2023 ITA Summer Circuit

[LOBALOT]

Does anyone know what has happened with the 2023 ITA Summer Circuit?

The past few years it used UniersalTennis for signup to the events and if I recall correctly it was sponsored by them. They were very well run and there were many options for college kids to get summer matches in.

This year when you click on the link it takes the user to the USTA web site. There are way fewer events, some long standing sites are no longer participating, etc.

In our section there was an event every weekend. Now, the tournaments are held every other week in our section. If you want to play on a particular weekend you may need to travel halfway across the country to play. There were some sites that were originally listed for 2023 and they have been taken down and are no longer hosting an event.

Does anyone know the scoop?

I just get the sense the the USTA got involved and with that they imposed some site rules for hosting an event or fees, this sort of thing.

 

[jcgatennismom]

Well there are 2 competing summer circuits- the one run by UTR https://www.universaltennis.com/pages/college-circuits and the ITA one. I think UTR is hosting 40+ events and ITA 49. All the UTR events are prize $1000-$2000 provided there is at least a 32 draw. A few of the ITA events are prize $ but I think the winner gets $500. For the ITA events, players have to pay $35 for a summer membership. However, the ITA/USTA events have a $70 entry fee vs $90-$100 for UTR. I believe there is a single draw for UTR circuit event (change from past) while the ITA events have an A and B draw which is better for development. There are also UTR PTT events for UTR 12+ players with a $40 entry fee and guaranteed $400 payout ($3K for winner) if player completes all matches (this could have change slightly-that fees/payouts based on '22). ITA events are seeded and selected based on WTN while UTR are based on UTR.

The players who think they have a chance of winning $$$ will probably chose UTR over ITA. I would expect TDs hosting UTR events will get a better payout after UsTA/ITA get a cut of fees for the ITA events. I assume there are less ITA events as former ITA/UTR hosts decided to stay with UTR platform.

Overall this battle between USTA and UTR hurts players. There may be more events but there are bigger spreads in rankings/ratings between registrants and less competitive matches. In past years, the most popular UTR/ITA events had 3-4 draws of 16-32 with the A draw at P5 campuses attracting some UTR 12s. The high level collegians are of course playing either Futures, Challengers or UTR PTT events. The summer circuit used to be a great place for collegians of all divisions and juniors to play. There are so many options including USTA and/or UTR hosted prize $ events (outside PTT tour), that parents and players will have to research what is the best option. Also there will be Wildcard tourneys for WCs into Futures, 250s Qualis, etc this summer.

With gas and hotel prices up, I wonder if there is less a market for all these events. To some degree, the newer UTR events-some of which are cheaper than USTA- may draw HS playing students who never participated in USTA events. Juniors may also choose UTR events if they think their UTR ranking is more accurate than their WTN ranking. Of course juniors also have National Clay and HCs this summer plus Nat Team and lower national and sectional events to choose from. Both ITA and UTR summer circuits are open to juniors and adults.

Is UTR still fairly accurate? I know ITA results are no longer automatically submitted to UTR, but is UTR scraping them in? WTN only includes USTA/ITF/ITA events-no events on UTR platform. I am unclear on the accuracy of WTN for college players as my son has 2 WTN rankings-one as a US player from USTA/ITF Future events (3.8) and one from college events as a Brit (5.3-go figure how that happened). Since he is out of college now, if he ever plays an event seeded by WTN, he will be happy to use his US WTN-LOL.

 

[LOBALOT]

Well there are 2 competing summer circuits- the one run by UTR https://www.universaltennis.com/pages/college-circuits and the ITA one. I think UTR is hosting 40+ events and ITA 49. All the UTR events are prize $1000-$2000 provided there is at least a 32 draw. A few of the ITA events are prize $ but I think the winner gets $500. For the ITA events, players have to pay $35 for a summer membership. However, the ITA/USTA events have a $70 entry fee vs $90-$100 for UTR. I believe there is a single draw for UTR circuit event (change from past) while the ITA events have an A and B draw which is better for development. There are also UTR PTT events for UTR 12+ players with a $40 entry fee and guaranteed $400 payout ($3K for winner) if player completes all matches (this could have change slightly-that fees/payouts based on '22). ITA events are seeded and selected based on WTN while UTR are based on UTR.

