BreakPoint's opinion for why poly strings produce more spin

[BreakPoint]

Here are the reasons why I believe poly produces more spin than most other strings:

1. Poly strings are very stiff with low resiliency which means they don't stretch very much. In fact, when I string poly on my dropweight machine, the weight doesn't drop at all. It doesn't even budge because the string doesn't stretch. This means it takes a greater force to stretch or move the strings sideways during ball impact when you brush up on the ball. Since the strings stretch and move less sideways, they "give" less when you brush up on the ball so more of the energy of your swing goes towards spinning the ball rather than towards displacing the strings. The more the strings slide sideways, the more spin is lost. The greatest amount of spin is achieved if the strings don't move sideways at all. And since poly moves less than most other strings, they generate more spin.

2. Since poly creates a much stiffer stringbed with low resiliency, when the ball impacts the stingbed the ball compresses more and the stringbed stretches back or "gives" less (like hitting a wall). When the ball compresses more, a greater % of the ball's surface area is in contact with the stringbed. This allows more strings to "grab" the ball and spin it when you brush up. This is why poly creates more "bite" and why you get a loud, explosive "bang" when you hit the ball due to the greater compression of the ball.


I don't believe at all that the "snapping back" of the strings sideways is what makes poly create the extra spin because the ball has left the stringbed well before the strings snap back. Think about it. The force of the ball impacting the strings is what displaces the strings. When you brush up on the ball, you generate a tremendous downward pulling force on the strings trying to move them sideways. Now what force is there to counteract this to move the strings back while you are still brushing up on the ball? There is no external force but only the tensile force of the string which is significantly smaller than the tremendous downward pulling force you're generating by brushing up on the ball. There's no contest. Even if the strings could snap back fast enough during the few milliseconds that the ball is on the strings, it wouldn't be able to until after the ball has left because it would not be able to overcome the downward pulling force of the ball which is in the opposite direction.

Some empirical evidence: I currently have two identical racquets with full poly jobs, one with SPPP Pure 1.18 and one with Pacific X-Force 1.18. When I pull the mains sideways on the SPPP Pure, it snaps back quickly but not faster than the ball would leave the stringbed. When I pull the X-Force, it doesn't snap back at all. Even so, when I play with it, the strings stay perfectly straight attesting to how little the strings move even with the force of the ball impact is applied. So guess which one I get more spin out of? Without a doubt the X-Force, and I believe it's because it moves less, while the SPPP moves more easily and snaps back quickly.

In addtion, I find that I get less spin with a brand new syn gut string job because they still have that slippery coating on them to make them easier to string, but which also allows to string to "snap back" quickly when you pull them to the side. Once the slippery coating has worn off and the strings begin to notch with the crosses, they are more locked in place and I can generate much more spin. At this point, when I pull the string to the side, it no longer "snaps back" since there's too much friction on the surface of the strings without the slippery coating.

Also, I just noticed on the back of the package of the Polyfibre TCS I just got, it lists one of the playing advantages of this poly string as: "No slipping of the string".

 

[PBODY99]

Many players I string for like SnyGuts just before they break, as they feel that is when they have the most control. Interestingly this group doesn't use poly after a tryout due to the popular buzz as they don't like the feel. Note, I'm talking about the over 35 crowd.

 

[Pro_Tour_630]

BP I see what you are saying but most Poly for me feels slippery and does not produce spin as much as non slippery strings the likes of Gosen JC or Xone biphase.

 

[JacKKyKung]

In addtion, I find that I get less spin with a brand new syn gut string job because they still have that slippery coating on them to make them easier to string, but which also allows to string to "snap back" quickly when you pull them to the side. Once the slippery coating has worn off and the strings begin to notch with the crosses, they are more locked in place and I can generate much more spin. At this point, when I pull the string to the side, it no longer "snaps back" since there's too much friction on the surface of the strings without the slippery coating.

Why many brands of poly' claim that there string can generate much of spin, such as Alu rough. And how i know which brand is uncoat?

 

[jmverdugo]

I think you are right but i think this are the reason why poly allows a player to produce more topspin.

Also, by this logic, do you think a tighter stringbed, hence stiffer, would allows you to produce more topspin?

 

[BreakPoint]

Why many brands of poly' claim that there string can generate much of spin, such as Alu rough. And how i know which brand is uncoat?

