Gut/ZX Thread

Outliar · Aug 20, 2017

So I know they've been a ton of threads out there on Gut/Poly, mainly which is the best Poly as a cross against the Gut, and similarly there have been many threads on Kevlar/ZX and ZX as a cross however I havent come across a main Gut/ZX thread besides a few posts here and there and ChicagoJack's recommendation on it.

A few questions for starters:

1. Can anyone who has used Gut/ZX talk about how it plays? I have tried Kevlar/ZX and found it played pretty well but I have not ventured and dare not venture on the extreme differential that some have used.

2. What does Gut/ZX give that Kevlar/ZX doesnt?

3. Is prestretched Gut/ZX just a superior option than Gut/Poly and Kevlar/Poly?

CopolyX · Aug 20, 2017

No sliver bullet here and you hit the subjective zone.
There are some objective points with strings, TW labs trys to give you some. Like stiffness, tension loss and spin potential.
But I do have to say, going down the natural gut hybrid path is a great to go down.
I am not a kevlar nor a ZX fan, so I will leave that to other.
We do have a good base of users for both, so I bet they will chime in..

For me , anything I pair up with natual gut follow these guideline :
Med to Soft String (stiffness) -mono core string
Round String
Slick String ( meaning very low string to string COF - additives for low friction - slippery)

Reason:
To Win
First, finding the best stringbed for my game.
Optimizing all the attributes of each string by :
trying to achieve the goldilock principal within the stringbed
Outcome:
Great balance of power, control, touch and feel
Good String Durability ( not breaking)
Good Stringbed life expectancy
Good Playability (tension maintenance)
Consistency / Predictability

references
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/stringballfriction.php
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/stringballfriction.php

penguin · Aug 20, 2017

I have a max 200g with a gut zyex hybrid in it.

I think it plays well, but I am not playing very well at the moment and it's not my main racquet so I can't say a lot in great detail. what I can say is that previously my stringer had put rpm in the crosses when I wanted something different and it was unplayable low-powered, even with the gut mains. now that I have swapped the rpm for zyex (just changed the crosses, kept the mains) it plays much better.
I found it unusually difficult to control hard incoming balls- more going long than I would expect. only a prob against hard hitters...

Shroud · Aug 20, 2017

Outliar said:
So I know they've been a ton of threads out there on Gut/Poly, mainly which is the best Poly as a cross against the Gut, and similarly there have been many threads on Kevlar/ZX and ZX as a cross however I havent come across a main Gut/ZX thread besides a few posts here and there and ChicagoJack's recommendation on it.

A few questions for starters:

1. Can anyone who has used Gut/ZX talk about how it plays? I have tried Kevlar/ZX and found it played pretty well but I have not ventured and dare not venture on the extreme differential that some have used.

2. What does Gut/ZX give that Kevlar/ZX doesnt?

3. Is prestretched Gut/ZX just a superior option than Gut/Poly and Kevlar/Poly?

1. Wuss!!

. Gut/zx is pretty awesome if you like softer stringbeds and need some pop from the stringbed. Its pretty spinny too. Though i was doing a 20lb differential. And fwiw todays racquets are pretty tough and fwiw i did a 40 lb differential in a 20 year old profile that would be hard to replace

2.more ball pocketing and "feel". Less directional control and more pop than kev/zx. Lasts less

3.depends on what you like. Kev/zx is better than the gut options you listed at least for me but thats because i need solid and stiff stringbeds and the last thing i want is my stringbed adding power. But i know thats in the vast minority.

Its worth a try for sure and the differential is to make it spinnier so no "its not spinny" comments...

graycrait · Aug 20, 2017

I currently have two back up rackets strung with Luxilon Nat Gut 16L mains x Zyex 17 crosses. One is a Prince Textreme Warrior 100 16x18 and the other is a Prince Classic Graphite 100 16x18. When I go" off the rails" with my poly x poly hybrids in like rackets I rely on the Nat Gut x Zyex to bring my game back, my elbow back or a bit more power.

I've used Nat Gut x Zyex over the last few years. I have only used this in 16x19 and 16x18 patterns. Here are my 3 favorite stringbeds: 1. Tour Bite x Black Magic; 2. Nat Gut x Zyex; 3. Ashaway Kevlar x Zyex. One of these stringbeds will work depending on tension and gauge in 18x20, 18x19, 16x18 or 16x19, from 98-107" racket heads.

