Active players with a better clay resume than Jannik Sinner

[tudwell]

It is interesting to think about: Has there ever been a player who’s achieved so little on clay and yet been one of the top three favorites to win Roland Garros?

 

[nolefam_2024]

It is interesting to think about: Has there ever been a player who’s achieved so little on clay and yet been one of the top three favorites to win Roland Garros?

What you mean by so little ? Let's be fair. He has achieved more than most on the list but is just 22.
All young players achieve less.

 

[Fabresque]

@Kralingen was clearly inspired by my thread listing out all the players better than Nadal on indoor HC’s.

Difference is, Sinner’s got lots of time. Nadal was at the tail end of his career when I pointed out Grigor Dimitrov was better than him.

 

[tudwell]

What you mean by so little ? Let's be fair. He has achieved more than most on the list but is just 22.
All young players achieve less.

He’s won one title and yet to make a Masters final, let alone win one.

I’m not saying the oddsmakers are wrong and I do imagine he’ll be one of the top contenders for the title, but he has objectively done very little on the terre battue specifically. I personally can’t think of any other player in the last 20 or so years whose only achievement on the surface was a sole 250 title and yet was considered the third likeliest to win Roland Garros.

 

[GloW]

Seen a ton of Sinner clay hype recently, some even penciling him in as the favourite (!) for Roland Garros. I understand that he’s still young and after the AO win is on a star trajectory. He is playing amazing this year. I even believe that he will win RG one day and win many clay titles.

However, we are getting ahead of ourselves to put him as the RG favourite on a surface where he’s done very little so far.

His current clay resume:
- one clay title (a 250 in Umag).
- One RG QF
- 2 appearances in Masters SFs on the surface. Only 3 total QFs in clay Masters.
- just one top 5 win, 4 top 10 wins total
He has done very little on clay.

List of active players with a better clay resume:

Old guys:
Rafael Nadal (no introduction needed)
Novak Djokovic (3x RG champion)
Stan Wawrinka (RG champion)
Andy Murray (2x Masters winner, RG finalist)
Dominic Thiem (3x RG Finalist)
Dusan Lajovic (Masters final, win over Djokovic)
Fabio Fognini (Masters title, win over Nadal)
Diego Schwartzman (RG SF, Masters final)
Kei Nishikori (2 Masters finals)
Gael Monfils (Masters final, RG SF)
Albert Ramos-Vinolas (Masters final, 4 clay titles)
Richie Gasquet (Masters final, 3 clay titles)
JL Struff (Masters final, clay title)
Benoit Paire (3 clay titles, Masters SF)
Marco Cecchinato (RG SF, 3 clay titles)
Marin Cilic (RG SF, 2 clay titles)

Under 30s:
Matteo Berrettini (Masters final, 3 clay titles)
Christian Garin (5 clay titles)
Alexander Zverev (3x Masters winner)
Casper Ruud (2x RG finalist)
Stefanos Tsitsipas (RG finalist, 3x Masters winner)
Andrey Rublev (Masters winner, beat Nadal/Djokovic)
Daniil Medvedev (Masters winner)
Carlos Alcaraz Garfia (2x Masters winner, RG SF)
Alejandro Davidovich Fokina (Masters finalist, beat Djokovic)
Holger Rune (Masters finalist, 3 clay titles, beat Djokovic)

This is not to put Sinner down as he is still young and learning the surface. He may well get himself above some of these players this season. However, as it currently stands, he has done nothing on clay to be considered the RG favourite.

OP, this is a bit disingenuous:

Holger Rune (Masters finalist, 3 clay titles, beat Djokovic)

He's a two-time Masters finalist on clay, he made the finals of both MC and Rome last year. You also omit he's twice made the QF's at RG. So clearly he has the better clay resume than Sinner. That won't last long, but it's true right now. So there's your answer of a current player with a superior clay resume to Sinner.

