Blatant Cheating in USTA Tournament

[dandruffkb]

I just played a finals today, score was 6-3, 3-6, 0-1 (6-10).
Obviously, all is said and done now, but what to do if someone is blatantly cheating?

TL;DR of match:
won first set, literally no shady calls, just one really close call, but easily discussed and reached an agreement to replay point on my ace.
second set, immediately like 3 shady calls in the first game. I demanded we need an umpire. Umpire came for 3 games. Peace and quiet for 3 games. No more weird calls or anything. Umpire left saying that it looks okay now (was called to another court). All of a sudden, the next 4 games, we have over 12+ disputes on balls being in or out.

Now the funniest thing is that he was so sure with his calls or something. He legit told me to "ask them" (bystanders/spectators) complete strangers, and they all told him it was in, but he just said "sorry, I saw it as out" and took it. I KNOW the rules are that it was his call, but what on earth is he telling me to ask others when he was just going to keep his call anyways???

If I hit out, I know I hit out, if I hit CLOSE to out, I know it could be a close call and possibly out. If I hit 1 foot in the line or hit a great shot, why is it that it's 100% out? For the rest of second set, I felt like if I didn't hit middle of the court, I'd get an "OUT" call. How do I even play?

Come tie-breaker, 3 points were called terribly, 2 available umpires all preoccupied for other last sets for bigger tournament like Men's/Women's Open.

I've had super close calls in matches before, but I always knew it was unintentional or way too close to call for a lot of those. This one seemed beyond blatant and felt like there was nothing I could do besides stop play until an Umpire was available. In semis, an umpire even saw me call a ball out, it dropped and bit the back of the baseline, and I just told the other player, I made a bad call and that it was his point. I always feel like I'm beyond generous and understanding on my side of the court and even generous when a ball I hit is out, but 20+ disputes in one match? That is a record for me.

I have been on a tennis grind for the past year, and I LOVE playing up, so whenever I lose, I always take it on the chin as it is match experience, and overall, I just really love tennis, but this is the first time ever that I feel like I can see why tennis sucks and that these USTA tournaments can be completely ruined by a single player in the bracket.

Has anyone else experienced this? All of my friends are saying I should have hooked him, but besides that... what else could I have done?

I don't mind getting a Runner-Up trophy, I mind getting one because of a player like him, lol. Hard to take a loss on the chin when the outcome was like this.

Again, sorry for the rant, just so frustrating...

 

[dandruffkb]

I guess the TL;DR is still long, sorry, lol...

 

[Jst21121]

No one argues if the ball gets hit into the net. When I encounter potential cheaters I switch to a more “pushing” play style and let them do the unforced errors. Eventually they get mad at themselves and lose that way.

I can push for days. So that’s my go to approach.

 

[Nostradamus]

I just played a finals today, score was 6-3, 3-6, 0-1 (6-10).
Obviously, all is said and done now, but what to do if someone is blatantly cheating?

TL;DR of match:
won first set, literally no shady calls, just one really close call, but easily discussed and reached an agreement to replay point on my ace.
second set, immediately like 3 shady calls in the first game. I demanded we need an umpire. Umpire came for 3 games. Peace and quiet for 3 games. No more weird calls or anything. Umpire left saying that it looks okay now (was called to another court). All of a sudden, the next 4 games, we have over 12+ disputes on balls being in or out.

Now the funniest thing is that he was so sure with his calls or something. He legit told me to "ask them" (bystanders/spectators) complete strangers, and they all told him it was in, but he just said "sorry, I saw it as out" and took it. I KNOW the rules are that it was his call, but what on earth is he telling me to ask others when he was just going to keep his call anyways???

If I hit out, I know I hit out, if I hit CLOSE to out, I know it could be a close call and possibly out. If I hit 1 foot in the line or hit a great shot, why is it that it's 100% out? For the rest of second set, I felt like if I didn't hit middle of the court, I'd get an "OUT" call. How do I even play?

Come tie-breaker, 3 points were called terribly, 2 available umpires all preoccupied for other last sets for bigger tournament like Men's/Women's Open.

I've had super close calls in matches before, but I always knew it was unintentional or way too close to call for a lot of those. This one seemed beyond blatant and felt like there was nothing I could do besides stop play until an Umpire was available. In semis, an umpire even saw me call a ball out, it dropped and bit the back of the baseline, and I just told the other player, I made a bad call and that it was his point. I always feel like I'm beyond generous and understanding on my side of the court and even generous when a ball I hit is out, but 20+ disputes in one match? That is a record for me.

I have been on a tennis grind for the past year, and I LOVE playing up, so whenever I lose, I always take it on the chin as it is match experience, and overall, I just really love tennis, but this is the first time ever that I feel like I can see why tennis sucks and that these USTA tournaments can be completely ruined by a single player in the bracket.

Has anyone else experienced this? All of my friends are saying I should have hooked him, but besides that... what else could I have done?

I don't mind getting a Runner-Up trophy, I mind getting one because of a player like him, lol. Hard to take a loss on the chin when the outcome was like this.

Again, sorry for the rant, just so frustrating...

