Compare Federer, Nadal, Djokovic's peak/prime periods

[TennisSprout]

You just cannot compare 2015 to this year. They are not on the same level competition wise and Djokovic had to work a lot harder to achieve what he did. The same post-prime Federer made two GS finals in that time frame and won two Slams this year. Murray was a non-factor this year and he is the same age as Djokovic, and actually won a Slam in that time frame. Djokovic beat a complete field in 2015 not a depleted one.

Well I really didn't want to go into 2006 versus 2015 again. To Djokovic fans, of course 2015 is better and to Federer fans, 2006 is better. Neutral fans or fans of other players will probably say Djokovic's was more impressive. At the end of the day, 6 Masters and 2 Masters finals is greater than 4 Masters and 2 Masters finals, and it means you played the top players more often. A 31-5 record against the top 10 is superior to a 19-4 record versus the top 10. Also, a 16-4 record against the top 5 is superior to a 8-4 record against the top 5. So statistically a 92-5 record with 12 titles may look better than a 82-6 record with 11 titles, but it's easy to omit the fact that 4 of those 12 titles were 250 and 500 level tournaments while only 1 title of Djokovic's 11 titles was a 500 level tournament and the rest were Slams, a WTF and Masters. So yes without a doubt, Djokovic's season should not only be thought of as superior to 2006 but to any season because he set records in that season as far as ATP points, top 10 wins, and total Masters wins. But everyone is free to believe whatever they want.

What on earth are you trying to defend? I never compared 2017 to 2015. As I said, 2015-2016 might seem to be a complete field. But where was the top competiton? Nadal was at his career low and Federer was past his prime and could only compete in BO3. Djokovic of course took advantage of it to finish a NCYGS.

My thread was discussing domination. Djokovic's achievement at 2015 was obviously more impressive than Federer's at 2006. But domination is another thing. No matter how many Slams and Masters Djokovic had in 2015, he did lose 6 matches against 4 players, 3 of which to a well post-prime Federer, while Federer in 2006 only lost 5 matches against 2 players, most to a peak clay GOAT.

 

[NoleFam]

Yeah Djokovic sure was working a lot harder than Federer was in AO/Miami this year...

Fact of the matter is that 2006 (or 2005) Federer wins CYGS in 2015 and probably loses <3 matches with no Nadal to stop him and a much kinder masters format, but I don't want to get into that either.

I thought it was about 2006? I don't think anyone wants to talk about this year as far as competition. The Australian Open was great but the rest was a snooze, and the last 3 GS were pretty forgettable as far as level of play or competition.

Fact of the matter is that you're being subjective and it's fine that you think that Federer could have achieved that in 2015, and who knows really, but at the end of the day 2015 > 2006 in the majority's opinion.

 

[metsman]

I thought it was about 2006? I don't think anyone wants to talk about this year as far as competition. The Australian Open was great but the rest was a snooze, and the last 3 GS were pretty forgettable as far as level of play or competition.

Fact of the matter is that you're being subjective and it's fine that you think that Federer could have achieved that in 2015, and who knows really, but at the end of the day 2015 > 2006 in the majority's opinion.

Competition sucked this year after Miami/Madrid but that doesn't change that Federer still won a slam where the competition was definitely not weak, probably the strongest road for any slam winner in quite some time, so he didn't take advantage of only weak competition, just like Djokovic in 2015, where he had a pretty solid Wimbledon win.

 

[NoleFam]

What on earth are you trying to defend? I never compared 2017 to 2015. As I said, 2015-2016 might seem to be a complete field. But where was the top competiton? Nadal was at his career low and Federer was past his prime and could only compete in BO3. Djokovic of course took advantage of it to finish a NCYGS.

My thread was discussing domination. Djokovic's achievement at 2015 was obviously more impressive than Federer's at 2006. But domination is another thing. No matter how many Slams and Masters Djokovic had in 2015, he did lose 6 matches against 4 players, 3 of which to a well post-prime Federer, while Federer in 2006 only lost 5 matches against 2 players, most to a peak clay GOAT.