I could play forever just using Nat Gut x Zyex at 58/58 in just about any racket regardless of string pattern in a racket weighing between 11.2 - 12.5oz. Pretty remarkable combo.

Outliar · Aug 20, 2017

graycrait said:
I currently have two back up rackets strung with Luxilon Nat Gut 16L mains x Zyex 17 crosses. One is a Prince Textreme Warrior 100 16x18 and the other is a Prince Classic Graphite 100 16x18. When I go" off the rails" with my poly x poly hybrids in like rackets I rely on the Nat Gut x Zyex to bring my game back, my elbow back or a bit more power.

I've used Nat Gut x Zyex over the last few years. I have only used this in 16x19 and 16x18 patterns. Here are my 3 favorite stringbeds: 1. Tour Bite x Black Magic; 2. Nat Gut x Zyex; 3. Ashaway Kevlar x Zyex. One of these stringbeds will work depending on tension and gauge in 18x20, 18x19, 16x18 or 16x19, from 98-107" racket heads.

I could play forever just using Nat Gut x Zyex at 58/58 in just about any racket regardless of string pattern in a racket weighing between 11.2 - 12.5oz. Pretty remarkable combo.

Did you like the Gut/ZX more so than the Kevlar/ZX?

graycrait · Aug 20, 2017

Outliar said:
Did you like the Gut/ZX more so than the Kevlar/ZX?

That is a hard one to answer definitively but at my age (62) weight 180, height 5'11" and current reasonable health playing at 4.0 level I could play with either Kev/Zyex or NatGut/Zyex for the foreseeable future. Ash/kev in the mains gives me more spin but I have to torque/uncoil/swing harder than with Nat Gut in the mains. I hit flatter shots with Nat Gut, which can be good or bad depending on who is on the other side of the net. I have a couple of POG/PCG 107s strung with Ash Kev x Zyex when absolutely everything goes amiss and it often does. Some days I feel like Tarzan and other days like Mr. Bean, but in either case I like hitting tennis balls after a fashion.

When I feel real tall and good looking I want to play with poly/poly or if there is some hot 55-60 yr old babe playing on the court next to me so I can hit that forehand like Jack Sock

ultradr · Aug 21, 2017

I've tested full zx->synthetic gut/zx-> natural gut/zx.

I currently have original vs gut main/zx hybrid on 18x20 bed. Zx is only mildly pre-stretched. 64lbs main, 58 lbs crosses, lockout tension.

First 10 hours, playing characteristics changed rather wildly. First 2 hours, played like full bed gut plus extra spin. Then launch angle lowered from there. Played somewhat like gut/poly hybrid without polystyrene stiffness. Occasional hot response. After 10 hours, it settled.

Definitely more spinning than gut/nylon hybrid. Zx has unique response. It feels like cushy and powerful in normal range but surprisingly low power on deep impact.

It's hard to describe it. Someone said its like "hitting with matress". There's some points in that statement.

I think it compensate well with gut.
I'm going to try much deeper pre-stretch and lower tension next time.

ultradr · Aug 21, 2017

graycrait said:
I currently have two back up rackets strung with Luxilon Nat Gut 16L mains x Zyex 17 crosses. One is a Prince Textreme Warrior 100 16x18 and the other is a Prince Classic Graphite 100 16x18. When I go" off the rails" with my poly x poly hybrids in like rackets I rely on the Nat Gut x Zyex to bring my game back, my elbow back or a bit more power.

I've used Nat Gut x Zyex over the last few years. I have only used this in 16x19 and 16x18 patterns. Here are my 3 favorite stringbeds: 1. Tour Bite x Black Magic; 2. Nat Gut x Zyex; 3. Ashaway Kevlar x Zyex. One of these stringbeds will work depending on tension and gauge in 18x20, 18x19, 16x18 or 16x19, from 98-107" racket heads.

I could play forever just using Nat Gut x Zyex at 58/58 in just about any racket regardless of string pattern in a racket weighing between 11.2 - 12.5oz. Pretty remarkable combo.

May I ask how much pre-stretching you do ? (say 1 foot out of 20 feet?). Any reason you go same tension on main/crosses(constant pull tesion?) ? A lot of people seem to go lower tension on zx...

