Just wondering, are there any particular reasons why you pulsate tensioning?
Kev/zyex: get the setup right
- Thread starter penguin
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Just wondering, are there any particular reasons why you pulsate tensioning?
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
Yes. Pulsing my weight roughly doubles the peak force exerted on the string, which nearly doubles the final amount of permanent elongation for a much more effective prestretch.
Guys.
My experiments with deep pre-stretching.
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/deep-pre-stretching-hint-i-use-gasoline.601336/
So, I prestretched my ZX Pro about 4" on 16', so not nearly enough. I strung it at the suggested starting of 60/40. It played *awesome* for a week or so. Then it started to get a little wonky, then it got really soft... I untied the knot on the crosses. There was literally no tension on the crosses what-so-ever. On a whim, I gently unstrung the crosses most of the way then USED THE SAME PIECE OF STRING to restring the crosses. Pulled them at 45 this time for ****s and giggles. Stick is back to feeling awesome... Oh, I pulled almost 6" of string out after I tied a new knot...
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Yep. Thats why a good prestretch is a must on zx... if you want it to last a long time. Besically you hit a week or so and that basically did what the prestretching would do...
There is a thread on the stringers forum not this one that has the word retensioning in the title. It shows how to tie knots so you can retension the same string. Its worth investigating and i have done it a couple of times. Kevlar benefits though i havent done it with zx
Prestretch is just a good habit imho as it minimizes tension loss
That's great. I never thought about restringing crosses.
Wouldn't it extra stressful on the frame somehow?
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
I always restring crosses. especially because kevlar lasts. No issues on the frame if you do it right. Put the racquet in the stringer THEN cut out the crosses. String the crosses. Tip is to adjust the weave so the new cross is not in the same grove as the earlier cross.
Here is another option to not just restringing the crosses but retensioning everything.
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/how-to-re-tension-a-string.558504/#post-10134801
I don't know- I mounted it in the machine, and made it a little tight- so I had to press it down a little to get it to go on...
But I could just untie the knot, just a regular Parnell knot, no problem. And the string didn't pull back at all, anywhere. So not much tension on it at all... So I'd say the crosses weren't doing much. I was getting some really great spin, though. Not much control, but crazy spin.
MarTennis
Semi-Pro
graycrait
Legend
I kept my dogs out of the area of operations so they didn't lose an eye
I broke some string, had knots slip out and had knots hold. I got 27" of permanent stretch out of 17'9" of Zyex 17g. This required pulling 48" over and then I arbitrarily held it for 10 minutes. I got 3" of permanent stretch out of 16g Ashaway Kevlar. I strung both strings up in a Prince PCG 100 16x18 at 72/60lbs, Kev mains, Zyex crosses, with no issue. Temps: outdoors - 86, indoors 76. Prestretching in colder weather would probably change things.
I broke some string, had knots slip out and had knots hold. I got 27" of permanent stretch out of 17'9" of Zyex 17g. This required pulling 48" over and then I arbitrarily held it for 10 minutes. I got 3" of permanent stretch out of 16g Ashaway Kevlar. I strung both strings up in a Prince PCG 100 16x18 at 72/60lbs, Kev mains, Zyex crosses, with no issue. Temps: outdoors - 86, indoors 76. Prestretching in colder weather would probably change things.
Holy ****. You pulled 4' out of 18' of string. It stretched that much.
How did they break? Trying to avoid that if I can... I'm currently just grabbing the string with floating clamps, with the string doubled back (so it's on both sides of the clamp) with something round on the bent string end so it can't actually bend to a 90* angle- to keep a bigger radius in it...
How did they break? Trying to avoid that if I can... I'm currently just grabbing the string with floating clamps, with the string doubled back (so it's on both sides of the clamp) with something round on the bent string end so it can't actually bend to a 90* angle- to keep a bigger radius in it...
graycrait
Legend
I was shocked too, plus I just quit without knowing how much it would stretch because I ran out of room. It broke at a knot on my first attempt but I had this hinky thing going using a c-clamp.
