Cheating

[film1]

Watched some good jr tennis this weekend.
The Good:
The players and the tennis are better than 30 years ago.

The Bad:
I was very surprised by how a couple of players cheated non stop. Right in front of their parents/coachs.
Kids calling balls 4-6 inchs in out on a regular basis, cheating seems to be condoned and that is a shame.

 

[tennisdad65]

what age group was most of the cheating in?

 

[film1]

16,17 range
It only takes one bad apple.
These kids are good players and work too hard to get good enough to play at that level only to get cheated numerous times.
Eventually someone will get tired of being hooked and ask for a line judge but the kids coaches/parents have eyes and know what their kids are doing.

 

[flat]

I found in our section age 10-12 boys were the worst phase. I've been pleasantly surprised at the 14-16 level, seems like most players are pretty fair about the calls.

My guess is those that were consistently making bad calls got so much peer pressure and got so isolated, that they had to grow out of it to continue to enjoy playing in tournaments.

Then again, I might simply have gotten lucky the last 6 months..

 

[polski]

I don't think the sportsmanship issues are confined to an age group. I think iit has to do with a player's maturity level, which is often a direct reflection on their parents and coaches. A kid that values winning so much that they are willing to sacrifice their ethics (& family's reputation) to advance one more round are not mature people. The players that call it fair and are willing to take a loss to a evenly matched player will have far more success in the long run.

 

[cmb]

I don't think the sportsmanship issues are confined to an age group. I think iit has to do with a player's maturity level, which is often a direct reflection on their parents and coaches. A kid that values winning so much that they are willing to sacrifice their ethics (& family's reputation) to advance one more round are not mature people. The players that call it fair and are willing to take a loss to a evenly matched player will have far more success in the long run.

how about the flip side to this; perhaps the who values winning so much that he is willing to do this, has much more drive and hunger to acheive more that he could become a better player in the long run.

Many guys who are in the top 100 had bad reputations as cheats in the juniors. Brad Gilbert was one of the worse hooks in juniors and college, he made it to the top 10 with a nothing game.

 

[tennisdad65]

how about the flip side to this; perhaps the who values winning so much that he is willing to do this, has much more drive and hunger to acheive more that he could become a better player in the long run.

Many guys who are in the top 100 had bad reputations as cheats in the juniors. Brad Gilbert was one of the worse hooks in juniors and college, he made it to the top 10 with a nothing game.

good point.. though ultimately to get to the pro level talent shows.

My theory is that if you are a junior and want to get to the pro's, you should be crushing everyone in your age group (14s and 16s) . The 5-10 bad calls against you should be considered a nice motivational handicap. This is what I tell my son.

 

[polski]

^^^This would be good parenting

 

[polski]

how about the flip side to this; perhaps the who values winning so much that he is willing to do this, has much more drive and hunger to acheive more that he could become a better player in the long run.
QUOTE]

This would be bad parenting.

 

[BMC9670]

Speaking of parenting, do any of you overrule your child if they get an obvious call wrong? The first time I did this to my son, he got flustered and started calling EVERYTHING in - I mean balls that were 6 inches out. It was pretty funny, but confirmed to me he just missed the obvious call unintentionally.

 

[willshot]

lots of parents know their kid cheats. BUt dont say a darn thing cus deep down they want to win more than the kid! pathetic

 

[LeftyServe]

Speaking of parenting, do any of you overrule your child if they get an obvious call wrong? The first time I did this to my son, he got flustered and started calling EVERYTHING in - I mean balls that were 6 inches out. It was pretty funny, but confirmed to me he just missed the obvious call unintentionally.

In my opinion, no. The exception would be if the call were so flagrant that the only possible explanation is hooking. For most calls, a bystander has no better of a parallax view than does the kid, and consequently is in no better a position to call the ball than the kid. I believe that most kids are trying to make the right calls, and the missed ones generally even out. Just make sure your child knows that he or she must be certain before calling a ball out. If you trust that your child knows the rule and is trying to follow it, I wouldn't overrule, nor would I expect any opponent's parent to do so either.

 

[willshot]

yea. you also have to remember that there are other parents and players that accuse others of cheating as an excuse of losing a match. works both ways unfortunelty.

players who question every call is just as bad.

