A comfort player's stick

[ears]

Having returned to tennis after a five year lapse, I bought a couple HPS 6.1s last year. I had demo'd a TT Warrior, Radical Ti, Tour 90, and the HPS, and ended up liking the nice balance of swing weight, spin potential, and feel of the 6.1s. Unfortunately, for the last 6 months I've been having serious shoulder problems on my serve every time I play. An opponent I recently played told me that he used to get terrible tennis elbow from the 6.1s and had to switch to something more forgiving (He had a Volkl but I don't know which one). I've tried a few different strings to see if that would help, but it didn't make much difference. I'd never really given much credence to the notion that your stick would cause the pain, but rather that it was due to flaws in stroke and/or motion. But now I'm starting to wonder.

Anyway, I'm thinking of demo'ing some other frames and I'd like a few suggestions. I'm a 4.0-5.0 all courter, I prefer placement over power, and I like an open string pattern for spin potential. Something in a mid to mid plus head size. Can anyone point me in the direction of a nice, arm/shoulder friendly player's stick? Is it simply a matter of finding a more flexible frame, or is there more involved than that? I'm not much into gear for gear's sake, so if I could narrow it down to 3-4 sticks that would be great. Many thanks in advance.

 

[mary fierce]

Have you considered....diagnosis and treatment!!?? You didn't do this activity for 5 years and now describe a "serious" problem. I had a shoulder problem 10 years ago, saw an orthopedist, and got over it after months of physical therapy.
Once you feel better, take another look at the Warrior, a very arm friendly racquet.

 

[16]

estusa pro, lm prestige ms(although it has a dense string pattern), i find the ncode tour 90 a lot more arm friendly than the 6.1's and t90.

 

[Kick Serve]

Volkl Tour 10 MP and Estusa Power Beam.

You know, most shoulder injuries are due to mechanics. Pro player's suffer from shoulder problems all the time. A comfortable player's racquet can help with wrist and elbow problems, but I doubt it'll cure your shoulder. Unfortunately, time off followed by strength training is the only thing that I've found to cure shoulder tendonitis.

 

[thatballwas_IN]

time off followed by strength training is the only thing that I've found to cure shoulder tendonitis

Since I am having some shoulder soreness... I know this to be true. I have stopped playing as many matches, and do light weights and underwater exercises. It helps a lot. I look like a goof in the pool doing my little exercises, but it really helps my shoulder so I don't mind.

REST & 5-10lb weights with lots of reps.. = pain-free shoulder

The rotator cuff area of humans was really not designed for the service motion/overhand throw motion. It really puts wear and tear on the shoulder joint.

 

[hankster]

I played with an HPS 6.1 for a couple of years and liked it very much, but my elbow did not.
After over a year of trying different racquets--Dunlop MW200, Babolat PC, Head Ti.Classic and Yonex RD Ti-80 were the ones I used the most--I recently switched to the Estusa Power Beam Braided. I love the way it plays and so far my elbow does as well. I am a 4.0 player and was as little worried it might be too much of a "player's stick" for me, but I found that no adjustment was necessary. I am beginning to think that once you get used to a 12 ounce plus racquet, it is very hard to transition to a lighter racquet--even if it is only 1/2 ounce.
Hankster

 

[bee]

shoulder

I would try natural gut strings if you've not done so. It can make a big difference over the synthetics. More flex and spring, easier on the joints. I've come to feel that a denser string pattern is somewhat easier on the arm. Heavier racquets are better, of course. The ProKennex 5g might be good for you but you'll want to add lead tape. The Volk c10 Pro (and old racquet) is easy on the arm, but has a kind of mushy feel that I didn't like. I tried out the Prince Diablo midplus recently and it hurt my elbow. Too bad, served great. You know, the Wilson Prostaff Original Midplus might be a good choice for you. Either Wilson Sensation NXT or, preferably, natural gut at the low side of the tension spectrum might give you what your looking for. I play primarily with a Head Classic Midplus strung with Babolat VS 17 Team Gut. I have never had any arm problems with this setup and it's been my primary racquet for about 4 years. True, spin doesn't come quite as easily. But, it's sure got is positive attributes. It's nice and flexy, but so is the old Prostaff midplus (the 95). Taking 600 mg of Ibuprofen (if you can tolerate it) before playing can help. Good luck. Oh, and a hot shower before playing makes things better for me.

Bee

 

[thejerk]

It messed up my shoulder, it plays great but the stiffness will mess you up. The Estusa pbb will do the same, it is just as stiff.
Try the Prestige Classic mid and add about an ounce of weight to it and it will do everything even give you alota spin with half the effort.

 

[barry]

I also had a shoulder problem using tht 6.1, probably why Wilson put it on the retirement list. It was way to stiff and not balanced correctily. I used it for a month, shoulder and arm felt hurt.

If Wilson continues to sell it, they ought to throw in a free tennis elbow strap, and warn players about shoulder injuries.

 

[ears]

Well, thanks for all the great responses. Because my work takes me away from home and the courts for 1 or 2 weeks at a time, my shoulder gets a good bit of time to recover. And since this problem has arisen, I've been consciencious of building upper body strength (light weights, many reps) and of stretching thoroughly before playing. My mechanics are pretty sound; since the serve is the only shot you're guaranteed to get enough time to properly prepare, I take care to have a good toss and a smooth, steady motion. It's not exactly a barn burner, but I can usually place it where I want it to go.

Despite my best efforts though, I seem to be fighting a losing battle. I think I'll try to get in to see a doc next week before I start spending money on rackets.

