Are Tennis players the most odd and fussy athelets

[dgold44]

IS there any sport even remotely close ??

Player A wont play with Player B because he cannot pick the tennis balls

John wont play with Dave because he dislikes his push style and length of the points

Dan only prefers to warm up for 7 minutes and will only play Thurs from 7:22 to 8:35

Jared wont play with Alex for 3 months because he finally beat him and wants to savior the win.

Stan wont play with Joseph because he may have accidendly made 2 bad calls in their previous 7 matches

Brad wont play with John because he hates playing serve and volley players and it messes up his timing

MAx is too chatty on the change over ??? Jenny shows up 7 min late because of traffic all the time. ???
Susie wont play with Jessica because she questioned one call out of a dozen matches.
NY man plays way too competitive and refuses to take it easy on me ??
Zach wont play again with Noah because he viewed his FAcebook page and saw he has a different political orientation.
Rob now hates Jim because it took him a full day to respond to his text message because he was busy with a work problem


Utterly impossible to please a tennis player. Come on man.

 

[tennis tom]

The problem is that most people who play tennis AREN'T athletes. For the majority its's a social activity and not an athletic one. It's an excuse to get out of the house to swat a few fuzzy spheres--preferably someone else's, for about an hour and a half--after which they have no clue as to what brand or number balls they have played with.

Rec tennis is a caste system between the 3.5's and the 4.0's--the 3.0's and below, don't count-- and the 4.5's and above, don't care. Social/wrek tennis, affords great opportunities to diss and ignore fellow club members. These dis/ignorances are over petty feuds, stemming from incidents years ago, where one player treated another worse then they would treat their lap/phoney service dog--which probably can serve better then they can, if they made doggie style rackets. The ratio of tennis played, to hanging out with a merlot/chardonay/or beer in hand, is about 1:10.

If the club gives up it's courts for a few days a year, to host a real tournament, there better be at least four parties, to appease the members for depriving them of their swell/swill time. If there's tennis on TV in the lounge or bar, channels will be switched to some other sport, they haven't participated in since they were nine years old. The maturity level of the average club/rec player is grammar school 3rd to 4th grade--which coincidentally corresponds to their ratings. If they were "athletes" they would be playing/practicing tennis or working on their fitness for an average of 10:1 ratio opposed to socializing and quaffing, with their back turned on the match going on the court behind them, with a couple of vet players, who once played in the Whimby finals.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

The problem is that most people who play tennis AREN'T athletes. For the majority its's a social activity and not an athletic one. It's an excuse to get out of the house swat a few fuzzy spheres--preferably someone else's--that after having in their hands for about an hour and a half they have no clue as to what brand of number they are. It's a caste system between the 3.5's and the 4.0's--the 3.0's and below don't count and the 4.5's and above don't care. It affords great opportunities to diss and ignore fellow club members over petty feuds stemming from incidents years ago, where one player treated another worse then they would treat their lap/phoney/service dog. The ratio of tennis to hanging out with a merlot/chardonay/or beer is about 1:10. If the club gives up it's courts for a few days to host a real tournament, there better be at least four parties to appease the members for depriving them of their swill time. If there's tennis on TV in the lounge or bar, the channel will be switched to some other sport that they haven't participated in since they were nine years old. The maturity level of your average club/rec player is 3rd to 4th grade--which coincidentally corresponds to their rating. If they were "athletes" they would be playing/practicing tennis or working on their fitness an average of 10:1 ratio to socializing and quaffing.

Bingo. Actual good athletes (people who played large division high school and college sports including but not limited to tennis) get to 4.5 quickly and don't look back. Guy played D3 college baseball? Won't be long until 4.5. Girl played D2 volleyball? 4.5 very quickly. Why? Athletes are athletes. And everyone at the local club thinks of themselves as athletic until a real athlete comes along and you realize they aren't going to be 3.0 very long, they aren't concerned about the heel pad placement on their semi western grip forehand, no one has to tell them to quit the waiters tray serve because they have thrown a ball before and know what it feels like, etc. They just figure those things out. They have seen tennis on TV and they can mimic the movements with a great deal of accuracy after only a couple of tries. Played mixed with a new girl who was a high school softball all star or ran track? Better get your mixed doubles in now, because she is about 18 months from 4.5 (if she is trying). Your buddy was a third string D1 QB at an SEC school and is now 37 with a beer gut? He will serve his way to 4.5 in 18 months if he wants to. Neither of those two spends months obsessing over YouTube videos about where to put your pinky finger on a grip, or how to toss the ball straight up in the air so you can serve it. They just play ball. If I've seen it once I've seen it 1,000 times.