The players who think they have a chance of winning $$$ will probably chose UTR over ITA. I would expect TDs hosting UTR events will get a better payout after UsTA/ITA get a cut of fees for the ITA events. I assume there are less ITA events as former ITA/UTR hosts decided to stay with UTR platform.

Overall this battle between USTA and UTR hurts players. There may be more events but there are bigger spreads in rankings/ratings between registrants and less competitive matches. In past years, the most popular UTR/ITA events had 3-4 draws of 16-32 with the A draw at P5 campuses attracting some UTR 12s. The high level collegians are of course playing either Futures, Challengers or UTR PTT events. The summer circuit used to be a great place for collegians of all divisions and juniors to play. There are so many options including USTA and/or UTR hosted prize $ events (outside PTT tour), that parents and players will have to research what is the best option. Also there will be Wildcard tourneys for WCs into Futures, 250s Qualis, etc this summer.

With gas and hotel prices up, I wonder if there is less a market for all these events. To some degree, the newer UTR events-some of which are cheaper than USTA- may draw HS playing students who never participated in USTA events. Juniors may also choose UTR events if they think their UTR ranking is more accurate than their WTN ranking. Of course juniors also have National Clay and HCs this summer plus Nat Team and lower national and sectional events to choose from. Both ITA and UTR summer circuits are open to juniors and adults.

Is UTR still fairly accurate? I know ITA results are no longer automatically submitted to UTR, but is UTR scraping them in? WTN only includes USTA/ITF/ITA events-no events on UTR platform. I am unclear on the accuracy of WTN for college players as my son has 2 WTN rankings-one as a US player from USTA/ITF Future events (3.8) and one from college events as a Brit (5.3-go figure how that happened). Since he is out of college now, if he ever plays an event seeded by WTN, he will be happy to use his US WTN-LOL.

Right, I was checking out the UTR college circuit. Thanks for the heads up as I see one that used to be an ITA and is now a UTR event. Thanks!

 

[Nostradamus]

where is the schedule ? what cities are they playing in ?

 

[FSUFan]

My son is headed to the event at Duke this weekend which is a UTR College Circuit. This event has already got 75 registrants. We played the UTR College Circuit at Georgia Gwinnett last weekend and it had a big draw as well. The nice thing about the UTR College Circuits is they offer prize money and are very well run. You don't have to pay an ITA Summer membership either so we have decided to stay playing the UTR events. It looks like UTR has 6 circuit events this weekend. We have found that the UTR rating is way more accurate as the WTN is a bit of a joke. The link below is the Duke one:

Tennis & Pickleball Ratings & Events | UTR Sports

Find tennis and pickleball events, leagues, and tournaments near you. Get your free UTR Rating and UTR Pickleball Rating (UTR-P) within minutes.

app.universaltennis.com

 

[LOBALOT]

My son is headed to the event at Duke this weekend which is a UTR College Circuit. This event has already got 75 registrants. We played the UTR College Circuit at Georgia Gwinnett last weekend and it had a big draw as well. The nice thing about the UTR College Circuits is they offer prize money and are very well run. You don't have to pay an ITA Summer membership either so we have decided to stay playing the UTR events. It looks like UTR has 6 circuit events this weekend. The link below is the Duke one:

Tennis & Pickleball Ratings & Events | UTR Sports

Find tennis and pickleball events, leagues, and tournaments near you. Get your free UTR Rating and UTR Pickleball Rating (UTR-P) within minutes.

app.universaltennis.com

That is funny. I was just looking at this same event and the Georgia Gwinnett one. Also saw Baylor, Norman OK, etc.

The problem is these all would require a significant flight from the middle of the west.

The only ones I see remotely nearby are Northwestern University and Holy Cross/Notre Dame. I know Northwestern runs a fine event.