He only told us that zverev has three masters titles but he has 3 roland garros semis in a row too

 

[GloW]

The oddsmakers seem to have a good handle on the chances of players winning taking into account their clay resume, current form and health. Depending on the results of Madrid and Rome, the picture might change dramatically especially for Sinner and Nadal. Also we will see if Djokovic looks healthy at Rome or his odds will drop.

2024 MEN'S FRENCH OPEN ODDS​

• Carlos Alcaraz +162
• Novak Djokovic +250
• Jannik Sinner +300
• Rafael Nadal +600
• Casper Ruud +1000
• Stefanos Tsitsipas +1100
• Holger Rune +1400
• Alexander Zverev +1600
• Daniil Medvedev +2000
• Andrey Rublev +4000

+1600 for zverev is a steal

 

[nolefam_2024]

+1600 for zverev is a steal

he is a mug. stop worshipping losers

 

[GloW]

he is a mug. stop worshipping losers

Never

 

[nolefam_2024]

He’s won one title and yet to make a Masters final, let alone win one.

I’m not saying the oddsmakers are wrong and I do imagine he’ll be one of the top contenders for the title, but he has objectively done very little on the terre battue specifically. I personally can’t think of any other player in the last 20 or so years whose only achievement on the surface was a sole 250 title and yet was considered the third likeliest to win Roland Garros.

Due to Nadal's existence it became impossible for anyone other than only great players to be in the conversation. But on grass its possible. Alcaraz was not having won any title on grass but he was world number 1 and was second favorite. Then he won queens.

 

[Nuclear Warhead Sinner]

I wish I had any brain cells left to articulate a congruous and poignant response.

 

[GloW]

I wish I had any brain cells left to articulate a congruous and poignant response.

Me too

 

[CHillTennis]

It's all relative right? Fed's stamina was better than almost any player ever outside of Rafito and Djokito. Early in his career he could just run around all day, slicing guys to death and waiting for a short ball to crush.

Come to think of it. I can't remember a single time where I ever saw Roger Federer looking tired.

 

[Megafanoftennis100]

Guys Sinner will surely beat in direct confrontation at RG.

Old guys:
Rafael Nadal (no introduction needed)
Novak Djokovic (3x RG champion)
Stan Wawrinka (RG champion)
Andy Murray (2x Masters winner, RG finalist)
Dominic Thiem (3x RG Finalist)
Dusan Lajovic (Masters final, win over Djokovic)
Fabio Fognini (Masters title, win over Nadal)
Diego Schwartzman (RG SF, Masters final)
Kei Nishikori (2 Masters finals)
Gael Monfils (Masters final, RG SF)
Albert Ramos-Vinolas (Masters final, 4 clay titles)
Richie Gasquet (Masters final, 3 clay titles)
JL Struff (Masters final, clay title)
Benoit Paire (3 clay titles, Masters SF)
Marco Cecchinato (RG SF, 3 clay titles)
Marin Cilic (RG SF, 2 clay titles)

Under 30s:
Matteo Berrettini (Masters final, 3 clay titles)
Christian Garin (5 clay titles)
Alexander Zverev (3x Masters winner)
Casper Ruud (2x RG finalist)
Stefanos Tsitsipas (RG finalist, 3x Masters winner)
Andrey Rublev (Masters winner, beat Nadal/Djokovic)
Daniil Medvedev (Masters winner)
Carlos Alcaraz Garfia (2x Masters winner, RG SF)
Alejandro Davidovich Fokina (Masters finalist, beat Djokovic)
Holger Rune (Masters finalist, 3 clay titles, beat Djokovic)


The old players are not scary at all. Only Djokovic Struff and Lajovic can even do much at this stage.

Under 30 guys can beat Sinner but would need to play extremely well.

Please cross out that incompetent disgraceful weak era vulture as well!

 

[Megafanoftennis100]

Come to think of it. I can't remember a single time where I ever saw Roger Federer looking tired.

