A Must read from Mr Olympia Larry scott about injuries

[ttwarrior1]

...

2 - What If The Pain Won't Go Away?

Sometimes pain is very persistant and still won't go away even with "slow
movement" type exercise therapy. If the pain persists, follow these
rules and your recovery should be much faster.

Rule #1
Once you get injured... everything changes. Forget about your current
rate of progress. Your new goal is to heal the injury. Focus all your
attention on getting better.

Rule #2
Don't lay off... It doens't help. The pain just stays with you... It
doesn't seem to matter how long you lay off. You must actually
work the injury out of the joint. Which leads to rule #3...

Rule #3
Find exercises that do not cause no pain. This is important! When I say
no pain, I mean no pain. Not pain that is tolerable or less than it was, I
mean no pain. You see... pain sets up a histamine reaction which causes
swelling and blocks circulation just like your nose plugs up with allergies...
That's why you take anti-histamines to reduce the swelling, so you can
breath again. Finding pain free exercises gets circulation into the injured
area. Also... the exercise has to be pain free even before you warm
up the joint. Not after.

Rule #4
Don't be fooled by endorphin release. It will mask the pain. Even if you
can't feel it... The injury is still taking place. You must find exercises
that don't cause pain without any warm-up. This will accelerate the
healing tremendously.

Rule #5
After you have once found pain free exercises, use a light resistance
and move very slowly through the exercise. It will stimulate nutrient
rich, healing blood to circulate into the area and sweep out all the
accumulated toxins.

Rule #6
Ice the injured area each night until it goes numb. Your body will sense
the cold and send more warm fresh blood to the injured area. Be
careful you don't over do it and get frostbite.

Rule #7
Take aspirin about every three hours, it is a mild anti-inflammatory
and allegedly thins the blood to aid in penetrating the swollen tissues.
Don't take it before workouts as it will mask pain. You need pain to
tell you when you are re-injuring yourself.

Rule #8
Don't ignore the first signs of pain. Be alert on every exercise. If you
feel a little tinge of pain, stop the exercise and go to something else.
Most of the damage can be avoided if you will be more alert to the
very first signs of pain. I'm talking about joint pain not the lactic
acid pain associated with muscles working.

Rule #9
If you spend time in the Sauna just before your workout and three or
four times during your workout it will increase Growth Hormone release
Remember GH is a heling accelerator. Stay in just long enough to get
warm but not long enough to perspire.

Your friend,
Larry Scott

 

[JRstriker12]

Everything else seems like okay advice, but I have to take issue with #2:

Rule #2
Don't lay off... It doens't help. The pain just stays with you... It
doesn't seem to matter how long you lay off. You must actually
work the injury out of the joint. Which leads to rule #3...

I can see where you may not want to layoff- as in say bed rest. For example, moving and doing strengthening exercises for you back is much better than bed rest.

However, (a least in my case) the back injury was a pulled muscle. If it's an actuall injured joint, (breaks, torn tendons, sprains) there's no such thing as "working" the injury out of the joint. You'd have to rest it until it's pain free and start slowly on building strenght.

That's my 2 cents for what it's worth.

 

[Ronaldo]

Rule #1, go see a doctor in sports medicine

 

[ttwarrior1]

i posted this because i disagree with that. I dont see it listed but he mentions where he recommends a rep speed of around 20 seconds up and 20 seconds down. This will put fresh new healing blood into the muscles and joints. Plus you must ice the joints . You have to do all of what he says , just not part of it.

He also recommends a speed of 6 up and 6 down for around 5 or 6 reps to speed healing as this will help in rehabbing the muscles. I also disagree with how most rehab places train people to heal their injuries. Just because they have a degree means nothing to me

 

[ttwarrior1]