 

[amlemus]

Bingo. Actual good athletes (people who played large division high school and college sports including but not limited to tennis) get to 4.5 quickly and don't look back. Guy played D3 college baseball? Won't be long until 4.5. Girl played D2 volleyball? 4.5 very quickly. Why? Athletes are athletes. And everyone at the local club thinks of themselves as athletic until a real athlete comes along and you realize they aren't going to be 3.0 very long, they aren't concerned about the heel pad placement on their semi western grip forehand, no one has to tell them to quit the waiters tray serve because they have thrown a ball before and know what it feels like, etc. They just figure those things out. They have seen tennis on TV and they can mimic the movements with a great deal of accuracy after only a couple of tries. Played mixed with a new girl who was a high school softball all star or ran track? Better get your mixed doubles in now, because she is about 18 months from 4.5 (if she is trying). Your buddy was a third string D1 QB at an SEC school and is now 37 with a beer gut? He will serve his way to 4.5 in 18 months if he wants to. Neither of those two spends months obsessing over YouTube videos about where to put your pinky finger on a grip, or how to toss the ball straight up in the air so you can serve it. They just play ball. If I've seen it once I've seen it 1,000 times.

I've heard this a lot from my opponents in my 3.0-3.5 leagues (7-1 combined record this season) that I've played in so far. They ask me how long I've been playing and when I say 4-5 months, they don't believe me. I played soccer most of my life (or other form of athletics) at a reasonably high level and have given a fair amount of time/practice towards tennis since I started a few months back. The pro I've gone to a few times and I get on the same page a lot during our sessions, with the most important piece of advice being "There is no improvement without practice."

If you've got the time and the will to replicate something you've seen either in a Youtube video or in a pro match, go figure out how to do it and put in the time. Watching something won't magically make it happen during a match.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

IS there any sport even remotely close ??

Player A wont play with Player B because he cannot pick the tennis balls

John wont play with Dave because he dislikes his push style and length of the points

Dan only prefers to warm up for 7 minutes and will only play Thurs from 7:22 to 8:35

Jared wont play with Alex for 3 months because he finally beat him and wants to savior the win.

Stan wont play with Joseph because he may have accidendly made 2 bad calls in their previous 7 matches

Brad wont play with John because he hates playing serve and volley players and it messes up his timing

MAx is too chatty on the change over ??? Jenny shows up 7 min late because of traffic all the time. ???
Susie wont play with Jessica because she questioned one call out of a dozen matches.
NY man plays way too competitive and refuses to take it easy on me ??
Zach wont play again with Noah because he viewed his FAcebook page and saw he has a different political orientation.
Rob now hates Jim because it took him a full day to respond to his text message because he was busy with a work problem


Utterly impossible to please a tennis player. Come on man.

my theory has always been, that the fussiest one's are the ones that have never been punched in the face (or otherwise been in some sort of physical confrontation, ostracized by a team, etc...).
in other sports, if you're the fussy one (primadonna), it gets "corrected" pretty quickly.

 

[amlemus]

my theory has always been, that the fussiest one's are the ones that have never been punched in the face (or otherwise been in some sort of physical confrontation, ostracized by a team, etc...).
in other sports, if you're the fussy one (primadonna), it gets "corrected" pretty quickly.

Yeah it does! It's rare that anyone will get exactly what they want. I'd say that being successful (in any sport) is being able to adapt.

 

[sureshs]

I will play with anyone

 

[Deleted member 23235]

Bingo. Actual good athletes (people who played large division high school and college sports including but not limited to tennis) get to 4.5 quickly and don't look back. Guy played D3 college baseball? Won't be long until 4.5. Girl played D2 volleyball? 4.5 very quickly. Why? Athletes are athletes. And everyone at the local club thinks of themselves as athletic until a real athlete comes along and you realize they aren't going to be 3.0 very long, they aren't concerned about the heel pad placement on their semi western grip forehand, no one has to tell them to quit the waiters tray serve because they have thrown a ball before and know what it feels like, etc. They just figure those things out. They have seen tennis on TV and they can mimic the movements with a great deal of accuracy after only a couple of tries. Played mixed with a new girl who was a high school softball all star or ran track? Better get your mixed doubles in now, because she is about 18 months from 4.5 (if she is trying). Your buddy was a third string D1 QB at an SEC school and is now 37 with a beer gut? He will serve his way to 4.5 in 18 months if he wants to. Neither of those two spends months obsessing over YouTube videos about where to put your pinky finger on a grip, or how to toss the ball straight up in the air so you can serve it. They just play ball. If I've seen it once I've seen it 1,000 times.