I'd still like to get some input on this idea; is a racket's flexibility the basic arbiter of it's arm friendliness? Or is it a matter of how 'dampened' it is by use of vibration absorbing technologies. I like the feel and feedback the HPS 6.1 gives me, but could I get the same sort of tactile response from a more flexible racket? Will the power necessarily drop off? And one last question, will a longer racket make a difference either way regarding shoulder pain? Many thanks for all the valuable input.

 

[max]

the racquet matters!

Here's a little story. I used to use a Max 200 G, for about ten or twelve years. And I suffered shoulder pain and I thought it was due to an old high school tennis injury, swinging a T-2000 like crazy.

Well, I went to a dentist. He said I was grinding my teeth. . . was I under stress? As it turned out, the the shoulder pain was causing teeth grinding. I had to hang up my beloved Max 200 Gs! And within the span of two months, the shoulder pain was gone and I could sleep on the right side of my body, for the first time in years!

 

[bee]

flex

Yes, I think that all of the stiff racquets tend to be hard on the arm and shoulder. My stringer and racquet tech said this to me the other day, "The lighter racquets have to be stiff, because otherwise they'd break."

I know what you're going through and it may be more of a problem than I've had, but the heavier, flexible racquet with natural gut strings is the best way to go. Really, I've been down this road.

Even with my sore elbow from trying that Diablo midplus I played with my trusty Head Classic Midplus today with new Babolat VS 17 team gut with string savers, and it was just fantastic.

So, I'll not stray again, I think. Like I said before, the Wilson Prostaff 95 is similar to the racquet I'm playing with but with a more open stirng pattern that may give you more spin.

Interestingly, when the Babolat string savers are placed on my Head Classic MIdplus it seems to help it bight the ball more and play just a little bit stiffer. Thus, negating some of the spring of the gut strings and adding some bite to the dense string pattern.

Today, it was just perfect!

And, if you don't mind the expense, play with a new can of balls each time you go out, and if you want to really induldge yourself and protect your joints open a new can every set. Compared to golf and a lot of other sports, it's not really that expensive. And, if these sort of things can keep you playing and getting the health benefits of the sport, then it's well worth it as far as I'm concerned.
IWe play with ProPenn regular duty balls. buy them by the case. They don't frizz up as quickly as the extra-duty and they move through the air a little faster.

Take a couple of weeks off and come back with some an arm-friendly setup. These things do make a difference.

Bee

 

[BreakPoint]

IMO, shoulder pain in related more to the weight of a racquet than its stiffness. A heavy racquet is more likely to cause shoulder problems especially with repeated serving motions. I'm actually demoing the HPS 6.1 95 right now and although I can serve up bombs with it (and lots of spin, too), I don't think I'll be switiching to it because I just feel that eventually the heavy weight will just ruin my shoulder.

A stiff (and light) racquet is more likely to cause elbow problems because more shock is transmitted to your arm and also the ball will push the racquet around more while your forearm works harder to try and keep the racquet steady.

BTW, lighter racquets have to be stiff not because they would break otherwise but because the weight of the tennis ball does not change whether you are using a heavy or a light racquet. If a light racquet was also flexible, the momentum caused by the impact of the ball would push the racquet around so much that you would not be able to generate much rebound momentum on the ball in the opposite direction. By making the racquet stiff, there's less energy used to flex the racquet and more energy is used to return the ball, making it more powerful. You need to have either mass (weight) or stiffness to get power behind a shot. Imagine trying to hit a 90mph baseball with a light AND flexible wiffle ball bat. No homeruns possible. You can't change the laws of physics (although some companies have tried with "technologies" like Catapult, Woofer, Rollers, Big Grommets, etc.).

Anyway, I also suggest trying a PS 6.0 95. Nice comfortable and flexible frame. Not as much power as the HPS 6.1 but much more feel and control. It swings lighter so it's less likely to cause shoulder problems. I haven't had any after using it for a year and a half.

 

[Steve H.]

ears, I'm not sure whether you got an answer to your question -- generally when people speak of "arm friendly" racquets that means frames that minimize the amount of sudden torque that gets transmitted to the wrist and arm when you hit the ball. Head-light balance will reduce this torque, so will flex, soft strings, and a loose string job.

But shoulder pain often comes from the centripetal force of the actual swinging motion, not from impact. Does your shoulder hurt when you take a swing and don't hit anything? If so, flex, changing strings, etc. won't help you at all; a lighter racquet would but would also increase the shock from impact, see above, and might also encourage you to swing harder, twisting the shoulder more.

I'd agree with mary fierce, take it easy and build up some strength around the rotator cuff -- and maybe also try out some of the time-tested arm-friendly frames like PK 5g, POG oversize, or Volkl C10, all of which play much softer than the 6.1.

 

[James Brown]

i had constant shoulder,elbow and bicep pain. i switched to a 6.0 95 and it seems most of my pain has subsided (granted, my technique has improved), its kinda stiff but headlight as hell. i string with gut. Give it a shot, see if it helps you, it sure helped me.

 

[Steve Huff]

ThatBallWas__IN. Where in VA are you. I'm in Mechanicsville.

stmt@comcast.net

 

[federerer]

In addition to a more flexible racket you might want to adjust your technique a little bit. I used to have some shoulder problems (I probably hurt it while lifting). I found that hitting the ball more out in front made a big difference. Catching it late hurts. Also, on serves, if you toss the ball more in front that is the biggest help. I like to put a lot of topspin on the serve but had a tendency to throw it a bit behind me which caused shoulder pain. I know you said you had good technique but a could of inches more in front could pay huge dividends.

 

[Steve Huff]

Federer is right, especially on the serves. I found that when I let the toss drop too much and made contact with the ball even a little too low, it really hurt my shoulder. And, as I get older, I don't seem to reach up for the ball as well as I did when I was younger. I think that's just something that happens as we get older, as I have noticed it in most of the other players, even the senior pro circuit.