16x19 racquet patterns

[shell]

Sorry for the world's most stupid question here, but here I go.

I've been stringing my own racquets for about 2 -3 years, but they have always been 16x20 or 16x18 (even numbers) racquets. And I am certainly not the most advanced stringer out there, but I usually get the job done OK. I only string for myself due to this, as I don't trust myself with other's racquets.

I now have a 16x19, and I just strung it up. Of course, the top two strings and the bottom two strings do not "over under" correctly. I actually thought about this before starting, but then failed to make any adjustment.

Do you just count grommets and adjust for the last 2 crosses at top and bottom? Instead of starting the cross as over then under, do you start the first and last two as under then over?

I hope I am being clear. Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Irvin]

I assume you're doing an ATW pattern or you would not have the issue. I like to do a short side ATW. I string with sets and use 7 racket lengths for the short side. On the short side I string 7 mains (on a 16 main racket) and hold the tail with a starting clamp at the top of the frame. I then string 7 mains on the long side and use the long side tail to string the third cross down to the next to last cross and tie off. Then I use the short side tail to string the outside main on the short side, bottom cross, outside main on the long side, top cross (weave the same as the third cross,) and then the second cross and tie off. Does not matter how many crosses you have.

EDIT: To specifically address your problem. All odd crosses in a frame are the same, and all even crosses are opposite the odd crosses. The first cross you weave sets the pattern. If your first cross is the bottom cross in a frame with an even number of cross the second cross at the top will be the same and the first will be opposite.

 

[shell]

Irvin, I wish it were that simple. I am doing a two piece, and I am sure it is a very simple thing, but I am not getting it.

Maybe the question is "how do you start your crosses"...over then under and switch each string?

Unfortunately, this is the most basic of questions...and possibly a very stupid one. But I have messed this up now multiple times.

 

[Irvin]

You don't want to know. What holes are skipped on the top and bottom of the frame?

 

[shell]

You don't want to know. What holes are skipped on the top and bottom of the frame?

Irvin, you are a patient saint.
hole 7, both sides, on the top for two strings.
3,4,5,6 for three strings, both sides, on the throat. hole 7 for two strings.

Wow, it is worse than I thought.

 

[Irvin]

What racket is that?

 

[shell]

What racket is that?

Donnay x-p dual core black. 16x19 pattern. I don't think it is the racquet or pattern. I have a feeling it is a very basic stringing error. I may need to just watch some vids for basic stringing technique.

I learned on the 16x20 Wilson, then the 16x18 Dunlop was still basically the same. I always think "start your cross over the main, then under, and finish under the main". That way I knew I did not have a miss weave. Now, I think I need to adjust that somehow due to the odd number crosses.

But then there is this...my crosses don't end up over and under the mains at the bottom or top. Mostly the throat.

 

[diredesire]

Here's the simple answer: Look at the previous string, and think about it. Blindly following rules (Start every cross under the main) is silly. This only applies when you're on the same main as the previous cross.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=430464

That thread is asking essentially the same question.

It's obvious that when you "misweave," the weave is going the same direction as the previous string, right? This is why you take a quick peek at the previous string to see if you're alternating or not. It's easy to do so when you bring your eye level down to string-bed level (Put your chin on the grip, and look at the strings, misweaves will stick out like a sore thumb).

With that said: for something "simple" like this (it's not obvious at first, I understand), don't follow black and white rules of thumb, because there are different string patterns out there. Pay attention, and it will allllllllll become clear

 

[diredesire]

Donnay x-p dual core black. 16x19 pattern. I don't think it is the racquet or pattern. I have a feeling it is a very basic stringing error. I may need to just watch some vids for basic stringing technique.

I learned on the 16x20 Wilson, then the 16x18 Dunlop was still basically the same. I always think "start your cross over the main, then under, and finish under the main". That way I knew I did not have a miss weave. Now, I think I need to adjust that somehow due to the odd number crosses.

But then there is this...my crosses don't end up over and under the mains at the bottom or top. Mostly the throat.

It's not the # of crosses, it's the number of skipped holes, or rather, the number of mains you weave across per cross. When you move up a cross (the location of the misweave), you are "missing" (or adding, if you really think about it) a main, thus the "polarity" (whether or not you start up or down) switches.

 

[Irvin]

Donnay x-p dual core black. 16x19 pattern...

The mains in that racket skip 7&9 head and throat. So if you start with your second cross in grommet 9H you will go under the first main (7th main) and finish over the last main (7th mains) on the other side. Then weave your top cross in the 7H grommet going over the fist main (6th main.) Crosses 3 to 17 start by going over the first main, cross 18 start under, and the bottom cross is over again.

EDIT: Something tells me you are ending up with the top three crosses all the the same and the bottom three all the same. It is only your second and next to last that are messed up.

 

[struggle]

just gotta pay attention. i've screwed it up too, but
i also no longer follow any "rules" on this so i think it makes
me pay more attention as i go along.

 

[shell]

Ah ha! Eureka! So you guys are trying to tell me that I must not go through this process without a thought in my mind?! :shock:

Well, OK then...

Just kidding. Thank you so much for the conceptual and literal answers. They have both been very helpful. I've been able to get away with lazy stringing in the past, and now I need to pay more attention. I'll try this next time, but I'm not going to cut this one out - BDE Perf. gut mains and poly cross. Bummer. A $25 mistake

 

[shell]

The mains in that racket skip 7&9 head and throat. So if you start with your second cross in grommet 9H you will go under the first main (7th main) and finish over the last main (7th mains) on the other side. Then weave your top cross in the 7H grommet going over the fist main (6th main.) Crosses 3 to 17 start by going over the first main, cross 18 start under, and the bottom cross is over again.

