Can a server call their own let?

[TahoeTennis]

I've seen this happen in doubles, to a nefarious end. A server hits a serve which is returned for a winner, but the server calls a let to serve again, when no one else hears it. Does that make sense and is it technically legal if a returner strikes the ball before let is called? (assuming the "let" serve is in of course)

 

[esgee48]

Interesting question. Players can only call a let when something interferes with play on their court. In doubles, does that means the receiving team/side on a let serve? Or is the entire court the venue? If only the Server hears a let, there's an issue of his partner who is closer to the net not hearing a let occurring? And your partner did not hear a let either? That to me is rather fishy. I may let the server call a phantom let service once in doubles. But it really is the call of his partner and that is what I would state emphatically.

If you thought this was gamesmanship, you should disallow the let call since only the server heard it. His partner, who should have heard and called it, did not say 'Let!' so no let call. TBH, I played matches where one player said 'let' and the other 3 players said 'what let?' on serve.

 

[Startzel]

Interesting question. Players can only call a let when something interferes with play on their court. In doubles, does that means the receiving team/side on a let serve? Or is the entire court the venue? If only the Server hears a let, there's an issue of his partner who is closer to the net not hearing a let occurring? And your partner did not hear a let either? That to me is rather fishy. I may let the server call a phantom let service once in doubles. But it really is the call of his partner and that is what I would state emphatically.

If you thought this was gamesmanship, you should disallow the let call since only the server heard it. His partner, who should have heard and called it, did not say 'Let!' so no let call. TBH, I played matches where one player said 'let' and the other 3 players said 'what let?' on serve.

You can't tell someone their serve didn't hit the net if they claim they saw or heard it.

 

[TahoeTennis]

You can't tell someone their serve didn't hit the net if they claim they saw or heard it.

Yes, but what if they call the let AFTER the returner has struck the ball and put it into play, or hit a return winner?

 

[esgee48]

I agree, but the call should come from his partner. If your service partner did not hear a let and call it; and he is closer to the net than you are, how can you say there was a let? I would let this go once, but the call should come from the person closer to the net and that's what I would ask for.

 

[NTRPolice]

Any player may call a let on a serve if they hear it. This includes the server.

This is why I wish it were standard to play lets like they do in college and WTT. You play "lets" during a point, why not a serve? WTT has the best system where a net player can play the ball on if it hits the tape on a serve.

 

[OrangePower]

Yes, anyone can call a let. So server can call a let even if his partner did not. Some people have better hearing than others. The call should be made "in reasonable time" which on a fast serve and fast return, could be after the return has been made. The key is that there should not be a long hesitation between the let and the call.
Yes, it can be abused. This is why for college tennis there is no let (the serve is played as is). Actually it was mostly calls being made the other way around - server serves an ace, and then returner claims it was a let. But the principle is the same.
Anyway, in USTA play, you just have to deal with it.
EDIT: Just saw NTRPolice post... that's exactly right.

 

[movdqa]

I've done this many times, mainly because I sometimes have far better hearing than the older folks that I'm playing with. I almost always serve and volley and if I hear a let, then I just turn around and walk back to the service line so it's pretty obvious.

 

[tennis tom]

I've found most military veterans have hearing issues, probably do to all the gunfire they've experienced--I give them a pass if they miss the lets, because I probably wouldn't be playing tennis if it weren't for their service.

 

[heninfan99]

Any player on the court may call a service let, server (serving team) or receiver (receiving team).

“The call shall be made before the return of serve goes out of play or is hit by the server or server’s partner. If the serve is an apparent or near ace, it should be called promptly.” Friend At Court – The Code – The players’ Guide to Unofficiated Matches

 

[NTRPolice]

Didnt have time to respond to these yesterday...

Yes, but what if they call the let AFTER the returner has struck the ball and put it into play, or hit a return winner?

This is a grey area. The faster serves come, the faster returns are struck. In a case of a 60 mph serve, one can easily make a call before the ball is struck. In the case of a 160 mph serve, it's not so easy. You have to make a judgement as to whether or not your opponent is trying to take advantage of a late call, or is just returning out of reflex. I hit returns before I make calls all the time. Never had any problems since most people are reasonable.