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
Well done! The new prestretching champ of TTW.I kept my dogs out of the area of operations so they didn't lose an eye
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
I think you'll find tension loss to be much less noticeable with this more "thorough" prestretching protocol.I kept my dogs out of the area of operations so they didn't lose an eye
Sure I will report more in the future.
So far I have played 7-8 hours with deep pre-stretched zx(gut + zx hybrid).
I pre-stretched about 1 foot out of 20 feet zx.
I lowered tension about 10%.
It played pretty firm first 4-5 hours and now
it feels like soft poly. Pre-stretching looks like it bypassed first 10 hours of playing characteristics of unprestretched zx.
It kinda discouraging me to further pre-stretching zx beyond 1 foot out of 20'.
Im not sure if it will change playing characteristics of zx string bed after stabilized.
Please let us know how your deep prestreched zx plays. Thanks.
graycrait
Legend
I was or am in that same boat, 1' out of 18' seems about right. However, I went down to the courts the last two days and played with the super prestretched racket and really like it. Just to get a proper comparison I strung up two other PCG 100s, one with fresh fullbed of Tourbite 18g and another with 16g T1 Boost, both at 52lbs as it is little cooler here right now. I already have a another PCG 100 strung with Ash Kev x Zyex prestretched my old way. I like either of the Ash Kev x Zyex strung PCG 100s better than the PCG 100s strung with poly, including a 5th PCG strung with 17g Black Magic.
I doubt Sock or Tiafoe would want to play with Ash Kev x Zyex but it works better for me than poly or any other string setup I have tried. I have this unfounded feeling that severe prestretching the Kevlar might be useful whereas too much prestretching zyex... well who really knows - depends on the person swinging the stick.
The one really good thing about Ash Kev x Zyex is that you don't have to worry about it till it breaks, which can be a long while. Right now I have the following rackets strung with Ash Kev x Zyex: 1xPOG OS, 2 PCG 100, 2xWarrior 100, 1xBlade 98 18x20, 1x Head Graphene Prestige Pro 18x20 and a giant headed Volkl Catapult 1 leaded to 11.2oz headlight. Day in and day out I like the PCG 100s the best, esp if they weigh around 11.8oz.
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MarTennis
Semi-Pro
Thanks for the update.
I think I'll try different tensions with zx deep pre-stretched next time.
In my case, I hybrid gut/zx and wants crisper zx. Yet I really loved first a few hours of unpresterched zx crosses. It was like full bed gut with much higher spin potential. My desire is limitless!
graycrait
Legend
I've done the Nat Gut x Zyex cross a number of times. I can play with it but I like Ash Kev x Zyex better. Nat Gut x Zyex would be my 2nd alternative for a long playing stringbed.
welcome2petrkordaland
Professional
Fellow Kev/Zyex enthusiasts--
So I converted to this Kev/Zyex high differential tension hybrid about 6 months ago and am still digging it, although I am still searching for my ideal tension. I've used 60/48, 58-53, and 65/47.
BTW, I use a Prince Tour 100 ESP 16 x16. Overall, the 60/48 and 65/47 seemed to bring about much more spin and shape on my ball for big cuts than the 58/53. AFA string duration, here's what happened: After about 10 hours of hitting with each stick, last weekend I believe I was hitting and noticed the strings seemed to have very little tension and every time a cracked the ball with a big cut, you could see bits and pieces of the kevlar disintegrating. I could also hear the kevlar kind of like stretch out slightly with each stoke lol. It was obviously time for some maintenance/restringing, but I did want to note that while the strings did not break-- and I'm a string breaker for sure--after 10-15 hours of pretty large cut hitting, the strings were virtually unplayably loose and wild. Next time I may take the Zyex to get retensioned after 5-6 hours...