I think strings with rough coatings have more friction on the surface which does two things:

1. Helps to lock the strings in place thereby minimizing string movement.

2. Helps to "grab" the ball more with their rough surface due to the greater friction.

This is the theory behind these rough string anyway.

 

[BreakPoint]

Also, by this logic, do you think a tighter stringbed, hence stiffer, would allows you to produce more topspin?

I think it depends on how you hit the ball. Bjorn Borg used to string his 65 sq. in. wood racquets at over 80lbs because he wanted basically a solid board as a stringbed. This unyielding stringbed helped him to produce tremendous topspin and probably more topspin than anyone of his era. He hit the ball using an almost vertical stroke by brushing up on the back of the ball.

However, a loose stringbed should give you more pocketing of the ball and can give you spin depending on how you hit the ball. In this case, you're almost like catching the ball with your stringbed and then throwing it back with spin. I think Federer is a good example of this.

 

[takl23]

I find more spin with my Gamma Stinger string than the Wilson SuperSpin nylon I used to string with. I can hit harder and the ball literally dives for the baseline. The guys I play will sometimes let the ball go thinking it's going out, but will catch the line or land just inside the line. I think technique plays into the 'spin factor' as well.

Cheers,

Tim

 

[BreakPoint]

BP I see what you are saying but most Poly for me feels slippery and does not produce spin as much as non slippery strings the likes of Gosen JC or Xone biphase.

Interesting, but like I said above, I think the LESS slippery the string, the more spin it produces.

 

[Landshark]

BreakPoint, I have looked at my crosses and have seen evidence that the main strings were rubbing back and forth on the crosses, even though my strings(full poly) were perfectly straight. Have you seen this on your strings?

Calvin

 

[BreakPoint]

BreakPoint, I have looked at my crosses and have seen evidence that the main strings were rubbing back and forth on the crosses, even though my strings(full poly) were perfectly straight. Have you seen this on your strings?

Calvin

Yes. As I mentioned above, I have two racquets with full poly stringjobs right now. One slides (back and forth) and the other doesn't. But both look perfectly straight. However, I get much more spin from the one that doesn't slide.

 

[ClayisFun]

I agree with BP. The benefits of poly are only exhibited if you can swing FAST. Poly has far less power than other strings so it allows you to generate a huge spin to speed ratio. The strings don't give; so more of the force of the swing is transfered to the ball, thus creating more spin. That way you can swing harder and get more spin to get the ball to drop in.

 

[Shashwat]

I think it depends on how you hit the ball. Bjorn Borg used to string his 65 sq. in. wood racquets at over 80lbs because he wanted basically a solid board as a stringbed. This unyielding stringbed helped him to produce tremendous topspin and probably more topspin than anyone of his era. He hit the ball using an almost vertical stroke by brushing up on the back of the ball.

However, a loose stringbed should give you more pocketing of the ball and can give you spin depending on how you hit the ball. In this case, you're almost like catching the ball with your stringbed and then throwing it back with spin. I think Federer is a good example of this.

So if this is true, if you string it low and have a good technique, you get excellent control and spin?

But i thought stringing lower gives less control. I string at 55 with full poly setup always. What do you suggest for good control, sufficient power, and good access to spin? (what tension)

 

[theace21]

Many players I string for like SnyGuts just before they break, as they feel that is when they have the most control. Interestingly this group doesn't use poly after a tryout due to the popular buzz as they don't like the feel. Note, I'm talking about the over 35 crowd.

Good point. Don't know why - but I like the synthetic gut just before it breaks also. I am in the over 35 crowd by more than a few years...

 

[MTXR]

for me poly gives me more spin

 

[BreakPoint]

So if this is true, if you string it low and have a good technique, you get excellent control and spin?

But i thought stringing lower gives less control. I string at 55 with full poly setup always. What do you suggest for good control, sufficient power, and good access to spin? (what tension)

That really depends on lots of different factors, including that each poly seems to play differently and there are hundreds of polys out there.

But most importantly, it depends on your technique, how you hit the ball, how much power you can generate on your own, the racquet that you use, etc. Some people get more spin from stringing tighter while others get more spin by stringing looser so you can't just make a blanket statement that, for example, 55 lbs is a good tension. Borg strung his 65 sq. in racquets at over 80 lbs. while Federer strings his 90 sq. in. racquets at under 50 lbs but both can generate plenty of spin. And depending on how you hit the ball, more spin = more control.

