BH Approach Shots: Slice v. Topspin?

[mikegotcha123]

Honestly most 4,0 and 4.5 players don’t hit an effective slice. I got to watch the late seniors champ Larry Turville destroy opponents with his slice backhand. For me a good low punch slice is the best approach shot for me. I can hit it inside out to tail away from righties on the backhand and the same on the forehand to lefties. Fun to watch guys swinging and whiffing a ball tailing away. Very underrated shot if hit properly.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Honestly most 4,0 and 4.5 players don’t hit an effective slice.

The compensating factor is that most 4.0 & 4.5 players don't pass extremely well in response to those ineffective slices.

 

[Cashman]

Honestly most 4,0 and 4.5 players don’t hit an effective slice.

I think it depends a lot on the dominant surface where you learned to play. Hardcourt or clay doesn't really demand or reward good slicing skills the way grass or synthetic grass does.

That's not to say it can't be effective on hard or clay, but a lot of what we excel at is the stuff that we're forced into learning how to do.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I think it depends a lot on the dominant surface where you learned to play. Hardcourt or clay doesn't really demand or reward good slicing skills the way grass or synthetic grass does.

That's not to say it can't be effective on hard or clay, but a lot of what we excel at is the stuff that we're forced into learning how to do.

Having only played on hardcourt, I can't speak to what the other surfaces demand or reward but I do know that a decent slice still is enough to mess up some people's game because they're accustomed to only having to deal with varying degrees of TS and maybe the occasional flat hitter.

 

[Cashman]

Having only played on hardcourt, I can't speak to what the other surfaces demand or reward but I do know that a decent slice still is enough to mess up some people's game because they're accustomed to only having to deal with varying degrees of TS and maybe the occasional flat hitter.

Yeah, definitely. But lack of a slice isn't a glaring exploitable weakness on hardcourt the way it is on faster, lower-bouncing courts.

The first thing I do with a new opponent on grass is drop a short ball on his forehand - if he has a good forehand slice he knifes it back. If he doesn't... well, I'll be making him hit forehands into the net for the rest of the afternoon.

Hardcourt also punishes poor slice pretty severely, which makes the learning curve pretty painful. I had to hit a lot of average slices until I could consistently hit a good one, but on grass I mostly got away with it. On hardcourt I may have been discouraged by my opponent crushing my floaty balls into the next dimension.

 

[Dartagnan64]

I think it depends a lot on the dominant surface where you learned to play. Hardcourt or clay doesn't really demand or reward good slicing skills the way grass or synthetic grass does.

That's not to say it can't be effective on hard or clay, but a lot of what we excel at is the stuff that we're forced into learning how to do.

In the cool PNW weather at sea level, balls bounce low in general and our hard courts skid. Flat and slice are very effective. On the Har Tru it's a little less effective but I've seen some good players get their slices to skid really well on that surface.

Slice is the way to go with approach shots up here. But when I head down to the desert in winter, I'm always shocked at how high my balls bounce. Still at sea level but warm dry weather seems to get that ball bouncing higher and the courts tend to be more coarse. Hitting a high bouncing topspin to the BH is a legitimate approach shot in that setting. Just be prepared for a lob.

 

[LeeD]

After you approach topspin, you have to switch to conti volley grip.
Your topspin approach arrives faster to your opponent, so you are still out of position for his shot.

 

[Fintft]

Honestly most 4,0 and 4.5 players don’t hit an effective slice. I got to watch the late seniors champ Larry Turville destroy opponents with his slice backhand. For me a good low punch slice is the best approach shot for me. I can hit it inside out to tail away from righties on the backhand and the same on the forehand to lefties. Fun to watch guys swinging and whiffing a ball tailing away. Very underrated shot if hit properly.

Question:
Is a good slice supposed to also be deep?

B/c the other day I was having minor problems with short slices on clay, but the answer was to step into the court/be prepare to take off the moment the opponent was fixing to hit a BH (b/c he'd slice most of them).

 

[RVT]

Agree that this is a generational thing. I'm of the "19XX" generation where approach shots were always sliced on the backhand size, normally down the line. The goal wasn't to force an error or get an easy putaway volley--the goal was to get to the net. The expectation is that you would likely have to hit two volleys at that point to win the point--and approach volley just inside the service line and then a second putaway volley or overhead.

I still think that even today, this has some validity, but it depends on the ball. If it's a short low ball to my backhand, I'm almost always hitting a slice approach. If the ball is above waist level, then I'll hit out on it and try to force an error right there or get an easy putaway. One advantage no one has mentioned is that it's a lot easier to move in behind a slice, because you don't have to stop moving. You can hit it on the run. Most folks hitting a slice approach naturally develop a carioca step pattern on the way in. I have never seen someone hit a topspin backhand while doing this, and it would be pretty difficult to pull off given the torso rotation that occurs on a topspin backhand.

I think this vid is pretty good on the subject:

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Question:
Is a good slice supposed to also be deep?

B/c the other day I was having minor problems with short slices on clay, but the answer was to step into the court/be prepare to take off the moment the opponent was fixing to hit a BH (b/c he'd slice most of them).