So like i mean seriously,,,, When and When will the electronic line calling come to the USTA matches and even club matches....................We need it desperately,, even more than the Pros. these idiots adults that cheat will also use Reverse psychology on you as well... and try to make you look like you are cheating.... all the while they are planning the times when they can cheat and get away with it.....................

 

[dandruffkb]

So like i mean seriously,,,, When and When will the electronic line calling come to the USTA matches and even club matches....................We need it desperately,, even more than the Pros. these idiots adults that cheat will also use Reverse psychology on you as well... and try to make you look like you are cheating.... all the while they are planning the times when they can cheat and get away with it.....................

Sounds like a dream to have electric line calling ever in my life... if that was an option, I would love to only join tournaments with it even if it's only available at one location and once a year lol. But I assume implementing that across the whole world would take quite a bit of resources and by the end of it, these tournaments aren't really "pro tournaments", so I guess priority goes to them... given even most ITF tournaments don't have electric line calling, might be another century before they care about USTA matches/clubs/recreational, if ever...

But you took the words out of my mouth... I thought he was asking the spectators and stuff for reassurance and I was the insane one. I was literally being gaslit on the tennis court

No one argues if the ball gets hit into the net. When I encounter potential cheaters I switch to a more “pushing” play style and let them do the unforced errors. Eventually they get mad at themselves and lose that way.

I can push for days. So that’s my go to approach.

Idk... feels like all of my coaches are telling me to hit with depth. Even if I am "pushing" I'd want to hit it deep down the middle, but if I did that, a ball would be called out. Idk how I feel about changing up my whole game to just idk... send it down the middle of the court and depth of the service line because of his calls. It just affects the rest of my game mentally if I'm changing up how I'm playing to do less with the ball when I shouldn't be, but I get what you mean. No disputes if he or I hit it in the net.

 

[PRS]

There's really just no good option. I would've hoped an umpire would at least come back for the tiebreak, but apparently not. I recommend just taking the high road and dealing with it, maybe trying to play shots even further in the court, but that's not likely to actually work. Either the hooking will continue or they'll win because you're now hitting easier shots to return.

Other options (that I don't endorse but can be used):
-Hook back, increasingly obvious until they agree to play fair.
-Just start tanking, making it obvious you aren't trying anymore; if they say anything, say that if they want to win so bad they're going to cheat, you'll just let them win.
-Sit down and refuse to play until an umpire comes (I don't recommend; tournament officials, other players, spectators will all get mad at you)
-Just walk up to the net, shake their hand, and say they win without finishing the match.

 

[Airspun]

Over 12 disputes in 4 games? Bruh. I would literally walk off court and call them a despicable unsportsmanlike cheater to their face and tell them you can have the match if you want it so bad, but that they’re a total loser cheater at life and warn everyone else.

 

[jimmy8]

Next time eat as many Big Macs as you can right before the match. After the first set, tell him there's free tshirts at the front desk. While he's away take a big dump in his tennis bag, hopefully there's diarrhea. Make sure you move all of his stuff into the compartment that you **** in.

 

[LOBALOT]

The OP did not specify so I am going to assume that @dandruffkb is an under 18 junior player is that correct?

 

[Pass750]

20+ in one match, that’s pretty absurd. Most matches I play maybe have 2 or 3 that are close, but even then we play like gentleman and there is rarely a dispute. Were these balls on the baseline, sideline?

I rarely question calls, one bad one I would let go, a second bad one I might say are you sure, depending on how that went if there was a 3rd bad call we would be having a discussion and ultimately if they were a dick I would probably walk off court and end the match. In a tournament, would either just deal with it or make a stink and demand an umpire for whole match.

 

[socallefty]

Just curious what level this is. I have a theory that there is more cheating at lower levels, but it is just an anecdotal feeling based on social tennis. Higher the level, the players know almost always when they hit a ball whether it is going in or out and so both players tend to be more cautious with bad line calls. I do feel that tournament players cheat more than those playing with the same social group at a club.

 

[tennis3]

I just played a finals today, score was 6-3, 3-6, 0-1 (6-10).
Obviously, all is said and done now, but what to do if someone is blatantly cheating?

If he really makes this many bad line calls, he must have a reputation. Do you know anyone else he's played?

On the flip side, I've played guys that hit hard and flat and question every single line call all match long. They seem convinced that, because they hit hard (overhit), all their "amazing" shots must be in.

 

[Jst21121]

There's really just no good option. I would've hoped an umpire would at least come back for the tiebreak, but apparently not. I recommend just taking the high road and dealing with it, maybe trying to play shots even further in the court, but that's not likely to actually work. Either the hooking will continue or they'll win because you're now hitting easier shots to return.

Other options (that I don't endorse but can be used):
-Hook back, increasingly obvious until they agree to play fair.
-Just start tanking, making it obvious you aren't trying anymore; if they say anything, say that if they want to win so bad they're going to cheat, you'll just let them win.
-Sit down and refuse to play until an umpire comes (I don't recommend; tournament officials, other players, spectators will all get mad at you)
-Just walk up to the net, shake their hand, and say they win without finishing the match.

I’ve thought about walking off the court too. I think that’s a reasonable thing if you are playing 4.5- and below. For 99% of players at usta level, we will never be pro so playing for some competition and fun is what drives all of us.