This week I got these same 3 sticks restrung with these tensions: 67/52, 65/45, 63/48. I will report back on how I perceived these differences in performance.
AFA the prestretching, I am doing the manual body lean prestretching method-- this time I actually pulsed a good bit. Because I like this setup and it fits my needs so well, I will find a way to continue going through this rather demanding prestretching process. I admit that it is tough on the arms and shoulders to do it this way, and I think I'll do more controlled pulsing to save my arms/shoulders. I will have to be careful prepare a "landing strip" bc the string breaks at a knot every other time I do a prestretch ... I am trying to be careful lol.
I am curious to see if my stringer--I don't know how to string and use a stringer--will RETENSION my strings, or at least the Zyex xx's after a few weeks of play. It was fascinating and made sense to me how other posters were noticing a complete and utter lack of tension in the zyex crosses after banging the ball for a few weeks or so...
Finally, I love the Graycrait pulley system as well as others' ideas, but since I don't have a working bench like a vice or much else to work with, I may be limited to the manual body lean pulsed method...
So I converted to this Kev/Zyex high differential tension hybrid about 6 months ago and am still digging it, although I am still searching for my ideal tension. I've used 60/48, 58-53, and 65/47.
BTW, I use a Prince Tour 100 ESP 16 x16. Overall, the 60/48 and 65/47 seemed to bring about much more spin and shape on my ball for big cuts than the 58/53. AFA string duration, here's what happened: After about 10 hours of hitting with each stick, last weekend I believe I was hitting and noticed the strings seemed to have very little tension and every time a cracked the ball with a big cut, you could see bits and pieces of the kevlar disintegrating. I could also hear the kevlar kind of like stretch out slightly with each stoke lol. It was obviously time for some maintenance/restringing, but I did want to note that while the strings did not break-- and I'm a string breaker for sure--after 10-15 hours of pretty large cut hitting, the strings were virtually unplayably loose and wild. Next time I may take the Zyex to get retensioned after 5-6 hours...
This week I got these same 3 sticks restrung with these tensions: 67/52, 65/45, 63/48. I will report back on how I perceived these differences in performance.
AFA the prestretching, I am doing the manual body lean prestretching method-- this time I actually pulsed a good bit. Because I like this setup and it fits my needs so well, I will find a way to continue going through this rather demanding prestretching process. I admit that it is tough on the arms and shoulders to do it this way, and I think I'll do more controlled pulsing to save my arms/shoulders. I will have to be careful prepare a "landing strip" bc the string breaks at a knot every other time I do a prestretch ... I am trying to be careful lol.
I am curious to see if my stringer--I don't know how to string and use a stringer--will RETENSION my strings, or at least the Zyex xx's after a few weeks of play. It was fascinating and made sense to me how other posters were noticing a complete and utter lack of tension in the zyex crosses after banging the ball for a few weeks or so...
Finally, I love the Graycrait pulley system as well as others' ideas, but since I don't have a working bench like a vice or much else to work with, I may be limited to the manual body lean pulsed method...
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Good post. Dont be afraid to experiment with higher differentials. 20lb plus. You are already at 18 i think so give 25lb a shot and see what you like
I think you are experiencing the kevlar notching. It just gets worse but will play great till it breaks. Was it ashaway??
welcome2petrkordaland
Professional
Yes, it was Ashaway. it didn't seem to be notching but I could be wrong. the playability was a joke.. as I continued to hit with it that nt last week, the launch angle seemed to get lower and lower,which was teaching/indicating to me to hit up more and use more spin... so it was not good at all as it was conditioning me to modify how I produced my stoke lol
welcome2petrkordaland
Professional
I hit with the freshly strung and of course prestrethed 67/52 for about 20 min. the other night, and it seemed to not get the shape I expected... I believe the tension of the zyex needs to be lower and the difference should be, like you say, at least 20 lbs. for that archbow effect
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
Maybe the zx will soften with another sesssion or two?
