Better career and better player- Na vs Ivanovic

Better career and player- Na vs Ivanovic

  • Ana better career, Na better player

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    40

conway

Banned
How would you rate Na and Ivanovic vs each other, both as far as careers and playing ability.

Na has an extra slam to Ivanovic. A huge deal. She also has more slam finals. On the other hand Ana has been #1 which Na hasn't (and probably never will, she missed her final opportunity this year). I believe Ana has more titles and many more tier 1 type titles, but I would have to check the stats on that, as I don't really follow either player closely enough to be totally certain.

In terms of playing ability, Na is great off both sides from the ground, and has a way better backhand than Ana. Ana relies almost completely on her huge forehand to win her points. Na is a better mover and defender, and better volleyer. Not sure which has the better serve. Both are headcases. Overall Na would seem to have the better game to me.
 
Na li is probably technically the best tennis player on the WTA tour but she was never really consistent. mentally not a strong player.
 

Terenigma

G.O.A.T.
Li Na is better in both. She also has imo the best BH in the WTA. When she won the AO, I watched the final and i couldnt believe how well she hit that shot, its brutal! She also has excellent movement and good reading of the play. She's a little inconsistant but who isnt in the WTA? Ivanovic has a better FH but nothing special but thats about it in comparison, well... that and she's hotter lol
 

wy2sl0

Hall of Fame
Yeah this is a no-brainer for me personally. Na at her best can hang with Serena a her best as they both can play crazy big shots and execute on big stages. Ivanovic is not as solid off both wings and does not move nearly as well as Na.
 

conway

Banned
When I saw only 1 vote for the 2nd option my first guess was immediately Chico, but wow it wasn't. :lol:
 
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Deleted member 512391

Guest
Didn't get that quite, how can you be a better player and not having better career? :) What makes you a better player? Talent?

I think that Na has the edge, simply because she won one Major more (the most important title in tennis) and that's a huge thing.
 

conway

Banned
Didn't get that quite, how can you be a better player and not having better career? :) What makes you a better player? Talent?

I think that Na has the edge, simply because she won one Major more (the most important title in tennis) and that's a huge thing.

Hewitt vs Safin is one example. It is hard to argue Safin had the better career. It would also be hard to argue Hewitt is the better player. Although the career atleast has to be somewhat in the same ballpark probably to be the better player.

Kuznetsova has 2 slams and Sabatini has 1. I don't think anyone would say Kuznetsova is a better player though. Granted all of Sabatini's other acheivements are so superior she might have the better career too.

Rosewall probably had the best career of any tennis player ever, yet he is ranked only about 8th today. His clay achievements are atleast on par with Nadal and far superior to Borg, yet he is ranked far behind both on clay, and maybe not even 3rd. Another example. He isn't regarded as great a player as his achievements would indicate.
 
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Deleted member 512391

Guest
Hewitt vs Safin is one example. It is hard to argue Safin had the better career. It would also be hard to argue Hewitt is the better player. Although the career atleast has to be somewhat in the same ballpark probably to be the better player.

Kuznetsova has 2 slams and Sabatini has 1. I don't think anyone would say Kuznetsova is a better player though. Granted all of Sabatini's other acheivements are so superior she might have the better career too.

Rosewall probably had the best career of any tennis player ever, yet he is ranked only about 8th today. His clay achievements are atleast on par with Nadal and far superior to Borg, yet he is ranked far behind both on clay, and maybe not even 3rd. Another example. He isn't regarded as great a player as his achievements would indicate.

Still don't understand what do you mean by "being a better player"? Better in terms of ball striking or career-wise?
I always give an edge to a player who's won more important titles, even if he hasn't been as successful by winning tier-2 titles (by tier-1 titles I mean Majors, at least in this era).
In my opinion, Hewitt is a better player than Safin, simply because he has a better career. I would like to hear your arguments.

By the way, you said that Rosewall is "far superior to Borg" on clay which confuses me. They both won 6 tier-1 titles on clay (if we count Rosewall's French Pro Majors), but the difference is that Rosewall won 5 of his titles against limited competition - first French Championships as an amateur (without playing professionals) and four of his French Pro Majors as professional (without playing amateurs), where Bog won all of his titles against best possible competition at the time.
 

Man of steel

Hall of Fame
Yeah this is a no-brainer for me personally. Na at her best can hang with Serena a her best as they both can play crazy big shots and execute on big stages.Ivanovic is not as solid off both wings and does not move nearly as well as Na.

Really? Their H2H says otherwise. Theres only a few players that could hang with serena at her best and Na wasn't really one of them.
 

conway

Banned
Still don't understand what do you mean by "being a better player"? Better in terms of ball striking or career-wise?
I always give an edge to a player who's won more important titles, even if he hasn't been as successful by winning tier-2 titles (by tier-1 titles I mean Majors, at least in this era).
In my opinion, Hewitt is a better player than Safin, simply because he has a better career. I would like to hear your arguments.

