Comparisons between the BB DC London and Prince Tour Team

[edman9898]

Demoed the London and got to hit the Tour Team for about 5 minutes but only groundstrokes. Looking for comparisons on serving and any other relevant info between these two sticks. I seemed to like the Tour Team better for groundies. Thanks!

I have now tested the two frames so here is my comparison:

Groundstrokes: Have to give the nod to the EXO here, but just slightly. I seemed to be able to control my depth a little better surprisingly with the EXO, but it could have been the strings in the London. Both had good directional control. Both were extremely solid and stable considering the light weight.

Volleys: The London wins in this department. The EXO imparts too much spin and not enough oomph on putaway volleys. Also, volleys could float on you with the EXO. Both had pretty good touch though.

Serves: Hands down the EXO. I was hitting corners like crazy, and my second serve was much more effective. On first serves, my partner said they were really jumping at him with the EXO. That said, the London was not a bad serving stick by any means.

Slices: I seemed to control the direction better with the EXO, but the London stayed lower and skidded more. However, I seemed to get my slices deeper with the EXO.

Feel: Both sticks had very good feel, and to tell you the truth the actual feel seemed very similar even though the London has a Volkl feel to it. I think my drop shots may have been a little better with the London.

Overall I chose the Prince, but if I can not adjust my volleys with string and tension I could easily get a London and be fine. Anyone looking to try a stick in the 11 oz strung range should definitely try both as both are great sticks.

 

[TennisMaverick]

Demoed the London and got to hit the Tour Team for about 5 minutes but only groundstrokes. Looking for comparisons on serving and any other relevant info between these two sticks. I seemed to like the Tour Team better for groundies. Thanks!

They are designed for two different types of players. There is no comparison to be made.

 

[edman9898]

They are designed for two different types of players. There is no comparison to be made.

How so? Their specs are very similar and the power level was very close as well on groundstrokes.

 

[loosegroove]

Yeah TM I understand that the rackets were "designed" for two different types of players, but it isn't that black and white. The London was one of my favorite rackets, even though supposedly it's not meant for my style of play.

I haven't had a chance to play with the Tour Team, just the regular EXO3 Tour (which I've now switched to), so I can't really help you OP. Sorry.

EDIT: Just noticed in your sig that you're playing with the Tour, why you switching?

 

[JackB1]

Demoed the London and got to hit the Tour Team for about 5 minutes but only groundstrokes. Looking for comparisons on serving and any other relevant info between these two sticks. I seemed to like the Tour Team better for groundies. Thanks!

London is great for groundstrokes but excels at the net for volleys and doubles play. Both racquets are very flexible, which means you may have issues getting enough juice on serves. If you like both, just go with whichever you serve better with.

 

[TennisMaverick]

Yeah TM I understand that the rackets were "designed" for two different types of players, but it isn't that black and white. The London was one of my favorite rackets, even though supposedly it's not meant for my style of play.

I haven't had a chance to play with the Tour Team, just the regular EXO3 Tour (which I've now switched to), so I can't really help you OP. Sorry.

EDIT: Just noticed in your sig that you're playing with the Tour, why you switching?

You have to choose racquet parameters which suit your specifics: game style and especially individual specs, such as beam width, head shape, head size, string bed type, lay-up, beam shape, flex, material, etc. With all of the sticks on the market, after those considerations, I know that there are only 3-4 sticks which fit my parameters. That makes it very simple.

I switched to the London Tour because the ball compression on the string bed is longer, so it ups my ball quality's RPM, and surprisingly, although it is a little softer than the PB 10 Mid, there is a touch more power, even though, the ball remains on the string just as long. Although DNX/X is crisper, DC seems to make for a more responsive string bed. you definitely feel that in the London, DC Pro, and Melbourne as well, vs, the PB 10/X8s/10s.

 

[edman9898]

Thanks Jack. Anyone else have COMPARISONS of the two sticks?