definitely seen this myself.
(to me) basketball, baseball and soccer college D1 players, seem to accelerate quickly to 4.5
though, i don't like using the generic term "athletes" which could just mean "good genes" to some..
because it's more than that (and tends to diminish the work they put into getting good).
I think folks with an extensive background in other sports:
a) have a very broad base of movement "vocabulary" that they can draw on... an easy example is telling someone to "split step"... ask anyone who's played basketball, baseball, soccer to do,... it's a 2s comment (ie. maybe they called it something else in their sport), if they aren't already instinctively doing because they know preloading prior to deciding the direction to move, leads to faster movement - so playing a new sport is just making new "sentences" with their already broad "movement vocabulary"
b) already have a great conditioning base... vs. the noob tennis player with no background in sports... they are essentially learning the fundamentals, and training for a decent 400m time (ie. to get to 4.5)
c) they are usually very good at learning and developing a mental model (ie. visual learners, taking instruction, etc...), and can apply those same concepts to learning tennis

then there's the "genes" part, the raw physical talent of having the right muscle fibers, height, etc... to run faster, jump higher, throw further, etc... but i typically ignore this part, cuz i don't have any of it, so i'll bury my head in the sand and continue to believe that I can work on getting better (in the end i'm so far away from maximizing what little genetic gifts i might have... i don't have the right to ask for more )

 

[sureshs]

Yeah it does! It's rare that anyone will get exactly what they want. I'd say that being successful (in any sport) is being able to adapt.

Successful is really not a term applicable to club players. And I don't think being able to adapt has anything to do with it, other than that if you are inflexible, you will start losing players to play with. But there are plenty of people with a lot of attitude and likes and dislikes who seem to be able to play a lot of leagues and are reasonable 3.5 to 4.0 players.

The likes and dislikes that OP mentions usually do not occur individual to individual, but from clique to clique. Individual dislikes propagate up and eventually end up with the individuals in different cliques.

Having said that, OP vastly exaggerates the problem for dramatic effect.

 

[amlemus]

Successful is really not a term applicable to club players. And I don't think being able to adapt has anything to do with it, other than that if you are inflexible, you will start losing players to play with. But there are plenty of people with a lot of attitude and likes and dislikes who seem to be able to play a lot of leagues and are reasonable 3.5 to 4.0 players.

The likes and dislikes that OP mentions usually do not occur individual to individual, but from clique to clique. Individual dislikes propagate up and eventually end up with the individuals in different cliques.

Having said that, OP vastly exaggerates the problem for dramatic effect.

I suppose I'm just speaking more as a lifelong competitive athlete that wants to succeed at a new sport. Oh well.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

Successful is really not a term applicable to club players. And I don't think being able to adapt has anything to do with it, other than that if you are inflexible, you will start losing players to play with. But there are plenty of people with a lot of attitude and likes and dislikes who seem to be able to play a lot of leagues and are reasonable 3.5 to 4.0 players.

The likes and dislikes that OP mentions usually do not occur individual to individual, but from clique to clique. Individual dislikes propagate up and eventually end up with the individuals in different cliques.

Having said that, OP vastly exaggerates the problem for dramatic effect.

i agree with OP... i run into alot of drama queens in tennis.... not exaggerating at all.
the higher you go in the NTRP, the less BS you see,...

 

[OnTheLine]

@nytennisaddict ... really exceptional post ... I like your use of the term "vocabulary" .... spot on.
In children, those that come to early grade school with a broad, deep vocabulary will learn everything more readily. Those with a great vocabulary in their native language, will pick up a new language more easily than a student with a shallow vocabulary in their native language.

Athletes in some other sport do have a base just like that language from which they can draw as they take on a new sport.

@Moveforwardalways One caveat on the 18 months to 4.5 thing. Age/injury. Even a top level athlete (I was D1 soccer, US national team in '88), after a certain age or after some level of "permanent" injury, will never get to 4.5. (or back to) I was a ranked 4.5 player as I picked up the sport post-college exactly proving your point (!) and it all came easily to me. Played for a couple years, then took a 25+ year break. Even though I now play 5-6 days a week with dedicated practice, intensity, etc. at my age now, I do not have any chance of getting to 4.5 I don't think.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

@nytennisaddict ... really exceptional post ... I like your use of the term "vocabulary" .... spot on.
In children, those that come to early grade school with a broad, deep vocabulary will learn everything more readily. Those with a great vocabulary in their native language, will pick up a new language more easily than a student with a shallow vocabulary in their native language.

Athletes in some other sport do have a base just like that language from which they can draw as they take on a new sport.

