alternative to 2nd serve kick serve (not slice)?

[gull_man]

i would like to have another kind of 2nd serve but not a kick serve - still haven't got a handle on the kick. where would i toss such a ball and how would i hit it for another type of 'standard' 2nd serve? it needs to also be hit aggressively and with spin.

i'm not good at slice serves so not that thank you.

 

[LeeD]

Slice is NOT good for 2nd serves, low margin for error, and needs to be hit slow to arc IN.
Topspin with a slice component is the first second serve any player should learn, and still used by Rafa, DJ, Murray, and Fed, when they aren't hitting twists or kickers.
Rightie, toss atop your head, but into the court a little, to hit with a combination of topspin with a sidespin component. Topspin by itself is easy to get used to, but when combined with some sidespin, the bounce angles can alter by your exact toss location.

 

[Topspin Shot]

If by "kick" you mean "twist," then you could work on a topspin or topslice second serve.

 

[Ballinbob]

Topslice is awesome for second serves. You can hit them much harder than a kick serves at a decent percentage. If you like to be aggressive with the second serve (I do) then definitely work on the top slice.

 

[gull_man]

keep posting guys . . .

i take it that the racket face at contact is still right angles like a kick serve is, or would it be slightly angled down to direct ball down into the court?

i think i made a big mistake - spending ages failing to learn the kick serve when i probalby could have had a dependable 2nd serve (standard spin serve) that would have rescued me. bad choices. . . i used to do something like this when i was younger and i had more control over the beast.

 

[gull_man]

also, i assume the amount of body twist/spinning for this serve is the same as a flat serve? or somewhat more? but less than a kick serve, where you twist/rotate torse more to make the "over your head toss" travel along the base line .

 

[sjoerdklarenbeek]

Try involving a bit of placement, so avoid the opponent's forehand strikezone. Most people don't have a killer BH ROS so any second serve to the backhand should get you a decent start of the point.

As for the type of serve, some diagonal spin would be relatively easy and low-risk. For a righty this would mean the ball spins down and to the left.

Don't go for the lines, and go for decent net clearance. Don't try to hit it awfully hard, your motion should be rhythmic. After hitting the serve, get ready as fast as possible to deal with the ROS.

 

[Ballinbob]

You can also vary your kick serve pace/placement if you know how. You can serve up a slower but high bouncing twist, a faster kick down the T or at the body... There's a lot you can do. Whatever you do for a second serve though it will need a big topspin component so as to be consistent

 

[LeeD]

Yeah, dumbest strategy is to serve your second serve to the forehand side, when it's coming back with interest every time, and you keep serving there.

 

[magnut]

i tend to not looking at serving in terms of first and second serves. You basically have three serves .....flat, slice and kick. everything from there is a variation....slice/kick, high slow kickers, slow sliders, shot kickers etc. etc.

the variety comes from change ups and good placement. If you just kick it or slice it to the same spot on every second serve players pick up on it and know where to cover.

I would suggest keep working on mastering the different spins and develop good placement. Then study your opponent and become more of a pitcher instaed of a bomber. Pace is not as important as change ups and unpredictability. I only use a flat serve as a change up when the score is in my favor..say 40-love or 40-15.

as far as slice on the second serve I use it a lot on the duece side for a righty. a short slice out wide to the forehand pulls the returner off the court and opens the court up making the opponent hit a running backhand. I dont kill the slice with pace instead use a 3/4 heavy spin that breaks hard. i am trying to force the returner outside the ally to connect on the return. if the server expects it and starts to move that way on the second it opens up the kicker up the middle which in term forces them back to center and opens up the slider out wide again.

Once you get the feel for the spins and placement is good then you can start learning ways to fake out the returner with fake sliders and fake kickers. then throw in a flat body serve once in a while and your serve will seem that much faster to the returner.