It seems that these UTR College Circuit events are predominately everyplace but the middle of the west.

 

[jcgatennismom]

That is funny. I was just looking at this same event and the Georgia Gwinnett one. Also saw Baylor, Norman OK, etc.

The problem is these all would require a significant flight from the middle of the west.

The only ones I see remotely nearby are Northwestern University and Holy Cross/Notre Dame. I know Northwestern runs a fine event.

It seems that these UTR College Circuit events are predominately everyplace but the middle of the west.

Here are some Mid-west tourneys you may have missed:
https://playtennis.usta.com/Competi...Overview/9c880a2e-904a-4acb-9caa-f999b0fa52a7 Tourney for WC into Decatur IL Future MD so should attract college players. Unfortunately I think this is the same weekend as ITA circuit at Mich State
https://playtennis.usta.com/Competi...Overview/75cb1668-f0b0-4d70-a0a4-c13a28c97dd1 August USTA prize $ in Wisc $2500 to winner but lower amounts from QFs on

There used to be an USTA prize $ summer tourney in Toledo that attracted collegians from Michigan but maybe they are not hosting it this year. You can check to see if it moved to UTR platform. At least your son can play ITA circuits at Mich State and Notre Dame if he is looking into Mid-west options. There may be additional WC tourneys for Future WCs on the UTR platform-the one above was on USTA-there are 3 Futures in IL this summer. Even if your son has no interest in playing Futures, any WC tourneys could provide competitive matches, albeit single elimination. Or as an alternate without any ITF points, he would have a decent chance on getting in Qualis but he would have to purchase ITF membership now-registration ends for Futures around 3 weeks ahead of events. There are also Futures in Pittsburgh and Rochester this summer which could be drivable depending on where you are in Mid-west

 

[LOBALOT]

Here are some Mid-west tourneys you may have missed:
https://playtennis.usta.com/Competi...Overview/9c880a2e-904a-4acb-9caa-f999b0fa52a7 Tourney for WC into Decatur IL Future MD so should attract college players. Unfortunately I think this is the same weekend as ITA circuit at Mich State
https://playtennis.usta.com/Competi...Overview/75cb1668-f0b0-4d70-a0a4-c13a28c97dd1 August USTA prize $ in Wisc $2500 to winner but lower amounts from QFs on

There used to be an USTA prize $ summer tourney in Toledo that attracted collegians from Michigan but maybe they are not hosting it this year. You can check to see if it moved to UTR platform. At least your son can play ITA circuits at Mich State and Notre Dame if he is looking into Mid-west options. There may be additional WC tourneys for Future WCs on the UTR platform-the one above was on USTA-there are 3 Futures in IL this summer. Even if your son has no interest in playing Futures, any WC tourneys could provide competitive matches, albeit single elimination. Or as an alternate without any ITF points, he would have a decent chance on getting in Qualis but he would have to purchase ITF membership now-registration ends for Futures around 3 weeks ahead of events. There are also Futures in Pittsburgh and Rochester this summer which could be drivable depending on where you are in Mid-west

Wow, thank you so much for sharing as I did not see these events. Thank you very much. Very helpful!

The Michigan State ITA is a very good event as you indicate attracting a pretty good field of players.

 

[LOBALOT]

So this WTN switch for ITA events is going to be interesting from what I am seeing. There are some really good high UTR college players with oddly low WTNs and there are some really low UTR kids (like 7.5 UTR) with really high WTNs (like 10 WTN). It is going to be interesting to see how are the tournament directors and ITA going to reconcile this?

You can't have 12 UTRs playing 5 UTRs in the bottom draws of these events because their WTN is not correct.

You can't have 7.5 UTRs seeded in the top brackets with 12 UTRs.

Has anyone seen what other events have done?

 

[FSUFan]

So this WTN switch for ITA events is going to be interesting from what I am seeing. There are some really good high UTR college players with oddly low WTNs and there are some really low UTR kids (like 7.5 UTR) with really high WTNs (like 10 WTN). It is going to be interesting to see how are the tournament directors and ITA going to reconcile this?