 

[BobFL]

You have to choose racquet parameters which suit your specifics: game style and especially individual specs, such as beam width, head shape, head size, string bed type, lay-up, beam shape, flex, material, etc. With all of the sticks on the market, after those considerations, I know that there are only 3-4 sticks which fit my parameters. That makes it very simple.

And in order to make it simple, you complicate things to the max beforehand. Doesn't make any sense.

 

[TennisMaverick]

And in order to make it simple, you complicate things to the max beforehand. Doesn't make any sense.

Whatever, Dude...

 

[edman9898]

Once again back to MY question, does anyone have any comparisons? Not just useless info about specs and bickering!

 

[edman9898]

Yeah TM I understand that the rackets were "designed" for two different types of players, but it isn't that black and white. The London was one of my favorite rackets, even though supposedly it's not meant for my style of play.

I haven't had a chance to play with the Tour Team, just the regular EXO3 Tour (which I've now switched to), so I can't really help you OP. Sorry.

EDIT: Just noticed in your sig that you're playing with the Tour, why you switching?

Sorry to not answer your question sooner. I am keeping one of my tours for singles play. I am just looking for a lighter stick for doubles play.

 

[TennisMaverick]

Once again back to MY question, does anyone have any comparisons? Not just useless info about specs and bickering!

Already told you; the London does not play like a 100in2 topspin rip stick. It is a much more nuanced frame, designed for a totally different type of player. As I previously mentioned, you have to choose racquet parameters which suit your specifics: game style and especially individual specs, such as beam width, head shape, head size, string bed type, lay-up, beam shape, flex, material, etc. And if you believe that individual specs specific to you as the player are useless, then tennis, isn't the game for you, because that is how it's done at the highest levels.

Read the London Bridges thread to find-out about the London.

 

[JackB1]

Once again back to MY question, does anyone have any comparisons? Not just useless info about specs and bickering!

If you like them both, the next sensible step would be to playlist both and go which whichever gives you better results on court. Do you mind the Becker gripshape? If you do, that might be a reason to go with the Prince.

 

[edman9898]

Already told you; the London does not play like a 100in2 topspin rip stick. It is a much more nuanced frame, designed for a totally different type of player. As I previously mentioned, you have to choose racquet parameters which suit your specifics: game style and especially individual specs, such as beam width, head shape, head size, string bed type, lay-up, beam shape, flex, material, etc. And if you believe that individual specs specific to you as the player are useless, then tennis, isn't the game for you, because that is how it's done at the highest levels.

Read the London Bridges thread to find-out about the London.

Wasn't saying individual specs are useless, just your info. I playtested the Tour Team tonight, and the 2 sticksplay VERY similar. Have you read the specs on both? They are similar as we'll., So I guess I do know what I'm doing.

 

[TennisMaverick]

Wasn't saying individual specs are useless, just your info. I playtested the Tour Team tonight, and the 2 sticksplay VERY similar. Have you read the specs on both? They are similar as we'll., So I guess I do know what I'm doing.

You seriously need to read the London thread. I play-tested the proto. It's that simple. But maybe, from who you seem to be, those many pages won't be enough. Comparing BB/Volkl specs, DNX/X/DC to non-Volkl specs....seriously?

 

[edman9898]

Already told you; the London does not play like a 100in2 topspin rip stick. It is a much more nuanced frame, designed for a totally different type of player. As I previously mentioned, you have to choose racquet parameters which suit your specifics: game style and especially individual specs, such as beam width, head shape, head size, string bed type, lay-up, beam shape, flex, material, etc. And if you believe that individual specs specific to you as the player are useless, then tennis, isn't the game for you, because that is how it's done at the highest levels.

Read the London Bridges thread to find-out about the London.

One more thing. No need to read the London Bridges thread. If you read my OP, you would know I demoed the London.

 

[januslow]

I think when one says that the rackets are meant for two different types of players, that is already a comparison made on the two rackets, i.e. racket A is more suitable for baseliner; racket B is more suitable for all court game. I think the question the OP is asking is more of a macroscopic view of the two rackets, but what TM meant is, there is no comparison microscopically, as macroscopic-ally, there are different. That led to the argument.