If I’m going to play against a blatant cheater and get riled up- why even bother? Yes it sucks to lose but I’m ok with saying- you can have the win- as you do cheat and go on with my life and not let it rile me up.

 

[dandruffkb]

I'll try to answer all of these!

Over 12 disputes in 4 games? Bruh. I would literally walk off court and call them a despicable unsportsmanlike cheater to their face and tell them you can have the match if you want it so bad, but that they’re a total loser cheater at life and warn everyone else.

I only started playing tournaments a tad ago... never really dealt with one before, so walking off the court never really came to mind. Figured I just had to suffer and play it out and hope I don't get hooked for whatever reason.

The OP did not specify so I am going to assume that @dandruffkb is an under 18 junior player is that correct?

Just curious what level this is. I have a theory that there is more cheating at lower levels, but it is just an anecdotal feeling based on social tennis. Higher the level, the players know almost always when they hit a ball whether it is going in or out and so both players tend to be more cautious with bad line calls. I do feel that tournament players cheat more than those playing with the same social group at a club.

I guess I can answer both of these in 1! I am an adult (25) who plays USTA 4.0 Flex leagues (2-1 record right now in current league), but this tournament was 3.5 (2nd tournament in SoCal, refuse to move to 4.0 tournaments until I win, but I might just consider this a win and move up so my tournaments matches my flex leagues as well). I started 2-ish years ago but play every single day w/ coaching weekly as I'm desperate/feels like I picked it up too late. I agree with you, I know when I hit a ball and it is not out, and I can also tell when it is close, so that was what frustrated me.

20+ in one match, that’s pretty absurd. Most matches I play maybe have 2 or 3 that are close, but even then we play like gentleman and there is rarely a dispute. Were these balls on the baseline, sideline?

I rarely question calls, one bad one I would let go, a second bad one I might say are you sure, depending on how that went if there was a 3rd bad call we would be having a discussion and ultimately if they were a dick I would probably walk off court and end the match. In a tournament, would either just deal with it or make a stink and demand an umpire for whole match.

I 1000000% agree with you. I've had been on both sides of close calls, so I get it, but I've never ever seen a match go over 5. The fact that it happened probably more than 5 times in just half a set, I had no idea what to do. Starting to feel like my only 3 options truly were:
1. Seem like a brat and demand umpire or no play even if we had to wait it out a long time
2. Hook him back
3. Take it on the chin

And as for your other question, definitely both. But the ones that frustrated me more were definitely sidelines. If he gives me a short ball and I hit a short angle with my approach shot, and I can promise you at least 5+ that were 10000000% in (not even on/outside of the line) were in, they would be called out. Multiple scenarios where he was on the ad side of the court and I would hit a down the line back hand, perfectly in, and clearly in this scenario, I have the better angle of the ball/line, it would 100% somehow be his point. Felt like when I had the opportunity to go in, the only option I had yesterday was to push it back in the middle and do a rally that had to be consistently short.

If he really makes this many bad line calls, he must have a reputation. Do you know anyone else he's played?

On the flip side, I've played guys that hit hard and flat and question every single line call all match long. They seem convinced that, because they hit hard (overhit), all their "amazing" shots must be in.

I checked his account. Just self-rated, 2nd tournament, no league matches, has only played 3 people (including me) (multiple walk-overs).

 

[Connor35]

I'm amazed more people don't walk off.

If a guy is hooking twenty calls, you can't win.

I might try just hitting hard middle over and over and let him make mistakes. If he's 3.5 and you're a 4.0, you should be able to beat him by hitting with decent pace down the middle. 3.5s can't keep rallies going that long (I know, I'm a 3.5).

Or if that didn't work and I was really annoyed I wouldn't give him the satisfaction of winning. I'd just say "If the win is that important, take the win. You're not worth my time."

Chances are that won't affect him -- obviously winning to cheat doesn't matter to him -- but it may be better for your sanity.

Though I think some people are legitimately clueless. Like the one you mentioned where you're watching it down the line and he's looking across court. Some people are just ridiculously bad when it comes to spacial things. So he may even need to have someone call lines for him until he can calibrate whats in vs. what's out from a distance [I acknowledge Im probably just being nice here].

 

[Jst21121]

I'll try to answer all of these!


I only started playing tournaments a tad ago... never really dealt with one before, so walking off the court never really came to mind. Figured I just had to suffer and play it out and hope I don't get hooked for whatever reason.


I guess I can answer both of these in 1! I am an adult (25) who plays USTA 4.0 Flex leagues (2-1 record right now in current league), but this tournament was 3.5 (2nd tournament in SoCal, refuse to move to 4.0 tournaments until I win, but I might just consider this a win and move up so my tournaments matches my flex leagues as well). I started 2-ish years ago but play every single day w/ coaching weekly as I'm desperate/feels like I picked it up too late. I agree with you, I know when I hit a ball and it is not out, and I can also tell when it is close, so that was what frustrated me.