You can't have 12 UTRs playing 5 UTRs in the bottom draws of these events because their WTN is not correct.

You can't have 7.5 UTRs seeded in the top brackets with 12 UTRs.

Has anyone seen what other events have done?

WTN is a train wreck and is nowhere close to being accurate. My son played the UTR College Circuit at Duke and the event ran smooth since it was on the UTR platform. My guess is they will have to revert back to UTR for seeding for the ITA events as WTN is comical at this point.

 

[epaige]

My son is headed to the event at Duke this weekend which is a UTR College Circuit. This event has already got 75 registrants. We played the UTR College Circuit at Georgia Gwinnett last weekend and it had a big draw as well. The nice thing about the UTR College Circuits is they offer prize money and are very well run. You don't have to pay an ITA Summer membership either so we have decided to stay playing the UTR events. It looks like UTR has 6 circuit events this weekend. We have found that the UTR rating is way more accurate as the WTN is a bit of a joke. The link below is the Duke one:

Tennis & Pickleball Ratings & Events | UTR Sports

Find tennis and pickleball events, leagues, and tournaments near you. Get your free UTR Rating and UTR Pickleball Rating (UTR-P) within minutes.

app.universaltennis.com

We?

 

[LOBALOT]

WTN is a train wreck and is nowhere close to being accurate. My son played the UTR College Circuit at Duke and the event ran smooth since it was on the UTR platform. My guess is they will have to revert back to UTR for seeding for the ITA events as WTN is comical at this point.

I agree it is crazy. I want to protect these kids privacy but the one kid I am highlighting is probably one of the better college players in his division in the country and it looks like he will be in the bottom bracket playing with 14 year old kids. I would guess he is probably going to say to heck with this.

The other kid played lower part of the singles lineup on a middle of the road D3 school and will be seeded in the top draw.

UTR worked so well as an assessment / comparative tool of junior and college players. I don't understand why the USTA had to mess with a good thing.

 

[andfor]

We?

Many of us completely understand your question. However, adults and juniors can play ITA events if they buy the membership, right?

Maybe FSUFan also played the event. Although highly unlikely wanted to throw it out there.

 

[LOBALOT]

Many of us completely understand your question. However, adults and juniors can play ITA events if they buy the membership, right?

Maybe FSUFan also played the event. Although highly unlikely wanted to throw it out there.

Of course they can. However, the rating is meant as a guide in order to set up several brackets of similar skilled players and also acceptance is based on the rating so that players that really shouldn't be in the field aren't (They indicate this right on the tournament pages for all the ITAs.).

However, using WTN it that is not going to produce this result.

 

[andfor]

Of course they can. However, the rating is meant as a guide in order to set up several brackets of similar skilled players and also acceptance is based on the rating so that players that really shouldn't be in the field aren't (They indicate this right on the tournament pages for all the ITAs.).

However, using WTN it that is not going to produce this result.

My comment was directed specifically to the following question. "We"?

In junior/parent tennis circles, some tennis aficionados find that a parent or coach using the term "we" when discussing their players participation in a tournament to be in poor taste for many reasons.

 

[FSUFan]

My comment was directed specifically to the following question. "We"?

In junior/parent tennis circles, some tennis aficionados find that a parent or coach using the term "we" when discussing their players participation in a tournament to be in poor taste for many reasons.

Didn’t play the event myself, “we” was referring more to my son’s academy. Sorry for the confusion. The players in the academy (not we) simply prefer the UTR circuits since the participants rating is accurate unlike WTN.

 

[andfor]

Didn’t play the event myself, “we” was referring more to my son’s academy. Sorry for the confusion. The players in the academy (not we) simply prefer the UTR circuits since the participants rating is accurate unlike WTN.

All the best to your boy and his tennis!