You did compare 2017 to this year when you basically said Djokovic took advantage of a weak field with post-prime Federer like Federer and Nadal did this year. Well 36 year old post prime Federer won two Slams this year and was pretty competitive in 2015 (franky I think he played the same level this year that he did in the second half of 2015). It's easy for everyone to make reverse arguments where it suits them. The top competition in 2015 was when Djokovic played 36 matches against the top 10. That's more than anyone has in one season and it's pretty easy for everyone to sit back and create a false narrative that he did it because the field was weak. Djokovic played Federer 8 times in 2015, including 2 GS finals, 3 Masters finals, and the WTF final yet when Federer was losing he was so beyond his prime. Now that he is winning Slams this year, it's seen as a resurgence.

Your thread was about domination and I replied to someone with obvious reasoning who wanted to renew the 2006 versus 2015 argument once again, and then you responded to that. If people want to believe 2006 is a better season or more dominant for whatever reason then that's fine. However, Djokovic played in 13 out the 14 "Big" finals that year (he didn't play Madrid) and I'm inclined to always say that is more dominant.

 

[Noelan]

Competition sucked this year after Miami/Madrid but that doesn't change that Federer still won a slam where the competition was definitely not weak, probably the strongest road for any slam winner in quite some time, so he didn't take advantage of only weak competition, just like Djokovic in 2015, where he had a pretty solid Wimbledon win.

hehehe, you still didn't recover from 2 GS finals in 2015. We know it hurts. Keep crying

 

[TennisSprout]

You did compare 2017 to this year when you basically said Djokovic took advantage of a weak field with post-prime Federer like Federer and Nadal did this year. Well 36 year old post prime Federer won two Slams this year and was pretty competitive in 2015 (franky I think he played the same level this year that he did in the second half of 2015). It's easy for everyone to make reverse arguments where it suits them. The top competition in 2015 was when Djokovic played 36 matches against the top 10. That's more than anyone has in one season and it's pretty easy for everyone to sit back and create a false narrative that he did it because the field was weak. Djokovic played Federer 8 times in 2015, including 2 GS finals, 3 Masters finals, and the WTF final yet when Federer was losing he was so beyond his prime. Now that he is winning Slams this year, it's seen as a resurgence.

Your thread was about domination and I replied to someone with obvious reasoning who wanted to renew the 2006 versus 2015 argument once again, and then you responded to that. If people want to believe 2006 is a better season or more dominant for whatever reason then that's fine. However, Djokovic played in 13 out the 14 "Big" finals that year (he didn't play Madrid) and I'm inclined to always say that is more dominant.

People talk about Federer's resurgence mainly because he won AO convincingly when the competition was still OK with big 4 and Wawrinka present. As for 2017 general, it was obviously a weak field, even weaker than 2015 and 2016.

I certainly could see your point that Djokovic was more dominant by playing in 13 out the 14 "Big" finals in 2015. I found it less dominant mainly because he managed to lose to all of his main rivals-Federer, Wawrinka and Murray in 2015 despite winning 10 of 13 big finals.

 

[NatF]

Yea and it's ridiculous really. I have no doubt that Federer of 2015-2016 would have won at least one Slam this year in this field, and possibly Nadal as well. For someone to basically imply that Djokovic was just handed a season like 2015 is blinded fanboyism at its worst and lack of knowledge at its best.

Federer probably wins 3 slams in 15-16 without Djokovic. I would say 2015'erer definitely wins Wimbledon, quite possibly wins the USO as well. No doubt 2017 is weak, I think 2016 was pretty dire as well though.

 

[Deleted member 716271]

Federer probably wins 3 slams in 15-16 without Djokovic. I would say 2015'erer definitely wins Wimbledon, quite possibly wins the USO as well. No doubt 2017 is weak, I think 2016 was pretty dire as well though.

Wim 15, USO 15, and AO 16?

