4.5-5.0 Match vs pusher
- Thread starter StasTs
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Dragy
Legend
"ЗАЧЕМ!" is the greatest tennis motto, and I'm proud you carry this with you into your clashes! Your ground game is solid with high-quality striking. Serve, although not bad, is most promising area for improvement. Particularly developing spin serves, kicking serves would arm you with more weapons.
Playing against this type of opponents - great movers - you possibly could better pinning him to place instead of running him around. Wait for better ball, then apply your attacks from inside the court.
Another idea is to bring him in with low slices - moving great left-right, is he same good front-back?
Congrats on the tough win!
Playing against this type of opponents - great movers - you possibly could better pinning him to place instead of running him around. Wait for better ball, then apply your attacks from inside the court.
Another idea is to bring him in with low slices - moving great left-right, is he same good front-back?
Congrats on the tough win!
Those are definitely foot faults
"НУ ПОЧЕМУ?" is the best
Because of shoulder injury, serve is not at best state
But at the end of 2nd set, I've got several good ones. As for other suggestions, there is huge difference between forehand and backhand of my opponent. From backhand, he make shorter balls much more often, but I have to move him first, because otherwise he plays almost only forehand. And I can't really slice on high balls he's using most of the time.
Dragy
Legend
Well if you place a ball to the BH corner or a tad over sideline, I’d be ok if he runs around and finds himself in the alley. Can be a pattern to exploit. I mean, there’s a difference between moving a good runner around, and actually hitting to the open space after getting him off the court - just another couple of meter may be distinguishing. And if he plays pushy game and does not hurt you, you can really work calmly on setting and developing that pressure towards his BH corner until a really good chance appears to attack - at 3rd or 4th or whatever ball. You’ve shown you can take advantage of weaker replies - it’s more about how to get one more reliably and with controlled risk/energy burn."НУ ПОЧЕМУ?" is the best
Because of shoulder injury, serve is not at best state
As for other suggestions, there is huge difference between forehand and backhand of my opponent. From backhand, he make shorter balls much more often, but I have to move him first, because otherwise he plays almost only forehand. And I can't really slice on high balls he's using most of the time.
It's exactly how I've played when was behind and how I've got win at the end. 3-4 shots to get short ball that I could exploit with attack. But it's BORING
Dragy
Legend
Playing a pusher-style opponent is boring anyway, unless your skill advantage is good enough to play ton of net points changing up with screamer winners or touch drop shots... face one dangerous and fast, and it’s a work to be done, and not failed.It's exactly how I've played when was behind and how I've got win at the end. 3-4 shots to get short ball that I could exploit with attack. But it's BORING
mental midget
Hall of Fame
not to be nitpicky here but this isn't 4.5 and certainly isn't 5.0 level play, by a long shot. anyway though on the whole pusher thing, best thing to do is have patience and treat it like a consistency drill until they give you something you can attack with a high percentage play. once you realize they're not going to 'hurt' you off the ground you can relax and just have fun making them run around.
It's 3.7-3.8 (me) vs 4.0-4.1 (opponent) ITN (Austria). Based on all conversion tables I've found so far it's 4.5-5.0. Examples here (ITN or AT-ITN):
https://www.scribd.com/document/73338927/ITN-USTA-Rating-Chart-Comparison
FiReFTW
Legend
On this forum even Federer is 5.0 tops, so you should feel proud.
Where are you from exactly?
F
FRV3
Guest
I watched the first couple minutes. Seemed pretty high level to me. Though you might be doing something wrong on the first serve if it sometimes doesn't even reach the net.
Serving like this is more common in Europe and never gets called in a chaired match...drives americans crazy because it would be called by the chair or roving official in the states. It doesnt bother me as it seems like the norm.
Linz, Austria.
Because of shoulder injury I have to rely more on foots/hips chain then on upper arm. And it's different timing that sometimes ended in such
FiReFTW
Legend
Ah northern austria, thats quite far from me.. but if im ever there maybe we can have a hit.
StringSnapper
Hall of Fame
ahh those first two games hurt to watch.