I 1000000% agree with you. I've had been on both sides of close calls, so I get it, but I've never ever seen a match go over 5. The fact that it happened probably more than 5 times in just half a set, I had no idea what to do. Starting to feel like my only 3 options truly were:
1. Seem like a brat and demand umpire or no play even if we had to wait it out a long time
2. Hook him back
3. Take it on the chin

And as for your other question, definitely both. But the ones that frustrated me more were definitely sidelines. If he gives me a short ball and I hit a short angle with my approach shot, and I can promise you at least 5+ that were 10000000% in (not even on/outside of the line) were in, they would be called out. Multiple scenarios where he was on the ad side of the court and I would hit a down the line back hand, perfectly in, and clearly in this scenario, I have the better angle of the ball/line, it would 100% somehow be his point. Felt like when I had the opportunity to go in, the only option I had yesterday was to push it back in the middle and do a rally that had to be consistently short.


I checked his account. Just self-rated, 2nd tournament, no league matches, has only played 3 people (including me) (multiple walk-overs).

3.5-4.0 can still push to win. Just rally until balls go into net. Safe shots.

Blasting winners against a hooker at 3.5 is asking to get hooked.

At the end of the day, I think it’s important to take note why you play tennis and for what. Me? Exercise, fun, competition. Playing against a hooker is no fun… so retiring the match is valid. Why get riled up? If it was an egregious bad hooker I’ll prob retire the match and then just do suicides on court for the rest of the time, get my workout in and go home.

 

[cks]

Has anyone else experienced this?

Like most players, I've been on the receiving end of bad lines calls. But I have not experience what you described in your match.

All of my friends are saying I should have hooked him, but besides that... what else could I have done?

I would not have hooked back. I may have just played through it and try to place the ball with bigger margins. Either way, sounds like a terrible match.

 

[socallefty]

Why do you hit so many balls close to the lines? I’ve played outright cheaters, but typically they get a chance to hook only on 3-4 line calls and maybe another 3-4 service calls during a match. You can usually hit winners or force errors aiming a foot or two inside the lines except on serves. I tend to aim close to the lines on first serves and so ‘hookers’ get more chance to cheat on those - sometimes they make me switch to a heavy dose of body serves if I’m not getting any close line calls.

 

[dandruffkb]

Why do you hit so many balls close to the lines? I’ve played outright cheaters, but typically they get a chance to hook only on 3-4 line calls and maybe another 3-4 service calls during a match. You can usually hit winners or force errors aiming a foot or two inside the lines except on serves. I tend to aim close to the lines on first serves and so ‘hookers’ get more chance to cheat on those - sometimes they make me switch to a heavy dose of body serves if I’m not getting any close line calls.

Not sure how to answer this correctly. It eventually reached a point where I wouldn't go for sidelines anymore, but I always feel like I should do what's "right". In my post, I've stated that he would literally call balls that were in by a foot as out. And if I'm hitting balls down the center of the court to avoid him hooking the sidelines, I should at least hit it deep. Now those get hooked too? The only way to win is now play a court half the size of the court he is playing. Can't hit it deep, can't hit it too much to either side.

And let's say I could hypothetically win like that, I was in the middle of the match and was pretty hot-headed by then, even now, I don't think I could have dialed back and adapted to playing like that, that would just make me hate tennis even more.

At this point, I'm not so much frustrated about the loss anymore, I'm more frustrated that someone like him "won" lol. I think the consensus and I'll probably do it next time is just to walk off. Didn't want to be a drama queen about this, just flabbergasted that I even witnessed something like this. Never have I seen this much "hooking" in a match, definitely feels like an outlier.

 

[Roforot]

Yeah it's odd. Usually when you get to the point an umpire comes over, most cheaters will straighten out. I've never gotten to that point but I've seen it happen once or twice. I know it's difficult but I would have gone to the tournament director and complained. It can be tough if you're visiting someone else's club. I never want to get spectators involved. I don't know if you can file a grievance w/ the USTA over unsportsmanlike conduct? Otherwise, take a breath. You're not going to cure the world of this cheater this time but you still have your job, your car, you racquet etc. There will be other tournaments.

I usually get USTA surveys after the tournament, if you've settled, write out your concerns and have someone else look at it so it don't read like a crazy person rant.

Again, I'm assuming you're right about the blatant hooking. I've had times when I get so wound up about the match that I've played a ball a foot out and once after a long point in a tiebreak, I accidentally gave myself an extra point

 

[sureshs]

So like i mean seriously,,,, When and When will the electronic line calling come to the USTA matches and even club matches

Club fees will go up a lot.

 

[tennisjunkie]

Navigating public tennis courts can sometimes feel like walking a tightrope between right and wrong. In the heat of competition, players may resort to oversimplifying situations based on their own experiences, even if it means bending the rules. Your opponent's actions might have been a misguided attempt to level the playing field due to their own limitations. Jealousy can manifest its ugly head in various ways, but staying true to fair play will always be the mark of a true competitor.

 

[dandruffkb]

Navigating public tennis courts can sometimes feel like walking a tightrope between right and wrong. In the heat of competition, players may resort to oversimplifying situations based on their own experiences, even if it means bending the rules. Your opponent's actions might have been a misguided attempt to level the playing field due to their own limitations. Jealousy can manifest its ugly head in various ways, but staying true to fair play will always be the mark of a true competitor.

I like what you said, I like the way you said it, I still don't like the overall situation

But thank you everyone, I'll probably just move up to my league level for tournaments, even if I get out first round, I think I just prioritize higher quality matches. Highly unlikely I'll ever get in this bad of a situation again. Thanks for all of the input!