I agree, but the call should come from his partner. If your service partner did not hear a let and call it; and he is closer to the net than you are, how can you say there was a let? I would let this go once, but the call should come from the person closer to the net and that's what I would ask for.

Yes and no. Just like with line calls, one player is usually in a better position to make a call than the other. In theory, the player in the better position should make the call. In practice, according to the rules, even a player who is 1 inch from the net can make a baseline call even if their partner is at the baseline. The rules make no distinction between the two, unlike a court of law.

 

[movdqa]

In the case of a 160 mph serve, it's not so easy.

I've never run into that problem.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I've never run into that problem.

That's because one doesn't run into a 160mph serve...it runs into you!

 

[Big_Dangerous]

I've never run into that problem.

Pretty sure at the rec level, we seldom even see 100-105 mph serves.

 

[NTRPolice]

Pretty sure at the rec level, we seldom even see 100-105 mph serves.

Depends what level you are. Lots of people serve in the 100-120 range. Not many "rec" players will serve over 125 though.

It's best to measure, but during a match you can use "sound" to estimate if you are not actually receiving the serve.

< 80 mph sound very "brushy"
85-120 sound very "squishy"
125+ have a distinct "pop"

I know all the experts here will tell me what im wrong, but if you actually play against people who serve over 85 mph you will know exactly what I mean. These sound estimates are for outdoor courts, in person only. These estimates are not for indoor courts or recorded audio.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Depends what level you are. Lots of people serve in the 100-120 range. Not many "rec" players will serve over 125 though.

It's best to measure, but during a match you can use "sound" to estimate if you are not actually receiving the serve.

< 80 mph sound very "brushy"
85-120 sound very "squishy"
125+ have a distinct "pop"

I know all the experts here will tell me what im wrong, but if you actually play against people who serve over 85 mph you will know exactly what I mean. These sound estimates are for outdoor courts, in person only. These estimates are not for indoor courts or recorded audio.

I've never played against a 125+mph serve. I think the fastest was around 105; plenty fast for me.

 

[stapletonj]

You forgot the Yakoff Smirnoff setup line "In Soviet Russia... 160 mph serve plays YOU"

good catch tho'

fyi - one of the things I note is the body language of the server, if he is "pulling up" even before the return is past him, he might well have really heard a let.
IF he keeps playing the point and lunges after the return, even if futilely, (if that really is a word), then he should concede the point because his body language shows he was still playing the ball.

 

[NTRPolice]

I've never played against a 125+mph serve. I think the fastest was around 105; plenty fast for me.

I'm much more scared of a serve that's going 105 and spinning all over the place vs. one that is 125+ and flat. Flat serves you can just stick your racket out where you think the ball is and it's an easy return. The crazy serves to return are the ones that are spinning up into your face/body, or so far away from you that you might actually whiff.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I'm much more scared of a serve that's going 105 and spinning all over the place vs. one that is 125+ and flat. Flat serves you can just stick your racket out where you think the ball is and it's an easy return. The crazy serves to return are the ones that are spinning up into your face/body, or so far away from you that you might actually whiff.

Agreed. Spin [and placement] trumps power, IMO. Of course, I'm biased because that's how I [try to] serve.

 

[MathGeek]

Depends what level you are. Lots of people serve in the 100-120 range. Not many "rec" players will serve over 125 though.

It's best to measure, but during a match you can use "sound" to estimate if you are not actually receiving the serve.

< 80 mph sound very "brushy"
85-120 sound very "squishy"
125+ have a distinct "pop"

I know all the experts here will tell me what im wrong, but if you actually play against people who serve over 85 mph you will know exactly what I mean. These sound estimates are for outdoor courts, in person only. These estimates are not for indoor courts or recorded audio.

There's a video analysis program called Tracker that can accurately determine serve speeds if you have good video from a side perspective (as close to the midline defined by the net as possible).