Wimbledon 2015 final in the last 2 sets

 

[Baseline_Bungle]

Seen a ton of Sinner clay hype recently, some even penciling him in as the favourite (!) for Roland Garros. I understand that he’s still young and after the AO win is on a star trajectory. He is playing amazing this year. I even believe that he will win RG one day and win many clay titles.

However, we are getting ahead of ourselves to put him as the RG favourite on a surface where he’s done very little so far.

His current clay resume:
- one clay title (a 250 in Umag).
- One RG QF
- 2 appearances in Masters SFs on the surface. Only 3 total QFs in clay Masters.
- just one top 5 win, 4 top 10 wins total
He has done very little on clay.

List of active players with a better clay resume:

Old guys:
Rafael Nadal (no introduction needed)
Novak Djokovic (3x RG champion)
Stan Wawrinka (RG champion)
Andy Murray (2x Masters winner, RG finalist)
Dominic Thiem (3x RG Finalist)
Dusan Lajovic (Masters final, win over Djokovic)
Fabio Fognini (Masters title, win over Nadal)
Diego Schwartzman (RG SF, Masters final)
Kei Nishikori (2 Masters finals)
Gael Monfils (Masters final, RG SF)
Albert Ramos-Vinolas (Masters final, 4 clay titles)
Richie Gasquet (Masters final, 3 clay titles)
JL Struff (Masters final, clay title)
Benoit Paire (3 clay titles, Masters SF)
Marco Cecchinato (RG SF, 3 clay titles)
Marin Cilic (RG SF, 2 clay titles)

Under 30s:
Matteo Berrettini (Masters final, 3 clay titles)
Christian Garin (5 clay titles)
Alexander Zverev (3x Masters winner)
Casper Ruud (2x RG finalist)
Stefanos Tsitsipas (RG finalist, 3x Masters winner)
Andrey Rublev (Masters winner, beat Nadal/Djokovic)
Daniil Medvedev (Masters winner)
Carlos Alcaraz Garfia (2x Masters winner, RG SF)
Alejandro Davidovich Fokina (Masters finalist, beat Djokovic)
Holger Rune (Masters finalist, 3 clay titles, beat Djokovic)

This is not to put Sinner down as he is still young and learning the surface. He may well get himself above some of these players this season. However, as it currently stands, he has done nothing on clay to be considered the RG favourite.

Seriously though, how many of the guys on your list would you consider favorite versus an in-form Sinner in a second week RG match? Maybe one?

 

[nolefam_2024]

Seriously though, how many of the guys on your list would you consider favorite versus an in-form Sinner in a second week RG match? Maybe one?

I would only put 2 right now. Maybe 3 if zedrot can arrive.
Apart from those 3, Sinner would be odds on favorite vs rest of the bunch.

 

[Poisoned Slice]

Fascinating.

 

[jeroenn]

Sinner's not worthy of a clay-related thread, and will probably never win a clay masters in his entire career.
Nadal is about to beat Sinner for the 4th time on clay... and it will be 10 sets in a row too.

I see.
So far, Sinner is through to the next round and Nadal, well...

Do we need to get you a teddybear or something in the meantime?

 

[nolefam_2024]

I see.
So far, Sinner is through to the next round and Nadal, well...

Do we need to get you a teddybear or something in the meantime?

Teddy is too good for trolls. They should get cactus.

 

[Rosstour]

Come to think of it. I can't remember a single time where I ever saw Roger Federer looking tired.

Wimbledon 2016 SF v Raonic is the one that sticks out to me

 

[CHillTennis]

Wimbledon 2016 SF v Raonic is the one that sticks out to me

Wow! I actually forgot about that one.

Yeah, that would be one of the few times where Roger clearly didn't have what it took on that day.

 

[Rosstour]

Wow! I actually forgot about that one.

Yeah, that would be one of the few times where Roger clearly didn't have what it took on that day.