Your pace wasn't hurting him. Slow courts or slow balls maybe? It's hard to know what to do then, some players just have a distinct advantage in certain situations
Your pace wasn't hurting him. Slow courts or slow balls maybe? It's hard to know what to do then, some players just have a distinct advantage in certain situations
pencilcheck
Hall of Fame
Who is the pusher? Lol to me both of you are not pusher good construction of points, the white shirt beat you by giving you a lot of pressure with his defense. His defense is not bad but also not good, because a well trained high schooler can easily break that kind of defense because it is becoming too predictable.
Your best shot for you to break this kind of defense is to play more drive volley and volley. You need to be more aggressive if you can. In my opinion, both of you can be flagged as pusher depending on the person's definition of pusher. In my opinion, both of you have played well in rec tournament.
Your best shot for you to break this kind of defense is to play more drive volley and volley. You need to be more aggressive if you can. In my opinion, both of you can be flagged as pusher depending on the person's definition of pusher. In my opinion, both of you have played well in rec tournament.
watched the first two games, and the tiebreak of second set.
I find it interesting that your opponent always moves back from after service, and you don't try to drop shot him
also, there were a few occasions when he was at the net, and didn't had to play any volley, as you went for an "all-in" passing shot.
but in general seems like a very solid level to me.
nice forehand!
Drop shots are not my best weapon specifically from middle/high balls.
Being pusher doesn't mean he can't play volley. We know each other weak/strong sides pretty well as being in same club/team. But you're right, I'm preferring "all-in" passing shot to just bringing ball back to volley player.
Thanks.
Hi, I can tell you for a fact that this table is inaccurate. There is a simple parameter that you can use if you want to rate yourself in NTRP terms: Open level is 5.0, high open level is 5.5, low pro level is 6.0. The level expressed in your mach is good recreational tennis but is nowhere near open level.
TennisDawg
Hall of Fame
Great match! I believe you are footfaulting. You don’t serve and volley so I don’t think it changed the outcome of the match. I didn’t watch the entire match so I assume you won. Pushers are tough to play. I would video your serve and change the cause of the foot faults.
Thanks for posting the video. Here in Florida red shirt would be a recently promoted 4.5 (bumped from 4.0). White shirt would be the 4.0 that people hate playing. Red shirt foot faults a lot. White shirt has a 3.5 serve, borderline pancake serve. The scoreline goes to show a computer rating doesn't tell the whole story. Technically speaking, a 4.5 should beat a 4.0 6-0, 6-0. This 7-6, 7-6 scoreline shows that while Red shirt is visually the better player, White shirt holds his own based on a different playing style. Match-up issues are real.
EddieBrock
Hall of Fame
Very interesting match to watch!
Could you take the moonballs out of the air? What about bringing him in?
Could you take the moonballs out of the air? What about bringing him in?
Bender
G.O.A.T.
On these boards every poaster is a certified self-rated 5.5 while everyone else is a 3.0-3.5 regardless of whether they are actually 5.0 or Roger Federer.
pencilcheck
Hall of Fame
Are you a self rated 5.5?
Bender
G.O.A.T.
No, since I don't live in the US and therefore don't go by that system. However, if I were to rate myself I'd rate myself at 4.5 these days (my point of reference is those guys I have beaten who did have ratings that could be translated to NTRP ratings).
I'm with you here. It's difficult to rate in NTRP because apparently it's not fully "rating" but kind of evaluation system. In other countries there is a rating, that calculated based on matches and opponents rating. Close to UTR. Example of such is LK in Germany or ITN in Austria or some other rating systems. There are some guidelines to translate values from one system to another, but clear there are some border cases. Also NTRP has very wide ranges, for example 5.0 term relates to 3.25-4.0 ITN in Austria. This is huge difference between 3.25 and 4.0 that usually ended in like 6:1/6:2 in matches.
It seems to me that these ,,pancake serves" are not really attaked.
Rather neutral returns.
Absolutely. Again, we (me and my opponent) know each other very well. It make no sense for me to aggressive attacking serve with higher risk of error when I can just start point building. He doesn't put me under pressure. I know that I should get better ball for attack then serve after 2-4 top-spins.
that's why I prefer to describe it in %.
If you are ranked, according to whatever system in your country, and you are a player in say top 3%, when there are tens of thousands of players, there is no way that translates into a 3.0 / 3.5 level used as reference on this board.
subsequently you go down, to top 5%, top 10% etc.