I think I'm over the trophy already, cheap and made of plastic anyway -- more for bragging rights, I'll make myself one that says 1st in sportsmanship for that tournament and I think I won... in my heart...

 

[chuckersthenut]

Never happened to me. I always go with the challenge him to fisticuffs option.

 

[ttwarrior1]

start doing make up calls. Call his out if its close, etc

 

[dandruffkb]

Never happened to me. I always go with the challenge him to fisticuffs option.

True, I mean worst case scenario and I lose in that as well, I had bystanders on my side... I think...

start doing make up calls. Call his out if its close, etc

Yeah... echoed 200 times in the post, idk... tempting but I couldn't bring myself to do it. Never have intentionally got back at anyone previously and also it's just a 3.5 tournament... I guess I've also never had 20+ disputes in a match :/

I guess I wasn't desperate enough and wanted to win "fair and square" even if it was one-sided lol. Slippery slope, that's probably how he started. Maybe someone did the same thing to him and converted him to join that side. I refuse to join the dark side... for now...

 

[TennisOTM]

I just want to commend you for staying true to your accurate line calls. I think you made the right choice. You lost the match but won the integrity battle, which is way more important.

 

[Connor35]

Yeah... echoed 200 times in the post, idk... tempting but I couldn't bring myself to do it. Never have intentionally got back at anyone previously and also it's just a 3.5 tournament... I guess I've also never had 20+ disputes in a match :/

Same. (a) You'll never regret taking the high road. (b) I'd rather lose than cheat. Because winning via cheating isn't winning.

 

[am1899]

Very frustrating indeed. My whole career I’ve taken the high road in these situations. But this past summer I finally lost it and retaliated. Not saying it’s for you or anyone else for that matter. Neither am I proud of it. But FWIW, it did have the desired effect - the bad line calls stopped immediately and we got on with playing tennis.

 

[StoicBoxer]

Next time eat as many Big Macs as you can right before the match. After the first set, tell him there's free tshirts at the front desk. While he's away take a big dump in his tennis bag, hopefully there's diarrhea. Make sure you move all of his stuff into the compartment that you **** in.

That might be going a little overboard.

 

[StoicBoxer]

Do you have swing vision? I find that filming matches with Birds Eye view set up keeps people a bit more honest knowing you’ll be able to review tape after the match. Not a perfect solution, but it can help.

 

[ChrisJR3264]

Over 12 disputes in 4 games? Bruh. I would literally walk off court and call them a despicable unsportsmanlike cheater to their face and tell them you can have the match if you want it so bad, but that they’re a total loser cheater at life and warn everyone else.

Not a usta match but that’s exactly we did in a league doubles match. Technically won the first set 4 times with clean winners or serves.
Lost set in tie breaker. Then after multiple BS calls that were clearly in - just walked out. Not in the mood to deal with nonsense.

Some say who cares to take cheating like that. But why cheat in recreational tennis? Some players just have no integrity to call a clean game.

 

[jimmy8]

That might be going a little overboard.

Yeah, but not really?!

 

[dandruffkb]

Do you have swing vision? I find that filming matches with Birds Eye view set up keeps people a bit more honest knowing you’ll be able to review tape after the match. Not a perfect solution, but it can help.

I haven't really had to deal with this extreme of a situation before, so I didn't think I needed to pull out everything and record an official tournament especially when I had the resource of the umpire (which I wish lasted longer). But yeah, next time, I guess the next best option is to ask them if I can record and see if that'd tone it down.

Not a usta match but that’s exactly we did in a league doubles match. Technically won the first set 4 times with clean winners or serves.
Lost set in tie breaker. Then after multiple BS calls that were clearly in - just walked out. Not in the mood to deal with nonsense.

Some say who cares to take cheating like that. But why cheat in recreational tennis? Some players just have no integrity to call a clean game.

The first few times in my match, I gave him the benefit of the doubt and genuinely just believed some people have terrible eyes and make a few bad calls, but after it happened over and over and over and over again, I mentally snapped and just dreaded finishing the game. The more I think about it, the more I think I'll eventually walk out of a future game if something like this happens again.

 

[Robert F]

If he really makes this many bad line calls, he must have a reputation. Do you know anyone else he's played?

On the flip side, I've played guys that hit hard and flat and question every single line call all match long. They seem convinced that, because they hit hard (overhit), all their "amazing" shots must be in.

Ostepenko Style!

 

[Robert F]

Agree we really need electronic line calling for any type of USTA match.
Cheating is rampant in the junior leagues. Has been a big contributor to people dropping out of USTA play.
At the higher level all the kids and parents know who the cheaters are, but USTA doesn't do anything to rectify it.

I feel I see it much less frequently in Adult leagues. But had experienced a few times, kills me when you are getting your butt kicked legitimately and on top of that they hook you.
Some people are just so afraid of losing its very sad.

I wish there was some type of rule where if you are getting hooked like crazy, you decide to default due to hooking. Opposing player/hooker gets the win but then gets a strike against him/her. 3 strikes from 3 different competitors means some type of suspension. My only fear with a rule like this, is would cheaters use this rule against legit people?