 

[andfor]

Speaking of parenting, do any of you overrule your child if they get an obvious call wrong? The first time I did this to my son, he got flustered and started calling EVERYTHING in - I mean balls that were 6 inches out. It was pretty funny, but confirmed to me he just missed the obvious call unintentionally.

I have over ruled my kid, called a line judge to the court on an opponents behalf and made face-to-face apologies required to those bad behavior may have touched. That was years ago in the 12's. This weekend I told an umpire to watch his court, he was taking too much time. I did not think he was trying to game his opponent, just trying not to rush. The ref first talked with him about it. I told him about it after the match. Then yesterday he got a warning for too much time and I was worried he'd get a point penalty. The match was close and it could have impacted the outcome. After the warning the time situation did not come into play again. Most kids matches take place without incident. When something odd happens I let my player know about it. If a punishment is in order, it happens. USUALLY is works.

In general, associating bad behavior and line calls with parenting is not always fair. Sure some parents are to blame but it not always evident as we don't know what happens behind closed doors. Some kids see the lines poorly and some don't respond as anticipated to the discipline they receive for on court actions. Some kids have an overwhelming desire to win that is something that comes from within. I'd like to think that kids who stick with the game, even the ones with questionable behavior are good by nature. With solid guidance they will at some point mature over time. I've witnessed it with many tennis juniors who are now exemplary adults and adult tennis players.

 

[BMC9670]

In my opinion, no. The exception would be if the call were so flagrant that the only possible explanation is hooking. For most calls, a bystander has no better of a parallax view than does the kid, and consequently is in no better a position to call the ball than the kid. I believe that most kids are trying to make the right calls, and the missed ones generally even out. Just make sure your child knows that he or she must be certain before calling a ball out. If you trust that your child knows the rule and is trying to follow it, I wouldn't overrule, nor would I expect any opponent's parent to do so either.

The one time I did, it was really obvious, and on clay making it more obvious. It was a natural reaction for me as a parent wanting to keep my kid honest, but in hindsight, I should have waited to see if there was a pattern as I don't think he would cheat.

 

[polski]

yea. you also have to remember that there are other parents and players that accuse others of cheating as an excuse of losing a match. works both ways unfortunelty.

players who question every call is just as bad.

Definately true. Many parents see the lines totally different on their child's side of the court than on the other player's side.

As a coach, this can be pretty embarrassing when these parents make "under their breath" comments about the kid's opponent.

 

[chalkflewup]

The kids have to learn how to deal with cheating, however; they shouldn't have to deal with parents that vocally insert themselves into every single point. I have a problem with that and the refs just turn their head.

Last week at a Level 3 I had to listen to a father pleading his son on every point for 2 hours nonstop. It ruined the fun of watching the match and I'm sure playing. I could feel the pressure he was placing on his kid. Some of his comments were definitely coaching/cheating...

Right here "Johnny" - c'mon.
That's OK. Just keep fighting.
C'mon right NOW.

 

[Fedace]

Maybe one day we will be able to put in the electronic linecalling system in all Private and Public courts so we will have the right call every time. ............
Or at least in courts where the tournaments are held, anyway.

 

[andfor]

Maybe one day we will be able to put in the electronic linecalling system in all Private and Public courts so we will have the right call every time. ............
Or at least in courts where the tournaments are held, anyway.

Nice idea. Not worth it though. Teaching fairness, integrity and how to think though and civilly handle adverse situations will go a lot further for kids later in life, on the court and more importantly off the court.

 

[ga tennis]

Speaking of parenting, do any of you overrule your child if they get an obvious call wrong? The first time I did this to my son, he got flustered and started calling EVERYTHING in - I mean balls that were 6 inches out. It was pretty funny, but confirmed to me he just missed the obvious call unintentionally.

My daughter has made a few bad calls in tournaments and if it is obvious i will tell her she made the wrong call and give the point to her opponent.I know u arent allowed to talk to them during matches but if she makes an obvious bad call i will overrule her.

 

[Parker512]

Its ussually because parents have too much high hopes for kids.

 

[Soianka]

I hate to see the small children (under age 12) play at the bigger tournaments. They are usually the worst in terms of bad sportsmanship, bratty behavior and cheating.