I know people are not impressed by someone who is a top 10% in one country, but everyone who actually competes here, as opposed to the mighty keyboard warriors, understands what it takes to reach certain percentile, and what type of players do you face when you are in the bottom 5% and when you are in the top x%.
In this case, I'm at ~2300 by ITN rating in Austria. Total, there are ~76000 people with rating. That means I'm in top ~3%
You make me proud of myself The ITN numbers coming out of that conversion table are ok for Op as 4.5 seems appropriate, but not so for his opponent (the pusher), who isn't clearly a 5.0. One possible reason for his inflated ranking might be that he does a large number of tournaments and matches and picks on purpose opportunities where he can develop his score. Tennis federations love this and incentivize it.
norcal
Legend
Nice playing OP, nice forehand! That court doesn't have much room on the side, doubles would be interesting lol. Pushers/retrievers get downgraded here because they don't have pro looking strokes and everyone hates playing them. Tough matchup and good match (with actual spectators!).
As for translating ratings, look up Matt Lin's videos (forgot his sn here). He is a solid open/5.0 player. Neither OP or his friend is sniffing that level.
As for translating ratings, look up Matt Lin's videos (forgot his sn here). He is a solid open/5.0 player. Neither OP or his friend is sniffing that level.
If you're talking about this Matt Lin
For me it's very similar level. I can't say who would win, probably he on hard and me on clay. Just different courts (hard vs clay) and different play style. I've got similar fast balls matches with multiple winners and plenty of unforced errors
For example here:
FiReFTW
Legend
If you're talking about this Matt Lin
For me it's very similar level. I can't say who would win, probably he on hard and me on clay. Just different courts (hard vs clay) and different play style. I've got similar fast balls matches with multiple winners and plenty of unforced errors
I know you are a very high rec level player, no doubt that you are 4.5, I am from Europe and know ratings here and I also know how someone looks on video vs reality, I also know different surfaces and different styles... however I feel like you are losing your time here, trying to explain yourself, this forum is full of 3.0 players that are ignorant and think they play like 4.0 and never seen themselves on video.
Ive seen countless times how they said someone is 3.0 or 3.5 when he is 4.5 for sure, most people are very ignorant and clueless when it comes to this in general.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Your NTRP rating is determined by match results, not by some person evaluating your skills [exception for self-rates; you have to start somewhere]. So it is a rating system. That there happen to be subjective skills attached to each level is just a guideline. As the countless threads on pushers show, someone could have horrible looking technique and yet be able to compete at a level far higher than what the guidelines suggest.
But if you turned things around, you'd have the same situation: an ITN 4.0 might have a huge corresponding NTRP range. So it all depends on your perspective.
Since UTR is supposedly universal, it makes sense to use it vs regional systems.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Agreed man, just don't bother with criticism from here, it's full of keyboard warriors trying to validate their skill level by dishing out 'critcism'. Good tennis players don't come on here to bag out other people's skills. Only the minority of people comment and speak up so just remember there's a lot of other people that don't share the same sentiment. This subforum should be called Tennis Criticisms/Bullying instead.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
There's value to be gained from the criticism, even if it's not always constructive. You just have to learn how to separate the wheat from the chaff. And what's wheat to me might be chaff to others.
More important is developing a sense of whom to listen to and whom to ignore [just like in life].
Jay_The_Nomad
Professional
Yep. OP looks max 3.5 standard. ITN anyway.
pencilcheck
Hall of Fame
Cool, never played a match on red clay so I don't know the intricacy of playing on those specific conditions. Is it windy? Is it hot? Also what balls were used? are they flat? Those will affect the playing condition greatly.
Anywhoo, great points, but the camera is not having higher refresh rate, the ball looks like a slideshow, it hurts me eyes so much. Also because how the ball are being interpolated, it makes the ball look so much faster than how it is traveling in real life I think.
Anywhoo, great points, but the camera is not having higher refresh rate, the ball looks like a slideshow, it hurts me eyes so much. Also because how the ball are being interpolated, it makes the ball look so much faster than how it is traveling in real life I think.
SlvrDragon50
Semi-Pro
That's a pretty monster forehand you got. But it makes my elbow hurt watching it with all that whipping. I'm surprised how much top spin you're getting with such a compact stroke.
Молодец Станислав! У вас больше терпения чем у меня
ignore the critics here about level. What matters is you won and anyone, who thinks they are better, need to prove it by playing against you.
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