 

[dandruffkb]

Agree we really need electronic line calling for any type of USTA match.
Cheating is rampant in the junior leagues. Has been a big contributor to people dropping out of USTA play.
At the higher level all the kids and parents know who the cheaters are, but USTA doesn't do anything to rectify it.

I feel I see it much less frequently in Adult leagues. But had experienced a few times, kills me when you are getting your butt kicked legitimately and on top of that they hook you.
Some people are just so afraid of losing its very sad.

I wish there was some type of rule where if you are getting hooked like crazy, you decide to default due to hooking. Opposing player/hooker gets the win but then gets a strike against him/her. 3 strikes from 3 different competitors means some type of suspension. My only fear with a rule like this, is would cheaters use this rule against legit people?

Not USTA, but I know UTR Flex Leagues has a 2 strike policy or something like that.
From their site: https://support.universaltennis.com...rts-tennis-flex-leagues-rules-and-regulations

3. Line Calls: There are no officials on site and players must call their own lines and scores. We expect the highest level of honesty and integrity. Flex League Managers reserve the right to disqualify you from the league if they receive two or more complaints.

But again, this is flex leagues and not tournaments...

I feel like it's also hard to manage as depending on when the hook is or even if it's just a genuine bad call, their opponent can give them a strike even though there were no malicious actions.
I will play devil's advocate for my own scenario, I genuinely believe that he fully believed some of my balls were out. I can't say all... I am relatively certain some of the calls that happened were blatant and intentional at least the ones I can confirm that I saw, felt, and knew were in.
But let's say someone is unintentionally a TERRIBLE line-caller, would the strike system work as well? Hard to find the perfect balance there.

 

[TennisBro]

With or without an umpire, such situations are not uncommon in ITF/junior ITF Futures. When my 15-year-old son played in a J60 junior ITF tournament's final (hard court) and called the service ball out about 2-3 seconds later, he was told his call was too late and that the ball was on the line. When he asked the umpire to come check the print that was out there, this ITF official refused to get up from his chair. That very ball was my son's set point in the tiebreaker of the second set which was his life-line as he lost the first set; he went on losing the next tree balls in frustration and so the whole match then. This was in Africa with a hot noon time and the last match of the whole tournament and it looked like the umpire just wanted to finish and go home.

I teach my son to be prepared for such situations and not lose his cool. Whether it is possible to keep it all together or not is another thing. Those kinds of moments are extremely tough; decisions to call the balls instantly out or not may be as demanding. When tournaments don't have contingencies for such situations, things can get out of hands. I've seen people physically fight with officials on the international tour too. I've heard/seen recordings of juniors making the umpires look absolutely foolish before. So, this isn't just the USTA that may be having such issues.

 

[ChrisJR3264]

I haven't really had to deal with this extreme of a situation before, so I didn't think I needed to pull out everything and record an official tournament especially when I had the resource of the umpire (which I wish lasted longer). But yeah, next time, I guess the next best option is to ask them if I can record and see if that'd tone it down.


The first few times in my match, I gave him the benefit of the doubt and genuinely just believed some people have terrible eyes and make a few bad calls, but after it happened over and over and over and over again, I mentally snapped and just dreaded finishing the game. The more I think about it, the more I think I'll eventually walk out of a future game if something like this happens again.

Yeah I hear you.
I know that some calls are sometimes not going to go your way on close calls. I error in the side of its close I play it which probably means I play a few balls that may be out. But hey who cares? If I’m not confident a close ball coming in hot - may or may not have hit the line: I play it.

 

[ChaelAZ]

I will just throw out the other side of the unknowns here. First. you say you've been playing a few years, only started tournaments more recently, but believe you know when a ball is in or out. However, I have never seen anyone make dozens of bad line calls in a match, so I only have two thoughts - that the opponent just doesn't see lines very well, or your judgement of the lines on the far side of the court isn't as sure as you might think. Or maybe a combination of both. I've helped coach HS tennis and worked a ton of juniors events, but never even heard of anything so egregious. I think what would be extremely helpful is if you run up against another situation like this, ask someone to video the match for you to review. Or heck, even video a practice match from the opponents side, then review and pay attention to balls you think are in/out on the other side and where they actually land. I've been a bit humbled myself doing this.

Not saying it couldn't or didn't happen, just like I said, I haven't even heard of anything like this with so many calls. A few blatant calls on important points...happens more often then any of us want, but that is extensive.

I am never one to say hook bad personally, as I think winning the tennis game is infinitely less important to me than being known as a quality sportsman, and more so, being known as a bad sportsman. But you should ALWAYS question calls and let them know you are questioning their judgement. And if you do have video you can always talk with the LC or tourney director about the situation, if nothing else to make them aware in case others have complained or do complain.

In any case, you handled it really well. I've only dealt with it a few times, but it is the worst part of competing...feeling cheated.

 

[bobleenov1963]

My question to all of you is why would you even care about winning or losing? The purpose is to have fun. It is not like you would get a promotion from winning the tennis match. If you want to play someone who make many questionable line calls, just stop playing, shake his hands and tell him you would avoid to play with him in future tournaments if you happen to play him against.