Here is another article, called healing without shrinking

Almost all injuries are injuries of the joints and connective tissue. Hyperplasia doesn’t injure. Hypertrophy does. Lets go back to bench press so you can see what I’m talking about.
Hypertrophy... means going for size so you’re using as heavy a weight as possible. A weight that requires pecs, frontal deltoids and triceps to get the weight up.
When you get so many muscles stressing one joint the joint starts to deteriorate. It isn’t long before it starts to hurt. Soon you take longer warmups but... it keeps getting worse. Finally, you lay off. You start to shrink and... panic sets in. You go back to benching again. It doesn’t hurt quite so bad so you try a few reps. The next day it hurts like crazy again. This temporary healing and re-injuring comes and goes and... you get despondent, hungering for the time you could train without pain.
Assuming you can still do some exercises without pain... Here’s some wonderful news: The heavier the weight... the greater the stress on the joints. The lighter the weight... the less stress on the joints and.. the slower you go, the more stress on the muscles.
Most of the time the problem is in the joint not the muscle. So switching the stress from the joint to the muscle does two very important things. First, it takes the stress off the joints and it increases the stress on the muscles in a wonderful way. Which I’ll explain in a minute. Here’s what you should do: Get a light weight, find a track through which you can move the weight that moves the injured joint without pain. You may have to switch to dumbbells rather than a barbell. (barbells are especially hard on joints)
As you do the exercise find a “pain free” track through which you can move the weights. It’s got to be pain free or it won’t work. It can’t be less pain. It’s got to be “pain free”. Once you’ve got this track nailed down, slow way down, 20 sec up and 20 sec down. Use a weight that you can barely handle. This does several things.
First, it assists healing by increasing circulation which removes damaged capillaries. Also, it carries nutrition to the injured tissues.
If you learn to be sensitive to pain you won’t interfere with the healing process.
Secondly, you completely avoid atrophy of the muscles by use of Dr. Fenn’s incredibly powerful discovery... “Intensity exerted on the muscles is inversely proportional to the square of the speed of the repetition.
If you get injured... slow way down... select a weight that feels just right and you’re on your way to... Healing Without Shrinking.

 

[Ronaldo]

i posted this because i disagree with that. I dont see it listed but he mentions where he recommends a rep speed of around 20 seconds up and 20 seconds down. This will put fresh new healing blood into the muscles and joints. Plus you must ice the joints . You have to do all of what he says , just not part of it.

He also recommends a speed of 6 up and 6 down for around 5 or 6 reps to speed healing as this will help in rehabbing the muscles. I also disagree with how most rehab places train people to heal their injuries. Just because they have a degree means nothing to me

How/what would you change the way rehab train their staff?

 

[ttwarrior1]

Most trainers have no idea what they are doing. Just like arnold recommending people to lift weights 6 days a week , sometimes twice a day for multiple sets 2-3 times a week. He is wrong even though he is the greatest bodybuilder of all time. Hell i have sports medicine doctors come to me in the gym because they know they are wrong . Funny how something is supposed to be right and then later you find out something else is better. This means what you did before wasnt as good. simple as that.

 

[ttwarrior1]

1. They are wrong about how often you are supposed to rehab
2. Most dont want to learn anything new
3. They are wrong about the best exercises to rehab
4. They are wong about the rep speeds
5. They say natural cures dont work and they do
6. The #1 thing they want from you is money

 

[Ronaldo]

Seemed kinda funny my injury was cured when I ran outa money

 

[tlm]

ttwarrior1 makes a lot of good points,naturally tt is a weightlifter so he knows the magic of training.

I am 50 years young+ have been lifting for 26 years,i play tennis 6 days a week+ some times twice a day.And i am talking about real tennis, singles that is.

Without weight training there is no way i could keep up this pace.I have done what larry scott is saying+believe me it works.Weight training prevents injurys more than anything else,period.

Any of you that want to play your best tennis for a long time,take up weight training.I am not talking about sissy machine workouts,use freeweights with compound excersizes.Like benchpress,rows, curls,squats,french curls,seated press.

You could do basic lifting 3 times a week for 45 minutes each workout+change your body,the way you feel+help your tennis.I challenge anyone to try this for at least 3 months+ then see how you feel!

TT is right it is amazing how many of the doctors+health care professionals are still in the stone ages when it comes to training.

 

[slewisoh]

It sounds like many have had bad experiences with Physical Therapists.

I've benefitted many times from talented physical therapists, but it seems to me they were using the principles outlined above. They always start with pain-free strengthening exercises and work toward increasing strength and eventually regaining pain-free range of motion. Appropriate use of ice and heat as required.

