shots while the other foot is usually forward for backhand shots.
It's probably too late. People don't want to hear but virtually all pro level players started playing when they were young. Sometimes they didn't commit to tennis as their only sport but I have heard of anyone picking up tennis after their childhood and getting that good.
Like I said before - its not figure skatig. Its not about looking like you play. Being a 6.0 means you can beat everyone - basically. The only people you can't are other pros.
You might as well ask if you can become a world class downhill skier after you just learned to ski the bunnyhill at a small resort.
Like I said before - its not figure skatig. Its not about looking like you play. Being a 6.0 means you can beat everyone - basically. The only people you can't are other pros.
You might as well ask if you can become a world class downhill skier after you just learned to ski the bunnyhill at a small resort.
goran_ace
Hall of Fame
^^^ Haha. I like that.
I really don't understand the obsession with really high NTRP ratings on here. The NTRP scale goes from absolute beginner on one end to the ATP tour on the other. Do people compare their play in a men's 30-and-up after work basketball league to LeBron James and the NBA? (Ok, some guys actually do. Don't be "that guy.")
4.5/5.0 is actually really good tennis. You'll find a fair share of former high school stars and former college players there - and you'll actually find some of these guys at your club whereas legit 5.5/6.0 players are like unicorns. Your area might not even have enough players to support a 5.0 division.
4.0 is probably the sweet spot for adult tennis. You're good enough where you're not going to be consumed by errors so matchplay is interesting. Also, there's a lot more opportunity to play. You meet a lot of people and get to play against all sorts of styles.
This. FWIW 3.5 would offer some of the same advantages but its not that fun to play at the level. Alot of people wash out and just give up tennis for this reason. Without some degree of skill its not that fun a sport.
In my experience adult tennis progression needs significant financial outlays beyond the early half level or whole level.
Thus if you start playing tennis at 2.5 - and just play casually you will only reach the 3.0 league level. This is actually a big step forward for alot of players. Because league 3.0 have quite a few 3.5 sandbagger types.
If you want to really get up to say 4.0 - 4.5 - 5.0 being a very good recreational player you need to pony up - hire a coach and get lessons at least once a week.
You then need to find regular hitting partners and hit with them several times a week - for more then an hour. You also need regular match play (this should be the least often - as competitive play can hurt your game early on).
And then you need to consider fitness and diet - for weaker player then will want to lift and sometimes stretch. Stronger players might want to work on their speed and quickness in additional to keeping up with their regular fitness program. Some players might even want work on their endurance. All tennis players will want to keep excess weigh off.
Again I'd compare this to skiing. If you go up the mountain and just ski 20x a year you will be able to ski well - and do most trails with minimal training. But if you want become a racer - or do stunts and stuff it takes a much greater effort.
the jump from 4.0 - 5.0 is harder then 2.5 - 3.5 - as it takes real dedication and effort. For this reason most club player are at MOST 3.5. Because so many players do not play in leagues the real level is likely a little lower..then 3.5. This is not coincidentally pretty close to the level you will get just by hacking around. What's going on with like 90% of these threads is that people assume because of their early quick progression that they will be able to maintain that kind of improvement.
But you do not. Its like newbie lifter gains.. You will become rapidly stronger if your first year of serious weight training - but each year after that you will gain less and less.
LoboLaw1984
Rookie
5.5 - 6.0 is an extremely high level of tennis. Still, aim as high as you can and get match experience.
The forehand
Rookie
My old coach started playing at age 16 and well he was already very sporty so within a year he was county champion for singles and doubles. He now coaches a very high level of juniors
The forehand
Rookie
Also a great idea to train yourself is to buy a ball hopper/basket and just ask someone to feed balls. You should of course first have a coach to teach you the right technique and just keep on working on the shots.
goober
Legend
No he played multiple sports as a kid but started tennis at a young age. According to his Bio he won four consecutive sectional titles and three county tennis titles in high school. That sounds like he was a 5.0+ player already coming out of high school. He was good enough though in basketball to get a full scholly to a Marist which is a low level D1 school.
His videos from 2011 are at least 4.5 ... he would have rolled any non-sandbagging 4.0 back then.
