Big 3 vs. Agassi at the USO. A statistical comparison

[Sport]

Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic, Rafael Nadal and Andre Agassi are all of them, brilliant competitors and tennis players. Subsequently, it is interesting from a tennis standpoint to analyze their USO resumes.

USO titles:
1. Federer (5).
2. Nadal (4).
2. Djokovic (4).
4. Agassi (2).

USO winning percentage:
1. Djokovic (87%).
2. Federer (86%).
3. Nadal (85%).
4. Agassi (81%).

H2H against other ATGs at the USO;
1. Nadal (67% of victories, leads Djokovic 2-1).
2. Federer (56% of victories, leads Agassi and Djokovic combined 5-4).
3. Djokovic (44% of victories, he's 4-5 against Federer and Nadal combined).
4. Agassi (30% of victories, he's 3-10 against Lendl, Connors, Sampras and Federer combined).

H2H against players with 10+ Slams at the USO:
1. Nadal (67% of victories, leads Djokovic 2-1).
2. Federer (50% of victories, he's 3-3 against Djokovic).
3. Djokovic (50% of victories, he's 3-3 against Federer).
4. Agassi (14% of victories, he's 1-6 against Sampras and Federer combined).

Logico-methodological conclusion: Agassi is an inferior USO player than any of the Big 3 members.

 

[Sport]

The h2h part is garbage. Nadal with a sample of 3 being above the others with a sample of 9-13.

Agassi is 0-4 against Sampras at the USO. Nadal is 2-1 against Novak at the USO.

Sample size difference is minimal here: Agassi faced Sampras 4 times, Nadal faced Djokovic 3 times at the USO. DIfference is, Nadal could actually lead the H2H over his main rival at the USO, while Agassi could not win a single match against his main rival.

 

[Phoenix*]

The h2h part is garbage. Nadal with a sample of 3 being above the others with a sample of 9-13.

 

[Poisoned Slice]

All I know for sure is Agassi will beat Sampras in their next US Open match.

 

[NatF]

LOL

 

[Pheasant]

Let me get the straight. Agassi played a whopping 13 matches against 4 monsters. 3 of those monsters won the title 5 times while the other monster put up a 3-peat while on his way to 8 straight finals.

Agassi had far tougher competition than any of the Big 3 there. 13 matches? Damn.

Only Lendl has a case over Agassi for having the toughest competition at the USO.Lendl had 19 matches vs 6 Hall of Famers, each of whom had at least 6 career slam titles and at least 1 USO title.

Agassi is drastically underrated here. Agassi in a different era not facing that many road blocks could have 4-5 titles with the right draws.

 

[Kralingen]

Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic, Rafael Nadal and Andre Agassi are all of them, brilliant competitors and tennis players. Subsequently, it is interesting from a tennis standpoint to analyze their USO resumes.

H2H against other ATGs at the USO;
1. Nadal (67% of victories, leads Djokovic 2-1).
2. Federer (56% of victories, leads Agassi and Djokovic combined 5-4).
3. Djokovic (44% of victories, he's 4-5 against Federer and Nadal combined).
4. Agassi (30% of victories, he's 3-10 against Lendl, Connors, Sampras and Federer combined).

It is interesting that Nadal only faced an ATG 3 times at the USO, and yet he has a whopping 12 losses there: Tiafoe, Del Potro, Pouille, Fognini, Djokovic, Del Potro, Murray, Ferrer, Youzhny, Blake, Roddick, El Aynaoui

Agassi on the other hand has 19 losses at the USO, 10 of them to ATGs - the other 9 losses were: Becker, Ferrero, Clement, Kucera, Rafter, Chang, Courier (arguably ATG), Leconte, Bates.

Why did Rafa have so much trouble with the non-ATGs? And, given his struggles with non-ATGs, how can we be sure that he would've done better vs. Lendl, Connors, Sampras, Federer than Andre did?

 

[weakera]

Nadal would whip Agassi senseless at the US Open unironically

 

[nolefam_2024]

Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic, Rafael Nadal and Andre Agassi are all of them, brilliant competitors and tennis players. Subsequently, it is interesting from a tennis standpoint to analyze their USO resumes.

USO titles:
1. Federer (5).
2. Nadal (4).
2. Djokovic (4).
4. Agassi (2).

USO winning percentage:
1. Djokovic (87%).
2. Federer (86%).
3. Nadal (85%).
4. Agassi (81%).