I remembered one time when my son played in a USTA tournament and his opponent's father was someone who worked as a government contractor and his boss had to report to my wife who is a federal government employee. Well, the kid made so many questionable lines calls that my son stopped playing and let that kid win. I told my wife about what happened when I got home and my wife had a conversation with the kid father's boss the following day. Apparently his boss told the father that he either tells his kid to stop cheating or he would get fired from the job. From that point forward, the cheating stopped every time I saw that kid in tournaments.

 

[tennis3]

My question to all of you is why would you even care about winning or losing? The purpose is to have fun.

Apparently his boss told the father that he either tells his kid to stop cheating or he would get fired from the job.

This is what it means to not care about winning or losing and just have fun?

 

[bobleenov1963]

This is what it means to not care about winning or losing and just have fun?

yes, the purpose is to have fun. At the same time, you teach your kids not to be bullied by others. Take revenge whenever you have a chance which I do in this case.

 

[tennis3]

Take revenge whenever you have a chance

Words to live by

 

[dandruffkb]

I will just throw out the other side of the unknowns here. First. you say you've been playing a few years, only started tournaments more recently, but believe you know when a ball is in or out. However, I have never seen anyone make dozens of bad line calls in a match, so I only have two thoughts - that the opponent just doesn't see lines very well, or your judgement of the lines on the far side of the court isn't as sure as you might think. Or maybe a combination of both. I've helped coach HS tennis and worked a ton of juniors events, but never even heard of anything so egregious. I think what would be extremely helpful is if you run up against another situation like this, ask someone to video the match for you to review. Or heck, even video a practice match from the opponents side, then review and pay attention to balls you think are in/out on the other side and where they actually land. I've been a bit humbled myself doing this.

Not saying it couldn't or didn't happen, just like I said, I haven't even heard of anything like this with so many calls. A few blatant calls on important points...happens more often then any of us want, but that is extensive.

I am never one to say hook bad personally, as I think winning the tennis game is infinitely less important to me than being known as a quality sportsman, and more so, being known as a bad sportsman. But you should ALWAYS question calls and let them know you are questioning their judgement. And if you do have video you can always talk with the LC or tourney director about the situation, if nothing else to make them aware in case others have complained or do complain.

In any case, you handled it really well. I've only dealt with it a few times, but it is the worst part of competing...feeling cheated.

Appreciate the response! I love hearing the other possible side as clearly he's not here to defend himself! I'd love to address this from MY pov. I am clearly by no means a professional, if I rip a ball and it is around the baseline, I would understand if it actually was out. But I have played plenty of matches (leagues/flex leagues (USTA/UTR/city's league -- 2-3 matches weekly on top of practice matches/rallies/lessons), and I tend to know when I overhit or when I strike the ball incorrectly.

In terms of hitting it deep, I'm more than certain I hit a few just slightly out and just wanted to confirm his call. But I also saw plenty that bounced WITHIN the line (I guess the bad part about being so low is that it's hard to sometimes break the habit of staring and watching your own shot for too long). And there were a few approach shot that landed clearly within the baseline. I'm rushing to net after and it is well within the court.

On the other hand, the ones that truly got to me (discussed somewhere in this thread) are the down-the-line backhands where I have a clear view of the shot from the ad side while he's on the ad side of his court with a much harder view to tell if the ball was in. I would even significantly pull my shots away from the line but it seemed that his calls from "WIDE" bothered me thousands more than the shots that went "LONG".

My question to all of you is why would you even care about winning or losing? The purpose is to have fun. It is not like you would get a promotion from winning the tennis match. If you want to play someone who make many questionable line calls, just stop playing, shake his hands and tell him you would avoid to play with him in future tournaments if you happen to play him against.

I remembered one time when my son played in a USTA tournament and his opponent's father was someone who worked as a government contractor and his boss had to report to my wife who is a federal government employee. Well, the kid made so many questionable lines calls that my son stopped playing and let that kid win. I told my wife about what happened when I got home and my wife had a conversation with the kid father's boss the following day. Apparently his boss told the father that he either tells his kid to stop cheating or he would get fired from the job. From that point forward, the cheating stopped every time I saw that kid in tournaments.

I'm a pretty competitive person by nature, so for me, it's hard to have fun when a match goes like this. In terms of leagues/practice matches, I do think I tend to just play to improve, but I feel that in a tournament, I have a bigger urge to win especially if I'm already in the finals. I mean ultimately, playing my best is how I have fun in tennis so regardless of win/lose, if I played well that day, that's my "fun". Now let's say I play well and hit a shot I like and think I did well on setting up the next shot/point and my "good shot" is now "out" and all of that vanishes, I am no longer having "fun." Before this whole thing, I've never "walked out" on a match (well once because of injury), so it didn't even like come to me at the moment.

 

[jimmy8]

Invalidating and/or minimizing other people's experience is terrible in many ways. So is cheating. They usually go hand in hand.

 

[Roforot]

Agree we really need electronic line calling for any type of USTA match.
Cheating is rampant in the junior leagues. Has been a big contributor to people dropping out of USTA play.
At the higher level all the kids and parents know who the cheaters are, but USTA doesn't do anything to rectify it.

I feel I see it much less frequently in Adult leagues. But had experienced a few times, kills me when you are getting your butt kicked legitimately and on top of that they hook you.
Some people are just so afraid of losing its very sad.