Shroud · Aug 21, 2017

graycrait said:
That is a hard one to answer definitively but at my age (62) weight 180, height 5'11" and current reasonable health playing at 4.0 level I could play with either Kev/Zyex or NatGut/Zyex for the foreseeable future. Ash/kev in the mains gives me more spin but I have to torque/uncoil/swing harder than with Nat Gut in the mains. I hit flatter shots with Nat Gut, which can be good or bad depending on who is on the other side of the net. I have a couple of POG/PCG 107s strung with Ash Kev x Zyex when absolutely everything goes amiss and it often does. Some days I feel like Tarzan and other days like Mr. Bean, but in either case I like hitting tennis balls after a fashion.

When I feel real tall and good looking I want to play with poly/poly or if there is some hot 55-60 yr old babe playing on the court next to me so I can hit that forehand like Jack Sock

Was with you till the hot 55-60 yr old babe part...

graycrait · Aug 21, 2017

ultradr said:
May I ask how much pre-stretching you do ? (say 1 foot out of 20 feet?). Any reason you go same tension on main/crosses(constant pull tesion?) ? A lot of people seem to go lower tension on zx...

When string Zyex as a cross I get about 2 feet more at the end than when I start using a Neos 1000 lockout. I'm guessing that is like a prestretch. I've done hard manual prestretch of zyex many times but with the extra length I get just stringing the stuff I think it is counterproductive for my use. If it were productive I would string Zyex crosses higher than my mains, esp with Kevlar mains. With gut in the mains I go as I high in the crosses as I can with Zyex because initial tension loss is pretty steep. With Gut x Zyex I dont want a ball launching stringbed.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

ultradr · Aug 22, 2017

graycrait said:
When string Zyex as a cross I get about 2 feet more at the end than when I start using a Neos 1000 lockout. I'm guessing that is like a prestretch. I've done hard manual prestretch of zyex many times but with the extra length I get just stringing the stuff I think it is counterproductive for my use. If it were productive I would string Zyex crosses higher than my mains, esp with Kevlar mains. With gut in the mains I go as I high in the crosses as I can with Zyex because initial tension loss is pretty steep. With Gut x Zyex I dont want a ball launching stringbed.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

I see. Thanks for a reply.

But I would guess constant pull machine would stretch a bit more than a lockout.
Do you intentionally string it slowly?

graycrait · Aug 22, 2017

ultradr said:
I see. Thanks for a reply.

But I would guess constant pull machine would stretch a bit more than a lockout.
Do you intentionally string it slowly?

I do pull tension on Zyex crosses slower than other strings, but only moderately so.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

Outliar · Aug 23, 2017

Judging by the responses in this thread compared to the Gut/Poly thread, I wonder why is it that so many people prefer Gut/Poly over Gut/ZX?

tegg96 · Aug 23, 2017

Outliar said:
Judging by the responses in this thread compared to the Gut/Poly thread, I wonder why is it that so many people prefer Gut/Poly over Gut/ZX?

There are 100s of polys to choose from. Poly is cheaper. Poly provide better spin in the gut/poly hybrid.
ZX is expensive, Harder to obtain, difficult to string.
Benefits over poly include tension maintanace and general longevity of string bed, good power,spin and comfort.

Outliar · Aug 23, 2017

tegg96 said:
There are 100s of polys to choose from. Poly is cheaper. Poly provide better spin in the gut/poly hybrid.
ZX is expensive, Harder to obtain, difficult to string.
Benefits over poly include tension maintanace and general longevity of string bed, good power,spin and comfort.

That is if you get a cheap poly, if I could make a comparison between a popular poly cross which has good maintenance like Max Power, it's only a few dollars cheaper than ZX, I can't imagine the price point being a major sticking point as to why Gut/Poly is so much more popular than Gut/zx.

Maybe you are right and everyone is looking for the most spin friendly string and Gut/Poly seems to produce that, but not for the right reasons I would imagine because of the poly losing tension overtime resulting in the stringbed being spinnier and spinnier.

I suppose the only thing is to try them both out myself.

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tegg96 · Aug 23, 2017

Another reason is that GUT/ZX is practically unknown to pretty much everyone in the tennis world except those who frequent the stringing forum here on TT. Zyex is just not a mainstream string type.
I have used it in my gut hybrids in the past but get better results and now actually am preferring full bed soft polys like Head Hawk Touch. The nice elasticity in these newer polys neagates the hassle and expence of the gut Hybrid.

ultradr · Aug 23, 2017

Outliar said:
Judging by the responses in this thread compared to the Gut/Poly thread, I wonder why is it that so many people prefer Gut/Poly over Gut/ZX?