I did most of my rehabbing at home using light weights and bands, but they always had some neat contraptions at therapy that I couldn't find elsewhere.

 

[OrangeOne]

This will put fresh new healing blood into the muscles and joints. Plus you must ice the joints . You have to do all of what he says , just not part of it.

Or, you don't! "Fresh new healing blood" is one thing, but sometimes there are indeed injuries that need true rest before healing can begin. Sometimes, ice is best, at least for the first period!

He also, nowhere in that set of rules, looks at prevention of that injury in the future, he's only looking at treatment. Often an injury results from a specific weakness! A trained physiotherapist will help you find exercises to do to prevent the injury from happening again, and often these are NOT traditional weight-lifting moves, they're usually smaller movement and specific in nature, often to work small, under-developed muscles you've been ignoring!

He also recommends a speed of 6 up and 6 down for around 5 or 6 reps to speed healing as this will help in rehabbing the muscles.

Why? Why this magic speed and combination? With what % load? For what muscles?

I also disagree with how most rehab places train people to heal their injuries. Just because they have a degree means nothing to me

Sorry, but the only thing I *hate* is hatred of learning! Remember, a degree is not 3 or 4 years of learning, it's the passing on of tens (and hundreds, in some cases) of years of learning by many, many people. You're learning the outcomes of the study of thousands before you.

Call me a fool, but I'll trust a trained professional in *treatment* over someone in *performance* who's 'been there and done that' 99 times out of 100. It's the same reason a good player does not necessarily a good coach make!. Sure, the methods he's quoting have worked for him, and he's probably done some study into it. But I'd trust someone who has spent a lifetime TREATING injury with some study in the area over someone who has spent a lifetime TRAINING themselves any day.

 

[Midlife crisis]

Sorry, but the only thing I *hate* is hatred of learning! Remember, a degree is not 3 or 4 years of learning, it's the passing on of tens (and hundreds, in some cases) of years of learning by many, many people. You're learning the outcomes of the study of thousands before you.

Call me a fool, but I'll trust a trained professional in *treatment* over someone in *performance* who's 'been there and done that' 99 times out of 100. It's the same reason a good player does not necessarily a good coach make!. Sure, the methods he's quoting have worked for him, and he's probably done some study into it. But I'd trust someone who has spent a lifetime TREATING injury with some study in the area over someone who has spent a lifetime TRAINING themselves any day.

Extremely well said!

 

[hifi heretic]

..don't like the idea of "one-size-fit's-all" treatments.

What may work for a muscle strain may not for a tendon tear. For example, front-line researchers now believe that icing and using NSAIDs are counter-productive in the treatment of Tennis Elbow. TE, it seems, persists because there is little blood flow to the where the epicondular tendon attaches to the elbow. Using ice and NSAIDs may make the pain subside for a while, but they may also prevent the injury from healing because they further restrict blood flow to what is already a "blood-starved" area.

Anyway, I'd be leary of what any body-builder says... Those that I've known were not very healthy people - many have high blood-pressure, persistent joint-problems, mediocre cardio conditioning, obsessive-compulsive tendencies (not all, of course, but a higher than average percentage), etc...

Personally, I'd stick with doctors who specialize in a specific type of sports injury.

 

[chess9]

..don't like the idea of "one-size-fit's-all" treatments.

What may work for a muscle strain may not for a tendon tear. For example, front-line researchers now believe that icing and using NSAIDs are counter-productive in the treatment of Tennis Elbow. TE, it seems, persists because there is little blood flow to the where the epicondular tendon attaches to the elbow. Using ice and NSAIDs may make the pain subside for a while, but they may also prevent the injury from healing because they further restrict blood flow to what is already a "blood-starved" area.

Anyway, I'd be leary of what any body-builder says... Those that I've known were not very healthy people - many have high blood-pressure, persistent joint-problems, mediocre cardio conditioning, obsessive-compulsive tendencies (not all, of course, but a higher than average percentage), etc...

Personally, I'd stick with doctors who specialize in a specific type of sports injury.

Yes, good points. Anyone who obsesses over their gastroc density is not my kind of guy.