 

[ClarkC]

So this WTN switch for ITA events is going to be interesting from what I am seeing. There are some really good high UTR college players with oddly low WTNs and there are some really low UTR kids (like 7.5 UTR) with really high WTNs (like 10 WTN). It is going to be interesting to see how are the tournament directors and ITA going to reconcile this?

You can't have 12 UTRs playing 5 UTRs in the bottom draws of these events because their WTN is not correct.

You can't have 7.5 UTRs seeded in the top brackets with 12 UTRs.

Has anyone seen what other events have done?

I am not sure, based on the language used by several posters in this discussion, if everyone is aware that lower WTN rankings are better than higher WTN rankings (e.g. 8.0 is better than 12.0). Opposite of UTR.

 

[LOBALOT]

I am not sure, based on the language used by several posters in this discussion, if everyone is aware that lower WTN rankings are better than higher WTN rankings (e.g. 8.0 is better than 12.0). Opposite of UTR.

The tournament directors should know how WTN works and probably the screw ball TDM app does the work for them. Anyway.... They say they are following WTN but in the end they are not. They are using UTR.

Moreover, there are no seeds because it will be obvious they are not using WTN.

Typical USTA.

It will be fun. I really enjoy watching the college kids play so from a parent (we) perspective it will be a fun tournament to watch.

 

[jcgatennismom]

So this WTN switch for ITA events is going to be interesting from what I am seeing. There are some really good high UTR college players with oddly low WTNs and there are some really low UTR kids (like 7.5 UTR) with really high WTNs (like 10 WTN). It is going to be interesting to see how are the tournament directors and ITA going to reconcile this?

You can't have 12 UTRs playing 5 UTRs in the bottom draws of these events because their WTN is not correct.

You can't have 7.5 UTRs seeded in the top brackets with 12 UTRs.

Has anyone seen what other events have done?

UTR is missing college results esp from May, so the result of this infighting is no reliable ranking system tho UTR is better than WTN. I know your son plays D3 so I looked at some May D3 results. I checked James Hopper as he was the 1st d3 player to come to mind. Only 2/7 matches he played in May are on UTR. The opponent he lost to in D3 NCAAs was Thomas Yu who is a utR 11.xx. He reached the SFs of D3 singles NCAAs and none of his matches are on UTR including his win vs Hopper. Now Hopper is playing Futures and UTR PTT events so his UTR is probably accurate with those events, but players like Yu could be .5 to 1.0 underrated with missing high level matches. Any player who played for a lower team or lower in the lineup but who really shined in NCAA singles events is probably underrated due to missed matches.

Hope your son enjoys the tournament. For current collegians who arent transferring or turning pro in future, summer tourneys are more for keeping up skills and possibly earning some $$$. However inaccurate rankings can affect seeding or placement in the right draw for tourneys with multiple draws. I do hope TDs have some discretion. No one wants the travel expense for a noncompetitive tourney.

 

[LOBALOT]

UTR is missing college results esp from May, so the result of this infighting is no reliable ranking system tho UTR is better than WTN. I know your son plays D3 so I looked at some May D3 results. I checked James Hopper as he was the 1st d3 player to come to mind. Only 2/7 matches he played in May are on UTR. The opponent he lost to in D3 NCAAs was Thomas Yu who is a utR 11.xx. He reached the SFs of D3 singles NCAAs and none of his matches are on UTR including his win vs Hopper. Now Hopper is playing Futures and UTR PTT events so his UTR is probably accurate with those events, but players like Yu could be .5 to 1.0 underrated with missing high level matches. Any player who played for a lower team or lower in the lineup but who really shined in NCAA singles events is probably underrated due to missed matches.

Hope your son enjoys the tournament. For current collegians who arent transferring or turning pro in future, summer tourneys are more for keeping up skills and possibly earning some $$$. However inaccurate rankings can affect seeding or placement in the right draw for tourneys with multiple draws. I do hope TDs have some discretion. No one wants the travel expense for a noncompetitive tourney.

100 Percent on the summer and just for skills. They are pretty laid back actually but it is just too bad things are all a mess right now as it is the college kids that this is about and what the governing bodies are there to support.