Poly is a devil.
It lets you win. It's almost cheating against non-poly users.
If my wrist is strong enough, I would use polys.

But I think I'm getting pretty good spins by using Gut/ZX, part of polys' devilish advantage.

tegg96 said:
Another reason is that GUT/ZX is practically unknown to pretty much everyone in the tennis world except those who frequent the stringing forum here on TT. Zyex is just not a mainstream string type.
I have used it in my gut hybrids in the past but get better results and now actually am preferring full bed soft polys like Head Hawk Touch. The nice elasticity in these newer polys neagates the hassle and expence of the gut Hybrid.

Yep, this is big reasons.
Besides small number of users here at talk tennis forum,
I have yet to meet a tennis player in my local who knows about existence of the zyex string.

Shroud · Aug 23, 2017

Outliar said:
Judging by the responses in this thread compared to the Gut/Poly thread, I wonder why is it that so many people prefer Gut/Poly over Gut/ZX?

Sadly no one tries it and those who do probably dont prestretch and complain about too much power

ultradr · Sep 14, 2017

kinda want to revive this thread...

wondering how people experienced ZX over the time. In my case,

1. first 2 hours: sweet, soft and resilient. it's like slippery gut.
2. 3-~20 hours: it feels like stiffened quick and slowly softens over the time.
3. 20+ hours: quite soft and loose.

I don't think i felt this pattern with full bed gut. so i assume this feel changes largely from ZX cross.
the ZX crosses were only mildly pre-stretched. I used 64 lbs for gut main nd 58 lbsZZX crosses (lockout).

How do other ZX users experience feel changes of ZX over time ???

Shroud · Sep 14, 2017

ultradr said:
kinda want to revive this thread...

wondering how people experienced ZX over the time. In my case,

1. first 2 hours: sweet, soft and resilient. it's like slippery gut.
2. 3-~20 hours: it feels like stiffened quick and slowly softens over the time.
3. 20+ hours: quite soft and loose.

I don't think i felt this pattern with full bed gut. so i assume this feel changes largely from ZX cross.
the ZX crosses were only mildly pre-stretched. I used 64 lbs for gut main nd 58 lbsZZX crosses (lockout).

How do other ZX users experience feel changes of ZX over time ???

Been years since i used gut/zx so grain of salt, but it sounds like the gut is notching after 3 hours and it continues and enough tension is lost at some point making it soft

ultradr · Sep 14, 2017

Shroud said:
Been years since i used gut/zx so grain of salt, but it sounds like the gut is notching after 3 hours and it continues and enough tension is lost at some point making it soft

If gut is notching, string bed would feel stiffer?

TennisBoysCousin · Sep 15, 2017

In a 100 Sq inch 16x19 Frame, what tension and gauge would you recommend when paired with a 15L Tonic+ gut? Not sure if I should use thinner or thicker string for longevity and feel.

pennc94 · Sep 29, 2017

ultradr said:
I've tested full zx->synthetic gut/zx-> natural gut/zx.

I currently have original vs gut main/zx hybrid on 18x20 bed. Zx is only mildly pre-stretched. 64lbs main, 58 lbs crosses, lockout tension.

First 10 hours, playing characteristics changed rather wildly. First 2 hours, played like full bed gut plus extra spin. Then launch angle lowered from there. Played somewhat like gut/poly hybrid without polystyrene stiffness. Occasional hot response. After 10 hours, it settled.

Definitely more spinning than gut/nylon hybrid. Zx has unique response. It feels like cushy and powerful in normal range but surprisingly low power on deep impact.

It's hard to describe it. Someone said its like "hitting with matress". There's some points in that statement.

I think it compensate well with gut.
I'm going to try much deeper pre-stretch and lower tension next time.

So did you try gut/ZX with greater prestretch on the ZX? Did you prestretch the gut too?
What is your 18x20 frame?

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Outliar · Sep 29, 2017

I played with Gut/zx today without pre stretch and it felt soft, going to play with it more to see how it settles. Also, the Gut doesnt slide over the ZX all that easily, is it because I strung it at 54/53? Maybe it'll snap back better once the ZX loses tension as it should

ultradr · Sep 29, 2017

pennc94 said:
So did you try gut/ZX with greater prestretch on the ZX? Did you prestretch the gut too?
What is your 18x20 frame?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have Donnay Pro one 18x20 (and its varients).

I have tried mild pre-stretch on ZX but did not see much difference.
I'm going to try deep prestretch on ZX soon. (like permantly stretch 10% of length).

