Do Fed's volleys lack "stick"/"sting"?

F

Fedfan34

Guest
Armchair critique and proud, but watching Mahut volley against Nadal, whatever faults his net game may have, he hits the volley with a firmness that I don't see in Federer's. This is why (IMO) Fed often misses volleys on shots hit with a lot of pace or when he's forced to volley up and move at the same time. Rodge has great slice/placement/soft touch on his volleys but the amount of times where I see him hit a nice, crisp stab volley are few and far between.

Agree/disagree/am I nuts/general thoughts?
 
A

ANDYbhGENIUS

Professional
Fedfan34 said:
Armchair critique and proud, but watching Mahut volley against Nadal, whatever faults his net game may have, he hits the volley with a firmness that I don't see in Federer's. This is why (IMO) Fed often misses volleys on shots hit with a lot of pace or when he's forced to volley up and move at the same time. Rodge has great slice/placement/soft touch on his volleys but the amount of times where I see him hit a nice, crisp stab volley are few and far between.

Agree/disagree/am I nuts/general thoughts?
Click to expand...

Fed "tries" to control the volley too much imo, and loses the natural volley motion where he just walks through the volley with a slight punch... His legwork and upper body sorta put the breaks on, where Mahut clearly on occasion walked/ran right through it.

But it fluctuates, and obviously is a confidence thing, but to see him really nail that hip/navel high volley on a paced return would be awesome!
 
D

Deleted member 742196

Guest
Totally agree. I'm a Yuge Fed fan but even I can see his stick/jab volley isn't in the playbook - he aims to finish a net point with a winner and not work it for a soft opening.

That may be his aggressive mindset or the fact he's really a baseliner - I'm with you though, while Fed is flashy he isn't the crispest volleyer.
 
toby55555

toby55555

Hall of Fame
Typical of vets tennis, older players use the soft angled volleys as their opponents no longer have the legs to run them down. Fed is gearing up for the Masters series.
 
Tennease

Tennease

Legend
He can do some crisp volleys and he knows how to do crisp volleys, but yes he often under slice the volleys a lot as he likes to feel the balls. He also uses too much wrist movements. He needs to use a firmer wrist to get crisper volleys.
 
kramer woodie

kramer woodie

Professional
Once a person gets wiser, especially a tennis player, they only use enough pace to win the point with controlled placement. Leave it to the
young bulls that want to be powerful on every stroke and take far too many chances leading to un-forced errors. High percentage tennis, also,
wears down your opponent. Why try to run down a hard hit winning volley? You don't, you stop in your tracks and concede the point. However,
take soft hit short volleys, the opponent is likely to run themselves to death trying to return it. Wearing them down leads to easier won points
later in the match.

Aloha
 
K

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
His volleys have been nowhere near as good as they were in 2014-2016AO.

They're still decent but I've seen him miss a few routine finesse drop volleys at the net. But then again maybe he made it look easy in the past.
 
BeatlesFan

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
Fed has never been a great volleyer. He was good at the net in 2000-2003 but never remotely in the league of Mac, Edberg, Pete or Boris. Then he completely stopped coming forward until Edberg hit the scene. He lacks anticipation (which is crazy considering his insane talent), and his technique on the FH volley has always been lacking. This year he also looks like he's uncomfortable at the net and he's botched some routine volleys in IW and Miami.
 
Steve0904

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
I wouldn't say his volleys lack stick, but that he's too lackadaisical sometimes at net, He can screw up the easiest volleys which is frustrating, but then he can hit one that makes your jaw drop. That said, Mahut is not Mr. Master Volleyer either. He missed several pretty easy ones yesterday, and I'd say Federer is a better volleyer than him.
 
NatF

NatF

Bionic Poster
Federer's arrogance is his undoing. He gets cocky and misses easy volleys or tries to wow the crowd with inhuman touch. His technique is generally good, he has fantastic reflexes and hands. He's a very good volleyer, in terms of pure hands he's tier 1.
 
B

big ted

Legend
i agree with you rogers volleys look like they lack punch. i brought up in another thread that i thought even rafa might have better volleys than roger and i was attacked unmercifully
 
Gazelle

Gazelle

G.O.A.T.
McErnoe's volleys weren't textbook either, yet he's considered one of the best net players ever. Fed is amazing at the net, certainly by today's standards.

Mahut who? His game has never impressed me.
 
D

Dolgopolov85

G.O.A.T.
Steve0904 said:
I wouldn't say his volleys lack stick, but that he's too lackadaisical sometimes at net, He can screw up the easiest volleys which is frustrating, but then he can hit one that makes your jaw drop. That said, Mahut is not Mr. Master Volleyer either. He missed several pretty easy ones yesterday, and I'd say Federer is a better volleyer than him.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't think Fed is unable to make sharp volleys but he just likes to get cute or showboat and ends up fluffing straightforward volleys at times.
 
M

merwy

G.O.A.T.
"Mahut, whatever faults his net game may have..."
The guy is one of the best doubles players in the world. Believe me, his volleys are good. That immediately answers your question as to why his volleys may be more effective than Roger's. Doubles player are amazing at just blocking volleys at a high pace and still hitting it cleanly. That basically all they train and do in a match. Fed is still one of the best volleyer in the singles game so his net game is definitely the last part I would ever criticize him on.
 