Thankfully, tennis has no obsessive-compulsives. Just kidding you of course.

-Robert

 

[tlm]

There is a big difference in a true hardcore bodybuilder+ someone who just trains to stay fit+look better.

Dont kid youself though, into thinking bodybuilders dont know a lot about working through injurys+how to heal them.Sure these guys go to extremes,but a lot of times that is the only way to really learn what works.

I wouldnt tell anyone to not go to a doctor,but a lot of times they do just want to medicate you.I had some back problems the last few years+my doctor gave me medication+thier generic stretches+said that i will just have to live with it.

I asked him about this course i found on the net on how to beat back pain+he said i am wasting my money.So after reading+buying a few books on back pain with no success,i found this course on the net called lose the back pain.

It sounded good so i ordered it for $40, i was skeptical because i found a lot of this information in the past to just be the same old stuff.Anyway i followed this course to the T +for 2 years now i have been pain free+i play tennis everyday.

By the way this is put out by a bodybuilder+it has worked great,so dont tell me these guys dont know anything.The great health care professional wanted to have me just come back+keep getting prescriptions.

 

[hifi heretic]

By the way this is put out by a bodybuilder+it has worked great,so dont tell me these guys dont know anything.The great health care professional wanted to have me just come back+keep getting prescriptions.

I'm not saying that they don't "know anything", but I will say that their experience pales in comparison with that of a good doctor. ...A body builder who simply cites what has worked for him is basing his conclusions on a sample size of "one". ...Doctors (adequately trained ones, anyway), on the other hand, know very well that they cannot take what has worked for one person and presume that it will work for everyone. Indeed, many many study subjects need to be included in a trial before this conclusion can be reached. ..This is axiomatic to their traininng. There are simply too many factors that can influence why something has worked for one person and yet may not work for another. ..Not the least of these differences are the differences b/w various injuries, etc..

If you don't have confidence that your doctor is keeping abreast of the latest research in his field (which I'll assume is the one that relates to your injury), then find a different doctor.

My family doctor (a General practioner) told me that my tennis elbow was "simple tendonitis" that would go away in a few weeks if I simply iced it, took Aleve, and - if it persisted - a cortisone shot. In essence, he recommended the same treatement that had been recommended for the last 30 years (and has met with little success). ..Now, after seeing top docs in the field, I come to find that each of these treatments was totally counter-productive. Moral of the story: seek out the top doc and weigh/ measure his advice against that of top doc and, if time allows, agaist yet another. Do this, and you've done all you can.

As for body-builders. ..Most of them are so blessed genetically, that their advice is irrelevant to the typical person. If you think I'm wrong, consider this: Years ago, I knew probably 15 people who bought Arnold Schwarzenegers (sp?) book that revealed his training regimine. Throughout college each of these guys faithfully followed his workout. Though all of them got bigger and stronger, not a single one of them came close to looking like Arnold. ..Picking your parents is everything.

 

[ttwarrior1]

thought i would bump one of my favorite posts for the newbies

 

[Phil]

Yes, bump so the newbies can read Ronaldo's, Oranges and Hifiheretic's comments. Not yours, however.

I especially like the following comment from Hifi:

Anyway, I'd be leary of what any body-builder says... Those that I've known were not very healthy people - many have high blood-pressure, persistent joint-problems, mediocre cardio conditioning, obsessive-compulsive tendencies (not all, of course, but a higher than average percentage), etc...

Personally, I'd stick with doctors who specialize in a specific type of sports injury.

 

[ttwarrior1]

uh larry is not one of those guys, doesnt matter if larry was every a bodybuilder or mr olympia or not. Just like like my 400 pound nurse doesnt have to be skinny to know what she knows and does

 

[Phil]

uh larry is not one of those guys, doesnt matter if larry was every a bodybuilder or mr olympia or not. Just like like my 400 pound nurse doesnt have to be skinny to know what she knows and does

Okay, if you say so. I don't know Larry personally, so I can't question that.

BTW, DO you have a 400-pound nurse? If so, how, exactly, is she administering to your needs?

 

[ttwarrior1]

bump......... and no my nurse is about 350