 

[Shashwat]

That really depends on lots of different factors, including that each poly seems to play differently and there are hundreds of polys out there.

But most importantly, it depends on your technique, how you hit the ball, how much power you can generate on your own, the racquet that you use, etc. Some people get more spin from stringing tighter while others get more spin by stringing looser so you can't just make a blanket statement that, for example, 55 lbs is a good tension. Borg strung his 65 sq. in racquets at over 80 lbs. while Federer strings his 90 sq. in. racquets at under 50 lbs but both can generate plenty of spin. And depending on how you hit the ball, more spin = more control.

Well i can generate my own pace. I have a semi-western forehand and almost every shot is hit with a lot of topspin (except winners). I use a K95 16*18, and my favorite string so far is the Kirschbaum Supersmash 17g, although Babolat PHT 16g feels better for about 1-2 weeks from when its strung.

I really need to take a video of my strokes and serves.

 

[ubel]

Next thing you're going to try and tell me is that the reason I sometimes hit abnormally high kicking kick serves is because I'm making contact at the top of my string bed where the mains are naturally tighter, thus producing more spin.. pfffffft

...

omg :shock:

 

[Ripper]

for me poly gives me more spin

That's what the OP is saying.

 

[tbini87]

i can see where bo is coming from. i feel like i get a lot more spin with stiff strings. i get less spin even with a soft poly. don't know if the stiffness is the only cause to so much spin, but there definitely is a correlation.

 

[Ripper]

1234567890

 

[Ripper]

There's a tip I use to get, even, more spin out of my full Cyber Power stringjobs, which I've been meaning to share with you and I'd like to avail myself of this thread to do just that. Got it from that French dude that play's with Red Code strings (forgot his name). Between points, I take sweat from my forehead with the palm of my left hand (I'm right handed) and rub it on the stringbed. Yes, very probably, this is only in my head, but try it and let me know if you feel anything different.

 

[BreakPoint]

Next thing you're going to try and tell me is that the reason I sometimes hit abnormally high kicking kick serves is because I'm making contact at the top of my string bed where the mains are naturally tighter, thus producing more spin.. pfffffft

That may have an effect but the main reason you get more kick when you hit the top of your stringbed on serves is because the further away (length of your arm plus the length of your racquet) is from the fulcrum (your shoulder) of your swing, the greater the angular momentum and angular velocity you can generate. That's because you swing your arm/racquet in an arc on the serve and the angular velocity is greatest at the furthest point away from the fulcrum, meaning the top of your racquet that forms the arc. And since the faster you swing your racquet, the more spin you generate on the kick serve, and the top of your stringbed has more racquet head speed than the bottom of your stringbed, hitting the ball higher on your stringbed will thus give you more kick.

That's also why Sampras has an incredible kick serve because he has very long arms, thereby, increasing the length of his "lever" (i.e., radius of his arc during his service motion) which increases the angular velocity at the point on his stringbed that he makes contact with the ball. So it's not just your height, but the length of your arms that can give you a better kick serve. Of course, a longer racquet can help too provided it doesn't slow down your swing due to the higher swingweight.

 

[artworks]

I agree with BP. The benefits of poly are only exhibited if you can swing FAST. Poly has far less power than other strings so it allows you to generate a huge spin to speed ratio. The strings don't give; so more of the force of the swing is transfered to the ball, thus creating more spin. That way you can swing harder and get more spin to get the ball to drop in.

Nailed.

 

[artworks]

There's a tip I use to get, even, more spin out of my full Cyber Power stringjobs, which I've been meaning to share with you and I'd like to avail myself of this thread to do just that. Got it from that French dude that play's with Red Code strings (forgot his name). Between points, I take sweat from my forehead with the palm of my left hand (I'm right handed) and rub it on the stringbed. Yes, very probably, this is only in my head, but try it and let me know if you feel anything different.

I use to rub the sweat of my palm on the Pro Line II string bed of my Fischer Pro#1 and did not realize until this post that it has an effect.

 

[Ripper]

I use to rub the sweat of my palm on the Pro Line II string bed of my Fischer Pro#1 and did not realize until this post that it has an effect.