I always do mild prestretch on guts (and use lockout string machine) and I think I get more consistent string bed that way.

ultradr · Sep 29, 2017

Outliar said:
I played with Gut/zx today without pre stretch and it felt soft, going to play with it more to see how it settles. Also, the Gut doesnt slide over the ZX all that easily, is it because I strung it at 54/53? Maybe it'll snap back better once the ZX loses tension as it should

"that easily" meaning compared to polys?
I think it slides much better compared to others, say, synthetic guts.

Outliar · Sep 29, 2017

ultradr said:
"that easily" meaning compared to polys?
I think it slides much better compared to others, say, synthetic guts.

Sorry, I meant it doesnt snapback as well as Kevlar/ZX for example, it does glide as good as any other but the gut just doesnt snap back

ultradr · Sep 30, 2017

Outliar said:
Sorry, I meant it doesnt snapback as well as Kevlar/ZX for example, it does glide as good as any other but the gut just doesnt snap back

Got it. I use 64 lbs on gut mains and 58 lbs on zx crosses (all these are lockout tension, not constant pull).

Gut mains snap back 100% on my set up of 18x20. No need to adjust string whatsoever.

ashridge · Oct 2, 2017

I've been catching up on these Gut/Zyex, Gut/Poly and AshKev/Zyex threads for weeks. My head is absolutely spinning with information, however I gleaned enough solid direction from those threads to start some experiments in motion. Will be testing in my Prince Graphite II Mid Plus w/14x18 string pattern. Last week I ordered some Tonic+ gut, several polys I've read here are good as crosses, some standalone Zyex, standalone 100% Kev, and some Ashaway Crossfire ZX Kev/PTFE x ZX hybrid. I plan to try Gut/Zyex, several different match-up's of Gut/Poly, 100% AshKev x Zyex, and AshKev/PTFE x Zyex. Probably going to take me a year or more to test them all out

My top 3 priorities are, in the following order:

1) Arm comfort (I've been having some elbow and shoulder issues playing with full bed poly in the 50's. Definitely not full-blown TE yet but I don't want it to get there.)

2) Durability

3) Spin

Durability is no good for me if it hurts my arm. Comfort for me is no good if I break the strings in 3 hours. I don't string my racquets and don't have plans to start any time soon, so durability is a definite factor. I'm not the worst kind of string breaker, but I will break a set of synthetic gut in about 3-4 hours, even in a tighter string pattern in my Prince Classic Graphite 100. I think I shouldn't have too much problem generating spin with any of these combos, but I certainly prefer more if that's how it works out with my top 2 criteria. My guess, from everything I've read here, is that the Gut/Zyex hybrid is going to give the most arm comfort, with the Kev/Zyex 2nd, and the Gut/Poly last. I'm guessing durability is probably going to end up being best with the Kev/Zyex, no idea about 2 and 3 for that. I'm looking forward to the testing, and going into it with an open mind.

Deleted member 54265 · Jul 23, 2018

ashridge said:
I've been catching up on these Gut/Zyex, Gut/Poly and AshKev/Zyex threads for weeks. My head is absolutely spinning with information, however I gleaned enough solid direction from those threads to start some experiments in motion. Will be testing in my Prince Graphite II Mid Plus w/14x18 string pattern. Last week I ordered some Tonic+ gut, several polys I've read here are good as crosses, some standalone Zyex, standalone 100% Kev, and some Ashaway Crossfire ZX Kev/PTFE x ZX hybrid. I plan to try Gut/Zyex, several different match-up's of Gut/Poly, 100% AshKev x Zyex, and AshKev/PTFE x Zyex. Probably going to take me a year or more to test them all out

My top 3 priorities are, in the following order:

1) Arm comfort (I've been having some elbow and shoulder issues playing with full bed poly in the 50's. Definitely not full-blown TE yet but I don't want it to get there.)

2) Durability

3) Spin

Durability is no good for me if it hurts my arm. Comfort for me is no good if I break the strings in 3 hours. I don't string my racquets and don't have plans to start any time soon, so durability is a definite factor. I'm not the worst kind of string breaker, but I will break a set of synthetic gut in about 3-4 hours, even in a tighter string pattern in my Prince Classic Graphite 100. I think I shouldn't have too much problem generating spin with any of these combos, but I certainly prefer more if that's how it works out with my top 2 criteria. My guess, from everything I've read here, is that the Gut/Zyex hybrid is going to give the most arm comfort, with the Kev/Zyex 2nd, and the Gut/Poly last. I'm guessing durability is probably going to end up being best with the Kev/Zyex, no idea about 2 and 3 for that. I'm looking forward to the testing, and going into it with an open mind.

