Do you think Nadal is in a slight decline??

D

dgold44

G.O.A.T.
I admit I have not watched much tennis this year but I know he was injured.
I also know that Djoker played amazing today as I watched the match.

Nadal has had many injuries and his rough style does not help.

Do u think he bounce back to win more slams or continue to decline.:confused::confused:

Who is really better than Nadal besides the Joker.
I am not seeing a decline but maybe you are ??
 
S

spinovic

Hall of Fame
You said it yourself in the first sentence. You haven't watched much tennis this year. So, it makes sense that you are not seeing the decline.:)
 
chjtennis

chjtennis

G.O.A.T.
Let's be kind to OP and explain friendly. He said he hasn't watched much tennis recently. ;)

Nadal already declined visibly in 2014. His form took a dive this year. We only waited a confirmation before saying it out loud, and yesterday's loss was the confirmation. He is 29, so things will not get better for him now. I think he still has a lot left in him, so if he is willing and motivated, he can still be inside top 10 or even top 5 for a couple more years. However, you would be delusional if you think Rafa can regain his old dominant form on clay or anywhere else again. He will still be a force, but not like what he once was.
 
mad dog1

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
dgold44 said:
I admit I have not watched much tennis this year but I know he was injured.
I also know that Djoker played amazing today as I watched the match.

Nadal has had many injuries and his rough style does not help.

Do u think he bounce back to win more slams or continue to decline.:confused::confused:

Who is really better than Nadal besides the Joker.
I am not seeing a decline but maybe you are ??
Click to expand...

blind much? :shock:
 
H

helterskelter

G.O.A.T.
chjtennis said:
He is 29, so things will not get better for him now.
Click to expand...

He won't be dominant like he used to be, sure. But they won't get better for him? 29 isn't that old these days. He was in the younger half of the RG quarter-finalists this year.

Put it this way: Serena Williams started even younger than Nadal did. On her 29th birthday, she'd just suffered a serious injury. With the bloodclot, it almost became life threatening. It took her more than six months to return. She was ranked outside the top ten at the time.

Since then, she's won six more Grand Slams and is very likely to make that seven in three days time.

I don't think that Nadal will win another six or seven Slams. But to say that he won't get better again than he is just now is rather bold.
 
C

coupergear

Professional
Here's the thing, his game is predicated on athleticism--speed, endurance, agility. He uses these traits to feature his monster forehand. He runs around the backhand and works the buggy whip. But age and injury takes away the explosiveness, slows the feet, and for Rafa, this guts his game more than other top players.
 
Mr.Lob

Mr.Lob

G.O.A.T.
No. He's lost confidence. You don't go from where he was last year, to where he is this year, without a serious problem. Injury leading to time off, leading to losses, leading to loss of confidence. His skills, speed, endurance is still there. The mind... the mind is gone, no? Ask the question this time next year. If results the same, then yeah, Nadals in decline.
 
C

coupergear

Professional
The other chink in the armor, is his service game. To use the comparison to Serena or RF, about players successful late in their careers
 
D

dgold44

G.O.A.T.
I have not watched much Nadal but I am taking in other factors- like injuries into effect.

MR.Lob is right that we should wait more and see. I think I will know by the US open.

Federer serve is what is keeping him in the the top 5 I agree
 
chjtennis

chjtennis

G.O.A.T.
helterskelter said:
He won't be dominant like he used to be, sure. But they won't get better for him? 29 isn't that old these days. He was in the younger half of the RG quarter-finalists this year.

Put it this way: Serena Williams started even younger than Nadal did. On her 29th birthday, she'd just suffered a serious injury. With the bloodclot, it almost became life threatening. It took her more than six months to return. She was ranked outside the top ten at the time.

Since then, she's won six more Grand Slams and is very likely to make that seven in three days time.

I don't think that Nadal will win another six or seven Slams. But to say that he won't get better again than he is just now is rather bold.
Click to expand...