Safin's peak level play is just so far beyond Hewitt's (atleast that is the perception of most people, but I don't really disagree with it either), that is overcomes Hewitt's relatively minor edge in achievements. With both having 2 slams, both having been #1 (even if Hewitt a lot longer there), Hewitt with more titles, Safin many more Masters, Hewitt the two WTF titles, their careers while clearly favoring Hewitt are still close enough that Safin's sheer potential playing level puts him above to most people (and again I don't really disagree on it. Also put another way, Safin would probably have won the 2 slams he won in any era. He was unplayable at both events. Even peak Federer who was unbeatable off of clay couldn't stop him playing his best. There are many eras Hewitt would not have won a single major. There are also some he would have still won 2, or more maybe even 3 or 4 depending on the quality of the field, the playing conditions, and the matchups, the draws, and various elements of luck, time, place, and chance. However you couldn't guarantee him winning those slams. He isn't unplayable at his best the way Safin is, and still won only the same # of slams so is in the same ballpark in achievements.

By the way, you said that Rosewall is "far superior to Borg" on clay which confuses me. They both won 6 tier-1 titles on clay (if we count Rosewall's French Pro Majors), but the difference is that Rosewall won 5 of his titles against limited competition - first French Championships as an amateur (without playing professionals) and four of his French Pro Majors as professional (without playing amateurs), where Bog won all of his titles against best possible competition at the time.

It has been estimated by people who have done more extensive research than I would be willing to put in that Rosewall really would have won 9 or 10 French Opens had it been Open Tennis then. And that was the best clay courter in the world roughly 10 or 11 different years. That is atleast on par with Nadal, and far superior to Borg, achievements wise and career wise. Yet he is still rated far below Nadal, and to most even below Borg. So obviously assessments of ability override achievements sometimes.

In terms of overall careers you could even make a case Rosewall had the best career and is the strongest choice for GOAT. By those who have done estimates how many slams everyone would have won Rosewall usually comes out on top, even ahead of Gonzales, Tilden and Laver, and well ahead of Federer (who ends up behind all those, as are Nadal and Sampras too then obviously). You could make a case for Laver and Gonzales still having better careers as they were #1 a lot longer and more completely dominant than Rosewall even at his few years clearly on top. Either way in achievements only Rosewall would be a strong candidate for GOAT. Yet in reality he doesn't come close to most people, and is generally slated in about 8th place behind Laver, Gonzales, Federer, Nadal, and probably even Tilden, Sampras, and Borg. Some even have Budge, Vines, Connors, Lendl over him too. I even read a report where some were arguing Bobby Riggs wa a better player in his prime. Again assessments of his actual level of play are overriding his achievements to people it seems (which isn't necessarily wrong and is my whole point).
 

conway

Banned
Back on topic it is too bad Na fell and smashed her head hard in the 2013 Australian Open final. I am sure she would have 3 slams and Azarenka only 1 had that not happened. Now Azarenka (pukes) will most likely end up with the better career, even if I wouldn't be surprised if she is somewhat done too.

Azarenka should dedicate her second Australian Open title to Na's semi concussion, as that is the only reason she won it.
 

wy2sl0

Hall of Fame
Really? Their H2H says otherwise. Theres only a few players that could hang with serena at her best and Na wasn't really one of them.

Hang and beat are two different things.

Furthermore I was obviously talking about the last few years when she had a rebirth of sorts.
 

conway

Banned
Na does usually give Serena hard matches so she can hang with her for sure, even when Serena is playing well. It is unlikely Serena has an off day most times they play after all. She just isn't mentally strong enough to win the big points or the match (except once).
 

RF-18

Talk Tennis Guru
Li Na is more gifted and smarter, I would choose to have her abilties than ivanovics and also her career.

When Ivanovic plays, it seems like there is no thought behind what she is doing. She just slaps the ball flat from left to right and hopes for a winner. Sometimes its to many UE.

No, Li na for me in all cases.
 

conway

Banned
When Ivanovic plays, it seems like there is no thought behind what she is doing. She just slaps the ball flat from left to right and hopes for a winner.

TBH I find Na does the same thing, so no difference there.
 

RF-18

Talk Tennis Guru
TBH I find Na does the same thing, so no difference there.

Not really. Have you seen Li na play? There is more tecnique and thougt behind what she is doing. She can mix it up. Ivanovic is a pretty dumb and impatient player, she just hits the ball flat. I think her high risk game has stopped her from more success.
 

conway

Banned
Not really. Have you seen Li na play? There is more tecnique and thougt behind what she is doing. She can mix it up. Ivanovic is a pretty dumb and impatient player, she just hits the ball flat. I think her high risk game has stopped her from more success.

Na played somewhat smart tennis for the only time in her career under Carlos. I think that was Carlos importing his own tennis brain (and Justine's which I read Na consulted with on strategy and point construction during their tenure) onto Na. Now without Carlos I expect her to go back to the same Ivanovic-like brainless ball basher she was before. Heck I think Ana constructs points and has better shot selection than non Carlos version Na Li TBH. Did you even see Na play before 2013?
 

Man of steel

Hall of Fame
The gap between ivanovic's forehand and backhand limits her game as well. Her forhand is one of the best in the game. But her back hand. Oh dear.
 
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