@Moveforwardalways One caveat on the 18 months to 4.5 thing. Age/injury. Even a top level athlete (I was D1 soccer, US national team in '88), after a certain age or after some level of "permanent" injury, will never get to 4.5. (or back to) I was a ranked 4.5 player as I picked up the sport post-college and it all came easily to me. Played for a couple years, then took a 25+ year break. Even though I now play 5-6 days a week with dedicated practice, intensity, etc. at my age now, I do not have any chance of getting to 4.5 I don't think.

thx for the comment

regarding age/injury... biggest issue i see in tennis or running or whatever, is folks going too hard, too fast, too soon.
i'm sure with some sort of periodization, you could get to 4.5.
* serve 100 balls a day (no more) - think of it as your age "pitch count"
* drop weight if you have any... if you can get back to your fighting weight (ie. when you were on the us national team), your body will thank you.
* do more recovery work off the court (foam/lacross ball rolling, yoga, etc...)
* play smarter... i used to be in the bash-unti-they-miss camp... but now i don't have the endurance, and ran into alot of much-better-bashers... instead of trying to hit the shot i like (which usually goes right into a basher's strikezone), i think more about hitting the shot they don't like... which you'll find might be less taxing on your body (ie. as a former soccer player you might be relying solely on your movement prowess). learn to recognize short balls, learn to finish at net, learn to slice, hit it short... even learn when to let a ball go, and say "nice shot",... then challenge them to do it again and again and again.

IMO learning ball handling in soccer is way harder than learning to hit a tennis ball

 

[sureshs]

i agree with OP... i run into alot of drama queens in tennis.... not exaggerating at all.
the higher you go in the NTRP, the less BS you see,...

OP doesn't play enough tennis to have seen all this. He is making a lot up.

 

[Bluefan75]

my theory has always been, that the fussiest one's are the ones that have never been punched in the face (or otherwise been in some sort of physical confrontation, ostracized by a team, etc...).
in other sports, if you're the fussy one (primadonna), it gets "corrected" pretty quickly.

*cough* grayson allen *cough*...

 

[OnTheLine]

Back to OP's topic .... I agree with others that at the club/league level there are two types of players,

First type those that are out having fun playing really enjoying the social side and if they get better or play well, great, if they don't they blame: the humidity, the wind, the clouds got in my eye, I hate playing with so-and-so, I can only play with Penn balls why'd you bring Wilsons?, I can't play unless my partner's outfit matches ..... fussy fussy sometimes, but just fun to play with other times.

Then the 2nd type is the type that is striving to really improve, playing for some internal sense of glory or a berth to Districts/Sectionals/Nationals. They create a different type of drama on and off the court .... they get frustrated with a weaker partner or a strong partner having a bad day. When they have a bad day, watch out because clearly the sky is falling and all on the planet are doomed. They obsess over lineups, sometimes causing rifts in entire teams, feel it is their place to comment on another's play ....Their fussiness is totally different ... still fussy though!

 

[tennis tom]

my theory has always been, that the fussiest one's are the ones that have never been punched in the face (or otherwise been in some sort of physical confrontation, ostracized by a team, etc...).
in other sports, if you're the fussy one (primadonna), it gets "corrected" pretty quickly.

And usually they bring their phoney/service dog down to the court, and treat them better then their hubs or fellow club members--they carry their lap dog while hubs carries their designer tennis bag.

 

[Startzel]

Zach wont play again with Noah because he viewed his FAcebook page and saw he has a different political orientation.

Lol so much this. I made fun of one of my teammates anti abortion Facebook post during the last election and he unfriendee me and blocked my phone number. He wouldn't even text me about a scheduling conflict when our teams played in mixed thus year. He sent it to me via email then wouldn't look at me while our teams were playing.

 

[sureshs]

Lol so much this. I made fun of one of my teammates anti abortion Facebook post during the last election and he unfriendee me and blocked my phone number. He wouldn't even text me about a scheduling conflict when our teams played in mixed thus year. He sent it to me via email then wouldn't look at me while our teams were playing.

Kick these misogynists out of your team

 

[tennis tom]

Lol so much this. I made fun of one of my teammates anti abortion Facebook post during the last election and he unfriendee me and blocked my phone number. He wouldn't even text me about a scheduling conflict when our teams played in mixed thus year. He sent it to me via email then wouldn't look at me while our teams were playing.

I find most athletes are a-political. They don't have time for it, to study all the world's issues in detail becoming experts. They are generally pragmatists--whatever it takes to get the job done and get to the next event.

 

[OnTheLine]

thx for the comment

regarding age/injury... biggest issue i see in tennis or running or whatever, is folks going too hard, too fast, too soon.
i'm sure with some sort of periodization, you could get to 4.5.
* serve 100 balls a day (no more) - think of it as your age "pitch count"
* drop weight if you have any... if you can get back to your fighting weight (ie. when you were on the us national team), your body will thank you.
* do more recovery work off the court (foam/lacross ball rolling, yoga, etc...)
* play smarter... i used to be in the bash-unti-they-miss camp... but now i don't have the endurance, and ran into alot of much-better-bashers... instead of trying to hit the shot i like (which usually goes right into a basher's strikezone), i think more about hitting the shot they don't like... which you'll find might be less taxing on your body (ie. as a former soccer player you might be relying solely on your movement prowess). learn to recognize short balls, learn to finish at net, learn to slice, hit it short... even learn when to let a ball go, and say "nice shot",... then challenge them to do it again and again and again.