You can't compare women's game to men's game. Across the different field of sports, we see women competing at high level at old ages more than men in general. We've seen a lot of old ladies doing well in tennis. Also, Federer is still no.2 at 34 but his contemporaries like Safin, Ferrero and Roddick have all been retired many years. I think Nadal is an old 29 whereas Djokovic and Murray are relatively younger 28 compared to Rafa. Just simply because of his longer stay at high level hence higher mileage.
 
mad dog1

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
Mr.Lob said:
No. He's lost confidence. You don't go from where he was last year, to where he is this year, without a serious problem. Injury leading to time off, leading to losses, leading to loss of confidence. His skills, speed, endurance is still there. The mind... the mind is gone, no? Ask the question this time next year. If results the same, then yeah, Nadals in decline.
Click to expand...

his skills and endurance are still there. his speed is compromised. the reason why he's coughing up way more short balls than before is because he's getting to the ball a split second later so he's not able to hit it as deep. he's always been a scrambler, but in the past he'd scramble and come up w/ an awesome shot (winner) because he was able to get to the ball and be in a position to still hit an offensive shot. now he's scrambling but he's clearly out of position when he gets to the ball so he either hits it out or dumps in into the net or is so off balance that he can't recover for the next shot.
 
D

dgold44

G.O.A.T.
I always wanted to see Nadal win a second Aussie open: he would have a career double grand slam, but I just do not see that ever happening unless DJokovic is injured.
 
D

dgold44

G.O.A.T.
mad, even a 5-10 percent drop in speed can dramatically affect a top player like Nadal.
Interesting point.
 
mad dog1

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
dgold44 said:
I have not watched much Nadal but I am taking in other factors- like injuries into effect.

MR.Lob is right that we should wait more and see. I think I will know by the US open.

Federer serve is what is keeping him in the the top 5 I agree
Click to expand...

i can help save you some time. he just went through the entire clay season and failed to win a title for the first time in the past 7 yrs or something like that. and clay is his best surface.
 
C

coupergear

Professional
...Serena and RF have huge serves. This yields free points and takes the pressure off an aging body. Nadal can't rely on a big serve, never has needed to. Look at Agassi's comeback years ago. Yes, he started working out, but let's face it, even in the prime of his life with Gil at the helm, he was nothing near the athlete of Nadal. He was short, stumpy, pigeon-toed. No, the fitness story is overrated--far more importantly, Agassi retooled his serve, made it a weapon rather than a neutral shot. This added pressure on opponents upped his game, put him back on top. Nadal needs to develop a bigger serve if he wants to slow the fade.
 
mad dog1

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
dgold44 said:
mad, even a 5-10 percent drop in speed can dramatically affect a top player like Nadal.
Interesting point.
Click to expand...

how many long 20+ stroke rallies did you see against Djoker today vs in the past? why is this? because after trading 3 or 4 groundies with Novak today, Rafa gradually found himself being pushed more out of position. in other words, he couldn't keep up w/ the pace that Novak was dictating. in past years, you'd never see Rafa getting bullied after trading a few groundies.
 
welcome2petrkordaland

welcome2petrkordaland

Professional
mad dog1 said:
his skills and endurance are still there. his speed is compromised. the reason why he's coughing up way more short balls than before is because he's getting to the ball a split second later so he's not able to hit it as deep. he's always been a scrambler, but in the past he'd scramble and come up w/ an awesome shot (winner) because he was able to get to the ball and be in a position to still hit an offensive shot. now he's scrambling but he's clearly out of position when he gets to the ball so he either hits it out or dumps in into the net or is so off balance that he can't recover for the next shot.
Click to expand...

well said although his endurance/stamina have decreased as well IMO
 
chjtennis

chjtennis

G.O.A.T.
coupergear said:
...Serena and RF have huge serves. This yields free points and takes the pressure off an aging body. Nadal can't rely on a big serve, never has needed to. Look at Agassi's comeback years ago. Yes, he started working out, but let's face it, even in the prime of his life with Gil at the helm, he was nothing near the athlete of Nadal. He was short, stumpy, pigeon-toed. No, the fitness story is overrated--far more importantly, Agassi retooled his serve, made it a weapon rather than a neutral shot. This added pressure on opponents upped his game, put him back on top. Nadal needs to develop a bigger serve if he wants to slow the fade.
Click to expand...

It's not just the serves that they have. They both have solid groundies. Sampras had great serves but couldn't compete well past 30. You can't simply attribute their longevity to one aspect of their game.
 