graycrait
Legend
I have a friend who uses the Tour 100 ESP 16x16. The string he likes in this racket is Pro's Pro Cyber Power at 58lbs. Just mentioning it. I put the Cyber Power in his racket because he hated the Velocity I thought he would like. He sidles around my Kevlar/Zyex strung rackets like they are poisonous snakes and won't even touch them. This is the normal reaction I get except for the 4 other locals who have adopted Kev/Zyex. I'm going to have to do the 86/40 or so with some winch stretched Kev & Zyex and see what happens. For some reason I have been avoiding those high and extreme tension differentials.
welcome2petrkordaland
Professional
@travlerajm- the kev/zy setup has been feeling good right from the start AFA I have noticed... is it conventional wisdom that there may be a "break-in" period with the zyex? Seems like that's what you're implying. I know some strings do have that.
@graycrait- it's been said that kev/zy is tailor made for ESP sticks and I concur, esp. for big hitters/string breakers who can't use poly. i'm assuming Pros pro cyber power is a multi ? guess i can look it up. A multi would not last long for me at this stage of the game and since I don't string my own, it's not feasible. funny though, that you mention Velocity bc I got one one my Tour Esp's strung up w/ velocity in mains (58ish IIRC) and prestretched Zyex crosses at like 57, and it felt and played good while serving the other night... As I get older and learn to string, I see my setup being something like that for the added pop.
@graycrait- it's been said that kev/zy is tailor made for ESP sticks and I concur, esp. for big hitters/string breakers who can't use poly. i'm assuming Pros pro cyber power is a multi ? guess i can look it up. A multi would not last long for me at this stage of the game and since I don't string my own, it's not feasible. funny though, that you mention Velocity bc I got one one my Tour Esp's strung up w/ velocity in mains (58ish IIRC) and prestretched Zyex crosses at like 57, and it felt and played good while serving the other night... As I get older and learn to string, I see my setup being something like that for the added pop.
graycrait
Legend
I prestretched some 17g zyex with about 18" of permanent stretch and then stretched the bejeezues out of 16g Ash Kev, till it broke knots at tie off points - twice. That was good enough for me. I was just a shade under 12" or temporary stretch. Next time I'll tie better knots and see where the Ash Kev will break. With those two half sets of string up a Prince Tour Pro 100 16x18 at 86/50 on my lockout. I'll get a hit tomorrow.
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
The better you prestretch, the less noticeable the break-in period.
Hokay.
I've got a documented 50 hours on 2 racquets over the last 6 weeks with this string. That counts the retension of the crosses after 2 weeks. So 25 hours on each set of string.
The last week or 2 they've felt a little wonky. That's right, wonky. I cut one set out today and there was almost no tension left in the strings whatsoever. All of the cuts pulled back the smallest bit, but that was it.
I put a new set in before 4.0 mens doubles tonight, pulled about 6.5" out of 16' of ZX, 60/40. Much better feel, very noticeable pocketing of the ball, it was back to playing really nice. And that's the thing, when it was old and soft it still played ok- the stringbed never locked up, I played some really good tennis with it, it never hurt my elbow- but it wasn't nearly as special. The pocketing and spin of a fresh set it nice.
So for me, maybe 2 weeks, so in the 15 hour range, plus or minus. Which is still way better than the Polylon 16/17- which I was doing every 6 hours- so in the double to triple the time range... We'll see how it goes. But now you know what I know.
Volkl PB 10 Mid, leaded up a bit in the head and handle, leather grip, a bit heavy and a bit headlight (I think about 368g and balanced at 318 or so.)
I've got a documented 50 hours on 2 racquets over the last 6 weeks with this string. That counts the retension of the crosses after 2 weeks. So 25 hours on each set of string.
The last week or 2 they've felt a little wonky. That's right, wonky. I cut one set out today and there was almost no tension left in the strings whatsoever. All of the cuts pulled back the smallest bit, but that was it.
