teachingprotx
Legend
the blank puma / estusa / head frame .
Anyone have the specs on it or ever played with it?
Anyone have the specs on it or ever played with it?
Becker world champion racket
- Thread starter teachingprotx
- Start date
teachingprotx
Legend
Too rich for my blood but always was curios how it played and hit ..and wonderd if it’s in the mid 50’s RA as I’ve heard that that’s the number which Becker wanted to have a broken in fatigued feel
ahuimanu
Rookie
I played with the Puma frame back in the late 80's. Soft flex geared for serve and volley types (Becker's style). It was fiberglass constructed primarily with a foam core (I believe). The frame also had an adjustable grip which you could extend via a screw at the end of the butt cap. Gotta think the frames would be very fatigued by now (not very well made)...
teachingprotx
Legend
The puma super Becker frame was a 62 ra stiffness . Flexible by today’s standards but back then it was right in line with all the other player sticks aka pro staffs and prestige’s etc .. the puma felt stiffer than the prestige and a tad more soft than the 85 pro staff original 6.0.
The Becker championship frame was supposedly that of exact specs of Boris ‘s
True tried and true frame ... which he liked his frames fatigued supposedly according to the experts ... which should put that blank championship frame in the high 50’s low low 60’s Ra flex.. I don’t know for sure as no one has ever had this frame spec’d out yet . As far as I am aware
The Becker championship frame was supposedly that of exact specs of Boris ‘s
True tried and true frame ... which he liked his frames fatigued supposedly according to the experts ... which should put that blank championship frame in the high 50’s low low 60’s Ra flex.. I don’t know for sure as no one has ever had this frame spec’d out yet . As far as I am aware
teachingprotx
Legend
Wish we knew the flex for sure on the championship model
Henry Hub
Professional
Just picked up off the auction site for a tenner - still has the plastic on the grip and in spit spot condition. No idea how to do an RA test without spaffing a ton of cash - I’ll do a search on here and if there’s a workaround I’ll report back with RAs for the Winner, the Super and the WC.
michael valek
Hall of Fame
I use them as my main frame. I prefer them to the puma (too heavy and the extendable grip system is crappy) and to the estusa (don’t feel as nice). They feel better made probably due to the grip - with the pumas you feel they are separate parts.
teachingprotx
Legend
Oh god she is so glorious! I’d die to have and hit with one ! Absolutely die! Would kill to have the ELUSIVE RA!My god, that is such a beauty !
I've been watching them on *** bay for years but too expensive for me.
How much I'd like to own one, I couldn't tell
Congrats.
teachingprotx
Legend
I have a feeling it’s a 58RA. Anyone else for fun have a guess ?
I would imagine it somewhere between a 62-52 RA.. which is a wide range . But I’ll say ..
58!
Hoping for 52.. but.........hell who am I kiddin if I had it my way it be in the 30’s RA!
I would imagine it somewhere between a 62-52 RA.. which is a wide range . But I’ll say ..
58!
Hoping for 52.. but.........hell who am I kiddin if I had it my way it be in the 30’s RA!
vsbabolat
G.O.A.T.
If you take a close up photo of the label on the racquet I can tell you when it was madeJust picked up off the auction site for a tenner - still has the plastic on the grip and in spit spot condition. No idea how to do an RA test without spaffing a ton of cash - I’ll do a search on here and if there’s a workaround I’ll report back with RAs for the Winner, the Super and the WC.
vsbabolat
G.O.A.T.
The numbers are really smudged. I think I can make out July 24, 1996Here’s a few photos of all of the labels:
Henry Hub
Professional
If that’s from the numbers at the bottom right @vsbabolat , I am having no better luck in deciphering them. The previous owner had put a pink overgrip onto to the top of the plastic wrapper for some reason, hence the smudging and pink tinges!
Thanks anyway, great sleuthing!
Thanks anyway, great sleuthing!
michael valek
Hall of Fame
Open it and use it!!
Sanglier
Professional
Unless you chance upon a mint RDC machine during one of your charity shop raids (which is not entirely implausible, considering your past success), the only sub-"ton-of-cash" option available to most of us is Stringway's "Stringlab 2 + RS attachment" setup. Have a look in the stringing sub-forum and you'll find a few new and old threads there that will tell you all you need to know about this versatile tool. The proprietor of Stringway is active here and is quite responsive; you can get your customer support right here on the forum if you need it.