IMO learning ball handling in soccer is way harder than learning to hit a tennis ball

You nailed me on this one: relying on movement prowess .... no doubt! I use that to my advantage, allowing me to focus less on shot tolerance and a few other things!
Learning when to let a ball go .... too funny! my favorite coach just told me that on Sunday as I ran down another lob (and got it!) ...

But I use my fitness level to my advantage and can out run, out hustle and out last most opponents. Now if I could just hit the ball where I wanted it to go....

I live on my foam roller and a good dip in the pool to de-compress after a few hours on the courts ... this is particularly effective in the winter (I have a non-heated pool) as it is also some good cryo therapy!

Drop weight .. brother, I am trying. My thyroid was removed a decade ago (cancerous), add the hormone issues of a woman of a certain age and it is a battle. Over a 12 month period I have dropped 48 lbs have 30 to go to get to that fighting weight from college. That being said, I am pleased with where I am .. I have legs that any athlete of any age might kill for, strong as an ox and defined biceps that look like I live at the gym (I don't).

 

[dgold44]

definitely seen this myself.
(to me) basketball, baseball and soccer college D1 players, seem to accelerate quickly to 4.5
though, i don't like using the generic term "athletes" which could just mean "good genes" to some..
because it's more than that (and tends to diminish the work they put into getting good).
I think folks with an extensive background in other sports:
a) have a very broad base of movement "vocabulary" that they can draw on... an easy example is telling someone to "split step"... ask anyone who's played basketball, baseball, soccer to do,... it's a 2s comment (ie. maybe they called it something else in their sport), if they aren't already instinctively doing because they know preloading prior to deciding the direction to move, leads to faster movement - so playing a new sport is just making new "sentences" with their already broad "movement vocabulary"
b) already have a great conditioning base... vs. the noob tennis player with no background in sports... they are essentially learning the fundamentals, and training for a decent 400m time (ie. to get to 4.5)
c) they are usually very good at learning and developing a mental model (ie. visual learners, taking instruction, etc...), and can apply those same concepts to learning tennis

then there's the "genes" part, the raw physical talent of having the right muscle fibers, height, etc... to run faster, jump higher, throw further, etc... but i typically ignore this part, cuz i don't have any of it, so i'll bury my head in the sand and continue to believe that I can work on getting better (in the end i'm so far away from maximizing what little genetic gifts i might have... i don't have the right to ask for more )

NY guy refers to you
Ha

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I played soccer most of my life (or other form of athletics) at a reasonably high level and have given a fair amount of time/practice towards tennis since I started a few months back.

I've heard that soccer players pick up tennis quickly because they inherently understand the value of good footwork vs a beginner tennis player who concentrates on stroke technique.

 

[pc1]

IS there any sport even remotely close ??

Player A wont play with Player B because he cannot pick the tennis balls

John wont play with Dave because he dislikes his push style and length of the points

Dan only prefers to warm up for 7 minutes and will only play Thurs from 7:22 to 8:35

Jared wont play with Alex for 3 months because he finally beat him and wants to savior the win.

Stan wont play with Joseph because he may have accidendly made 2 bad calls in their previous 7 matches

Brad wont play with John because he hates playing serve and volley players and it messes up his timing

MAx is too chatty on the change over ??? Jenny shows up 7 min late because of traffic all the time. ???
Susie wont play with Jessica because she questioned one call out of a dozen matches.
NY man plays way too competitive and refuses to take it easy on me ??
Zach wont play again with Noah because he viewed his FAcebook page and saw he has a different political orientation.
Rob now hates Jim because it took him a full day to respond to his text message because he was busy with a work problem


Utterly impossible to please a tennis player. Come on man.

We play with a guy who while being a very nice guy is very high maintenance! He is probably the worst player of all of us but he has a very high opinion of himself as a player oddly enough! When he played in our singles league a couple of years ago he played seven matches and didn't win a set. I told one player to take it easy on him and he still slaughtered him 6-2 6-2 6-0!

He played a couple times this year outdoors with us and was beaten pretty badly! He could've stayed longer but left very upset!!

So anyway we decided to boost his confidence by getting him set up shots to put away. We even let one of our better players throw a match to him.

Should we have done it? By that I mean throwing matches! It's just an outdoor game that costs no money. It's just casual tennis even though he takes it super seriously. When the guy loses in tennis he is extremely upset

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

We play with a guy who while being a very nice guy is very high maintenance! He is probably the worst player of all of us but he has a very high opinion of himself as a player oddly enough! When he played in our singles league a couple of years ago he played seven matches and didn't win a set. I told one player to take it easy on him and he still slaughtered him 6-2 6-2 6-0!

He played a couple times this year outdoors with us and was beaten pretty badly! He could've stayed longer but left very upset!!

So anyway we decided to boost his confidence by getting him set up shots to put away. We even let one of our better players throw a match to him.