I also disagree on TM "if you believe that individual specs specific to you as the player are useless, then tennis, isn't the game for you, because that is how it's done at the highest levels." Tennis or any sport, in essence, is meant for all to enjoy regardless of whether you can appreciate or understand the details, like specs of a racket, history of the sport or even counting the points properly. Just saying tennis is only meant for one who can understand it at the highest level is quite an elitist approach and I believe this is not what sport is meant for. Coming from a physical education/physics teacher.

 

[TennisMaverick]

but what TM meant is, there is no comparison microscopically, as macroscopic-ally, there are different. That led to the argument.

Well said, but if you read any Volkl thread, the point is obvious.

I also disagree on TM "if you believe that individual specs specific to you as the player are useless, then tennis, isn't the game for you, because that is how it's done at the highest levels." Tennis or any sport, in essence, is meant for all to enjoy regardless of whether you can appreciate or understand the details, like specs of a racket, history of the sport or even counting the points properly. Just saying tennis is only meant for one who can understand it at the highest level is quite an elitist approach and I believe this is not what sport is meant for. Coming from a physical education/physics teacher.

Yes, agreed; it's not just done for those who understand it at the highest level, but, the concepts of the game are dictated by the highest level. To say that those concepts are useless, is to deny the essence of the game

I donate my time pro bono, every summer, to disadvantaged immigrant youth as part of my company's mission statement to balance the fact that our income is solely derived from competitive players. We dictate our methodology specifically to these children, their respective cultural and intellectual backgrounds, and their age. However, we do try to give them the essentials of what real tennis is. To basically state that playing the game with a tennis racquet is useless, means, that you are playing a different game. If you are a recreational tennis player and you want to say that you wish to experiment, regardless of the specific design of the frame, fine. But if you want to say that specific frame design info is useless, you just are not accepting what is specifically done to play the game at an accomplished level, as though it does not exist, and that is obviously illogical.

Bottom Line: You cannot compare Volkl specs to other frames, post 2005, when Volk started selectively using DNX and later, DC, followed by X, in selective areas of the frames. The characteristics of the racquet controlled by these materials in a selective lay-up, drastically affects overall specs, making them irrelevant, even to their previous iteration which almost always share the same specs, and especially when comparing to other manufacturer's frames--and Volkl, Head, Babolat, and Yonex, all come out of the same factory in Fujian, where all things are equal but design and materials. The London's function doesn't even stylistically compare to any of BB/Volkl's 100in2 frames, whether they be the DNX 6/8, PB 6/8s, X6/8's, DC Pro, or BB Pro, so how can it possibly compare to another company's 100in2 frame? So it goes without saying that the DC London certainly cannot be compared Prince Tour Team, as they were designed for different players.

 

[JackB1]

^^^^^^

You can compare any racquet with any other. Mav is just saying that in considering the recent Volkls, not to go by specs alone, as they do not tell the entire story and may mislead you. Edman, there is really no substitute for on court results. Even though a racquet is designed for a particular type of player, that doesn't mean it won't work somehow for you. All this talk about specs is irrelevant since you already stated you liked both.

 

[Bartelby]

The specs of these two racquets are close, but not really that close, so the difference is the frame itself and not something special in a Becker/Volkl racquet that makes it incomparable.

Fundamentally, you have to decide whether you like the Prince string technology or you prefer the more classically feel oriented Becker. I'd go with the latter but that's a matter of preference.

 

[ksmn]

You have to choose racquet parameters which suit your specifics: game style and especially individual specs, such as beam width, head shape, head size, string bed type, lay-up, beam shape, flex, material, etc. With all of the sticks on the market, after those considerations, I know that there are only 3-4 sticks which fit my parameters. That makes it very simple.

Per the quote above:
I have read your comments posted in many threads regarding choosing the correct racquet for your playing style. I would like to ask your opinion on which of the playing styles below should dictate my racquet, string, and tension selection criteria. How do I balance the needs of the singles vs. doubles play?

