AO, W and USO have all fallen to the young guns - RG remains the final unconquered mountain

[Rosstour]

But maybe the wear tear of playing all those extra matches might have impacted him later.

Wait, you think he is going to win 3 more each at RG and W? You can't be serious.

Bro why not. He's the greatest ever right?

 

[Rosstour]

Djokovic won’t play much longer. Especially if say Rafa retires soon. Once nadal goes then Djokovic will quickly follow him.

He already missing his wife and kids a lot. The motivation just won’t be the same without his biggest rivals and having most of the records. The young players are good enough to beat him in majors now too.

It’s time for the younger generation to win more and take over. 1 more slam for both Djokovic and Nadal would be fitting before they retire and the game fully moves on.

I see it differently. I see a guy who's so mad about being overlooked, slighted etc his while career that he's lighting the whole world on fire to prove they were all wrong. Especially after COVID it's been one long revenge tour and he isn't done yet.

 

[NattyGut]

Status update on Rafa?

 

[bluetrain4]

After Sinner's incredible post USO run ended with his first slam title win at AO, between him and Alcaraz we have now seen the youngest champions we have had for a while at three of the four slams. Alcaraz winning USO at 19, then W at 20 and now Sinner with AO at 22.

The only one that remains is RG. Will see the complete set of grand slams reset this season?

I'd think this could be the year. At this point, I can't see Nadal making one last stand (though I hope to see him there and it would be cool if a miracle happens), so it's really on Novak. Despite the Sinner beatdown at the AO, anyone writing Novak off is crazy. But, there is a better-than-it's-been-in-a-long-time chance that it's not Novak. Side question - could it be a young gun other than Sinner or Alcaraz?

 

[mike danny]

Djoko may be a bit declined but he's smarter than ever. The Djokodal of 2017+ were mentally impregnable. Can't say that about their younger selves

Nadal was much more mentally impregnable when he was younger.

 

[Hitman]

Bro why not. He's the greatest ever right?

 

[Hitman]

I'd think this could be the year. At this point, I can't see Nadal making one last stand (though I hope to see him there and it would be cool if a miracle happens), so it's really on Novak. Despite the Sinner beatdown at the AO, anyone writing Novak off is crazy. But, there is a better-than-it's-been-in-a-long-time chance that it's not Novak. Side question - could it be a young gun other than Sinner or Alcaraz?

Well, no player has ever won their first two slams back to back, so odds are against Sinner at this stage.

 

[Rosstour]

Nadal was much more mentally impregnable when he was younger.

Over time all three of the B3 improved their games and tactics. The obstacle is the body. Federer was able to stay in top form more or less until 38/39. Rafa seems to have truly lasted only til around 36. Djoko still going at 37.

 

[mike danny]

Over time all three of the B3 improved their games and tactics. The obstacle is the body. Federer was able to stay in top form more or less until 38/39. Rafa seems to have truly lasted only til around 36. Djoko still going at 37.

I know, but Nadal was still mentally tougher when younger.

 

[DSH]

Berdych was better than this Sinner at AO 12 and he was still 5 best player in the draw by level.

Berdych was 26 and at his peak, Sinner is 22 and at the beginning of his prime.
They are not comparable.

 

[DSH]

If Nadal wins Olympic gold in Paris, would you be depressed, Vive?

 

[DSH]

I'd think this could be the year. At this point, I can't see Nadal making one last stand (though I hope to see him there and it would be cool if a miracle happens), so it's really on Novak. Despite the Sinner beatdown at the AO, anyone writing Novak off is crazy. But, there is a better-than-it's-been-in-a-long-time chance that it's not Novak. Side question - could it be a young gun other than Sinner or Alcaraz?

Rune's best surface at the moment is clay, so we must consider that the Dane could be considered one of the top 8 favorites to win RG.

 

[Hitman]

If Nadal wins Olympic gold in Paris, would you be depressed, Vive?

Would you?

 

[duaneeo]

But to me it's still uncoqured if it literally takes Nadal to retire and Djokovic to be 37+ years old for it to "fall". The young guys failed and failed miserably. Same thing with the AO and Wimbledon if the only obstacle was beating a 36/37ish year old Djokovic no matter how good he still was. The USO is the only Slam to me that had a major breakthrough a la Del Potro in 2009 or a zoning Cilic in 2014.

It's pathetic, it truly is. Sinner winning the AO this year is meaningless in my eyes. It's like Berdych winning a Slam in 2012 with the big 3 all being on vacation. Wow what an accomplishment. You're still a carrotman with zero variety who needed the big boys to either retire or become really old to do anything meanigful.

2014 Cilic a major breakthrough? He didn't beat Djokovic, Nadal, Murray, or Wawrinka, but a past-prime slamidous-suffering Federer. Nishikori did all the hard work.

Other than that, I agree with the gist of your post. But Sinner/Alcaraz shouldn't be blamed for the two generations of mugs before them. Those players are the ones who failed to send Djokovic into forced retirement. He would've won the last 5 slams if not for two players who haven't yet reached their peaks.

 

[vive le beau jeu !]

If Nadal wins Olympic gold in Paris, would you be depressed, Vive?

not 'depressed'... but any win by the nadal is, obviously and regardless of the round, always a highly unfortunate result.

 

[DSH]

not 'depressed'... but any win by the nadal is, obviously and regardless of the round, always a highly unfortunate result.

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

not 'depressed'... but any win by the nadal is, obviously and regardless of the round, always a highly unfortunate result.

Would you take a deal that he wins OG in Paris if that means that he immediately retires for good afterwards?

 

[nolefam_2024]

Carlos will become the Edmund Hillary to RG’s Everest

 

[vive le beau jeu !]