C

captainbryce

Hall of Fame
Fedfan34 said:
Armchair critique and proud, but watching Mahut volley against Nadal, whatever faults his net game may have, he hits the volley with a firmness that I don't see in Federer's. This is why (IMO) Fed often misses volleys on shots hit with a lot of pace or when he's forced to volley up and move at the same time. Rodge has great slice/placement/soft touch on his volleys but the amount of times where I see him hit a nice, crisp stab volley are few and far between.

Agree/disagree/am I nuts/general thoughts?
Click to expand...
I don't think you're nuts, but I do disagree slightly for a number of reasons. For one thing, I have seen Federer hit stab volleys with pace before very effectively. Its not something he regularly does, but he is capable of doing it. But the fact is, he's a different kind of volleyer than say Sampras, who was known to power his way to the net and hit a volley winner off the second or third shot. Mahut has the same mindset as Sampras (only he's not as good). Federer rarely serves and volleys, but rather takes the ball early and hits sharply angled approach shots to make his way to the net. His athleticism is also different from a Sampras, who was more explosive front to back, and up and down. Federer is more graceful moving diagonally, side to side, and in weaving his way forward. So the position he's often in when he hits a volley is different.

Also, something that often gets lost when discussing the quality of volleys among different players is the quality of passing shots they face respectfully. And that is largely influenced by the quality and timeliness of the approach shots by the volleyer. When Sampras played Agassi, one of 4 things was going to happen on his service games. Either Sampras was going to hit an ace, Agassi was going to hit a return winner, Sampras was going to hit a good enough serve to elicit a weak return, or Agassi would hit a good enough return to make the rally neutral. Only the third scenario would put Sampras in a position to hit a volley, and the best volley to hit in that scenario would be a hard, stick volley winner.

Federer more often than not will hit a soft volley (either sliced, angles, or drop volley) because the shots that he chooses to come in on necessitate that type of volley. When Federer is coming to net (usually on his own terms) it's usually not immediately after the serve. He's usually very strategic about where he places the volley. When Sampras came to net, the point was going to end one way or the other. Federer doesn't need to hit firm stab volleys with pace in order to end the point because his placement is so good. He is also willing to restart the point and get back into the rally in case the net approach fails. Sampras was not willing to do that. That doesn't mean Federer isn't as good of a volleyer, it's means he has a different mindset when he's at the net.
 
Last edited:
K

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
BeatlesFan said:
Fed has never been a great volleyer. He was good at the net in 2000-2003 but never remotely in the league of Mac, Edberg, Pete or Boris. Then he completely stopped coming forward until Edberg hit the scene. He lacks anticipation (which is crazy considering his insane talent), and his technique on the FH volley has always been lacking. This year he also looks like he's uncomfortable at the net and he's botched some routine volleys in IW and Miami.
Click to expand...

 
S

scotus

G.O.A.T.
BeatlesFan said:
Fed has never been a great volleyer. He was good at the net in 2000-2003 but never remotely in the league of Mac, Edberg, Pete or Boris. Then he completely stopped coming forward until Edberg hit the scene. He lacks anticipation (which is crazy considering his insane talent), and his technique on the FH volley has always been lacking. This year he also looks like he's uncomfortable at the net and he's botched some routine volleys in IW and Miami.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

The great volleyers like Edberg have an insane level of anticipation in that they seem to know where the opponent will hit next and are already moving in that direction. Fed, on the other hand, is often caught flat-footed.

Of course, with his immense talent, Fed could have become a great volleyer if he had played in the 80's and 90's. But he had largely abandoned the net game for a long long time until he hired Edberg.
 
T

TennisCJC

Legend
I don't see any lack of stick in Roger's volleys. Of all the top singles guys, Roger is the best at net - that includes all types of volleys, 1/2 volleys and overheads. I think Nadal is next best, and Murray and Djokovic are big step back from there.
 
lidoazndiabloboi

lidoazndiabloboi

Hall of Fame
I always felt like Fed took his racket up and back too far on the backhand volley. Granted, he's using the same motion has his slice, but this is something I would never teach someone to do. Fed makes it look easy because of his immense talent. But for us mere mortals, it would be a big technical flaw.
 
A

Aretium

Hall of Fame
wtf am i reading here. Amateurs telling the goat he cant volley. Wtf, there is nothing wrong with his volley. He is top 5 on the tour. None of you have a fking clue sorry lol.
 
F

Fedfan34

Guest
captainbryce said:
I don't think you're nuts, but I do disagree slightly for a number of reasons. For one thing, I have seen Federer hit stab volleys with pace before very effectively. Its not something he regularly does, but he is capable of doing it. But the fact is, he's a different kind of volleyer than say Sampras, who was known to power his way to the net and hit a volley winner off the second or third shot. Mahut has the same mindset as Sampras (only he's not as good). Federer rarely serves and volleys, but rather takes the ball early and hits sharply angled approach shots to make his way to the net. His athleticism is also different from a Sampras, who was more explosive front to back, and up and down. Federer is more graceful moving diagonally, side to side, and in weaving his way forward. So the position he's often in when he hits a volley is different.