I wish there was some type of rule where if you are getting hooked like crazy, you decide to default due to hooking. Opposing player/hooker gets the win but then gets a strike against him/her. 3 strikes from 3 different competitors means some type of suspension. My only fear with a rule like this, is would cheaters use this rule against legit people?

From what I've seen on here, a lot of the cheaters are also prone to accuse the other person of what they're doing...
Also, I've read that some will be insidious where early in the match they'll be overly generous w/ a line call or two especially in a game that's lopsided, but later at 4-4 when it's ad-out then they'll hook.

Recording matches is not always an option; some clubs or opponents don't allow it.
It'd be neat if there were some sort of option to use swingvision to challenge a call? Like 3 challenges per match? The question is if it would be fair in a league if a fraction of the players have swingvision for the ones who don't have it? Or if you have to offer it to every match?

 

[am1899]

But you should ALWAYS question calls and let them know you are questioning their judgement.

This is what all my coaches, parents, etc. told me all along the way. (And I do think it’s the right move for most, in most situations).

However, for me there are a couple caveats:

1. For the select few, truly intentional “hook artist” type players, they don’t care that you are questioning their judgement. They have no morals and no shame. “Are you sure,” etc. will not cause them to change their call, nor will it stop them from making subsequent bad calls.

2. Once I am fairly certain an opponent is intentionally cheating…my fear of getting hooked again, when it will happen, and the subsequent confrontations that are sure to ensue, eventually starts taking a toll on my own game. (True, some will deal better with this than others. Likely I’m not so great at it, lol).

3. IME some players who hook intentionally are trying to get under your skin, get you to react, get you off your game (see above). Sometimes I wonder if continuing to confront them about calls they make is akin to throwing gas on a fire - especially if they can tell you are getting upset the more they do it.

In either scenario, rather than continue questioning the calls of an opponent who continues hooking you, potentially getting yourself more and more upset, I would advise getting a lines official (again) ASAP. If you have to, stop play, walk to the tournament desk and tell the tournament director you won’t play any more points until there is a lines official on your court through the conclusion of the match. (Obviously, this won’t always be an option for every match you play, in which case you’ll have to manage it differently).

And if you do have video you can always talk with the LC or tourney director about the situation, if nothing else to make them aware in case others have complained or do complain.

Maybe I’m jaded at this point, but I wouldn’t waste the time (with LC’s and so on). Sooner or later word will be out on that player and people will deal with them accordingly.

In any case, you handled it really well. I've only dealt with it a few times, but it is the worst part of competing...feeling cheated.

Agreed, 100%.

 

[ChaelAZ]

I tend to know when I overhit or when I strike the ball incorrectly.

Yeah, been playing for a lot of years too, and I know I miss some calls, or after reviewing calls find it is really the opposite of what I "clearly" thought. And that's on my side. But shooting some video of a practice with a friend and looking at balls you think are out, or just how far in/out you think they are over 60 feet away..just saying it isn't always what we have in our head. And then, yeah...I play with some older guys and their calling is just bad. They literally will see a ball out that isn't. In their mind they are right and aren't trying to cheat. It just happens.

Again, I am just trying to give some other views of things.

...fairly certain an opponent is intentionally cheating

That's the hard part for sure. I give people the benefit of the doubt. Heck, there are times they call my ball out on their side, and it looked well wide to me, and I will question them on that too. I'd rather win or lose points than have them given or taken.

As far as the LC, it rarely does anything, and you are right that reputation finally catches up. We had a whole team out of a facility that had bad calls in almost every match we played, and against all the teams that season. It ended up, teams wouldn't even go so, or players would just default. They got the message pretty loud and clear. Interestingly, that team split up but all the players still play, and don't have any issues anymore. I think it is jut part of a group mentality or thinking.

I dunno.

 

[ChrisJR3264]

I will just throw out the other side of the unknowns here. First. you say you've been playing a few years, only started tournaments more recently, but believe you know when a ball is in or out. However, I have never seen anyone make dozens of bad line calls in a match, so I only have two thoughts - that the opponent just doesn't see lines very well, or your judgement of the lines on the far side of the court isn't as sure as you might think. Or maybe a combination of both. I've helped coach HS tennis and worked a ton of juniors events, but never even heard of anything so egregious. I think what would be extremely helpful is if you run up against another situation like this, ask someone to video the match for you to review. Or heck, even video a practice match from the opponents side, then review and pay attention to balls you think are in/out on the other side and where they actually land. I've been a bit humbled myself doing this.

Not saying it couldn't or didn't happen, just like I said, I haven't even heard of anything like this with so many calls. A few blatant calls on important points...happens more often then any of us want, but that is extensive.

I am never one to say hook bad personally, as I think winning the tennis game is infinitely less important to me than being known as a quality sportsman, and more so, being known as a bad sportsman. But you should ALWAYS question calls and let them know you are questioning their judgement. And if you do have video you can always talk with the LC or tourney director about the situation, if nothing else to make them aware in case others have complained or do complain.

In any case, you handled it really well. I've only dealt with it a few times, but it is the worst part of competing...feeling cheated.

My partner and I saw a dozen in my match 2 weeks ago (doubles ). So yes - it does happen. We walked out bc it simply was not motivating and too late in the evening to tolerate.