Dear ashridge

How was your findings.

I am very interested in trying out gut / zx, what tension would you recommend. How about prestretch, is this nessasary with a constant pull machine with slow pull setting ?

Thanks, Toby

ashridge · Jul 24, 2018

Toby14 said:
Dear ashridge

How was your findings.

I am very interested in trying out gut / zx, what tension would you recommend. How about prestretch, is this nessasary with a constant pull machine with slow pull setting ?

Thanks, Toby

I've tried Gut/Poly and Kevlar/ZX, but never have tried Gut/ZX yet. I love the performance of the Kevlar/ZX but it hurt the heck out of my arm and elbow. Like Gut/Poly also, going to do some more experimenting on that. Still worried with a Gut/ZX hybrid that the ZX will make short work of the Gut mains.

IowaGuy · Jul 24, 2018

ashridge said:
I've tried Gut/Poly and Kevlar/ZX, but never have tried Gut/ZX yet. I love the performance of the Kevlar/ZX but it hurt the heck out of my arm and elbow. Like Gut/Poly also, going to do some more experimenting on that. Still worried with a Gut/ZX hybrid that the ZX will make short work of the Gut mains.

Plus, wouldn't ZX lose tension much faster than polys such as MaxPower or 4g, thus decreasing playability compared to gut/poly hybrid?

Shroud · Jul 24, 2018

IowaGuy said:
Plus, wouldn't ZX lose tension much faster than polys such as MaxPower or 4g, thus decreasing playability compared to gut/poly hybrid?

Nope...atleast not if its prestretched. Like where it stretches 2’ permanently. Once you do that its as stable as the gut mains. Its and awesome combo if you are ok with a softer feel. Which imho is why people play gut anyhow

tomato123 · Aug 12, 2018

So I strung up my wife's racquet with gut/zx over the weekend, and I typically string zx on my dropweight and let the string completely settle on the dropweight over a few seconds as a way to prestretch the zx. However, when we went out to play this morning we noticed that the gut mains were locking into place and not having the free movement that my gut/poly frame had, and it needed straightening out regularly - it almost felt like synthetic gut even down to the sound it makes when you straighten out synthetic gut.

Anyone else experience this? One guess I have for the cause of this is that using the dropweight to prestretch ZX also puts stress on the gut mains that are already in place and consequently makes the zx dig into the gut or simluates a pre-stretch effect on the gut to make it stiffer? However, even when I played with it I did not feel like spin was lacking and the overall feel was great. I'm hoping that the gut will settle back into its normal state over time and if it does I may try it out on my own frame because I really love the feel of the stringbed.

NickShot · Aug 13, 2018

What about zyex(prestreched)/gut? Will it play closer to poly/gut hybrid?

Muppet · Aug 17, 2018

tomato123 said:
So I strung up my wife's racquet with gut/zx over the weekend, and I typically string zx on my dropweight and let the string completely settle on the dropweight over a few seconds as a way to prestretch the zx. However, when we went out to play this morning we noticed that the gut mains were locking into place and not having the free movement that my gut/poly frame had, and it needed straightening out regularly - it almost felt like synthetic gut even down to the sound it makes when you straighten out synthetic gut.

Anyone else experience this? One guess I have for the cause of this is that using the dropweight to prestretch ZX also puts stress on the gut mains that are already in place and consequently makes the zx dig into the gut or simluates a pre-stretch effect on the gut to make it stiffer? However, even when I played with it I did not feel like spin was lacking and the overall feel was great. I'm hoping that the gut will settle back into its normal state over time and if it does I may try it out on my own frame because I really love the feel of the stringbed.

The ZX will be dropping a lot of tension soon. So it will be allowing the gut mains more freedom.

Muppet · Aug 17, 2018

NickShot said:
What about zyex(prestreched)/gut? Will it play closer to poly/gut hybrid?

We don't take kindly 'round these parts, hearin' of using natural gut as a cross strang.