D

Dave1982

Professional
welcome2petrkordaland said:
well said although his endurance/stamina have decreased as well IMO
Click to expand...

Yep agree completely.

There's no doubt Nadal is in a decline, how much so is probably hard to say and only time will tell.
In my opinion he is still capable of winning a slam or two but gone are the days of him dominating the tour, particularly the clay season. I still very much expect him to contend and due to there being a heap of points available to him post Wimbledon I still consider him a very realistic chance of finishing the year inside the top 5.

A few have mentioned it previously but his style of play is very demanding and this (potentially amongst other things) has led to him suffering an increased number of injuries. He's done a fantastic job in rebounding from many of these over the years however with each new injury and each year that passes they become more and more difficult to rebound from.
 
mad dog1

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
welcome2petrkordaland said:
well said although his endurance/stamina have decreased as well IMO
Click to expand...

i think the endurance is still there, but honestly hard to say with any level of certainty because he's not good enough keep the match tight and extend it to a 3rd or 5th set! i mean he's getting blown off the court with regularity these days. :)
 
mad dog1

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
IMO one very important thing he's lost is flexibility since his back injury at the 2014 AO. anyone who's had a back injury before has probably experienced that the back isn't as limber or flexible after.
 
S

Start da Game

Hall of Fame
he declined on clay long back, like in 2013......but he is still in his latter prime on hardcourts, a couple more years......these days he is a better hardcourter than a clay courter......i said this two years ago as well......
 
Gary Duane

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
Start da Game said:
he declined on clay long back, like in 2013......but he is still in his latter prime on hardcourts, a couple more years......these days he is a better hardcourter than a clay courter......i said this two years ago as well......
Click to expand...
That's hard to support with a 250 win on clay and an M1000 final on clay, nothing on HCs so far.
 
S

Start da Game

Hall of Fame
mad dog1 said:
IMO one very important thing he's lost is flexibility since his back injury at the 2014 AO. anyone who's had a back injury before has probably experienced that the back isn't as limber or flexible after.
Click to expand...

you might be right......AO 2014 was really the most painful of all his slam losses.......it was his slam entirely to only be snatched away by back pain......an easy draw slam which he deserved thoroughly after his heroic spartanitics in 2013......since that loss he's not been the same player with the exception of RG 2014 final which he won purely on his aura......
 
Sentinel

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
stringertom said:
Slight decline? Is that how you would describe the way down from Mt. Everest??? If so, I would agree.
Click to expand...


Nadal's decline will only be official when he reaches #20 or so, and starts getting out in early rounds of all slams and Masters.

Until then all i can say is that everyone has figured him out now, and all losses damage and take away from his legacy :D His nine clay slams are in question now. :twisted:
 
J

jg153040

G.O.A.T.
I don't think that the decline is that big. But even a slight decline can make a huge difference at the pro level. Even 5% can mean the difference between nr.1 and nr.10. 5% is relatively huge, especially if it's on big points.
 
Gary Duane

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
Start da Game said:
i never buy stats, i buy my own observations......he is still a great player on hardcourts, you will see later in the season once he warms up to hardcourts......
Click to expand...
No one is great on HCs standing as far back as he is returning. He moved up in 2013. Don't expect that this year. As for your observations, if you can't back it up with logic and stats it is about as relevant as the astrology threads.
 
edmondsm

edmondsm

Legend
Nadal has hit the wall that he was always destined to hit. He is the tennis equivalent of the philosophy that it is "better to burn out then to fade away". His success depends on explosiveness and huge athletic ability. These two things disappear very quickly when you pass your physical prime.

Edit: Do not count him out of Wimbledon though.
 
Gary Duane

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
edmondsm said:
Nadal has hit the wall that he was always destined to hit. He is the tennis equivalent of the philosophy that it is "better to burn out then to fade away". His success depends on explosiveness and huge athletic ability. These two things disappear very quickly when you pass your physical prime.

Edit: Do not count him out of Wimbledon though.
Click to expand...
I will if he does not do well on grass before W. He won't get better at W.
 
