After stringing. Do you need to wait 24-48 hours ?
- Thread starter tenapasi
- Start date
No........
MuscleWeave
Semi-Pro
That is my theory. I haven't played enough this year to test it myself, but I find it reasonable that a uniformly settled stringbed (12 - 24 hrs.) will play more predictably and maintain tension for longer than one that has been given a 1/2 hour to rest before hitting balls. This latter method will break-in one impact at a time and not uniformly. I don't think using a racquet immediately after stringing would harm the racquet at all though.
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kevoT
Semi-Pro
it's better to leave it a day. I played with my new racquet just strung (it was literally just being clipped off when I got there); when I did play with it, I found that it lost tension a tad faster than what I normally find. Not to big of a difference, but I'd rather wait the day.
StJamm
Rookie
Don't forget though that the previous posters have talked about tension maintenance being amplified, this won't be an issue for a pro who gets their racquets freshly strung each day.
ODYSSEY Mk.4
Professional
no when i need to i try to string 4 hours before paly lol
From testing by Cross and Lindsey we know that nylon and polyester strings loss tension rapidly with time with the drop in poly more than nylon. Many do not know that a racket strung at 60 lbs can be at less than 50 lb after an hour. This drop off in tension slows with time and the tension becomes more stable with time. For most of us we should use a tension that feels right after the racket has sit for a day or 2 and has been hit with awhile. That way it will still feel about the same after an additional week or two or longer. If you like the feel right after stringing, the racket will likely feel a little loss the next week. Pre stretching the strings can change this behavior and of course a couple hours in a very hot car can change everything. If your a pro that has his rackets strung in the morning and play with them in the afternoon, that works also given the above behavior. A racket that has been strung for 2 hours does not change much in the next 4 hours, but will change over the next week. The above numbers are just round numbers.
Scott Walker
Scott Walker
Actually a racket strung at 60 will be about 38-40 immediately after stringing. 60 is just the pull tension and you lose about 22 lbs. Then a decent string will lose 3-5 overnight and a couple more after playing and might hold at 33-35 for a while. Under 28-30 after a few weeks will feel ready for a restring.
mathieu
Rookie
That is some serious bs. What if you strung a racquet at 20 lbs, would it feel like -2 lbs immediately after stringing? Or will it eventually reach 0 lbs?
Obviously that would not work exactly like that for 20 lbs, that is what happens at 60 lbs use your head. I have tested it precisely by recording the frequency. The higher tension you start with, the more room their is for tension loss. So probably a racket strung at 20 lbs would be somewhere around 14-16 and drop to 12 or 13. But I am just guessing for this one.
fluffy Beaver
Professional
fluffy Beaver
Professional
And that is why your post is BS
Yep as I said BS
No argument to Bugs post airman?
And that is why your post is BS
I don't think you get it. I was guessing for the 20 lbs cause I would never string at 20 lbs. The post above about a 60 lb scenario is fairly accurate from measurements taken right from the strings using a computer program, there is no guessing in those numbers. The post calling it BS was saying you can't lose a static 22 lbs, since if you string at 20 lbs it wouldn't be -2. And my response was that the situation for 60 lbs cannot directly be used as a model for what would happen at 20 lbs, since the initial tension directly affects how tension is lost. And I said for people to use their head because they are not thinking it through why it is not BS, and in fact is the close to actuality.
fluffy Beaver
Professional
You still didn't respond to my next post. Stop trying to sound scientific, your crud post are all bs.
As far as bugs post goes, he is using the program that automatically adds in 22 lbs or a certain % to the reading to try and adjust. I take my readings based upon the same mechanism that the Ipod or Android program, but I don't add in a made up reference number. You guys are mixing up true physical tension and token reference tension numbers.
fluffy Beaver
Professional
Uh huh sure, you're probably the type of player who blames equipment for their losses. Whatever carry on :shock:
I don't mind people being critical if they have reason to think the numbers might be off. But I just don't understand why people are critical without thinking it through themselves, or if they have no experience in keeping track of tensions. That is just ignorance. I am not criticizing Bugs for his numbers because he said he is using the program and that's how it works. If you want to see that this is right, read how the tension measurement programs work. Otherwise, take the information if you find it helpful, otherwise just ignore it.
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Here is the thread for anyone who is interested.