There are better and much less expensive choices, such as a multi or a soft synthetic gut, that have slippery coatings and a much cheaper price tag. (Try Babolat Spiraltek.)

ashridge · Aug 19, 2018

I really want to try the Gut/ZX hybrid soon, but I am really skeptical of how long it will last before the Gut mains break since ZX is so hard and abrasive against other strings. Anyone have any input on that from personal experience?

tomato123 said:
So I strung up my wife's racquet with gut/zx over the weekend, and I typically string zx on my dropweight and let the string completely settle on the dropweight over a few seconds as a way to prestretch the zx. However, when we went out to play this morning we noticed that the gut mains were locking into place and not having the free movement that my gut/poly frame had, and it needed straightening out regularly - it almost felt like synthetic gut even down to the sound it makes when you straighten out synthetic gut.

Anyone else experience this? One guess I have for the cause of this is that using the dropweight to prestretch ZX also puts stress on the gut mains that are already in place and consequently makes the zx dig into the gut or simluates a pre-stretch effect on the gut to make it stiffer? However, even when I played with it I did not feel like spin was lacking and the overall feel was great. I'm hoping that the gut will settle back into its normal state over time and if it does I may try it out on my own frame because I really love the feel of the stringbed.

At what tension did you string the Gut/ZX in your wife's racquet?

travlerajm · Aug 19, 2018

Muppet said:
We don't take kindly 'round these parts, hearin' of using natural gut as a cross strang.

There are better and much less expensive choices, such as a multi or a soft synthetic gut, that have slippery coatings and a much cheaper price tag. (Try Babolat Spiraltek.)

Just watched pospisil on “bag check” saying he’s been using lux alu mains and gut crosses for many years. Not as much spin, but maybe better launch angle control for doubs specialists?

tomato123 · Aug 19, 2018

ashridge said:
I really want to try the Gut/ZX hybrid soon, but I am really skeptical of how long it will last before the Gut mains break since ZX is so hard and abrasive against other strings. Anyone have any input on that from personal experience?

At what tension did you string the Gut/ZX in your wife's racquet?

I strung it with Lux natural gut 16 gauge and black ZX 17 gauge at 60/55 on her Prince Phantom 100. But she is not a string breaker so I'm not sure if that would provide a good benchmark for how long the setup would play. I currently play Gut/Poly with my Phantom 93P which is a 18x20 pattern and lasts me around 15 hours before I cut it out because the poly half of the hybrid starts to get uncomfortable for me, so I would also put myself in the non-string-breaker category. I also play with an eastern forehand grip and don't have a heavy topspin game, which probably helps on the string durability end too. If I were to string Gut/ZX on my frame I'd hope to get at around 12+ hours and I'm considering some of the DIY pre-stretch devices that others just shared on the Kevlar/ZX thread, but I would imagine on a more open string pattern and Semi-western/Western topspin players it would probably not last as long.

But whenever I think about ZX hybrids I always end up with the conclusion that kevlar/zx really is the most optimal setup for ZX with everything that hybrid has to offer, but it seems that one has to be very intentional about customizing the frame to mitigate the setup's downsides. I also have trouble producing a consistent string job each time I pick up that hybrid, so at some point I'll be getting a third 93P frame which I'll probably dedicate to figuring that out while I play with gut hybrid and a bad weather backup in the meantime.

Muppet · Aug 19, 2018

travlerajm said:
Just watched pospisil on “bag check” saying he’s been using lux alu mains and gut crosses for many years. Not as much spin, but maybe better launch angle control for doubs specialists?

To that I say, "Alpha Gut 2000." Natural gut crosses fray and that's an expensive way to go for worse performance.

esgee48 · Aug 19, 2018

@tomato123: If you intend to use a DW to stretch out the ZX, waiting a few seconds won't do it. The ZX will stretch and seem to settle. But if you pull the string up/down, the weight will settle some more. You need to move the string several times up/down to get the string to really stop stretching. Takes at least 15 seconds and sometimes 20 seconds on my machine until it stops making noise. 60/55 is also too low a differential. You probably have the NG near 60 but your ZX is not anywhere near a consistent 55. It is lower, but probably very inconsistent as far as tension, which is why the NG sticks.

@Shroud: When you get as old as Mr Crait and I, 60 year babes do exist. It's the new middle aged category.

travlerajm · Aug 19, 2018

esgee48 said:
@tomato123: If you intend to use a DW to stretch out the ZX, waiting a few seconds won't do it. The ZX will stretch and seem to settle. But if you pull the string up/down, the weight will settle some more. You need to move the string several times up/down to get the string to really stop stretching. Takes at least 15 seconds and sometimes 20 seconds on my machine until it stops making noise. 60/55 is also too low a differential. You probably have the NG near 60 but your ZX is not anywhere near a consistent 55. It is lower, but probably very inconsistent as far as tension, which is why the NG sticks.