While the setup is somewhat awkward-looking and not idiot-proof, and I had to make some adjustments on mine to be able to measure older racquets with very thin beams, I found that once you become familiar with its operation, it is very reliable and accurate, with the added benefit of having a small footprint and being portable. The only racquets that I have not been able to properly measure are those with enormous heads (e.g., Weed), very wide throats (le.g., Rival), or multiple handles (e.g.,Innova, Battistone). However, with some effort, I'm sure one can find ways to work around those problems.
The device produces flex measurements with a meaningful unit - kg/cm, which makes a whole lot more sense than the hocus pocus "RA". However, Stringway does provide a conversion table between kg/cm and RA (it's a funky curve, surprise, surprise!) so I was able to fit a polynomial equation to the curve and use the former to automatically convert the readings into RA inside my spreadsheet.
If you plan to measure only a handful of racquets, even the relative low price of this setup may be hard to justify. However, if you intend to continue to grow your collection and measure hundreds of racquets, this would make available to you a lot of information that you simply wouldn't have access to otherwise, such as QC consistency beyond weight and balance (supported by real numbers, not just subjective "feel"), invisible differences between examples of a particular model made by different contractors, and internal adjustments to a model across different production years, etc. It is also a very good way to identify frames that are outwardly intact but have major internal issues, as well as those that are battle-scarred but are nevertheless structurally sound. Plus, when you are not studying your collection, you can use this tool for its primary intended purpose - to help you experiment with string tensions and map out your stringbed using extreme precision.
I bought mine last year before the price increase, after losing out on an original "Quick RA Test" rig on fleabay. It added a whole new dimension to the way I look at my racquets, for way less than $1 per racquet at this point.
tennistiger
Professional
RAs from German Tennismagazin:
Winner 54
Super 62
ProVantech PB 52
Notice that the World Champion Racket has a slightly different mold! Head made a new one in 1992 and did not buy any mold from Sanhosun. That RA is nearly 60.
Winner 54
Super 62
ProVantech PB 52
Notice that the World Champion Racket has a slightly different mold! Head made a new one in 1992 and did not buy any mold from Sanhosun. That RA is nearly 60.
retrowagen
Hall of Fame
A tenner?!??!! Wow! Nice catch!!Just picked up off the auction site for a tenner - still has the plastic on the grip and in spit spot condition. No idea how to do an RA test without spaffing a ton of cash - I’ll do a search on here and if there’s a workaround I’ll report back with RAs for the Winner, the Super and the WC.
vsbabolat
G.O.A.T.
That was a great find anyway! HEAD made Boris Becker £10 is amazing!
michael valek
Hall of Fame
Exactly. Jammy devil. Plus flex wise, it’s not the same racket as the pumas estusas at all. Basically just the same shape. Plays like a pro stock, very nice even balance etc.
NicoMK
Hall of Fame
I have a question though. Are these genuine rackets made for Boris Becker and sold on the general market for a specific occasion (what I seem to recall), I mean with real BB specs (weight, balance etc.) ? Or are they just the closest thing to Boris' actual rackets that you can find?
The other day I saw on the auction site a Bosworth racket customized for Boris, basically a Puma with an Estusa paintjob. Looked gorgeous but the price was far too high. It's still on sale by the way.
The other day I saw on the auction site a Bosworth racket customized for Boris, basically a Puma with an Estusa paintjob. Looked gorgeous but the price was far too high. It's still on sale by the way.
michael valek
Hall of Fame
I think retail, to his specs.
Do you still have the stock weight record before stringing? Mine is really light and have to lead up a bit together with a leather grip and still swing very fast and light unlike the Estusa as you said.
michael valek
Hall of Fame
Just measured an unstrung one, with one overgrip 319g.
tennistiger
Professional
The World Champion has the same basic specs as Beckers personal rackets. Uli Kühnel then made the fine adjustements for Becker which were slightly different from tournament to tournament.
NicoMK
Hall of Fame
teachingprotx
Legend
Dang it ! I was hoping to open up this thread today and miraculously somehow someone measured the true RA of this iteration of Becker’s stick
teachingprotx
Legend
I’m still super blown away that the advantech and provantech are 52 RA .
teachingprotx
Legend
Was the RA above for strung ? Unstrung ?