 

[LiamMiguel]

Playing the ITA at Wake Forest this coming weekend! Hoping for a good weekend, first tournament back since I tore my meniscus.

The WTN thing is weird, just seems like USTA and UTR have some odd thing against each other. I personally don’t like it, even though once I got into college I stopped using it, UTR seems like a better way to go. There’s an actual large sample size now and it covers all tournaments. None of my college matches (I think) got into WTN. WTN is gonna have the same problem as UTR did for a couple years at the start where the algorithm is all messed up.

 

[LOBALOT]

Playing the ITA at Wake Forest this coming weekend! Hoping for a good weekend, first tournament back since I tore my meniscus.

The WTN thing is weird, just seems like USTA and UTR have some odd thing against each other. I personally don’t like it, even though once I got into college I stopped using it, UTR seems like a better way to go. There’s an actual large sample size now and it covers all tournaments. None of my college matches (I think) got into WTN. WTN is gonna have the same problem as UTR did for a couple years at the start where the algorithm is all messed up.

Have fun Liam. You know I saw you and your team play this year. You have a very nice campus. We stayed at the Inn right there next to the courts.

 

[LiamMiguel]

Have fun Liam. You know I saw you and your team play this year. You have a very nice campus. We stayed at the Inn right there next to the courts.

Campus is beautiful ain't it. Same with the inn.

Must've watched before I had the meniscus tear, I've been so on and off this spring season with injuries...wish it was the fall season again haha

 

[LOBALOT]

Campus is beautiful ain't it. Same with the inn.

Must've watched before I had the meniscus tear, I've been so on and off this spring season with injuries...wish it was the fall season again haha

You didn't play. You warmed up I believe but did not play in the match. You watched from the stands. Very nice tennis complex too.

Yes, neat unique campus. The Inn is nice too. The food was not great but that is OK.

 

[LiamMiguel]

You didn't play. You warmed up I believe but did not play in the match. You watched from the stands. Very nice tennis complex too.

Yes, neat unique campus. The Inn is nice too. The food was not great but that is OK.

Yeah, a lot of students like the food at the Inn, I’m not a fan and i’m not spending $20 on something I could get somewhere else for less. Glad you liked the complex! Apparently, we’re in the process of developing a 12 court indoor center somewhere so.

Also, very surprised you didn’t see me doing photography during the match. I didn’t shoot only one match this entire year haha

 

[LOBALOT]

Yeah, a lot of students like the food at the Inn, I’m not a fan and i’m not spending $20 on something I could get somewhere else for less. Glad you liked the complex! Apparently, we’re in the process of developing a 12 court indoor center somewhere so.

Also, very surprised you didn’t see me doing photography during the match. I didn’t shoot only one match this entire year haha

I heard that you were building the indoor complex. I saw the indoor court building from the outside and it looked old but not a lot of schools have an indoor complex so old or new it is a privilege to have courts there.

I didn't see you snapping pictures but I was wandering around a lot watching this court and that.

 

[LOBALOT]

I was talking with one of the players at the event I referenced and they had spotted the same WTN issues and called the tournament director prior to the event and the director commented that they obviously could not use WTN and so applied some other factors in setting up the brackets which one can certainly understand. I do find it funny though that the USTA could not use the their own rating system for their own events.

 

[Nostradamus]

Any Stanford players playing in this thing ?

 

[LOBALOT]

Any Stanford players playing in this thing ?

I think there was one but lost in qualies.

Whoops that was the 75 level challenger I am not sure that would garner entry.

 

[Nostradamus]

I think there was one but lost in qualies.

Whoops that was the 75 level challenger I am not sure that would garner entry.