Should we have done it? By that I mean throwing matches! It's just an outdoor game that costs no money. It's just casual tennis even though he takes it super seriously. When the guy loses in tennis he is extremely upset

I don't know if you're doing him any favors. He may now become more insufferable. Did the win boost his confidence and if so, did it lead to better behavior?

He either has to stop taking himself so seriously, which doesn't look to be in the cards, or find a weaker group where he fits in [easier said than done]. Or the rest of the group just has to accept him for what he is and continue on. this might lead to other people deciding to look elsewhere, though.

 

[pc1]

I don't know if you're doing him any favors. He may now become more insufferable. Did the win boost his confidence and if so, did it lead to better behavior?

He either has to stop taking himself so seriously, which doesn't look to be in the cards, or find a weaker group where he fits in [easier said than done]. Or the rest of the group just has to accept him for what he is and continue on. this might lead to other people deciding to look elsewhere, though.

The jury is out whether it'll lead to better behavior. He never really totally acts up but he so serious about winning even though we're playing casual tennis outdoors now during the summer.

Perhaps we should just let him play some singles against some of our better than average players. He will get slaughtered. Problem is a lot of the guys kind of feel sorry for him so that's why we do it.

His problem is that he has very little power and spin so we could just generally overwhelm him without breaking much of a sweat. And most of the guys are more consistent than him.

One of the guys has a lefty heavy spin slice serve that he barely can touch!

And yes the wins did boost his confidence.

 

[dgold44]

We play with a guy who while being a very nice guy is very high maintenance! He is probably the worst player of all of us but he has a very high opinion of himself as a player oddly enough! When he played in our singles league a couple of years ago he played seven matches and didn't win a set. I told one player to take it easy on him and he still slaughtered him 6-2 6-2 6-0!

He played a couple times this year outdoors with us and was beaten pretty badly! He could've stayed longer but left very upset!!

So anyway we decided to boost his confidence by getting him set up shots to put away. We even let one of our better players throw a match to him.

Should we have done it? By that I mean throwing matches! It's just an outdoor game that costs no money. It's just casual tennis even though he takes it super seriously. When the guy loses in tennis he is extremely upset

No that is the worst thing to do as he needs to face reality that he stinks

 

[amlemus]

I've heard that soccer players pick up tennis quickly because they inherently understand the value of good footwork vs a beginner tennis player who concentrates on stroke technique.

The feet stay quick, but the positioning is definitely a new skill to learn. On the speed front, it is ridiculously fun to surprise people by hunting down drop shots that would otherwise be surefire points.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

@nytennisaddict ... really exceptional post ... I like your use of the term "vocabulary" .... spot on.
In children, those that come to early grade school with a broad, deep vocabulary will learn everything more readily. Those with a great vocabulary in their native language, will pick up a new language more easily than a student with a shallow vocabulary in their native language.

Athletes in some other sport do have a base just like that language from which they can draw as they take on a new sport.

@Moveforwardalways One caveat on the 18 months to 4.5 thing. Age/injury. Even a top level athlete (I was D1 soccer, US national team in '88), after a certain age or after some level of "permanent" injury, will never get to 4.5. (or back to) I was a ranked 4.5 player as I picked up the sport post-college exactly proving your point (!) and it all came easily to me. Played for a couple years, then took a 25+ year break. Even though I now play 5-6 days a week with dedicated practice, intensity, etc. at my age now, I do not have any chance of getting to 4.5 I don't think.

I agree. I think age and injuries are obviously exceptions. No one expects someone with a broken leg to play 3.5 much less 4.5. As you mentioned, prior to injury, you became a 4.5 quickly. However, USTA accounts for age in their leagues.

 

[R1FF]

This thread is awesome. On every level.

 

[R1FF]

I've heard that soccer players pick up tennis quickly because they inherently understand the value of good footwork vs a beginner tennis player who concentrates on stroke technique.

It's not just a soccer thing. Footwork is the critical foundation for EVERY sport. Maybe moreso in other sports because poor footwork can throw off the other variables exponentially.

Teach a 300 lb offensive lineman from football how to play tennis and you'd see him pick it up quickly as well. Most dont realize how technical footwork is for NFL lineman/all players.

During my first 2 tennis lessons my teacher wanted to work on my stroke. I stopped him and demanded all the focus was on my footwork. He was a bit perplexed at this but obliged.

If you've played one sport at a highly competitive level you've played them all. Footwork is everything.

 

[R1FF]

I find most athletes are a-political. They don't have time for it, to study all the world's issues in detail becoming experts. They are generally pragmatists--whatever it takes to get the job done and get to the next event.

The trials & tribulations of athletics throughout ones life enstills a healthy respect for "survival of the fittest". That becomes their pragmatism. Tho they also want to be treated fairly in life because well, sports rules are written to be fair.