Also, something that often gets lost when discussing the quality of volleys among different players is the quality of passing shots they face respectfully. And that is largely influenced by the quality and timeliness of the approach shots by the volleyer. When Sampras played Agassi, one of 4 things was going to happen on his service games. Either he was going to hit an ace, he was going to hit a good enough serve to elicit a weak return, Agassi was going to hit a return winner, or Agassi would hit a good enough return to make the rally neutral. Only the third scenario would put Sampras in a position to hit a volley, and the best volley to hit in that scenario would be a hard, stick volley winner.

Federer more often than not will hit a soft volley (either sliced, angles, or drop volley) because the shots that he chooses to come in on necessitate that type of volley. When Federer is coming to net (usually on his own terms) it's usually not immediately after the serve. He's usually very strategic about where he places the volley. When Sampras came to net, the point was going to end one way or the other. Federer doesn't need to hit firm stab volleys with pace in order to end the point because his placement is so good. He is also willing to restart the point and get back into the rally in case the net approach fails. Sampras was not willing to do that. That doesn't mean Federer isn't as good of a volleyer, it's means he has a different mindset when he's at the net.
Click to expand...
Really good analysis. I shall let this frothily ferment in the fertile forests of my mind.
 
F

Fedfan34

Guest
captainbryce said:
I don't think you're nuts, but I do disagree slightly for a number of reasons. For one thing, I have seen Federer hit stab volleys with pace before very effectively. Its not something he regularly does, but he is capable of doing it. But the fact is, he's a different kind of volleyer than say Sampras, who was known to power his way to the net and hit a volley winner off the second or third shot. Mahut has the same mindset as Sampras (only he's not as good). Federer rarely serves and volleys, but rather takes the ball early and hits sharply angled approach shots to make his way to the net. His athleticism is also different from a Sampras, who was more explosive front to back, and up and down. Federer is more graceful moving diagonally, side to side, and in weaving his way forward. So the position he's often in when he hits a volley is different.

Also, something that often gets lost when discussing the quality of volleys among different players is the quality of passing shots they face respectfully. And that is largely influenced by the quality and timeliness of the approach shots by the volleyer. When Sampras played Agassi, one of 4 things was going to happen on his service games. Either Sampras was going to hit an ace, Agassi was going to hit a return winner, Sampras was going to hit a good enough serve to elicit a weak return, or Agassi would hit a good enough return to make the rally neutral. Only the third scenario would put Sampras in a position to hit a volley, and the best volley to hit in that scenario would be a hard, stick volley winner.

Federer more often than not will hit a soft volley (either sliced, angles, or drop volley) because the shots that he chooses to come in on necessitate that type of volley. When Federer is coming to net (usually on his own terms) it's usually not immediately after the serve. He's usually very strategic about where he places the volley. When Sampras came to net, the point was going to end one way or the other. Federer doesn't need to hit firm stab volleys with pace in order to end the point because his placement is so good. He is also willing to restart the point and get back into the rally in case the net approach fails. Sampras was not willing to do that. That doesn't mean Federer isn't as good of a volleyer, it's means he has a different mindset when he's at the net.
Click to expand...
Two things:

Do you think the type of racket has anything to do with this? Rodge using the 97 now, and 90 for most of his career. Sampras used the 85, slighter heavier and smaller stick maybe gave a bit more punch? I also wonder if Federer's famed wrist flexibility means its more natural for him to be looser and more of a "limpinhitter" (God forgive me) which adversely affects him on the volley?
 
Fedeonic

Fedeonic

Hall of Fame
big ted said:
agree with you rogers volleys look like they lack punch. i brought up in another thread that i thought even rafa might have better volleys than roger and i was attacked unmercifully
Click to expand...
If Federer doesn't have good "punch volleys", then Nadal is even worse at that, welp, worse overall in volleys.
Federer doesn't hit too many punch volleys, he often plays sliced volleys and/or short-angled volleys, but saying that he doesn't possess good punch volleys it's because his great 1st volley often gives him an easy 2nd volley.
 
T

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
90's Clay said:
I thought Fed deserved to be ranked among the elite Rafter, Sampras, Mac, Edberg at the net?? :rolleyes:o_Oo_O
Click to expand...
It's hard to compare and determine who's a better/greater net play. Quality volley is more difficult because today players hit more pace, spin and sharp angle than the players in the 90s and before. The only way to know is if Rafter, Sampras, Mac, Edberg volley are tested against today's standard. But no one knows so all we have left is to speculate.:cool:
 
F

Fedfan34

Guest
90's Clay said:
No he doesn't deserve to be anywhere mentioned in that group. Hes clearly a level or two below
Click to expand...
I agree.
I'd say if he grew up in the 70s he could have been a great 80s era serve and volleyer, the type that tough volleys for a living. I can see him doing well in the 90s too, since a good serve guaranteed an easy volley in those days.
 
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