Yesterday I was returning from the ad side and got a serve in the middle of the box. I made it a forehand and hit it solid in between net guy and the T. Net guy couldn't react quick enough to pick it off and I came in behind it. The server ran it down and hit a running forehand right down the middle of our court for an out-right winner. I stood there thinking wtf?? Should my partner have pinched off the middle when my ball was returned? It would have been a forehand half volley for me but it was tailing away from me based on the angle the server hit it from. It was a great shot from the server, just trying to understand how we could have defended it better.
Another doubles alignment question
- Thread starter 86golf
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Cindysphinx
G.O.A.T.
If I understand you correctly, and based on what coach has explained in our doubles clinics . . .
Your return went up the middle, not a wide crosscourt. Because you ran around your FH, the middle was more open than it normally would be.
Because your return went up the middle, your partner should have shifted toward the middle. The reason he should have done this was the position of the ball you struck -- he should have shifted with the ball, which would have put him more toward the middle.
The reason he should have shifted toward the middle was *not* because you had run around your FH. That has nothing to do with it, IMHO. I mention this because a lot of people think you should behave as though you are connected by a rope, which would mean he should shift to the middle because you moved to your left to hit your return. No, no no. Using that logic, your partner would shift toward the middle when you run around your BH even if your return went very wide, which would leave the alley wide open. Epic fail.
Your return went up the middle, not a wide crosscourt. Because you ran around your FH, the middle was more open than it normally would be.
Because your return went up the middle, your partner should have shifted toward the middle. The reason he should have done this was the position of the ball you struck -- he should have shifted with the ball, which would have put him more toward the middle.
The reason he should have shifted toward the middle was *not* because you had run around your FH. That has nothing to do with it, IMHO. I mention this because a lot of people think you should behave as though you are connected by a rope, which would mean he should shift to the middle because you moved to your left to hit your return. No, no no. Using that logic, your partner would shift toward the middle when you run around your BH even if your return went very wide, which would leave the alley wide open. Epic fail.
Your partner should have edged more to the middle based upon the angle of your return.
That said, your opponent hit the choice return - straight down the middle; both net players must take responsibilty for these, however. It's better that both of you go for it rather than both leaving it!
If your return was deep and with some pace, you just have to say great shot to your opponent; it happens.
That said, your opponent hit the choice return - straight down the middle; both net players must take responsibilty for these, however. It's better that both of you go for it rather than both leaving it!
If your return was deep and with some pace, you just have to say great shot to your opponent; it happens.
fuzz nation
G.O.A.T.
Sounds like the server's second shot that went between you guys was just too good, but the opening up the middle was also there for him and he cashed in on the opportunity.
Given four players of the same level, you can usually expect the doubles team with the better positioning throughout the match to dominate more often. In the case of this point, the setup that you and your partner had at the outset may have left "main street" a bit too open.
In the wake of the server's delivery, you have to react to that ball as the returner just to hit it back over the net, but according to your description, it sounds like the serve didn't pull you too hard to either side. In moving over to hit a forehand, you may have effectively opened the door up the middle.
Your partner will only have time to slide about a step or so left or right in reaction to the placement of the serve, but can't reposition too dramatically after your return, so it's important for him (or her) to be in a good spot at the start of the point. If your partner's set position was too close to the alley, that would leave an opening in the middle, too.
Remember that you have some control over things, even when returning. If your partner knows where you intend to put your return, you're a lot more likely to get some help with cutting off the second shot from your opponents. Even if your return isn't a nasty bullet, your partner can jump up into the server's grill to take away some of his options - as long as he knows where you're looking to place the ball.
Given four players of the same level, you can usually expect the doubles team with the better positioning throughout the match to dominate more often. In the case of this point, the setup that you and your partner had at the outset may have left "main street" a bit too open.
In the wake of the server's delivery, you have to react to that ball as the returner just to hit it back over the net, but according to your description, it sounds like the serve didn't pull you too hard to either side. In moving over to hit a forehand, you may have effectively opened the door up the middle.
Your partner will only have time to slide about a step or so left or right in reaction to the placement of the serve, but can't reposition too dramatically after your return, so it's important for him (or her) to be in a good spot at the start of the point. If your partner's set position was too close to the alley, that would leave an opening in the middle, too.