Tour Vet Escovedo giving the warm welcome to Ethan Quinn, showing him how the tennis is played in the Tour. Escovedo is one of the nicest guys on the tour , comes from poor hard working family, wishing him well, and hope he gets back to top 100. but in the meantime, giving the college dude a lesson in Tour tennis

| * (Player Id) | ATP Tour | Tennis

ATP Challenger Tour streaming match

www.atptour.com

 

[andfor]

Tour Vet Escovedo giving the warm welcome to Ethan Quinn, showing him how the tennis is played in the Tour. Escovedo is one of the nicest guys on the tour , comes from poor hard working family, wishing him well, and hope he gets back to top 100. but in the meantime, giving the college dude a lesson in Tour tennis

| * (Player Id) | ATP Tour | Tennis

ATP Challenger Tour streaming match

www.atptour.com

Quinn beat him less than a year ago at the US Open qualies. Something tells me you would know this if Quinn went to Standford and your post would be the complete opposite. Anyways, Escobedo (aka Escovedo) up a break in set one. I'll still stick with Quinn for the win.

 

[andfor]

| * (Player Id) | ATP Tour | Tennis

ATP Challenger Tour streaming match

www.atptour.com

Interesting score lines. Looks like they've traded lessons and are now locked up in a 3rd set, 1-1.

 

[Sureshot]

Interesting score lines. Looks like they've traded lessons and are now locked up in a 3rd set, 1-1.

Quinn takes it 6-4 in the third. Basavareddy taking on Stevie Johnson. Michelsen looking good. All outstanding young talents

 

[texrunner]

Yeah, a lot of students like the food at the Inn, I’m not a fan and i’m not spending $20 on something I could get somewhere else for less. Glad you liked the complex! Apparently, we’re in the process of developing a 12 court indoor center somewhere so.

Also, very surprised you didn’t see me doing photography during the match. I didn’t shoot only one match this entire year haha

Eat at the golf shop! Great food and not too expensive! YSR!

 

[LiamMiguel]

Eat at the golf shop! Great food and not too expensive! YSR!

I always do especially when I play a round with some teammates. Always get the EQB burger or the Pimento cheese fries and if it’s a hot day, I grab a milkshake.

 

[LiamMiguel]

I played the NC State ITA and it was incredibly well run. It had a great turnout of players too on both men’s and women’s brackets. A much better experience than the UNC Charlotte tournament. Lots of scheduling issues and loads of withdrawals. I ended up only playing one match…

 

[brucewaschuk]

Do

the USTA got involved and with that they imposed some site rules for hosting an event or fees, this sort of thing.

I just get the sense the the USTA got involved and with that they imposed some site rules for hosting an event or fees, this sort of thing.

No. That did not happen.

 

[brucewaschuk]

The summer circuit used to be a great place for collegians of all divisions and juniors to play.

It still is.

 

[brucewaschuk]

I am unclear on the accuracy of WTN

"we find one rating does not dominate the other. For tennis coaches interested in organizing practices to ensure play parity, tournament directors accepting and seeding players, and college coaches screening potential recruits our evidence suggests that either measure is equivalent in terms of assessing player skill. For academics who use player ratings when studying the determinants of tennis player skill (18) or developing tennis handicaps in junior tennis as a function of player skill differences (4), our findings imply that using either UTR or WTN ratings as a proxy for player skill is appropriate."

See The Sport Journal for complete article: https://thesportjournal.org/article...-the-2022-usta-junior-national-championships/

 

[brucewaschuk]

my son has 2 WTN rankings

You can request the ITF merge the two accounts in order to get a more accurate WTN player rating. This is easy to do at https://wtn.zendesk.com/hc/en-gb/requests/new

 

[brucewaschuk]

None of my college matches (I think) got into WTN.

All college matches reported to the ITA system by coaches & SIDs get added automatically to the WTN system.

 

[LOBALOT]

No. That did not happen.

It certainly did. They ditched WTN and went with UTR and the tournament directors confirmed it. The WTN data was just garbage especially early on this summer and they couldn't use it for their events for a good portion of the ITA season.

They ditched WTN at Butler, they ditched it at Notre Dame, they ditched it at MSU, and they ditched a majority of it at Grand Valley.

Take a look at who had the "best WTN" in the draws and what bracket the players ended up in. In those events the players ended up in the B, C, and D brackets.