That's when he disappeared for a while. That was the last time we saw him until he won AO17. Talk about a turnaround. When he fell reaching for a volley and took a while to get up, I was pretty sure he was done and that retirement wasn't too far off

 

[nolefam_2024]

Just watched Sinner hls. The ball that he hits, he can knock people off their legs. Not sure if doubting him is best strategy. Even on clay.

 

[CHillTennis]

That's when he disappeared for a while. That was the last time we saw him until he won AO17. Talk about a turnaround. When he fell reaching for a volley and took a while to get up, I was pretty sure he was done and that retirement wasn't too far off

Nadal as well. He had a string of bad losses in early 2016 (including a couple of very one sided defeats to Novak.) I thought that both Nadal and Federer were done and that Djokovic and Murray were going to keep winning everything for the next few years.

Boy was I ever wrong.

 

[Kralingen]

Seriously though, how many of the guys on your list would you consider favorite versus an in-form Sinner in a second week RG match? Maybe one?

Basically just the Raz yes.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Basically just the Raz yes.

Yes

 

[AlecG]

Seen a ton of Sinner clay hype recently, some even penciling him in as the favourite (!) for Roland Garros. I understand that he’s still young and after the AO win is on a star trajectory. He is playing amazing this year. I even believe that he will win RG one day and win many clay titles.

However, we are getting ahead of ourselves to put him as the RG favourite on a surface where he’s done very little so far.

His current clay resume:
- one clay title (a 250 in Umag).
- One RG QF
- 2 appearances in Masters SFs on the surface. Only 3 total QFs in clay Masters.
- just one top 5 win, 4 top 10 wins total
He has done very little on clay.

List of active players with a better clay resume:

Old guys:
Rafael Nadal (no introduction needed)
Novak Djokovic (3x RG champion)
Stan Wawrinka (RG champion)
Andy Murray (2x Masters winner, RG finalist)
Dominic Thiem (3x RG Finalist)
Dusan Lajovic (Masters final, win over Djokovic)
Fabio Fognini (Masters title, win over Nadal)
Diego Schwartzman (RG SF, Masters final)
Kei Nishikori (2 Masters finals)
Gael Monfils (Masters final, RG SF)
Albert Ramos-Vinolas (Masters final, 4 clay titles)
Richie Gasquet (Masters final, 3 clay titles)
JL Struff (Masters final, clay title)
Benoit Paire (3 clay titles, Masters SF)
Marco Cecchinato (RG SF, 3 clay titles)
Marin Cilic (RG SF, 2 clay titles)

Under 30s:
Matteo Berrettini (Masters final, 3 clay titles)
Christian Garin (5 clay titles)
Alexander Zverev (3x Masters winner)
Casper Ruud (2x RG finalist)
Stefanos Tsitsipas (RG finalist, 3x Masters winner)
Andrey Rublev (Masters winner, beat Nadal/Djokovic)
Daniil Medvedev (Masters winner)
Carlos Alcaraz Garfia (2x Masters winner, RG SF)
Alejandro Davidovich Fokina (Masters finalist, beat Djokovic)
Holger Rune (Masters finalist, 3 clay titles, beat Djokovic)

This is not to put Sinner down as he is still young and learning the surface. He may well get himself above some of these players this season. However, as it currently stands, he has done nothing on clay to be considered the RG favourite.

Who put him as a favourite?
All this list proves is that a clay resume is less relevant many other factors.
He is not THE favourite but he's clearly more likely to win than the vast majority of these players with a better clay resume.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Now we are talking
Basically @Kralingen played waiting game. But even he agrees sinner is top 3 fav

 

[nolefam_2024]

Who put him as a favourite?
All this list proves is that a clay resume is less relevant many other factors.
He is not THE favourite but he's clearly more likely to win than the vast majority of these players with a better clay resume.

Clay resume is irrelevant.
Ferrer has huge clay resume but Delpo has more slam semis than him I think at RG.

In the end top players win everywhere today.

 

[NeutralFan]

What happened to your CYGS prediction?op son!