EDIT: Something tells me you are ending up with the top three crosses all the the same and the bottom three all the same. It is only your second and next to last that are messed up.

This. Thank you Irvin. You are spot on, per usual.
Diredesire's links and answers are most helpful also.
You guys are wonderful, and a credit to these boards. Thank you for your time and efforts.

 

[tennytive]

I assume you're doing an ATW pattern or you would not have the issue. I like to do a short side ATW. I string with sets and use 7 racket lengths for the short side. On the short side I string 7 mains (on a 16 main racket) and hold the tail with a starting clamp at the top of the frame. I then string 7 mains on the long side and use the long side tail to string the third cross down to the next to last cross and tie off. Then I use the short side tail to string the outside main on the short side, bottom cross, outside main on the long side, top cross (weave the same as the third cross,) and then the second cross and tie off. Does not matter how many crosses you have.

Irvin,

I thought about giving this method a try and watched your video yesterday.(Not sure if the video matches your post decription) However there seems to be 5 hardweaves, the string on the outside of the frame would appear to have a lot of overlaps/crossovers, and I don't quite follow why at the end you would string the top cross before the second to top, again creating another long overlap on the outside of the frame. With all the outside string, how are there not any blocked holes, and doesn't the string start to protrude outside the grooves?

I have a POG OS 16 x 19 and string one piece ATW/box? The only overlap is the top cross at 8 tying off at 5H. The rest of the frame is clean.

I just remembered in your video you strung the second top cross before the finishing off with the first, so I presume the video is another variation of your ATW patterns.

Appreciate all your videos, very helpful, just wondering how you came to this method and what are the advantages? Thanks.

 

[Irvin]

I would not string that racket with an ATW pattern. The reason being you only skip one grommet on each side top and bottom. Because you only skip one grommet (8) instead of 2 (7 & 9) there is going to be a short section of frame that supports the string when you change from a main to a cross. That is not good. I would advise you to string two piece. When you string two piece the mains go from 9 to 6 for tying off and the crosses go from 8 to 5 on top and 8 to 11 on bottom. That longer frame span puts a lot less stress on the racket at 2 and 10 o'clock where most of your problems will come up.

If your skipped two grommet holes the outside main would go from 10 to to 7 each time and there is more frame to support the transition from main to cross. That also answer the question of why string the top cross first then the second. So when I go from the outside main (10) to the top cross (7) there is more frame for support.

I know it has been done thousands of times (even by me) I just don't recommend it.

Now for the no hard weaves. If you leave enough slack on the short side (I use 7 racket lengths or about 16') you can pre-weave the outside mains bottom cross and top two crosses but don't pull tension. Now when you take the long side and weaves crosses 3 to 18 (or next to last) you will not have a hard weave or a blocked hole. I use 40' of string to do this so my string is 16' and 24' so I also have less string to work with on the long side.

IMHO stringing that racket with an ATW pattern is about the same as stringing the racket bottom up. Doing either method puts more stress on the frame at one or more of the four corners.

 

[bugeyed]

It's not the # of crosses, it's the number of skipped holes, or rather, the number of mains you weave across per cross. When you move up a cross (the location of the misweave), you are "missing" (or adding, if you really think about it) a main, thus the "polarity" (whether or not you start up or down) switches.

I understand what you are saying here, but, judging by the OP's question, it's probably about as clear as mud. IMO The advice about just making sure you are weaving opposite to the previous cross is the best. Don't pay any attention to whether you start above or below the cross, until you "get" it.

Cheers,
kev

 

[SwankPeRFection]

Here is what I do when I string my 90's.

When I finish the last main, I come down and start my first cross (it's a Wilson, so one piece allows bottom up). I always go over the top of the first cross I have to start on. Knowing this and knowing that until I get to a cross that utilizes all the mains (16 of them) I must pay close attention to begin the next cross the same way as I ended the previous one. The reason for this is that as you move to the next cross up, you're adding another main on each side which means that in order to keep the strings alternating from previous, you have to start the same way until you get past the first two crosses. Once you're on the 3rd cross which crosses all 16 mains, you start over and end under, so naturally on the next one you'd start over and again end under, which gives you your alternating weave pattern.

Just remember this. The top and bottom 3 crosses will start and end the same as each other, the rest will alternate start and finishes. I know it may still sound complex, but do your first cross and when you finish it and start the next one, ask yourself what would happen if you didn't start the same way you finished the precious one? Because the next cross now has another main it goes over on the starting side, if you didn't start the same way as you finished, the second weave wouldn't be alternate from the previous one and you wouldn't get your weave pattern.

Doing a two-piece should be no different, just tie off and weave the same way as I said above.

 

[Irvin]

...Of course, the top two strings and the bottom two strings do not "over under" correctly. I actually thought about this before starting, but then failed to make any adjustment.

Do you just count grommets and adjust for the last 2 crosses at top and bottom? Instead of starting the cross as over then under, do you start the first and last two as under then over?

I hope I am being clear. Thanks in advance for your help.

Count the mains you have to weave through and divide by two if odd start by going under the first main if even start over (or vice cersa.)

For example if your racket skips 7$9 top and bottom the top cross goes through 12 mains 12/2 - even start over. The second cross goes through 14 mains 14/2 - odd start under. Next group of crosses go though 16 mains 16/2 - even start over.

If your racket skips 8 head and throat the top cross goes through 14 mains 14/2 - odd start under then when you go through the second cross and 16 mains 16/2 - even start over.