D

dgold44

G.O.A.T.
I would still be very happy to take NAdal's current talent so that I can get the hell out of playing mens 4.0

I just turned 39 and used to win a lot of matches on speed. I noticed that I am a good 15 percent slower and losing more.

How amazing would a Joker GRand Slam be. That would be utterly amazing to see. He has 4 loses in US open finals through.
 
J

jg153040

G.O.A.T.
I will like to add, that Rafa's mentality still didn't seem to decline.

He still fights and he saved like eight set points?

The decline is physical, because Rafa is still mentally strong.
 
T

thomasferrett

Hall of Fame
Start da Game said:
you might be right......AO 2014 was really the most painful of all his slam losses.......it was his slam entirely to only be snatched away by back pain......an easy draw slam which he deserved thoroughly after his heroic spartanitics in 2013......since that loss he's not been the same player with the exception of RG 2014 final which he won purely on his aura......
Click to expand...

Snatched away by Wawrinka, not by back pain - don't you ever forget
 
L

LETitBE

Hall of Fame
Djokovic ripped what little of nadals knakkas were left clean off yesterday and probably ate them with a nice Chianti.Perhaps some tabasco sauce.
 
NatF

NatF

Bionic Poster
The decline is very real at this point and profound. Whether it's permanent or not is another matter.
 
Minion

Minion

Hall of Fame
I only saw the highlights - I honestly expected a closer match. I thought Nadal would at least grab a set or two, but Djoko took no chances, gave him nothing. Maybe if Nadal managed to take that first set, he could've had a little more confidence?
 
L

LETitBE

Hall of Fame
I'd like to know how ANYONE in their right mind would pick Nadal to win this match,it's incredible!The so called experts on here who apparently know tennis? Its unreal.
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Nadal has just dropped to no.10 and convincingly lost at RG for the first time in 11 years. Wake up people, this is not a slight decline. He is worse than Federer in 2013 at the moment.
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
As for HC, well let's see... How is he going to do better on HC at this points when even on slower clay he still got bullied. With his defence and confidence shut down, I doubt on HC he is going to get any better, especially considering the fact that the faster HC are coming.

He hasn't even made a HC SF this year. In which way he is a better HC player now?
 
MichaelNadal

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
jg153040 said:
I will like to add, that Rafa's mentality still didn't seem to decline.

He still fights and he saved like eight set points?

The decline is physical, because Rafa is still mentally strong.
Click to expand...

I was proud of the way he saved all those SP's. Credit to Novak for making him work so hard, because Nadal was a hair away from that set, and the match could have turned out differently.
 
NatF

NatF

Bionic Poster
Guy with an over 90% win/loss record on clay - who's gone nigh undefeated on the surface more often than not for the last 10 years, fails to win any European warm up events and goes down in straight sets in the QF of the FO. Slight decline bro...
 
Steve0904

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
helterskelter said:
He won't be dominant like he used to be, sure. But they won't get better for him? 29 isn't that old these days. He was in the younger half of the RG quarter-finalists this year.

Put it this way: Serena Williams started even younger than Nadal did. On her 29th birthday, she'd just suffered a serious injury. With the bloodclot, it almost became life threatening. It took her more than six months to return. She was ranked outside the top ten at the time.

Since then, she's won six more Grand Slams and is very likely to make that seven in three days time.

I don't think that Nadal will win another six or seven Slams. But to say that he won't get better again than he is just now is rather bold.
Click to expand...

It's the miles and the style of play more than the age. They're finally catching up to him.
 
NatF

NatF

Bionic Poster
It will be interesting to see if those that doubt Federer's decline do the same regarding Nadal...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

S
At what age do you think Rafa and Djoker could decline?
Replies
38
Views
3K
cc0509
cc0509
tennis_hack
  • Poll
Is Andy Murray in pemanent decline after his back surgery?
Replies
10
Views
2K
Steve0904
Steve0904
bjsnider
Progressive Decline in Nadal's Hold Game
Replies
5
Views
743
Bender
Bender
D
Nadal is leaving a massive void in game and fun
2 3
Replies
105
Views
6K
Murrayjuannow
M
J
The acid test for Nadal is the French Open (Don't hammer those nails in just yet)
Replies
29
Views
2K
spinovic
S
Top