H2H against other ATGs at the USO;
1. Nadal (67% of victories, leads Djokovic 2-1).
2. Federer (56% of victories, leads Agassi and Djokovic combined 5-4).
3. Djokovic (44% of victories, he's 4-5 against Federer and Nadal combined).
4. Agassi (30% of victories, he's 3-10 against Lendl, Connors, Sampras and Federer combined).

H2H against players with 10+ Slams at the USO:
1. Nadal (67% of victories, leads Djokovic 2-1).
2. Federer (50% of victories, he's 3-3 against Djokovic).
3. Djokovic (50% of victories, he's 3-3 against Federer).
4. Agassi (14% of victories, he's 1-6 against Sampras and Federer combined).

Logico-methodological conclusion: Agassi is an inferior USO player than any of the Big 3 members.

He is inferior.

He is getting GROSSLY overrated. It's sickening. It's part of same brigade which would elevate Safin to atg.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Let me get the straight. Agassi played a whopping 13 matches against 4 monsters. 3 of those monsters won the title 5 times while the other monster put up a 3-peat while on his way to 8 straight finals.

Agassi had far tougher competition than any of the Big 3 there. 13 matches? Damn.

Only Lendl has a case over Agassi for having the toughest competition at the USO.Lendl had 19 matches vs 6 Hall of Famers, each of whom had at least 6 career slam titles and at least 1 USO title.

Agassi is drastically underrated here. Agassi in a different era not facing that many road blocks could have 4-5 titles with the right draws.

So Losing to atg is now better than winning vs non atg?

Lendl is 10 years older than Andre. And Federer is 12 years younger. Connors is 18 years older. None of these are his competition.

His competition was Pete vs whom he could do nothing. Now getting overrated because he pushed fed to five when most of his other competition couldn't.

 

[Pheasant]

For fun, records of some various USO heavyweights vs the top-10, sorted by most wins:

Lendl 19-9
Sampras 16-5
Federer 16-6
Djokovic 16-8
MxEnroe 14-5
Agassi 13-10
Connors 9-13
Nadal 7-5

 

[nolefam_2024]

.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Uts does better job at calculating difficulty level. According to them Agassi slams are overvalued.


His 1999 USOpen is among the easiest wins. And some of his AO wins are ridiculous.

Ultimate Tennis Statistics - Andre Agassi

Andre Agassi profile at Ultimate Tennis Statistics

www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com

 

[RS]

USO 10 and 13

 

[RS]

It is interesting that Nadal only faced an ATG 3 times at the USO, and yet he has a whopping 12 losses there: Tiafoe, Del Potro, Pouille, Fognini, Djokovic, Del Potro, Murray, Ferrer, Youzhny, Blake, Roddick, El Aynaoui

Agassi on the other hand has 19 losses at the USO, 10 of them to ATGs - the other 9 losses were: Becker, Ferrero, Clement, Kucera, Rafter, Chang, Courier (arguably ATG), Leconte, Bates.

Why did Rafa have so much trouble with the non-ATGs? And, given his struggles with non-ATGs, how can we be sure that he would've done better vs. Lendl, Connors, Sampras, Federer than Andre did?

Forgot about this one must of been 2003 then

 

[NatF]

Forgot about this one must of been 2003 then

Aynaoui GOAT.

 

[Phenomenal]

It is interesting that Nadal only faced an ATG 3 times at the USO, and yet he has a whopping 12 losses there: Tiafoe, Del Potro, Pouille, Fognini, Djokovic, Del Potro, Murray, Ferrer, Youzhny, Blake, Roddick, El Aynaoui

Agassi on the other hand has 19 losses at the USO, 10 of them to ATGs - the other 9 losses were: Becker, Ferrero, Clement, Kucera, Rafter, Chang, Courier (arguably ATG), Leconte, Bates.

Why did Rafa have so much trouble with the non-ATGs? And, given his struggles with non-ATGs, how can we be sure that he would've done better vs. Lendl, Connors, Sampras, Federer than Andre did?

Nadal won 4 slams yet he has missed many USO(twice as a defending champion) in his prime or being big candidate. Also Djokovic and Federer after 2010 was not that good to reach Nadal in 2017 and 2019 so its not. Nadal's fault.
Nadal can only be underrated imo. Yes he wasn't great at USO before 2010 but after he was the best player i think. 2012 was one of Nadal's best playing years. 2012 2014 2020...