God I’m hoping unstrung !!!
teachingprotx
Legend
I’m hoping to find a beat up pro or ad van tech to sand down a bit and do a fun paint job . I’m thinking of doing one to this same exact paint job
michael valek
Hall of Fame
I played with a provantech. 18x20. Didn’t like it and didn’t feel very soft.
teachingprotx
Legend
Well crap Michael! Tennis tiger did say provantech PB was a 52 RA. So .. Maybe it’s only the PB PROVANTECH which I think is the black and silver one and the red / blue ones .. since the advantech the white and black checkered one doesn’t say PB ..
@tennistiger ??? What do you think ?
Seems that when I played with the advantech many yrs ago it didn’t feel soft to me at all .. hmmmmmm
What is the actual estusa that is for sure 100% the one with a RA 52..
1. The red and blue provantech PB
OR
2. The black and silver checkered provantech pb ?
Super confusing ..
@tennistiger ??? What do you think ?
Seems that when I played with the advantech many yrs ago it didn’t feel soft to me at all .. hmmmmmm
What is the actual estusa that is for sure 100% the one with a RA 52..
1. The red and blue provantech PB
OR
2. The black and silver checkered provantech pb ?
Super confusing ..
teachingprotx
Legend
The literature I’ve seen from @tennistiger
Says the pro van tech PB
IS A 52RA.. but i can’t tell as it’s in German which provantech PB is it ?
Red / blue PB?
Or
Black / silver checkered PB ?
Says the pro van tech PB
IS A 52RA.. but i can’t tell as it’s in German which provantech PB is it ?
Red / blue PB?
Or
Black / silver checkered PB ?
teachingprotx
Legend
My luck it would be the red and blue model only , as it’s a million $$ used
teachingprotx
Legend
Mike ? Which pro van did you hit with that you thought was stiff? Red and blue ? Or black / silver ?
michael valek
Hall of Fame
Red and blue. I’d say the puma supers feel softest of all red / blue versions.
tennistiger
Professional
The silver/black. Measured strung. PB is ways softer then Pumas and the Head. That was also the main problem why Becker had so much struggle with the change.
teachingprotx
Legend
Thank you so much for clarification
A!
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
My high school doubles partner my junior year used the Becker Puma frame on full throttle.
He was a big strong athletic exchange student from Sweden.
liked to serve and volley Edberg style and take big cuts at the return like Becker. 1hb of course.
He was a big strong athletic exchange student from Sweden.
liked to serve and volley Edberg style and take big cuts at the return like Becker. 1hb of course.
Indeed. I was lucky to find one in pristine condition and to add to what you have already posted, imo this was a hairpin model for Boris (the paint markings at 3,5,7,9 and squares inside the throat are for his lead tape placement/equivalent), the user I purchased it from had added about 5 grams of lead (3,9). The total weight (with lead) was about 350 grams (strung with gut)
You are correct, it feels more solid than the super though lighter stock and just as flexible (no access to RDC right now, will post measurements later ). Beautiful feel, plenty of power @56 lbs
The grommets are not like the super (someone alluded to heads manufacturing process) and the screw in the handle is fake just like the estusa provantech PB Pro. Interesting the frame refers to a Dynamic tension value rather than a strung range.
I'm not sure how much lead / eqv Boris used later in his career but I'm sure it was a lot more than 5 grams
That makes sense. I remember Becker would vary his lead placement depending on the tournament. There are paint markings on this frame just for that. Of course, the type of lead he used /multiple strips etc is another question altogether. This frame unstrung (one overgrip) ~ 324 grams
tennistiger
Professional
Beckers personal frames did not have the silver painted pieces , that was only for the retail Version to imitate lead.
teachingprotx
Legend
I was shocked at how stiff the BBWC came out to be from Dino .. I thought Low mid 50’s
I recall a photo in tennis magazine from the 1996 Australian open where he had lead tape inside the throat (extending about half way), the frames paint markings at 3,5,7, 9 were clearly visible. Now when I compare that to his Wimbledon 1999 setup, he definitely had applied lead tape at 3,9. The difference was quite obvious but I didn't see what else he had changed.
Just curious, what was the strung / unstrung RA? I don't feel any difference compared to my puma supers but it's definitely more solid without the PCS System.