I think it does have an effect, because it reduces the friction between the strings... Sorry Breakpoint, but, as you know, finding answers in life just isn't simple

 

[Nuke]

I'm in the camp that believes that poly produces spin because its slipperiness lets it move and snap back quickly, rather than a stiff stringbed that doesn't move.

Take the case of spaghetti stringing. These wacky string jobs produced insane spin specifically because they allowed the mains to bend and snap back freely. Spaghetti-strung racquets usually had much fewer cross strings, often tubed so the mains could slide over them easily. If a stiff, unmoving stringbed were the key to spin, then this never would have worked.

 

[haerdalis]

It is an interesting topic. My feeling is towards the snapping back camp. I have strung my racquet withough weaving the crosses and it helped me produce enormous spin on the shots. Strings broke very quickly but lasted enough for the effect to be seen. This is of course illegal and I guess the reason for that is that it does produce more spin if the strings are allowed to move more.
Another thing to consider is why do open string patterns produce more spin? If infact string movement reduces spin than more dense patterns should yield more spin. Woofers and o ports should also reduce spin then.

 

[Doc Hollidae]

Polys do stretch. Not as much as a syn gut, but they do stills stretch.

Through personal experience I feel like a stiff string bed allows for my spin, but my friend who strings 10 lbs looser than me feels otherwise. With Kevlar my topspin is a lot more loopy than with Poly. The stiff stringbed feels like it bites the ball much better than when strung looser. I did noticed that the stiffer polys (Cyberflash) provided better spin than the softer ones (Big Ace).

In regards to the slickness of strings, uncoated or rough surface strings like kevlar spin the ball much better than poly. I've played with Cyberflash, Polyon, Luxilon, and Big Ace and while they provided better spin than syn gut, the slickness of the string just doesn't bite the ball like Kevlar or something like Blue Gear.

 

[haerdalis]

I think that what we are dealing with here are 2 different issues. I think that at higher swingspeeds the roughness of the strings dont matter anymore, the most important factor there is the snap, the poly effect. At lower swingspeed (and ballspeed) the roughness plays a bigger part. Playing just in the service boxes I do feel I have better spin with kevlar but playing from the back polys give me more spin.
So my theory would be that when I strung the racquet without weaving the crosses I got the poly effect at lower swingspeeds too and also a much greater effect.
Thats what I think.

 

[ClayisFun]

http://www.racquetsportsindustry.com/articles/2005/01/does_higher_string_tension_giv.html

read the article guys. If polys really bend that much than the point about ball travel across the stringbed comes into play. So, if you want to whip up the ball with a wide beam racquet you need as short a contact time as possible. Poly allows a stiff stringbed. Thus, the contact time for the ball would be lower than with a softer string. So, you reduce the chance of hitting the ball with the bottom edge of the frame in your topspin stroke, thereby increasing consistency.

 

[jackson vile]

I think that what we are dealing with here are 2 different issues. I think that at higher swingspeeds the roughness of the strings dont matter anymore, the most important factor there is the snap, the poly effect. At lower swingspeed (and ballspeed) the roughness plays a bigger part. Playing just in the service boxes I do feel I have better spin with kevlar but playing from the back polys give me more spin.
So my theory would be that when I strung the racquet without weaving the crosses I got the poly effect at lower swingspeeds too and also a much greater effect.
Thats what I think.

Your are 100% right, a lot of it will depend on playing style, swing speed, racket, and tension.

The harder/faster you hit generaly the stiffer/ more resilient the string needs to be in order increase the ability of spin.

If you pick a string that is too soft it will over stretch and lose it's energy not returning it back into the ball.

The mains are what catch and stretch to give the ball spin at greater and great head speeds.


The crosses simply add or subtract forward movement ejecting the ball from the string bed.

So the more the crosses stretch the more power you will end up with, one of the reasons open string patterns end up with more power.

That is why you see people putting in gut mains and poly crosses.

However the new age of polys are here that are softer and more powerful than ever. So people that enjoyed synthetics but felt they lost control and playability to soon are finding that they new co-polys are a perfect match.

Not to mention the new guts ie armour pro pacific's.


The more you hit through the ball and pull into the shot, the more strings like this help. However the more you block and or stop and hit the shot the more likely you enjoy super soft strings at high tensions and that poly will give you tennis elbow.