It's my general response to people not directly to you. Also bit unrelated to Agassi. Nadal atleast easily could have shared the record.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Nadal won 4 slams yet he has missed many USO(twice as a defending champion) in his prime or being big candidate. Also Djokovic and Federer after 2010 was not that good to reach Nadal in 2017 and 2019 so its not. Nadal's fault.
Nadal can only be underrated imo. Yes he wasn't great at USO before 2010 but after he was the best player i think. 2012 was one of Nadal's best playing years. 2012 2014 2020...

It's my general response to people not directly to you. Also bit unrelated to Agassi. Nadal atleast easily could have shared the record.

Now that's going to other extreme. It's not just Federer and Djokovic. Nadal had absolutely no one in 2017.

The top 5 players in 2016 Year end were

Murray
Djokovic
Raonic
Wawrinka
Nishikori

All five didn't even participate in this tournament. He would more be suitable at 3 USOpen than 5. He doesn't have any stat that rivals a five time USOpen champion. But he does have too many losses to lesser players here.

Injuries are part of the sport and Nadal knew the deal. He himself admitted he made mistakes in his life re injuries.

 

[Phenomenal]

Now that's going to other extreme. It's not just Federer and Djokovic. Nadal had absolutely no one in 2017.

The top 5 players in 2016 Year end were

Murray
Djokovic
Raonic
Wawrinka
Nishikori

All five didn't even participate in this tournament. He would more be suitable at 3 USOpen than 5. He doesn't have any stat that rivals a five time USOpen champion. But he does have too many losses to lesser players here.

Injuries are part of the sport and Nadal knew the deal. He himself admitted he made mistakes in his life re injuries.

I don't see the same way as you. I acknowledge that he has 4 slams there. Not giving him an extra titles just mentioning for my point. I was talking about his greatness at USO. In the end he has 4 USO and 22 slams. I was responding him to being underrated. Idk how to explain.

Why 2017?
Everyone has weak draws are we taking their slams? There was not a better player in 2017 than Nadal so he fully deserved. For example it's not Nadal's fault that Federer didn't reach him in 2013 we can make this for any of Big3. Also Nadal's losses includes 2003 and 2004 how fair is this? And 2 of his worst year 2015 and 2016 anyway.

Nadal beating the most in form player of the 2019 summer doesn't get credit either.
Forgot to mention It's not Nadal's fault that Federer and Djokovic, 2 of the greatest HC players couldn't reach him.

Nadal missing in 2004 is not the same as Nadal missing in 2012 etc. He was playing great tennis those years he just missed USO.

 

[fedfan24]

.

 

[nolefam_2024]

I don't see the same way as you. I acknowledge that he has 4 slams there. Not giving him an extra titles just mentioning for my point. I was talking about his greatness at USO. In the end he has 4 USO and 22 slams. I was responding him to being underrated. Idk how to explain.

Why 2017?
Everyone has weak draws are we taking their slams? There was not a better player in 2017 than Nadal so he fully deserved. For example it's not Nadal's fault that Federer didn't reach him in 2013 we can make this for any of Big3. Also Nadal's losses includes 2003 and 2004 how fair is this? And 2 of his worst year 2015 and 2016 anyway.

Nadal beating the most in form player of the 2019 summer doesn't get credit either.
Forgot to mention It's not Nadal's fault that Federer and Djokovic, 2 of the greatest HC players couldn't reach him.

Nadal missing in 2004 is not the same as Nadal missing in 2012 etc. He was playing great tennis those years he just missed USO.

Do Nadal already has his weak draw slam and we can't give him fifth one. That's my point.

 

[DSH]

Nadal won 4 slams yet he has missed many USO(twice as a defending champion) in his prime or being big candidate. Also Djokovic and Federer after 2010 was not that good to reach Nadal in 2017 and 2019 so its not. Nadal's fault.
Nadal can only be underrated imo. Yes he wasn't great at USO before 2010 but after he was the best player i think. 2012 was one of Nadal's best playing years. 2012 2014 2020...

It's my general response to people not directly to you. Also bit unrelated to Agassi. Nadal atleast easily could have shared the record.

Nadal would have 6 US Open titles if it weren't for his injuries in the middle of his peak/prime.