 

[Tiki-Taka]

no one talks about today's weak field because it's more than obvious to anyone including Fedal fans. Unlike 2015-2016 when almost everyone agreed, but one group argued against it like their lives depended on it.

Djokovic fans arguing against the 2015-16 field being weak was never the main cause of all the debates going on back then. It was the constant whining from Fedal's fans who even called tennis dead back then just because their guys for once in over a decade were so irrelevant. Today's field might be even worse, yet you don't see Novak fans complaining near as much about Fedal sweeping it. Maybe it's just that two certain groups are much bigger losers. Even in this season when Fed/Rafa won 2 Majors, the fans of each player are irritated by the other one winning 2 as well.

 

[metsman]

Djokovic fans arguing against the 2015-16 field being weak was never the main cause of all the debates going on back then. It was the constant whining from Fedal's fans who even called tennis dead back then just because their guys for once in over a decade were so irrelevant. Today's field might be even worse, yet you don't see Novak fans complaining near as much about Fedal sweeping it. Maybe it's just that two certain groups are much bigger losers. Even in this season when Fed/Rafa won 2 Majors, the fans of each player are irritated by the other one winning 2 as well.

that's cause there are fewer Novak fans. Most of them have called it weak.

 

[abmk]

hehehe, you still didn't recover from 2 GS finals in 2015. We know it hurts. Keep crying

look at your level of butthurt.
can't even read properly.

He said Djokovic had a pretty solid Wimbledon win in 2015 (you do realize Wimbledon was one of the 2 finals that fed lost ? )

get over yourself.

 

[axlrose]

I have a question for Federer fans.

Some of you say during 14-16 Federer couldn't beat Djoker at Slams due to the BO5 format, he's too old for that.

However, in all his losses to Djoker, he never reached 2 first. In other words, if the format was BO3, he would have lost just the same.

So why BO5 could be an excuse?

 

[NatF]

Wim 15, USO 15, and AO 16?

Yah, I'm pretty certain about all of them tbh.

 

[Noelan]

look at your level of butthurt.
can't even read properly.

He said Djokovic had a pretty solid Wimbledon win. (you do realize Wimbledon was one of the 2 finals that fed lost ? )

get over yourself.

The one who can't read his post/s is you. Agenda is very well known
Famous meltdowns from season 2015 speak for itself.Do you think that's forgotten?

 

[NoleFam]

Federer probably wins 3 slams in 15-16 without Djokovic. I would say 2015'erer definitely wins Wimbledon, quite possibly wins the USO as well. No doubt 2017 is weak, I think 2016 was pretty dire as well though.

I think Federer definitely wins 2 Slams in 2015 and one in 2016 without Djokovic. He wins the 2015 USO without losing a set. 2016 wasn't that great but mainly the second half with Federer out. I still think it was better than this year.

 

[abmk]

The one who can't read his post/s is you. Agenda is very well known
Famous meltdowns from season 2015 speak for itself.Do you think that's forgotten?

its just your own victim mentality, delusions and butthurt.

Read it again : He said Djokovic had a pretty solid Wimbledon win. (you do realize Wimbledon was one of the 2 finals that fed lost ? )

I don't even get what you mean by the bold part.

 

[metsman]

The one who can't read his post/s is you. Agenda is very well known
Famous meltdowns from season 2015 speak for itself.Do you think that's forgotten?

Not too great at the whole English thing are you?

 

[Noelan]

its just your own victim mentality, delusions and butthurt.

Read it again : He said Djokovic had a pretty solid Wimbledon win. (you do realize Wimbledon was one of the 2 finals that fed lost ? )

I don't even get what you mean by the bold part.

I do not know why you enter a discussion that you do not understand? I was addressing to metsman.
Many here are victims of inability to accept the loss without finding excuses and projecting their own wishful thinking on others. You won't see me constantly discrediting the opposition as way to cope with success of other players. That is excatly what poster did during period 2014-16, and still does . But somehow AO 17 and IW/MI 17 is different The double standards

Not too great at the whole English thing are you?

grammar argument is always there when posters lose tennis argument.I'll accept fair argument of yours .
I believe I'm not the only one who remember your meltdown after USO15 and clearly you still can't get over 2015.
and oh It's easier to attack when your'e in the pack, isn't it?