One major thing to think about. If you are relying on your second serve all the time your first serve percentage is way to low. Use more spin and placement to get your first serve percentages up. returners have different mental perspectives when returning first and second serves. Most are somewhat defensive or nuetral on the first serve where as the second they look to attack the return.

dont think of serving as aggresive first serve and deffensive or neutral second serves. If your scared of double faulting get over it, practice more, and serve smarter. a double fault is no different than any other error IE missing a volley, forehand etc. Just get over it.

my serving style centers around keeping the returner off balance and not getting clean hits at the ball. I never go for aces they just happen. i am trying to set up a volley or a weak return I can approach on if staying back.

 

[magnut]

Yeah, dumbest strategy is to serve your second serve to the forehand side, when it's coming back with interest every time, and you keep serving there.

serving to the forehand is fine if your pulling the returner where they cant get behind the ball and load up. If you never go into the forehand they will just sit on the backhand return all the time. When that starts happening your going to get broken by a good returner.

 

[LeeD]

"when it's coming back with interest, and you keep serving there"...
Did you read that part, or did you skim like most posters on here?
Can I assume you actually PLAY tennis, and not just another theorist on here?

 

[GuyClinch]

LeeD is right - topslice is the serve. You can also vary the amount of slice and the amount of top in this serve. So it can be more like a kicker or have a bit more slice..

This is handy if you are hitting to the deuce or ad side. Once you get the hang of this you can vary the power levels some. So you can serve safely at the 3.5 - 4.0 levels with one basic serve.

I think the key to serves - and what few people want to do is to go out there and experiment. Try hitting slow serves with a ton of net clearance - for practice. Go out and try hitting serves with a lot of slice and good pace for practice. Then try to combine the two and try to vary the location..

No one has issues if I say hit a loopy forehand - they all can do it. But say hit a serve with a ton of net clearance - they look at me like I am crazy..

 

[magnut]

"when it's coming back with interest, and you keep serving there"...
Did you read that part, or did you skim like most posters on here?
Can I assume you actually PLAY tennis, and not just another theorist on here?

i could care less if they just hit it hard. lots of returners can hit it hard. its when they are accurate with the returns that is the most difficult. You can hit returns "with interest" as you say just by reaching out and slapping at them. To hit low or sharp angled returns you really have to get your body in position and load well.

so yes...i read your whole post. You just dont cover the aspects and give a quick and broad statement. maybe you need to work more on fine tuning your communication.

If your having problems with people skimming your posts maybe they dont have respect for your opinions. that or they just dont read through things properly. To accuse people of not being able to read your mind is pretty rude though. I dont appreciate your attitude or snarky comments directed at me. and yes i play and train almost every day. Only reason I am here now is its raining.

 

[magnut]

You post something stupid, you get to live with your posts.
"With interest" means you are stupid to serve there every time, doesn't it?

How would I know? I am just stupid and dont actually play tennis. I have no idea what your personal tennis "slang" applies to when speaking about return of serve.

 

[LeeD]

If you "didn't know what I meant", why would you post such a determined answer to argue about something you know nothing about?
Isn't that akin to "shooting your mouth off about things you know nothing about?"
Sure, we have to serve to the forehand side once in a while, to keep the returner honest, but NOT if the returner is pummelling his returns for forcing shots and winners. We can serve to the backhand, wide to the backhand, jam the backhand, or into the forehand side to jam the forehand. There are LOTS of alternatives to just "serving to the forehand side".

 

[LeeD]

Can I ASSUME you already know this?

 

[ProgressoR]

I do not have a kick serve, my second has some variety, mainly top slice with a bit more top than my regular first. It is a steady serve, the top helps it to dip in and doesnt make it easy to attack unless the placement is bad. A slice out wide can also work, or down the T on the ad side.

You dont need a kick serve, but it certainly is a useful tool and I will work on trying to develop a good one.

 

[arche3]

LeeD going ballistic because he thinks he is the god father of serves on ttw.
News flash. LeeD has an OK serve for a rec player. Even in his prime. So no need to be all Mr serve master of ttw.

 

[mikeler]

"when it's coming back with interest, and you keep serving there"...
Did you read that part, or did you skim like most posters on here?
Can I assume you actually PLAY tennis, and not just another theorist on here?

We have to skim because most of the time we have to sift through your glory days stories to try and figure out your point. Regards.