Best Players Seasons to not be capped with YE no. 1

Fiero425

Legend
1989
Becker - 64/8 w/l & 5 titles:(
Lendl - 79/7 w/l & 10 titles :)

Boris just rose to the occasion a few times; not enough to be #1 on the computer even if owning the top 2 majors! Becker was lucky to get out of the 2nd round! D Rostagno had MP in the 4th set of their match! A ball skipped off the net when Rostagno was in perfect position to have a career win! Lendl would have taken Krickstein! :rolleyes: :whistle::unsure:;)
 

timnz

Legend
1982

mcenroe - 5 titles (most prestigious were Philadelphia, London indoor and Tokyo indoor) and 1 major runner-up was year end number 1
connors - 7 titles including 2 majors
lendl - 15 titles including WCT finals and masters and 1 major runner up.

mcenroe should have been at best 3rd that year
 
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Fiero425

Legend
1982

mcenroe - 5 titles (most prestigious were Philadelphia, London indoor and Tokyo indoor) and 1 major runner-up was year end number 1
connors - 7 titles including 2 majors
lendl - 15 titles including WCT finals and masters and 1 major runner up.

mcenroe should have been at best 3rd that year

Rankings were a joke before the ATP took over in 1990 w/ the computer! Back in the day points was just a factor; more on emotions gave #1 to a player at times! :) :D:laughing::-D
 

TheFifthSet

Legend
Was just about to mention that one. He only beat Agassi 4-1 though, Andre won their RR match at YEC by a score of 6-2, 6-2. Pete got injured just before the USO which cleared the path for Andre to win it (ending with 2-1 slams against Pete), but given that in his four wins, Pete didn’t even lose a set to Agassi it was clear to everyone including Andre himself who the best player of the season was.

I never thought it was that clear-cut when you factor in that all five matches occurred in conditions favourable/highly favourable to Pistol. Maybe Pete wins the USO that year, but Dre did win it…and in 90’s tennis, unless it was Pistol on grass, it’s hard to tip any one player to be odds-on over the field.
 
I never thought it was that clear-cut when you factor in that all five matches occurred in conditions favourable/highly favourable to Pistol. Maybe Pete wins the USO that year, but Dre did win it…and in 90’s tennis, unless it was Pistol on grass, it’s hard to tip any one player to be odds-on over the field.
I watched all those matches and it was a painful experience for an Agassi fan, because even though there were some tie breaks, he never ever won a set and never looked as if he had realistic chances. The Wimbledon and YEC final as well as the Cincinnati semi were pure masterclass performances from Pete. You are right that conditions might have been favorable to Pete (relatively speaking as Andre himself was good on any surface), but this would also hold true had they met at the USO. After the two matches at LA and Cincinnati and considering (half in hindsight) Pete’s 4-0 record over Andre at the USO, I cannot see how Andre would have won this. Ofc we will never truly know and Pete even in his best years was no stranger to upsets outside Wimbledon so might also be possible that Andre could avoid him, but under normal circumstances he should at least been favored. While it is a minority opinion around these boards, I also value H2H way higher than most others here. In an individual sport that is played uno vs. uno i simply find it illogical to disregard H2H completely. 4-1 with 10-2 in sets is a beatdown and we are not talking some weird match up issue where a way inferior player who does not win much else scores some meaningless wins in smaller tournaments, but the two best players in the world that year, including a Wimbledon and a YEC final. Andre himself already said in his speech after the Wimbly final that he does not feel like the No.1 (he became it by reaching the final), and I am sure after the YEC beat down he felt the same.
 

TheFifthSet

Legend
I watched all those matches and it was a painful experience for an Agassi fan, because even though there were some tie breaks, he never ever won a set and never looked as if he had realistic chances. The Wimbledon and YEC final as well as the Cincinnati semi were pure masterclass performances from Pete. You are right that conditions might have been favorable to Pete (relatively speaking as Andre himself was good on any surface), but this would also hold true had they met at the USO. After the two matches at LA and Cincinnati and considering (half in hindsight) Pete’s 4-0 record over Andre at the USO, I cannot see how Andre would have won this. Ofc we will never truly know and Pete even in his best years was no stranger to upsets outside Wimbledon so might also be possible that Andre could avoid him, but under normal circumstances he should at least been favored. While it is a minority opinion around these boards, I also value H2H way higher than most others here. In an individual sport that is played uno vs. uno i simply find it illogical to disregard H2H completely. 4-1 with 10-2 in sets is a beatdown and we are not talking some weird match up issue where a way inferior player who does not win much else scores some meaningless wins in smaller tournaments, but the two best players in the world that year, including a Wimbledon and a YEC final. Andre himself already said in his speech after the Wimbly final that he does not feel like the No.1 (he became it by reaching the final), and I am sure after the YEC beat down he felt the same.