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=28657
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=28657
BagelMe
Semi-Pro
Are you drunk?
ktmailserv
New User
I think everyone agrees that tension drops but it might not be so dramatic as you pointed out.
and what about the string material? doesn't that count? I would think that loss of tension also depends on the tensile strength of material. Today's co-polys and syn. gut could have varied tensile strength and other characteristics which could resist tension loss better...
Also, if we lose tension so dramatically, what's the point of doing the expensive re-stringing with all specific string tension parameters? it would be pointless the next day ...so why bother?
and what about the string material? doesn't that count? I would think that loss of tension also depends on the tensile strength of material. Today's co-polys and syn. gut could have varied tensile strength and other characteristics which could resist tension loss better...
Also, if we lose tension so dramatically, what's the point of doing the expensive re-stringing with all specific string tension parameters? it would be pointless the next day ...so why bother?
ktmailserv
New User
I meant to say "elastic limit" not "tensile strength"...
ReopeningWed
Professional
No one in this thread is good enough for tension maintenance to matter. Our games are so on and off that another 3 days of strings settling in won't make a difference.
I say just string the darn thing, go out and hit.
I say just string the darn thing, go out and hit.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Yeah, I just string full poly at 52#s on my dropweight and adjust to the tension loss.
I measure my string tension with an ERT 300. I string to an immediate off the stringing machine 29 DT on the ERT 300. Within 24-48 hours it measures 27. I hit with it 3 or 4 times until the ERT DT is 25. Then I start using it for competative play. It remaims between 23-25 DT on the ERT 300 for about a month playing doubles 3 times a week. At 23 DT I restring. I string in a full poly (Gosen polyquest 17 - the old SP) at low tension due to shoulder problems. I started this process in order to keep my tension constant and at a comfortable level for my shoulder. I found a soft poly at low tension in a flexible racqet (LM Radical OS) worked best for rotator cuff problems.
JackB1
G.O.A.T.
We all know string lose the most tension in the 24 hours right after stringing, so it makes sense that if you play with it during this time, you will compound the issue. Best to wait a day and then use it (if u can). The Pros don't need to worry about this because all they care about is one day at a time.
Rabbit
G.O.A.T.
To the OP, I agree with Jim. The answer is "NO" you do not need to wait a day. You'll hurt neither the string or the frame.
With regard to the 'physics' of playing fresh or waiting 24 hours, it's all the same. Pros are as superstitious as the rest of us. Sampras used to have his frames strung every day whether they were played with or not during a tournament. Phillipousous heard about this and took his frames in to have the same thing done. His coach hung around and when Scud had left said "Just re-stencil them, no need to restring." I doubt MP ever knew the difference and probably saved himself $300 in stringing.
Hey, when your name is Roger Federer and you make $20M/year, get free racquets and string from Wilson, get free shoes and clothes from Nike and pay a racquet services company a fairly substantial amount to string for you....why not restring every day? But, I'll just about guarantee you that Roger Federer has played with his share of old string jobs because he, just like us, has had to balance a new string job with that last $20 in his pocket. When you have the deal afore described, it's no big deal to go through a 1/2 set of gut & a 1/2 set of expensive poly each in 12 racquets a day.
And to all that, Federer still could lose to a guy playing with last week's string job.
To balance all that, I heard McEnroe commenting at Wimbledon. John Isner, who is a bigger server than Federer, plays with a racquet until it breaks. He carries 3 frames with him (or some small number) and doesn't get them restrung daily. The commentators were actually semi-laughing about the situation I think more in admiration and it's sheer old-schoolness.
It's all what you get used to and can afford.
With regard to the 'physics' of playing fresh or waiting 24 hours, it's all the same. Pros are as superstitious as the rest of us. Sampras used to have his frames strung every day whether they were played with or not during a tournament. Phillipousous heard about this and took his frames in to have the same thing done. His coach hung around and when Scud had left said "Just re-stencil them, no need to restring." I doubt MP ever knew the difference and probably saved himself $300 in stringing.
Hey, when your name is Roger Federer and you make $20M/year, get free racquets and string from Wilson, get free shoes and clothes from Nike and pay a racquet services company a fairly substantial amount to string for you....why not restring every day? But, I'll just about guarantee you that Roger Federer has played with his share of old string jobs because he, just like us, has had to balance a new string job with that last $20 in his pocket. When you have the deal afore described, it's no big deal to go through a 1/2 set of gut & a 1/2 set of expensive poly each in 12 racquets a day.
And to all that, Federer still could lose to a guy playing with last week's string job.