Would you take a deal that he wins OG in Paris if that means that he immediately retires for good afterwards?

it's tempting... but let's be honest: i'd prefer a 1st round denadalization immediately followed by an irrevocable retirement

 

[tennis_pro]

Good post but don't forget Novak had 3 slams last year so his defeat should be counted as being conquered, his fans claimed he's as good as 2015 and 2011 playing his best tennis.

He had a 3 major year at 36, because the competition was mediocre at best. He's 1/3 as good as in 2011/2015. Actual peak Djokovic would make mincemeat out of current Djokovic.

Did you watch any of the AO this year?

Some matches, good on paper. In practice the same rally in ever match played over and over again. These guys have zero variety, it's just mindless baseline botting.

Is it possible that Djokovic is at least still motivated enough to win even smaller titles in order to place himself between Federer and Connors?
Is that at least still feasible?

I don't think he cares.

Djoko may be a bit declined but he's smarter than ever. The Djokodal of 2017+ were mentally impregnable. Can't say that about their younger selves

Federer is probably smarter than ever now at 43 too. 2011 Djokovic would murder 2023 Djokovic.

2014 Cilic a major breakthrough? He didn't beat Djokovic, Nadal, Murray, or Wawrinka, but a past-prime slamidous-suffering Federer. Nishikori did all the hard work.

Other than that, I agree with the gist of your post. But Sinner/Alcaraz shouldn't be blamed for the two generations of mugs before them. Those players are the ones who failed to send Djokovic into forced retirement. He would've won the last 5 slams if not for two players who haven't yet reached their peaks.

Major breakthrough as in had to beat a giant to win a Slam fair and square. Fed was in pretty good form and he had nothing to say. To me that was one the most in zone tournaments from a player ever, especially in the QF-SF-F.

 

[mike danny]

I'm actually surprised that RG wasn't the first to fall to the young guys since clay is a young man's surface.

 

[mike danny]

Major breakthrough as in had to beat a giant to win a Slam fair and square. Fed was in pretty good form and he had nothing to say. To me that was one the most in zone tournaments from a player ever, especially in the QF-SF-F.

Would not go that far. He had to come back from 0-2 down and save MP against Monfils.

 

[helterskelter]

I'm actually surprised that RG wasn't the first to fall to the young guys since clay is a young man's surface.

Yeah. Though they are taught a form of tennis that is most effective on hard courts these days, so that might be part of it. Another factor is Bull being so dominant on clay, but that only gets us so far given that Djokovic has won two of the last three Roland Garroses. I wonder whether them having generally poor stamina has been a factor at RG given that best of five matches on clay are longer than any other type of match on tour, on the whole? The big surprise is Wimbledon.

 

[mike danny]

Yeah. Though they are taught a form of tennis that is most effective on hard courts these days, so that might be part of it. Another factor is Bull being so dominant on clay, but that only gets us so far given that Djokovic has won two of the last three Roland Garroses. I wonder whether them having generally poor stamina has been a factor at RG given that best of five matches on clay are longer than any other type of match on tour, on the whole? The big surprise is Wimbledon.

Nadal is an anomaly, but yeah, Djokovic winning 2 titles in his mid 30's does put a wrench in things. He has no business being the oldest RG winner in the Open Era, IMO.

Even if matches on clay are longer, that should suit the younger people, not the older ones.

 

[duaneeo]

Major breakthrough as in had to beat a giant to win a Slam fair and square. Fed was in pretty good form and he had nothing to say. To me that was one the most in zone tournaments from a player ever, especially in the QF-SF-F.

Federer was 33, hadn't won the USO in 7 years, and wasn't at all in good form in the semis. Djokovic was 36, was the defending AO champion, and got in good form after the first 2 sets of the semis. Sinner went on to beat Medvedev in the final, while 25 year old Cilic beat a depleted first-time slam finalist Nishikori.

 

[StrongRule]

Federer was 33, hadn't won the USO in 7 years, and wasn't at all in good form in the semis. Djokovic was 36, was the defending AO champion, and got in good form after the first 2 sets of the semis. Sinner went on to beat Medvedev in the final, while 25 year old Cilic beat a depleted first-time slam finalist Nishikori.

Agree. I never understood why Cilic's USO 2014 run is overrated so much. Other players gets bashed for winning with MUCH tougher competition.

 

[InsideOut900]

I'm actually surprised that RG wasn't the first to fall to the young guys since clay is a young man's surface.

Well, Tsitsi, Zed and Raz failed to take the crown in consecutive years in winnable matches. There was definitely some luck involved after Nadal's 2020.

AO and Grass were held the tightest, because no one came close to winning them until Raz last year (AO 2022 is a fake Slam ), mostly because they were Novak's best Slams and he is the most dominant of the Big 3 and since 2019 and the last man standing too.

 

[Rosstour]

Nadal is an anomaly, but yeah, Djokovic winning 2 titles in his mid 30's does put a wrench in things. He has no business being the oldest RG winner in the Open Era, IMO.

Even if matches on clay are longer, that should suit the younger people, not the older ones.

Stamina peaks in the 30s

Those kids are clueless still. And they don't have half the money in physios and treatments that Djoko has.

 

[socallefty]

Most oddsmakers have Alcaraz, Djokovic, Nadal and Sinner as the top favorites for the FO even after Sinner’s dominant win in Australia. I am a bit surprised that Sinner does not have better odds.

 

[Move]

Most oddsmakers have Alcaraz, Djokovic, Nadal and Sinner as the top favorites for the FO even after Sinner’s dominant win in Australia. I am a bit surprised that Sinner does not have better odds.

Now the physical side is covered (the pollen allergy too i hope) and he is brimming with confidence watch him on a dry and sunny day on clay, it will be ... nuclear. Umag 2023 on repeat