 

[Santis]

It is interesting that Nadal only faced an ATG 3 times at the USO, and yet he has a whopping 12 losses there: Tiafoe, Del Potro, Pouille, Fognini, Djokovic, Del Potro, Murray, Ferrer, Youzhny, Blake, Roddick, El Aynaoui

Agassi on the other hand has 19 losses at the USO, 10 of them to ATGs - the other 9 losses were: Becker, Ferrero, Clement, Kucera, Rafter, Chang, Courier (arguably ATG), Leconte, Bates.

Why did Rafa have so much trouble with the non-ATGs? And, given his struggles with non-ATGs, how can we be sure that he would've done better vs. Lendl, Connors, Sampras, Federer than Andre did?

Courier arguably an ATG and not Becker! Would love to know why you think so...

 

[Kralingen]

Courier arguably an ATG and not Becker! Would love to know why you think so...

Because that loss is to Benjamin Becker in 2006, not Boris Becker (who Andre beat twice at the USO in 90/95). That’s why

 

[Santis]

Because that loss is to Benjamin Becker in 2006, not Boris Becker (who Andre beat twice at the USO in 90/95). That’s why

Remember now. Andre's last match...

 

[Phenomenal]

Do Nadal already has his weak draw slam and we can't give him fifth one. That's my point.

You are being bit disrespectful. Should we also take Djokovic's 2018 USO then RG 2016, 2023 lets take his RG' titles. He didn't win those with Nadal. Would you be happy then? So it's not fair.
It is what it is. Nadal is not the only one who won with easy draw thats my point.

 

[Mustard]

All I know for sure is Agassi will beat Sampras in their next US Open match.

And then Sampras will win.

 

[fedfan24]

Federer, Pete, Connors are in their own tier. Nadal/Djokovic are with Lendl, Mac, Agassi in the tier below. Both inflated their counts there since 2017 with freebie draws.

 

[helterskelter]

Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic, Rafael Nadal and Andre Agassi are all of them, brilliant competitors and tennis players. Subsequently, it is interesting from a tennis standpoint to analyze their USO resumes.

USO titles:
1. Federer (5).
2. Nadal (4).
2. Djokovic (4).
4. Agassi (2).

USO winning percentage:
1. Djokovic (87%).
2. Federer (86%).
3. Nadal (85%).
4. Agassi (81%).

H2H against other ATGs at the USO;
1. Nadal (67% of victories, leads Djokovic 2-1).
2. Federer (56% of victories, leads Agassi and Djokovic combined 5-4).
3. Djokovic (44% of victories, he's 4-5 against Federer and Nadal combined).
4. Agassi (30% of victories, he's 3-10 against Lendl, Connors, Sampras and Federer combined).

H2H against players with 10+ Slams at the USO:
1. Nadal (67% of victories, leads Djokovic 2-1).
2. Federer (50% of victories, he's 3-3 against Djokovic).
3. Djokovic (50% of victories, he's 3-3 against Federer).
4. Agassi (14% of victories, he's 1-6 against Sampras and Federer combined).

Logico-methodological conclusion: Agassi is an inferior USO player than any of the Big 3 members.

Why are you comparing Agassi to three players born 11-17 years after him rather than to his contemporaries or near-contemporaries (Sampras/Courier/Becker/Edberg, etc)?

 

[mcs1970]

So the gist of this thread is that Andre is an inferior USO player to the big 3?

Andre is an inferior player to the big 3. Period. It has little to do with the USO or his talent but more about him wasting away many years due to his personal issues. The big 3 maximized every bit of their god given ability by being focused on and off the court.

 

[nolefam_2024]

You are being bit disrespectful. Should we also take Djokovic's 2018 USO then RG 2016, 2023 lets take his RG' titles. He didn't win those with Nadal. Would you be happy then? So it's not fair.
It is what it is. Nadal is not the only one who won with easy draw thats my point.

I am not being disrespectful at all. Djokovic USO 2018 draw is far better than Nadal USO 2017 draw. It's not just about Djokovic. Nadal had no top 20 players. You are being obtuse now.

 

[mike danny]

So the gist of this thread is that Andre is an inferior USO player to the big 3?

Andre is an inferior player to the big 3. Period. It has little to do with the USO or his talent but more about him wasting away many years due to his personal issues. The big 3 maximized every bit of their god given ability by being focused on and off the court.