Remember that you have some control over things, even when returning. If your partner knows where you intend to put your return, you're a lot more likely to get some help with cutting off the second shot from your opponents. Even if your return isn't a nasty bullet, your partner can jump up into the server's grill to take away some of his options - as long as he knows where you're looking to place the ball.
hers my 2 cents
yes your partner should shift to the middle just like cindy said. that doesnt mean its his ball tho .at least not yet.
as an aside for you to have hit your return where you did shouldnt the servers net man have poached that???(hold that thought)
you are also responsible to pinch the middle.and although your partner had less to worry about covering the alley do to where the server made contact with your return he does have to guard that alittle.
so i always say the cross court ball (in this case not very cross court) is the responsibility of the crosscourt player (ie you).
still a ball perfectly spiltting your 2 positions is just a good shot and in reality you both should have gone for it
what do you think about that??
yes your partner should shift to the middle just like cindy said. that doesnt mean its his ball tho .at least not yet.
as an aside for you to have hit your return where you did shouldnt the servers net man have poached that???(hold that thought)
you are also responsible to pinch the middle.and although your partner had less to worry about covering the alley do to where the server made contact with your return he does have to guard that alittle.
so i always say the cross court ball (in this case not very cross court) is the responsibility of the crosscourt player (ie you).
still a ball perfectly spiltting your 2 positions is just a good shot and in reality you both should have gone for it
what do you think about that??
GetBetterer
Hall of Fame
Take the initiative and go for it instead. About 99% of people psychologically will let it go for their ally (which is why I hate doubles).
I also would have recommended you to hit it. You said you were up at net and you could have half-volleyed the shot. That's going to be a pretty hard shot that would bring your serving friend up to the net, so it may have been better for you to hit it.
I also would have recommended you to hit it. You said you were up at net and you could have half-volleyed the shot. That's going to be a pretty hard shot that would bring your serving friend up to the net, so it may have been better for you to hit it.
naylor
Semi-Pro
How hard was the serve, and where exactly did your return bounce - around the service line, deep close to the baseline, or somewhere in between?
Let me explain. If the serve didn't have much pace on, and it was mainly placement close to the middle of the service line (basically, a jammer at the body), then you as returner have a lot of choices to play that put the opponent at the net in trouble - a whipped forehand topspin dipper to his trams, and hard flat drive straight at them, a topspin lob over them, or the forehand down the T you played. In that situation, the netman simply stood his ground and did nothing - so at least, he didn't sell himself and opened a gap for you - and simply bet on good reactions if the ball went close to him.
Now, your return. If it was deep on the baseline, then the server effectively played the equivalent of a singles' running pass down the line when pulled wide. One heck of a good shot. However, the shorter your ball was, the greater the chance you gave him to actually run into the court and take the ball earlier (and possibly, higher on the bounce) so he can both play a more forcing shot, and also take time away from you (ie, don't give you and your partner enough time to close the gap in the middle).
You mention you could have picked the ball on a half-volley. To me, that suggests he managed to put both quite a bit of pace and topspin on his ball, to get it to bounce in front of you - it's the equivalent of a return to the shoelaces to a S&V server, so if the serve is good, the return has to be even better (taken early, with power or using the server's power). My guess therefore is that your ball was a bit too short, so he was able to run forward to take it early and hit it down at you. He may well have intended to follow his serve into the net, and your return (which might have troubled him had you gone straight back to him) instead fell into his forehand wheelhouse once he adjusted his position to move right to cover his partner.
How do you defend against it? Well, don't go for that kind of shot again! If you can have a go at the netman because the serve falls nicely in your wheelhouse, then have a proper go - but make sure that once you get the ball past him it's a winner (so, in your case, if you go on his inside down the middle, then put both pace and depth on in). Or if you don't have a go at the netman, then play a return to the server that will neutralise them (bootlaces if he's a volleyer, deep to where he served from, or short acute angle, if he stays back). The point about playing a neutralising return is that it brings your partner into the game (ie, he can move into a net-attacking position, with you backing him up on a stagger, so the entire net is covered) for a possible put-away if the server's next ball is weak.
The servers net guy didn't make a play bc it was a heavy ball and right off his left hip. Also for clarity, the ball was on the duece side of the court when the server hit his running forehand so it wasn't cross court to me, it was more cross court to my partner. Basically I went at the net guy and it went right by him but server (Mr. Rabbit) was able to make a play on it.
you returned from the ad side.and was on the ad side after your shot
the server hit the ball on the duece side
thats cross court to me.
5263
G.O.A.T.
wouldn't ad court to ad court generally be crosscourt?
not ad court to duce court, right?
5263
G.O.A.T.
you are 100% correct. my bad
You had me scratching my head, cause I know you are generally on the money.
i figured the return landed near the center but on the ad side with the ad player (server) hitting it thus cross court ...ad to ad. when the op said it was hit on the deuce side i blocked that out.
p.s. thanks for the compliment
Pretty straight forward... one of the two of you should have had the ball... You are correct though that your partner should have shifted forward and into the middle a little to protect the middle of the court. My number one rule is you should never be beaten in the middle of the court... if you are going to leave something open... force your opponent to hit the more difficult shot up the wings.
If you had returned the ball wide outside the court your partner would need to move up and to his right to protect a shot up the line and your responsibility would be the cross-court return over the middle of the court.
If you had returned the ball wide outside the court your partner would need to move up and to his right to protect a shot up the line and your responsibility would be the cross-court return over the middle of the court.