That's because the degree of prestretch is a function of both tension and time. The drop weight stretches at the reference tension. Lifting the dropweight and letting it fall momentarily increases the tension above the reference tension.
To prestretch effectively, you need to prestretch at a higher tension that the strings experience during a ball impact, and do it for several minutes.

tennisbike · Aug 23, 2018

Traverajm: I am still waiting to learn the Stringmeter value on the 16+19 strings on your high tension differential string bed. I suspect that the differential is not as drastic as we think. When I retensioned the cross, increasing the tension, with main already tied, the differential was actually greater after the retensioning, though less hoop squash. But of course, the performance of the string bed may be effected by the hoop's internal pre-tensioned.

2nd question: do you walk the tension from outside in or inside out? I did outside in to increase center mains before weaving cross strings.

ashridge · Sep 2, 2018

Ok, so I've finally strung up my racquet with Tonic NG Longevity (15l) mains and ZX Pro (black) crosses. Tension is 58x55. Going to hit with it tomorrow for the first time. As previously mentioned, I am significantly skeptical about how durable the Gut mains will be on the ZX crosses with my topspin game. Yesterday I was reading about Babolat elastocross string savers. I have never used string savers, but it got me to thinking it might extend the life of the gut mains if I was to put some string savers in the area of the stringbed where I usually see the most wear and break my strings. What I'm really afraid of is that I'm going to love the Gut/ZX hybrid set-up but not be able to afford it because it breaks too quickly. I can't afford to be putting $23 worth of strings in my racquet once a month. Does anyone have any experience with using string savers specifically on this Gut/ZX hybrid set-up?

ashridge · Sep 3, 2018

Well, I got to hit with my Gut/ZX Pro hybrid this morning for the first time. And I can say my Gut/ZX experiment is probably over already. This set of Gut had just a smidge over 4 hours of playing time on it with other cross strings before I strung up the ZX Pro crosses this week. There was some minor fraying, but overall the Gut mains were still in very good shape. These were Tonic 15l/Longevity gut mains. After just over an hour of play with the ZX Pro crosses, I broke a Gut main. Shocked me. It broke in a slightly different spot than I usually break strings, but it was nowhere near the frame, so definitely not a shank. And there were other mains in much worse shape when I broke that one than they were in when I started my match this morning. So, basically, the ZX Pro crosses ate the 15 gauge Gut mains for breakfast. Only way I would even consider trying this set-up again is with string savers. Way too much money to have to cut out after just a few hours. I did get good spin with it, almost Gut/Poly type spin. Gut mains did not stay straight, which surprised me.

Shroud · Sep 3, 2018

ashridge said:
Well, I got to hit with my Gut/ZX Pro hybrid this morning for the first time. And I can say my Gut/ZX experiment is probably over already. This set of Gut had just a smidge over 4 hours of playing time on it with other cross strings before I strung up the ZX Pro crosses this week. There was some minor fraying, but overall the Gut mains were still in very good shape. These were Tonic 15l/Longevity gut mains. After just over an hour of play with the ZX Pro crosses, I broke a Gut main. Shocked me. It broke in a slightly different spot than I usually break strings, but it was nowhere near the frame, so definitely not a shank. And there were other mains in much worse shape when I broke that one than they were in when I started my match this morning. So, basically, the ZX Pro crosses ate the 15 gauge Gut mains for breakfast. Only way I would even consider trying this set-up again is with string savers. Way too much money to have to cut out after just a few hours. I did get good spin with it, almost Gut/Poly type spin. Gut mains did not stay straight, which surprised me.

Hey did you restring the crosses? It sounds like the mains were used??

ashridge · Sep 3, 2018

Shroud said:
Hey did you restring the crosses? It sounds like the mains were used??

Yes, as I mentioned the Gut mains had a little over 4 hours of play time on them with different crosses (poly) that I experimented with and then cut out. The Gut mains were still in very good shape when I put the ZX Pro crosses in this week.

Shroud · Sep 4, 2018

ashridge said:
Yes, as I mentioned the Gut mains had a little over 4 hours of play time on them with different crosses (poly) that I experimented with and then cut out. The Gut mains were still in very good shape when I put the ZX Pro crosses in this week.

Ok did you alter the weave when doing the zx? Or did you keep it the same?

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