 

[abmk]

I do not know why you enter a discussion that you do not understand? I was addressing to metsman.
Many here are victims of inability to accept the loss without finding excuses and projecting their own wishful thinking on others. You won't see me constantly discrediting the opposition as way to cope with success of other players. That is excatly what poster did during period 2014-16, and still does . But somehow AO 17 and IW/MI 17 is different The double standards

He also said Djokovic's Wimbledon 15 was a solid win. or did that completely go over your head ?
he's also said repeatedly that Federer faced weak opposition in wimbledon 2017.

I completely understood the discussion.
you have blinders on, hence you didn't even get what metsman said.

Not so sure about you finding excuses for losses and all that, but half of your posts are whining about fed fans are so bad, blah , blah, blah...
even about posts which are perfectly fine.

I was here in 2015 , just as you were. metsman did not have any sort of meltdown.

its your own victim mentality and delusions.

 

[abmk]

I have a question for Federer fans.

Some of you say during 14-16 Federer couldn't beat Djoker at Slams due to the BO5 format, he's too old for that.

However, in all his losses to Djoker, he never reached 2 first. In other words, if the format was BO3, he would have lost just the same.

So why BO5 could be an excuse?

its not that straight-forward
Federer beat djokovic in Bo3 at dubai 14, shanghai 14, dubai 15, cincy 15, YEC 15 RR.

When it came to Bo5, federer had the additional pressure of knowing that Djokovic would outlast him if the match went on for long.
Djokovic was clearly more relaxed, knowing that he could outlast federer.

(this was especially telling in wim 15, USO 15 ...of course AO 16 djokovic completely outplayed him, so Bo3 or Bo5 doesn't even matter)

 

[Noelan]

oh yes, he did. I'm allergic at double standards.

 

[metsman]

I do not know why you enter a discussion that you do not understand? I was addressing to metsman.
Many here are victims of inability to accept the loss without finding excuses and projecting their own wishful thinking on others. You won't see me constantly discrediting the opposition as way to cope with success of other players. That is excatly what poster did during period 2014-16, and still does . But somehow AO 17 and IW/MI 17 is different The double standards

grammar argument is always there when posters lose tennis argument.I'll accept fair argument of yours .
I believe I'm not the only one who remember your meltdown after USO15 and clearly you still can't get over 2015.
and oh It's easier to attack when your'e in the pack, isn't it?

You massively misinterpreted my post, where I gave credit Djokovic for 2015 Wimbledon as a good win in a weak year, like Federer's AO. Do I have to spell it out, or do you think you can understand what I meant now. Should I recommend some good books for you to read so you can brush up on your reading skills to prevent this in the future?

 

[Noelan]

You can't fool me

 

[abmk]

oh yes, he did. I'm allergic at double standards.

more like you are allergic to reading and understanding correctly -- because of your victim mentality.
see post #72 from metsman.

 

[abmk]

You can't fool me

of course not. He isn't. You are fooling yourself.

 

[NatF]

I think Federer definitely wins 2 Slams in 2015 and one in 2016 without Djokovic. He wins the 2015 USO without losing a set. 2016 wasn't that great but mainly the second half with Federer out. I still think it was better than this year.

Back half of last year was worse IMO. Beginning might have been a little better but neither were great. Clay season was more competitive not sure the early HC's were though.

 

[Noelan]

sure, fanboys think alike

 

[abmk]

sure, fanboys think alike

delusional hater Noelan will remain delusional hater.

 

[Noelan]

Exposing fanboys bias, that's what haters do

 

[abmk]

Exposing fanboys bias, that's what haters do

interpreting completely wrongly and posting delusionally is what you do.