This. Agassi could've won more if he'd been more focused and if he hadn't skipped so many AO's. There were certainly openings for him if he had Big 3 focus and consistency.

 

[nolefam_2024]

So the gist of this thread is that Andre is an inferior USO player to the big 3?

Andre is an inferior player to the big 3. Period. It has little to do with the USO or his talent but more about him wasting away many years due to his personal issues. The big 3 maximized every bit of their god given ability by being focused on and off the court.

What talent did he waste at USO ? He always made it his priority and was flat out defeated by better players. USO is his home slam. It's different for Andre than other 3 slams.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Giving Andre such a huge pass because he wasted his talent is really troublesome.

 

[DSH]

Federer, Pete, Connors are in their own tier. Nadal/Djokovic are with Lendl, Mac, Agassi in the tier below. Both inflated their counts there since 2017 with freebie draws.

Wimbledon 2017 and Australian Open 2018 say Hello!

 

[fedfan24]

I am not being disrespectful at all. Djokovic USO 2018 draw is far better than Nadal USO 2017 draw. It's not just about Djokovic. Nadal had no top 20 players. You are being obtuse now.

Both pretty bad. Only player of note for either was del potro.

 

[fedfan24]

Wimbledon 2017 and Australian Open 2018 say Hello!

true but fed already had 5 and 7 slams there. It would be Federer bumping his rg totals up with wins over Tsitsipas or Ruud for example.

 

[Aestheticsaboveallelse]

Courier arguably an ATG and not Becker! Would love to know why you think so...

Go check Agassis h2h record vs Boris

 

[mcs1970]

What talent did he waste at USO ? He always made it his priority and was flat out defeated by better players. USO is his home slam. It's different for Andre than other 3 slams.

When you have not given your best off the court, there is no way you can say he gave his best shot. For a lot of years, Andre was undisciplined off the court.

 

[nolefam_2024]

When you have not given your best off the court, there is no way you can say he gave his best shot. For a lot of years, Andre was undisciplined off the court.

That is huge copout.

 

[mcs1970]

That is huge copout.

This is the truth. If you don’t know it go read his autobiography

 

[nolefam_2024]

This is the truth. If you don’t know it go read his autobiography

I have read it but it proves very little. Andre puts too much stock in himself.

 

[mcs1970]

I have read it but it proves very little. Andre puts too much stock in himself.

Dude. When someone has drug issues and also never put serious work off the court for fitness, they have not given their best shot at winning something. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to deduce that.

Andre off the court in his 30s was what he should have been in his 20s.

 

[jl809]

Pretty easy factos

• Peak Agassi > peak Fed at the USO. 2006 Fed would have best shot but I don’t back 04, 05 after they were so meh against the old man
• While 1995 peak Agassi might not beat 2010 Nadal or 2011 Djokovic because of their consistency and physicality, 1994/1999 would both beat 2013dal / 2015ovic
• Below that, sort of “prime” Agassi (2001, 2002) comfortably beats the lesser Big 3 versions eg 2011 Nadal, 2007-2009 Fed, 2007/13 Djokovic
• Old Agassi (2004/2005) comfortably hammers the rest of the Big 3 (2017/19 Nadal, 2011/15 Fed, any of the loser Djokovic versions)
• Fed has more “good” versions overall (all of 04-09, plus 2011, 2015). So his title count being clear makes sense. But not so clear that 5 > 2 is justified
• Djokodal being on 4 each with Agassi on 2 is HILARIOUS

So yeah

 

[mike danny]

Pretty easy factos

• Peak Agassi > peak Fed at the USO. 2006 Fed would have best shot but I don’t back 04, 05 after they were so meh against the old man
• While 1995 peak Agassi might not beat 2010 Nadal or 2011 Djokovic because of their consistency and physicality, 1994/1999 would both beat 2013dal / 2015ovic
• Below that, sort of “prime” Agassi (2001, 2002) comfortably beats the lesser Big 3 versions eg 2011 Nadal, 2007-2009 Fed, 2007/13 Djokovic
• Old Agassi (2004/2005) comfortably hammers the rest of the Big 3 (2017/19 Nadal, 2011/15 Fed, any of the loser Djokovic versions)

So yeah

Are you sure about 1999? He had to come back from 1-2 down to beat Todd Martin.

 

[jl809]

Are you sure about 1999? He had to come back from 1-2 down to beat Todd Martin.

True, but that match was very good iirc