That WTN was unusable. The funny thing was one of the players that had the best WTN in those events was even joking that he was happy they didn't use it.

 

[brucewaschuk]

It certainly did. They ditched WTN and went with UTR and the tournament directors confirmed it. The WTN data was just garbage especially early on this summer and they couldn't use it for their events for a good portion of the ITA season.

They ditched WTN at Butler, they ditched it at Notre Dame, they ditched it at MSU, and they ditched a majority of it at Grand Valley.

Take a look at who had the "best WTN" in the draws and what bracket the players ended up in. In those events the players ended up in the B, C, and D brackets.

That WTN was unusable. The funny thing was one of the players that had the best WTN in those events was even joking that he was happy they didn't use it.

The comment was made "I just get the sense the USTA got involved and with that they imposed some site rules for hosting an event or fees, this sort of thing."

That did not happen.

 

[LOBALOT]

The comment was made "I just get the sense the USTA got involved and with that they imposed some site rules for hosting an event or fees, this sort of thing."

That did not happen.

Got it. Sorry for my confusion.

The tournament director I spoke to indicated they switched to UTR from ITA as they felt there were less limitations for the players so in that sense it was the case.

I will speak with the other tournament director as they canceled their ITA in it's entirety after hosting for many years so I am not sure why you feel it didn't happen.

 

[FSUFan]

It certainly did. They ditched WTN and went with UTR and the tournament directors confirmed it. The WTN data was just garbage especially early on this summer and they couldn't use it for their events for a good portion of the ITA season.

They ditched WTN at Butler, they ditched it at Notre Dame, they ditched it at MSU, and they ditched a majority of it at Grand Valley.

Take a look at who had the "best WTN" in the draws and what bracket the players ended up in. In those events the players ended up in the B, C, and D brackets.

That WTN was unusable. The funny thing was one of the players that had the best WTN in those events was even joking that he was happy they didn't use it.

It definitely has happened as many of the events went back to using the utr rating for seeding that my son played. Appears Bruce works for the ITA which supports WTN (which is fine but let’s not discredit accurate information). At the end of the day, I’m sure WTN will be more accurate with time but UTR is by far the superior metric as of now. It appears we will just live with 2 ratings in the sport.

 

[brucewaschuk]

Appears Bruce works for the ITA which supports WTN

I used to be the CEO of a startup called Universal Tennis and am proud of the things we accomplished with UTR. A new ownership group now runs the company. There have been some misunderstandings about ITA's backing of WTN. I wanted to take this chance to clear up some of those misunderstandings.

"I’m sure WTN will be more accurate with time"

Agreed.

 

[LOBALOT]

I used to be the CEO of a startup called Universal Tennis and am proud of the things we accomplished with UTR. A new ownership group now runs the company. There have been some misunderstandings about ITA's backing of WTN. I wanted to take this chance to clear up some of those misunderstandings.

"I’m sure WTN will be more accurate with time"

Agreed.

So given that other than the obvious alignment with the USTA do you mind sharing your opinion as to why ITA switched from Universal Tennis/UTR to USTA/WTN for the summer ITA season?

I agree that WTN will probably be more accurate with time/more data.

 

[brucewaschuk]

So given that other than the obvious alignment with the USTA do you mind sharing your opinion as to why ITA switched from Universal Tennis/UTR to USTA/WTN for the summer ITA season?

I agree that WTN will probably be more accurate with time/more data.

When I was the CEO of UTR, I thought it was essential to partner with the ITA so that we could collect Summer Circuit results, which helped to close the ratings gap between junior players and college players.

It seems like you are assuming ITA switched partnerships, when it may have been UTR that chose to end the partnership.

 

[LOBALOT]

When I was the CEO of UTR, I thought it was essential to partner with the ITA so that we could collect Summer Circuit results, which helped to close the ratings gap between junior players and college players.

It seems like you are assuming ITA switched partnerships, when it may have been UTR that chose to end the partnership.

That is a great point I didn't think about. So then as someone who claims to be in the know why don't you elaborate.