I play USTA 4.5 leagues and play about 50% single and doubles. My style of play is very different for each as I am essentially a receiver/counterpuncher in singles, but play attacking close in doubles. I am a fit 45 year old and play with more traditional grips, grips sizes, and limited spin. In my opinion, in singles I win with my legs and in doubles I win with my hands. Almost all of our play is indoors on medium/fast courts.

I have played with many different frames over the past few years including the Becker 11, Yonex RDiS 98, YT Prestige 98, and a stint with the Bab APDGT. I am currently using the Prince EXO 100 Tour 16x18. As you can see, for whatever reason, my previous racquet choices have been all over the map and do not fall into a specific class of frames.

I’d be interested to hear your racquet and/or string recommendations, as I’d like to narrow the field.

 

[JackB1]

^^^^

question regarding last post...
Since this player has 2 very different styles of playing doubles and singles, would it make sense to have a different racquet for each or perhaps set each one up differently with diff tensions and weight mods?

 

[edman9898]

I see what TM is trying to say, and forgive me TM for being a little hostile! I mainly wanted comparisons on serving, volleying, and other thoughts on how they played. I knew they would feel different, as I have played Volkl's in the past. Since playtesting both now, I know what I need. Thanks for everyone's input.

 

[Rabbit]

They are designed for two different types of players. There is no comparison to be made.

OK, this is confusing...

You have to choose racquet parameters which suit your specifics: game style and especially individual specs, such as beam width, head shape, head size, string bed type, lay-up, beam shape, flex, material, etc. With all of the sticks on the market, after those considerations, I know that there are only 3-4 sticks which fit my parameters. That makes it very simple.

So, you understand those parameters for every frame on the market today? You can speak to the layup (for instance) for the Prince Tour Team and include or rule it out of your parameters? Likewise with the materials for every frame on the market? I think you've crossed over to condescending here. I mean if you can describe the layup of the Prince frame and how it differs from the London, I would appreciate it. How do the layups vary specifically between those two frames? How do the ingredients vary? I am very interested.

I see what TM is trying to say, and forgive me TM for being a little hostile! I mainly wanted comparisons on serving, volleying, and other thoughts on how they played. I knew they would feel different, as I have played Volkl's in the past. Since playtesting both now, I know what I need. Thanks for everyone's input.

I understand what you're saying.

I found TM's remarks to be more than a little condescending in this thread. How in the hell is anyone to know the layup of a frame, or the precise mix of materials or the real flex as the RDC is basically useless? The thing to do isn't blueprint specs, layups, all that other stuff. The thing to do is demo, demo, demo. Saying a racquet is designed for a particular type player is disingenuous, the ProStaff was designed with the help of and for Jimmy Connors. Yet more players and more different kinds of players played with it to success over its life.

 

[TennisMaverick]

Per the quote above:
I have read your comments posted in many threads regarding choosing the correct racquet for your playing style. I would like to ask your opinion on which of the playing styles below should dictate my racquet, string, and tension selection criteria. How do I balance the needs of the singles vs. doubles play?

I play USTA 4.5 leagues and play about 50% single and doubles. My style of play is very different for each as I am essentially a receiver/counterpuncher in singles, but play attacking close in doubles. I am a fit 45 year old and play with more traditional grips, grips sizes, and limited spin. In my opinion, in singles I win with my legs and in doubles I win with my hands. Almost all of our play is indoors on medium/fast courts.

I have played with many different frames over the past few years including the Becker 11, Yonex RDiS 98, YT Prestige 98, and a stint with the Bab APDGT. I am currently using the Prince EXO 100 Tour 16x18. As you can see, for whatever reason, my previous racquet choices have been all over the map and do not fall into a specific class of frames.

I’d be interested to hear your racquet and/or string recommendations, as I’d like to narrow the field.