This leads to a socially liberal & economically conservative mindset. Which is the best of both worlds imo.

But yeah, they tend to remain agnostic on most poltical/social topics. I think it has to do with the fact that once you become an "expert" at something, you know what that looks like. And you know what it doesnt. Any athlete who has dedicated themself to a sport has to feel extremely inept in anything outside of that realm. Be it politics or trying a new sport. And since accomplished athletes are typically very honest/harsh judges when looking in the mirror, they know their inadequacy when talking politics.

As a athlete you learn very early on to be brutally honest with youself and trust "experts" such as coaches. It teaches humility and a appreciation & acceptance that their are people smarter than you.

Facebook/twitter is a cesspool of people who refuse to accept that reality despite their lack of life experience.

 

[dgold44]

The trials & tribulations of athletics throughout ones life enstills a healthy respect for "survival of the fittest". That becomes their pragmatism. Tho they also want to be treated fairly in life because well, sports rules are written to be fair.

This leads to a socially liberal & economically conservative mindset. Which is the best of both worlds imo.

But yeah, they tend to remain agnostic on most poltical/social topics. I think it has to do with the fact that once you become an "expert" at something, you know what that looks like. And you know what it doesnt. Any athlete who has dedicated themself to a sport has to feel extremely inept in anything outside of that realm. Be it politics or trying a new sport. And since accomplished athletes are typically very honest/harsh judges when looking in the mirror, they know their inadequacy when talking politics.

As a athlete you learn very early on to be brutally honest with youself and trust "experts" such as coaches. It teaches humility and a appreciation & acceptance that their are people smarter than you.

Facebook/twitter is a cesspool of people who refuse to accept that reality despite their lack of life experience.

I am sure lebron James could get to 4.0 in a few years

 

[R1FF]

I am sure lebron James could get to 4.0 in a few years

It'd take a athlete like Lebron just a few months. If he went into it with a open mind.

I have found that most ELITE athletes do not like learning new sports. They struggle being bad at something. Despite the fact that if they put their mind to it they could be good at virtually anything. But most end up one trick ponies.

 

[dgold44]

It'd take a athlete like Lebron just a few months. If he went into it with a open mind.

I have found that most ELITE athletes do not like learning new sports. They struggle being bad at something. Despite the fact that if they put their mind to it they could be good at virtually anything. But most end up one trick ponies.

Yes Michael Jordan still is not good in golf

 

[dgold44]

It'd take a athlete like Lebron just a few months. If he went into it with a open mind.

I have found that most ELITE athletes do not like learning new sports. They struggle being bad at something. Despite the fact that if they put their mind to it they could be good at virtually anything. But most end up one trick ponies.

No way
2-5 yrs

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

It'd take a athlete like Lebron just a few months. If he went into it with a open mind.

I have found that most ELITE athletes do not like learning new sports. They struggle being bad at something. Despite the fact that if they put their mind to it they could be good at virtually anything. But most end up one trick ponies.

You ought to get together with @TimeToPlaySets - he has a strongly contrarian opinion to yours.

 

[R1FF]

No way
2-5 yrs

How much time have you spent around elite pro athletes?

I can honestly say Ive spent most my adult life with them. In the gym. Competing with/against them. And later as a manager/agent.

The difference in genetics is something the average "fan" often has a hard time grasping. Nevermind the insane work ethic & mental focus. It's a different species of human in many aspects. The intensity in which elite people live is something most civilians have a very hard time fathoming.

It's no different than comparing a guy like Mark Cuban to the guy who owns the local tire shop in your town. Both are entrepreneurs. They aint even close to related tho.

I know how fast Im improving at tennis. With Lebron's genetics, drive, intelligence, and financial resources, he'd advance much faster than I am.

 

[R1FF]

You ought to get together with @TimeToPlaySets - he has a strongly contrarian opinion to yours.

Based on what? How long it takes the "average" human to reach 4.0 status?

Ive personally seen it happen too often. Elite pro athletes are very fast learners because of how they approach learning. Throw in their drive & genetics and this isnt even a debate. There's nothing remotely "average" about a Lebron James.

A guy like Lebron is so much more genetically gifted than the average 4.0 player.

I never understood the role DNA played in sports until I spent time around truly gifted people. It's a paradigm shifter for sure.

If you ever wonder why American soccer does so poorly internationally. Just look at how shallow the genetic talent pool is in that sport. We send our 5th tier athletes to compete against 1st tier guys from Europe & South America. The talent pool in tennis is even shallower than American soccer. A guy like Lebron would crush it.

You got people on these forums who can't play at their best if someone is watching from the bench. That's a distraction?!?! Imagine how much faster these very same people would wilt with a guy like Lebron staring at them from across the net.

 

[Max G.]

People love to focus on technique and touch, but the core of tennis is physical - footwork, speed, leg and core strength. A pro athlete from any sport that involves running around is going to jump to the top of the recreational leagues as soon as they get the bare minimum of technical knowledge.