To balance all that, I heard McEnroe commenting at Wimbledon. John Isner, who is a bigger server than Federer, plays with a racquet until it breaks. He carries 3 frames with him (or some small number) and doesn't get them restrung daily. The commentators were actually semi-laughing about the situation I think more in admiration and it's sheer old-schoolness.
It's all what you get used to and can afford.
We are talking about at most an inch or less in distance change with the ball hit due to the tension loss. And that is if you are playing all 24 hours. Within a hour or two of actual play you are looking at much less than an inch difference.
If you are good enough to notice less than an inch difference on your normal stroke and consistent enough to hit them shot after shot, you probably also have an agent and a team of people to string your racquets and certainly not posting or reading on this forum.
MuscleWeave
Semi-Pro
The first number you stated is the pull tension, while stringing. The rest of the numbers are for stringbed stiffness (SBS). The SBS numbers are usefull to compare to eachother, but not to the pull tension. Then when your done with a set of strings your records can help you decide what tension to string at next, or what string to try next. Comparing your pull tension to your immediate SBS does not indicate an immediate drop in tension.
MW
NineMileSkid
Rookie
He must have had one big closet!
TennezSport
Hall of Fame
R U Sure.......
Not sure where you got your numbers from but the tests that the ITF and Tecnifibre have done over the years show that a loss of 1kg (2.2lbs) will result in approx. 2-3ft (.61-.91m) difference in length for a basic shot at tour level ability.
The USRSA bases it's tension loss stats on stringing and measuring tension immediately after. Then hitting a number of balls simulating a 120mph (193kph) serve and measuring the difference. Loss can range from approx. 2.8-28lbs (1.27-12.7kgs) or more, depending on string, racquet pattern, stringer technique, machine, player ability, etc.. While it's difficult to feel the difference in tension, even for pro players, this is why most pros string almost every day to get a higher level of consistency.
At the rec level players are not that accurate or consistent and adjust to tension loss as they play. Most have never had their racquet strung at the tension they requested anyway, as most stringers just throw a set of string in a racquet without understanding the art/science of stringing. So many things can effect the actual tension in racquets that it's difficult to generalize, which is why pro stringing rooms have such strict practices; minimizing inconsistencies.
Cheers, TennezSport
Not sure where you got your numbers from but the tests that the ITF and Tecnifibre have done over the years show that a loss of 1kg (2.2lbs) will result in approx. 2-3ft (.61-.91m) difference in length for a basic shot at tour level ability.
The USRSA bases it's tension loss stats on stringing and measuring tension immediately after. Then hitting a number of balls simulating a 120mph (193kph) serve and measuring the difference. Loss can range from approx. 2.8-28lbs (1.27-12.7kgs) or more, depending on string, racquet pattern, stringer technique, machine, player ability, etc.. While it's difficult to feel the difference in tension, even for pro players, this is why most pros string almost every day to get a higher level of consistency.
At the rec level players are not that accurate or consistent and adjust to tension loss as they play. Most have never had their racquet strung at the tension they requested anyway, as most stringers just throw a set of string in a racquet without understanding the art/science of stringing. So many things can effect the actual tension in racquets that it's difficult to generalize, which is why pro stringing rooms have such strict practices; minimizing inconsistencies.
Cheers, TennezSport
Not according to Prof. Cross.
Here is his findings from his paper "Flexible beam analysis of the effects of string tension and frame stiffness on racket performance"
Racket power can also be increased by stringing the racket at a lower tension, but the effect is almost negligible. For impacts near the centre of the strings it was found that a factor of two decrease in string plane stiffness yields a 7% increase in the apparent coef®cient of restitution. This translates to a 2% increase in serve speed. Consequently, if the string tension in a tennis racket is decreased from 60 to 50 lb, the increase in serve speed will be only about 0.7%. In the case of a forehand or backhand, the corresponding increase in ball speed is about 1.1%.
1.1% difference in speed is going to result in difference in inches, not feet. And that is for 10 lb difference in tension.
Here is his findings from his paper "Flexible beam analysis of the effects of string tension and frame stiffness on racket performance"
Racket power can also be increased by stringing the racket at a lower tension, but the effect is almost negligible. For impacts near the centre of the strings it was found that a factor of two decrease in string plane stiffness yields a 7% increase in the apparent coef®cient of restitution. This translates to a 2% increase in serve speed. Consequently, if the string tension in a tennis racket is decreased from 60 to 50 lb, the increase in serve speed will be only about 0.7%. In the case of a forehand or backhand, the corresponding increase in ball speed is about 1.1%.