"Good" comes in many forms.

Deep is good because it gives you more time to close, forces your opponent back so the distance between him and you is larger so you have more time to react, it might lessen the power of his shot as he's leaning back, etc.

But short is also good because he may not be good at hitting passers while moving forward. Also, his contact point will also likely be lower, which means he has to hit up, giving you the opportunity to volley down.

Angle is good because now he has to move forward and laterally.

I was answering from the standpoint of approaching the net but you could make much the same arguments if you stayed back.

 

[Dragy]

After you approach topspin, you have to switch to conti volley grip.
Your topspin approach arrives faster to your opponent, so you are still out of position for his shot.

It is if you hit to your opponent. Topspin (faster) approach is good pick when you approach away from your opponent, challenging his ability to get to the ball fast enough to hit decent passing shot. Or right into the body, challenging his ability to move around the ball.
With slower slice approach you (more frequently) challenge his ability to hit passing shot off low ball with you in good position at the net. As an extra bonus, it’s tough task to produce good lob off low slice.

 

[ZanderGoga]

Question:
Is a good slice supposed to also be deep?

There are exceptions to every rule, but until you're practiced enough that you understand and execute them without conscious thought, the answer you go with when you're playing and practicing should be "yes."

 

[Dartagnan64]

Is a good slice supposed to also be deep?

Best slices are actually right into the feet of an opponent. Makes it really hard for them to do anything but pop it up.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Best slices are actually right into the feet of an opponent. Makes it really hard for them to do anything but pop it up.

It depends on the opponent: if he's light on his feet, he will move diagonally backwards to give himself space.

This same opponent might struggle more with the short slice. It's very opponent-dependent.

 

[LeeD]

Slice for approach shot.
Flat and topspin for a winner attempt.

 

[Fintft]

Slice for approach shot.
Flat and topspin for a winner attempt.

But what if the slice is just a rally ball, not an approach shot?
Some people do, while being under pressure, or just prefer it, say from the BH side.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

But what if the slice is just a rally ball, not an approach shot?
Some people do, while being under pressure, or just prefer it, say from the BH side.

If I'm hitting a rally ball slice, I'd prefer to hit it deep unless I deliberately want to try to draw my opponent in or if I know he has a tough time with low, tailing away slices [example, you're both righty and are in a CC BH exchange then you change directions and slice DTL with some sidespin. This can be a tough shot to handle for the opponent especially if they are leaning CC.].

 

[Dartagnan64]

It depends on the opponent: if he's light on his feet, he will move diagonally backwards to give himself space.

This same opponent might struggle more with the short slice. It's very opponent-dependent.

Well that's true of any shot. But in general, my opponents struggle more if I go at their feet (whether that's the first bounce or second bounce doesn't matter). The floating nature of slice makes it hard to judge when it's going to bounce and you catch guys all the time misreading the ball.

The next best place for me to put a slice is to the FH corner. most guys I play are bad at getting under a low ball on the FH wing and I get a ton of netted balls. Slice to the BH wing either gets a slice back or a lob. I'm usually better hitting a topspin moonball approach to that side.

But everything will be opponent dependent. I play a lot of guys in their late 40's to mid-60's. Always more footwork challenged so I use that to my advantage.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

The floating nature of slice makes it hard to judge when it's going to bounce and you catch guys all the time misreading the ball.

For me, I would amend that to "The floating nature of slice makes it hard to judge how much the ball will skid after it bounces."

I don't have any more problem determining when a slice will bounce than a TS. Predicting what happens after is trickier.

 

[Dartagnan64]

For me, I would amend that to "The floating nature of slice makes it hard to judge how much the ball will skid after it bounces."

I don't have any more problem determining when a slice will bounce than a TS. Predicting what happens after is trickier.

Yeah that may be the issue. I always expect topspin to behave similarly, but slices can catch and pop up or skid and get on you fast. Or they may bounce more or less sideways. Either way, they do screw with old guys footwork more.

 

[LeeD]

I think slice messes with youngster more, those used to topspin from their peers.
Old farts just slice back the slices they face, and slice lob when needed.

 

[LeeD]

Of course, this only works at similar levels.

 

[onehandbh]

In 3.5 - 4.0 doubles, I think if you can hit a slice that stays low, they may have a harder time lobbing, so you can close the net tighter. An extreme slice also might sometimes get your opponent to hit a volley into the net if they are not used to countering it.

 

[FiddlerDog]

At 3.5 or 4.0, the best approach shot is one that lands in the court.

 

[toth]

For me if i have possibility to hit thbh i choose it.
My thbh is better than my slice.
Slice only if i have no time or the incoming ball is to low for thbh.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

For me if i have possibility to hit thbh i choose it.
My thbh is better than my slice.
Slice only if i have no time or the incoming ball is to low for thbh.

What if your opponent loves incoming TS but hates slice?

 

[toth]

What if your opponent loves incoming TS but hates slice?

Than slice
But it is rarely by my opponents