 

[Bluefan75]

People love to focus on technique and touch, but the core of tennis is physical - footwork, speed, leg and core strength. A pro athlete from any sport that involves running around is going to jump to the top of the recreational leagues as soon as they get the bare minimum of technical knowledge.

No kidding. A number of these posts reek of "Don't give these guys any ideas. I've worked hard to achieve my ranking of 4,267 in my state among 37-year old males with dogs named Rafael. If you get even more of these guys playing, I'll be out of the top 4,300!!"

 

[wings56]

Bingo. Actual good athletes (people who played large division high school and college sports including but not limited to tennis) get to 4.5 quickly and don't look back. Guy played D3 college baseball? Won't be long until 4.5. Girl played D2 volleyball? 4.5 very quickly. Why? Athletes are athletes. And everyone at the local club thinks of themselves as athletic until a real athlete comes along and you realize they aren't going to be 3.0 very long, they aren't concerned about the heel pad placement on their semi western grip forehand, no one has to tell them to quit the waiters tray serve because they have thrown a ball before and know what it feels like, etc. They just figure those things out. They have seen tennis on TV and they can mimic the movements with a great deal of accuracy after only a couple of tries. Played mixed with a new girl who was a high school softball all star or ran track? Better get your mixed doubles in now, because she is about 18 months from 4.5 (if she is trying). Your buddy was a third string D1 QB at an SEC school and is now 37 with a beer gut? He will serve his way to 4.5 in 18 months if he wants to. Neither of those two spends months obsessing over YouTube videos about where to put your pinky finger on a grip, or how to toss the ball straight up in the air so you can serve it. They just play ball. If I've seen it once I've seen it 1,000 times.

Absolutely

 

[Startzel]

No way
2-5 yrs

Lebron would have to self rate as a 3.5 without ever having picked up a racquet. So it wouldn't take him long to be a 4.0.

 

[tennis tom]

I've known and played with ex-pro basketball volleyball players from Europe, who took-up club tennis and made it to play-off 4.0/4.5 teams within a couple of years starting tennis from scratch.They were in their 40's 50's age wise. They took tennis up seriously, played as much as possible, practiced and trained for it. Ex-pro football defensive linesmen not so much.

 

[Mongolmike]

Lebron would have to self rate as a 3.5 without ever having picked up a racquet. So it wouldn't take him long to be a 4.0.

Agreed 100%. Put him at the net in doubles and tell him to destroy. With his height and quickness and hand eye coordination, he would be smashing overheads that fly over any backstop fence. Any 3.5/4.0 partner with a decent serve and LeBron would poach and smash 70% of every return of serve. He is quicker than almost anyone most of us have played against AND he is 6 foot fricken 8 inches tall. Do you know how hard it would be in doubles to get shots past/around an amazingly quick 6'8" guy??

And his height would be a huge advantage for his serves. He can throw a football well, so he would have a naturally inclination to a nice serve motion. Within months he could have a very nice service working with huge room for more improve,ment.

He would track down anything with his speed, quickness and hand eye. Dude is 6'8" and one of the fastest athletes in the NBA - which is full of elite athletes. Run down lobs, easy. Wide angles, with his reach and quicks, got it. Drop shots, yeah right, bring him to the net at your peril.

Come on...give him 3-4 months of coaching on his technique and he is formidable at 3.5 doubles. Would take longer at singles, but he is going to still be tough. Once he got to 4.0, singles will take longer, but he would still be a complete animal in doubles.

 

[sureshs]

It would take him years just to learn the appropriate forehand and backhand grips, and to have a semi-decent serve.

 

[Startzel]

It would take him years just to learn the appropriate forehand and backhand grips, and to have a semi-decent serve.

Or one coaching session.

 

[OrangePower]

Buddy of mine played D1 basketball and then played professionally oversees for about 10 years.
He took up tennis at age 35 having never picked up a racquet before.
He was a 4.5 within 3 years and got bumped up to 5.0 after 5 years at age 40.
He has since been bumped back down to 4.5 (now almost 50) mostly because his mobility has declined substantially (bum knees).

Lebron could easily be a 5.0 within 2-3 years if he started tennis now (and assuming he is motivated).

 

[dgold44]

Or one coaching session.

Many years

James would be 3.0

 

[dgold44]

Buddy of mine played D1 basketball and then played professionally oversees for about 10 years.
He took up tennis at age 35 having never picked up a racquet before.
He was a 4.5 within 3 years and got bumped up to 5.0 after 5 years at age 40.
He has since been bumped back down to 4.5 (now almost 50) mostly because his mobility has declined substantially (bum knees).

Lebron could easily be a 5.0 within 2-3 years if he started tennis now (and assuming he is motivated).

In took joe Dumars several years to make 4.5