It's lot simpler imo. It's a simple failure to recognize when to push vs pull the trigger. We all know how to draw a line on the sand, the key is when which seperates winners from losers.
Can bad tennis players win against good tennis players?
- Thread starter AnyPUG
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It's lot simpler imo. It's a simple failure to recognize when to push vs pull the trigger. We all know how to draw a line on the sand, the key is when which seperates winners from losers.
That does not make any sense and frankly silly.
If anyone is interested in improving their stroke skills, video is an indispensable friend to figure out what needs to be corrected. Almost impossible for naked eye to identify corrective measures.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Agreed that it's indispensable. However, plenty of players don't want to see themselves. My response is always "Why? Everyone else can see what your game looks like. Why should you be the only one who doesn't see?".
That logic rarely wins.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
IMO, the pusher rarely pulls the trigger. He wins predominantly because the opponent is always pulling the trigger and not doing it very well.
Also, as I wrote, some people refuse to recognize the value of pushing so they avoid it even though their game might benefit.
Probably half-full half-empty glass here? I observe a whole lot of players always checking video feedback and if you look at most tennis lessons these days, the coach is running around with coach's eye or some such video app.
I was talking about the non pusher. By choice or nature, he is aggressive and fails to identity pushing situation. I don't think it's by refusing consciously, but failing to recognize by judgemental mistake.
A lot of it comes down to intuition in the "heat of the battle".
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
None of the 4 coaches I know use video; 3 of them are 50+ but the 4th is maybe in his 30s so that surprised me.
I would agree that a lot more players are videoing so they can upload to social media.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
I still think you're describing something related but not identical.
To me, your description is someone who isn't good at the "green, yellow, red" determination: he has a tendency to confuse red with yellow and yellow with green.
I'm talking about someone who perceives pushers as a different class of player [or perhaps even someone who isn't playing "real" tennis] and not worthy of consideration.
A lot of match players I know constantly use and upload to swing vision for a variety of reasons - stroke analyses, match stats (what shot lost them points etc) and shot stats etc. Camera shy folks are very rare and they have probably given up on real improvements, doesn't matter.
These are "high level" rec players - i bet they know what they are doing and ready to accept a certain amount of risk.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
I know some [including me on occasion]. But most don't. Then again, I'm 56 so the average age of my cohort might be a lot higher than yours which could account for the difference in habit.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
I don't know if there's necessarily a correlation between camera shyness and desire to improve. The former could be due to personality, culture, or even sheer logistics.
And they aren't rare at all in my circles or those I'm familiar with. We likely move in very different circles.
Fintft
G.O.A.T.
Keep on rambling about pusher skills.
Taking videos for stroke analysis and match videos are two different things. As I said post a match of a so called pusher beating a so called skilled player. There have been a zillion posts stating how someone got beat by a pusher. However there have been only a couple of videos where someone who claimed they were more skilled dared put the video out there.
When they did it was obvious to anyone watching that the pusher was not just a pusher with little ability than keeping the ball in. The so called skilled player was nowhere as skilled as he thought of himself.
Video of games is always humbling and revealing.
Keep on rambling about how you have great stroke skils but get beaten by so called pushers because you are a big guy and that inhibts sudden change of direction.
Fintft
G.O.A.T.
Oh STFU you are putting words into my mouth you idiot! I said I keep the points short by choice, that's all. You in turn, posted a 1000 times how pushers are more skilled lol.
They are not and especially not long term, past 3.5-4.0.
What makes you such a good player and know it all?
Ignored from now on.
Imo, the video feedback has become so common, there is no mystery. A lot of rec players are constantly recording and it's almost a vlog these days.
It's clear we are in two different worlds when it comes to the nitty gritty and not much common ground. I'll leave it at that.
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The person who puts words in others mouths getting angry when getting a taste of their own medicine. Get outta here with that nonsense.
I said anyone who claims they have better skills but keeps losing to a so called pusher are deluding themselves that they are the more skilled player. In that scenario the so called pusher has more skills.
If you had proper reading comprehension skills you would understand the difference between that and saying a pusher has great skills.
puppybutts
Hall of Fame
that sounds like such a roundabout way to say a skilled player should be able to hit different strokes as needed. unnecessary nonsense about what is skilled or not. if "lower skilled" shots are able to win you the match, why bother with the distinction of high or low skill? it is just variety and adaptiveness at that point.
FuzzyYellowBalls
Legend
This video has a special power, to create conversations that aren't very related to the video, it's magic!
The OP thread and the coach’s video starts with a clickbait title. So what do you expect?
The video also has special skills to make excuses for the coach and ask folks to ignore the coach’s own words which are silly to begin with. Good players don’t lose to bad players. Plus he talks about pushers as bad at some point in the video but then later talks about old school players using a pushing style which folks can emulate.
The core message that he is advocating is really a smooth flowing. stroke. That message is spot on. I wish he had stayed away from his whole definition of skilled players, bad players, or pushers because most of it is wrong, at least to me and many others.
Players who are developing certain skills that might have a higher ceiling lose to players whose skill set though consistent, have a defined ceiling. However, breaking the defined ceiling if talking about rec adults is not a given. To really push (no pun) past that ceiling of someone who is called a pusher requires a lot of reps and sweat equity in matches. Do most rec adults have that in them? The so called pushers are skilled too even if their ceiling seems low. Very few, if any, of the so called pushers at the 4.0 level are just tapping the ball back in. Most have much more control and depth than folks who lose to them want to give them credit for. Yes you can leave them behind once your game matures but there is no magic bullet. You have to do what kids who leave those adults behind at some point do. Fitness, practice, and sweat equity in matches. Lots of it.
It's similar to saying a hospital needs doctors and nurses to be efficient. Sure, some procedures could be handled by nurses and don't need a doctor. A lot of simple matters could be handled by a nurse more efficiently by them because they cost less.
I know some people in the forum say both are the same. But does one have higher skills than the other?
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
This is very true. The ‘when’ changes depending on how well you are playing that day.
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
I still haven’t watched it.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Me neither.
Fintft
G.O.A.T.
It's not bad but advises players who try develop their skills (thinking long plan instead of pushing) to have all their shots, to have options, not only power. For example he advocates for slices like Federer and "tapping over the net".
What can you say? that's the way cookie crumbles. Some folks look cool even when they put the cart before the horse.
Daniel Andrade
Hall of Fame
So what was the conclusion?
Fintft
G.O.A.T.
Yesterday I netted all of them until I got to 0-5 being a nervous wreck and only started to hit winners afterwards, relaxing.
Those short balls didn't all sit up though.
Today the coach tried to correct me by doing the take back with arms at ball's level and hitting through the ball.
Fintft
G.O.A.T.
Post #326, it's good to have options.
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