I put a new set in before 4.0 mens doubles tonight, pulled about 6.5" out of 16' of ZX, 60/40. Much better feel, very noticeable pocketing of the ball, it was back to playing really nice. And that's the thing, when it was old and soft it still played ok- the stringbed never locked up, I played some really good tennis with it, it never hurt my elbow- but it wasn't nearly as special. The pocketing and spin of a fresh set it nice.
So for me, maybe 2 weeks, so in the 15 hour range, plus or minus. Which is still way better than the Polylon 16/17- which I was doing every 6 hours- so in the double to triple the time range... We'll see how it goes. But now you know what I know.
Volkl PB 10 Mid, leaded up a bit in the head and handle, leather grip, a bit heavy and a bit headlight (I think about 368g and balanced at 318 or so.)
skydog
Professional
Playing with the Kevlar/ZX hybrid in my Tour 98 ESP’s (16x16) I can get about 30-35 hours of play before the Kevlar mains have loosened to the point of noticible power increase. The racquet is still playable as it has not notched, but it is a bit harder to control depth. Going to up the prestretch on the Kevlar to 20% machine prestretch to see if I can squeeze a bit more life out of the mains.
welcome2petrkordaland
Professional
Skydog, I'd like to pick your brain about something I just read, considering you seem to be using a racket/string setup almost identical to mine. (I use a Prince EXO ESP Tour 100- 16 x 16 w/ Kev/zx at 65/48ish) Are you using a high tension differential setup like 65/45??
If so, I'm gonna ask you a question...
If so, I'm gonna ask you a question...
skydog
Professional
I am currently at 64 / 52. I did up the prestretch on both the Kevlar and ZX and bump the tension up 3 lbs on the tie off pulls. I have experimented with the tension differtial and the tension on the Kevlar quite a bit, and have ended up at the 64/52. Did not like the ZX below 50 and have not gone above 52. Kevlar I have tried from 57 to 65 and found that I like 64 for the best feel/performance.
welcome2petrkordaland
Professional
Appreciate the feedback. I'm basically happy with my setup, which is pretty similar and I'm closing in on the exact tensions after a few months of experimenting.
However, I read something TravelerJam said about how in his opinion, super open patterns like ours actually don't need the high tension differentials like an 18 x 20 pattern would, for example. That's all. It just made me think, since I've never really tried like 64/60 or 63/58. (I'm still waiting for a response from Travelr on this.)
The closest difference I tried was 58/53, which played decent but it seemed to have a lower, very normal launch angle (less arc/shape) compared to the high differentials, which wasn't what I was looking for.
Now, one thing I am convinced of with all this is that the kevlar mains do need to be quite tight.
As soon as I get the manual prestretching done, I'm gonna drop off some sticks. While I plan to do 2 rackets at like 65/50, I may do one like 65/60 just to see how it plays... I'll report back.
However, I read something TravelerJam said about how in his opinion, super open patterns like ours actually don't need the high tension differentials like an 18 x 20 pattern would, for example. That's all. It just made me think, since I've never really tried like 64/60 or 63/58. (I'm still waiting for a response from Travelr on this.)
The closest difference I tried was 58/53, which played decent but it seemed to have a lower, very normal launch angle (less arc/shape) compared to the high differentials, which wasn't what I was looking for.
Now, one thing I am convinced of with all this is that the kevlar mains do need to be quite tight.
As soon as I get the manual prestretching done, I'm gonna drop off some sticks. While I plan to do 2 rackets at like 65/50, I may do one like 65/60 just to see how it plays... I'll report back.
skydog
Professional
The more I think about it, I did try the ZX at 54 lbs once and did not like it.(prior to when I started my stringing log.) Started my adventure in the Tour 98 ESP @ 57x50 as that is what I settled on in my Blade 104’s. I adjusted from there as that was just too powerful in the open pattern, but it worked perfectly in the tight patterned 104.