Fair enough, and I’d also tip Pete to win, maybe even comfortably, if they matched up at that years USO. But I still think it’s tough to pencil anyone in for a win, over the rest of the field, in a landscape where parity reigned supreme. Again, unless we’re talkin’ Pete on grass. And it’s easy to conceive of a world where that year’s H2H is something like a more balanced 5-3/5-4 if we sprinkled in 3-4 matches on clay and slow HC.

Agree to disagree here, but I do agree that H2H shouldn’t be completely disregarded. It’s one reason I regard Fed as the unofficial #1 in ‘17. Their on-court accomplishments were basically even (i think Fed actually shades him marginally), so I use that as a tiebreaker of sorts. A bit different from Sampgassi because Dre inarguably accomplished more in ‘99 than Pete regardless of how hapless he looked when they matched up.
 
Agree to disagree here, but I do agree that H2H shouldn’t be completely disregarded. It’s one reason I regard Fed as the unofficial #1 in ‘17. Their on-court accomplishments were basically even (i think Fed actually shades him marginally), so I use that as a tiebreaker of sorts. A bit different from Sampgassi because Dre inarguably accomplished more in ‘99 than Pete regardless of how hapless he looked when they matched up.
Fair enough and yes let’s agree to disagree. As for the bold: This is mainly driven by Pete’s injury. Had he played the USO and lost earlier to an opponent other than Agassi, I would have no issues seeing Agassi as the deserved No.1. However, Pete being injured right in the middle of his run during the HC swing and his dominant YEC, wasn’t of course Andre’s fault, but leaves a bit of a doubt. Fully agree on 2017 btw, Federer was the No.1 here for me.
 

Fiero425

Legend
Fair enough and yes let’s agree to disagree. As for the bold: This is mainly driven by Pete’s injury. Had he played the USO and lost earlier to an opponent other than Agassi, I would have no issues seeing Agassi as the deserved No.1. However, Pete being injured right in the middle of his run during the HC swing and his dominant YEC, wasn’t of course Andre’s fault, but leaves a bit of a doubt. Fully agree on 2017 btw, Federer was the No.1 here for me.

Andre just lucky Sampras wasn't waiting for him in the final as he was Pete's pigeon; esp. at the USO! Pete closed out his career barely hanging on in 2002, but USO & Agassi as the opponent gave him a nice sendoff! ;) :):D:laughing::-D
 
H

Herald

Guest
Sampras '99. Playing some BOAT level tennis, but unable to compete in 2 majors he was a lock to win: AO champion thanked him for not playing in his champion speech and everybody expected him to win USO in '99. And of course, the epic demolition of Agassi, which despite recent attempts at revisionism, was indeed one of the greatest displays in a Center Court final.
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
Sampras '99. Playing some BOAT level tennis, but unable to compete in 2 majors he was a lock to win: AO champion thanked him for not playing in his champion speech and everybody expected him to win USO in '99. And of course, the epic demolition of Agassi, which despite recent attempts at revisionism, was indeed one of the greatest displays in a Center Court final.
Would '96 Krajicek been able to handle that version of Pete?
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
Eek, I just noticed that Agassi was 1-4 against Sampras in 1999. He was a bit fortunate he didn't have to play him to get that 2nd USO.
 
H

Herald

Guest
Would '96 Krajicek been able to handle that version of Pete?
It's a good question. I would tip Pete because of his level, confidence, and overall experience but it would be very close. Kracijek was one of the very few who could get in Pete's head and do to Pete what Pete did to everyone
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
It's a good question. I would tip Pete because of his level, confidence, and overall experience but it would be very close. Kracijek was one of the very few who could get in Pete's head and do to Pete what Pete did to everyone
I think Sampras wins but it would be closer than the final. Sampras' level though was close to unplayable. Agassi did good to make it respectable score wise.
 
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H

Herald

Guest
I think Sampras wins but it would be closer than the final. Sampras's level though was close to unplayable. Agassi did good to make it respectable score wise.
It really just depends on how tight Pete can get the first set. If he gets it to something like 5-4, 5-5 then I think he eeks it and the match could split open into a routine 4 setter. If it's a 3-6 loss in the first and Pete gets the second 6-3 without making Richard go through some tight moments then it could be a long one.
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
It really just depends on how tight Pete can get the first set. If he gets it to something like 5-4, 5-5 then I think he eeks it and the match could split open into a routine 4 setter. If it's a 3-6 loss in the first and Pete gets the second 6-3 without making Richard go through some tight moments then it could be a long one.
Yea it will be a tough 4 setter I think in Sampras' favor but I think he wins it. Something like 7-6 6-7 7-5 6-4.
 

Fiero425

Legend
Yes, this has been consensus. Pete came back with a vengeance during indoor season at least.

I always played my best tennis indoors! The outdoor elements played havoc with tennis rackets and the strings from way back when! Lendl loved the indoor season as well! ;)
 
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