 

[Deleted member 716271]

Yah, I'm pretty certain about all of them tbh.

AO 16 final vs Murray is the only question mark. Lol who am I kidding? Yup 3 slams there he would have won without Novak.

 

[KINGROGER]

You just cannot compare 2015 to this year. They are not on the same level competition wise and Djokovic had to work a lot harder to achieve what he did. The same post-prime Federer made two GS finals in that time frame and won two Slams this year. Murray was a non-factor this year and he is the same age as Djokovic, and actually won a Slam in that time frame. Djokovic beat a complete field in 2015 not a depleted one.

Well I really didn't want to go into 2006 versus 2015 again. To Djokovic fans, of course 2015 is better and to Federer fans, 2006 is better. Neutral fans or fans of other players will probably say Djokovic's was more impressive. At the end of the day, 6 Masters and 2 Masters finals is greater than 4 Masters and 2 Masters finals, and it means you played the top players more often. A 31-5 record against the top 10 is superior to a 19-4 record versus the top 10. Also, a 16-4 record against the top 5 is superior to a 8-4 record against the top 5. So statistically a 92-5 record with 12 titles may look better than a 82-6 record with 11 titles, but it's easy to omit the fact that 4 of those 12 titles were 250 and 500 level tournaments while only 1 title of Djokovic's 11 titles was a 500 level tournament and the rest were Slams, a WTF and Masters. So yes without a doubt, Djokovic's season should not only be thought of as superior to 2006 but to any season because he set records in that season as far as ATP points, top 10 wins, and total Masters wins. But everyone is free to believe whatever they want.

Masters wins aren’t always necessarily stronger than 250/500 titles.

For example Djokovic’s 2015 MC was weak as anything but some 250/500 could be stronger.

Subjectively I think that Federer of 2006 in 2015’s field would win CYGS and lose 2-3 matches at most.

 

[Deleted member 716271]

Masters wins aren’t always necessarily stronger than 250/500 titles.

For example Djokovic’s 2015 MC was weak as anything but some 250/500 could be stronger.

Subjectively I think that Federer of 2006 in 2015’s field would win CYGS and lose 2-3 matches at most.

Im not saying he wouldnt have a good chance but I think the effort required to win RG physically just in terms of athletic expenditure could take a lot out of anyone for the rest of the season even forgetting mental pressure.

 

[Devin]

Im not saying he wouldnt have a good chance but I think the effort required to win RG physically just in terms of athletic expenditure could take a lot out of anyone for the rest of the season even forgetting mental pressure.

Do you think 2006 Federer wins the 2015 AO without Djokovic? He still had the ankle brace on at the time...

I think 2004-2005, 2007, or 2009 Federer would be able to win the 2015 AO with Djokovic's draw though.

 

[metsman]

Do you think 2006 Federer wins the 2015 AO without Djokovic? He still had the ankle brace on at the time...

I think 2004-2005, 2007, or 2009 Federer would be able to win the 2015 AO with Djokovic's draw though.

Who would be beating Federer? Federer was inconsistent that tournament but his top level was still enough to eviscerate anyone in the 2015 field besides Djokovic.

Most versions of Federer would be able to win the 2015 AO without Djokovic. Stan and Murray spraying UFE half the time isn't nearly enough to take out even grandfather Federer considering how much Federer owns those guys matchup wise in majors and has continued to do despite being 80 years old. 2004-2007 and 09/10 Federer win without breaking too much of a sweat, like I said 06 Federer may f up a few sets but the outcome will be NID. 08, 11-12, 17 Federer should win as well. 14 and 16 should have good chances.

 

[Deleted member 716271]

Do you think 2006 Federer wins the 2015 AO without Djokovic? He still had the ankle brace on at the time...

I think 2004-2005, 2007, or 2009 Federer would be able to win the 2015 AO with Djokovic's draw though.

um probably. He matches up well vs. Stan and Murray. Murray matched up well overall earlier in his career funnily enough, but never in slams.