1.1% difference in speed is going to result in difference in inches, not feet. And that is for 10 lb difference in tension.
TennisNinja
Hall of Fame
I personally can't tell the difference.
arche3
Banned
Not to be off topic but do any of you guys remember the thread where some guy was swearing up and down based on science that tennis strings actually gain tension as you play the racket? That was a funny thread.
on topic:
I like to let a racket sit over night before playing a new string job. I string a lil higher and by the next day it is in my comfort zone.
on topic:
I like to let a racket sit over night before playing a new string job. I string a lil higher and by the next day it is in my comfort zone.
TennezSport
Hall of Fame
Ahhhhhh..........
Ahhh, now I know where you are coming from. Yes, I have read that also and I do agree with the technical aspect of the analysis in CoR when using a machine to draw a baseline. However, testing with players will deliver very different results, based on player ability and technique and the result comes out to be a lot larger.
Cheers, TennezSport
Ahhh, now I know where you are coming from. Yes, I have read that also and I do agree with the technical aspect of the analysis in CoR when using a machine to draw a baseline. However, testing with players will deliver very different results, based on player ability and technique and the result comes out to be a lot larger.
Cheers, TennezSport
tlm
G.O.A.T.
Forget all this checking tension drop, this string drops this much after so many hours+then it is this tension for so long.
Who cares that does not mean squat, play with the racket at different times after stringing+see how it plays best for you.That is the real test, i will still say that nothing plays as well as a freshly strung stick!!!!!!
Who cares that does not mean squat, play with the racket at different times after stringing+see how it plays best for you.That is the real test, i will still say that nothing plays as well as a freshly strung stick!!!!!!
OldButGame
Hall of Fame
This past March i bought my BB11,..from TW,..had it strung w/ MSV,..17L,....55lb. I really didnt care for it first several times....felt boardy,..harsh. (part of it was me not in condition to handle that racquet....part of it...)...
...Point is....i picked it up again....end of season here,...(October,....7 mos later)....i expected it to be worthless based on all the threads about 'dead strings', and 'tension loss' etc.
Actually it seemed like i could work wonders with this stick now,....laser like shots,....pinpoint accuracy,...and shots to knock people off their feet,...fantastic stability on returns,......maybe cuz tension had lightened some,....maybe cuz i was just plain in better shape,....but after that much time......the strings certainly didnt seem to pose a problem. Went even further toward selling me on the 'Low Tension' movement',....and believing that strings last longer than commonly stated.
...Point is....i picked it up again....end of season here,...(October,....7 mos later)....i expected it to be worthless based on all the threads about 'dead strings', and 'tension loss' etc.
Actually it seemed like i could work wonders with this stick now,....laser like shots,....pinpoint accuracy,...and shots to knock people off their feet,...fantastic stability on returns,......maybe cuz tension had lightened some,....maybe cuz i was just plain in better shape,....but after that much time......the strings certainly didnt seem to pose a problem. Went even further toward selling me on the 'Low Tension' movement',....and believing that strings last longer than commonly stated.
arche3
Banned
I agree. I think strings can last quite a bit longer than we think. My last RPM 17g string job lasted me a full month before it got too loose. It lost 5lbs of tension after the first hit. then stayed like that for 4 weeks, then it went another 4 lbs looser really fast within a couple days and I restrung. I rotated 3 rackets with same strings. So this racket probably had 14- 16 hours on it.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
This has happened to me also, i have used demo
rackets with old beat up string that played unbelievable.
But dont confuse this with the difference of playing with
a first day string job+ a 2nd day.
It is not the same, i cant explain it but believe me you
will not get that magic by waiting a few days or even
a week.
As far as your low tension theory,that will not match
what your old string played like.A year ago i demoed
a yonex rq1s that had yonex 850 pro in it+ it was old
beat up+moving all over the place.But this racket played
unbelievable great spin control it was perfect.
I demoed
another one with the same string but newer+ it did not
play near as well.I ended up purchasing a couple of
these rackets.I thought like you i started with real low
tensions+kept going up until i could find that magic tension.
But it never happened, i could get it to play pretty well but
could never match that old string job.
I remember selling one of my other old racket to a friend, it
had a old string job that had been sitting in the closet for a
year.When he broke the string he replaced it with the same
string+tension but it was not the same.He experimented with
it at different tensions, but could never match that old beat
up string job.