Counter-punchers are a pain in the arse to play, as they generally feed you what you don't like. To do so, they have a large variety of shots; a large repertoire. That requires a stick which can do the same. Your dubs play increases said repertoire. Lastly, your traditional technique mixed with your need for variety, makes things easy. You need a stick with decent plow thru because you don't hit with a lot of spin, and you need to be able to stick volleys and need to have stability on half-volleys. Therefore, topspin 100in2 rip sticks and round head shape frames are out. Most of your past choices were oval 98in2, which makes sense. I would think that you struggled with the Nadal stick, but I could be wrong. You may prefer 18x20 as I do, since they work better with flatter drives, providing more control. However, 16x19 string beds with long dwell time will work as well. So dwell time would be very important.

In summation, I would recommend an oval head shape with a long dwell time, 98in2 and above. I'm a Volkl guy because of feel--which is most important for counter-punchers and touch players--so for your level, I would immediately recommend the London, Melbourne, any V1, and PB 7. There are extensive threads on all. Any male player over 35 and between 4.0-5.5 will slide right into the London or modified V1s in 5 minutes; they are perfect fits.

Question: Did the quick response of the BB 11 cause you control issues? I would assume that the Prestige and Yonex sticks fit, yes?

Regarding string: Since you play dubs, I assume there are many instances where you are peppering volleys where 3-4 of you are at net, where volley techniques need to be very short. That means that full poly is out. You can try gut or multi mains with poly crosses, or just stay with a full bed of gut or multi for feel and pop. These string choices will also help you with your ground stroke variety and feel.

 

[TennisMaverick]

OK, this is confusing...

So, you understand those parameters for every frame on the market today? You can speak to the layup (for instance) for the Prince Tour Team and include or rule it out of your parameters? Likewise with the materials for every frame on the market? I think you've crossed over to condescending here. I mean if you can describe the layup of the Prince frame and how it differs from the London, I would appreciate it. How do the layups vary specifically between those two frames? How do the ingredients vary? I am very interested.

I understand what you're saying.

I found TM's remarks to be more than a little condescending in this thread. How in the hell is anyone to know the layup of a frame, or the precise mix of materials or the real flex as the RDC is basically useless? The thing to do isn't blueprint specs, layups, all that other stuff. The thing to do is demo, demo, demo. Saying a racquet is designed for a particular type player is disingenuous, the ProStaff was designed with the help of and for Jimmy Connors. Yet more players and more different kinds of players played with it to success over its life.

I answered this question an hour ago, but apparently someone didn't like the answer.

Simply put, I don't get paid for esoteric philosophical tennis discussions. I was specifically trying to help the OP from wasting time testing a frame which did not fit. You don't go to Indy and get on the track with an electric NYC Taxi. PERIOD. I'm not going to demo scores of frames when I know my stick parameters which leaves me with examining just 3-4 possibilities. You stopped playing with Volkl--you just started a thread speaking to the fact that you love your stick of six months, which is awesome--so there is nothing for us to discuss. I cannot help you and I am not here to entertain your desire to look for a fight, just because you don't like how I write--you don't have to read my prose, and since you don't play with Volkl, there is no need to--or you got-up on the wrong side of the bed and you are looking for a fight. Find your entertainment or need for confrontation elsewhere. I can get comments deleted just as well as the next guy, within the same hour.

 

[januslow]

Just speaking a few words of fairness (I think), I am currently using a Volkl pb 10 mid and truly appreciate what TM has contributed on his knowledge on Volkl rackets to lead me to this wonderful racket.

Personally, I feel that Rabbit's post is just trying to give his opinions on what TM has said and not trying to pick a fight. In fact, I thought it's pretty objective and makes a lot of sense.

To TM: I think when you give advice to fellow forumers in a pretty strong tone that gives others the impression that you think that you are always right (together with your strong support in Volkl racket, a little pushy it feels at times), do be prepared to defend your arguments when others do not agree and give their thoughts as well. I think just as you have the rights to voice your opinions in this forum, others have the rights too (unless you think that they are not fit enough to challenge your arguments) when they disagree. I admit there are some posters who can get personal, but please do not feel that someone is looking for a fight just because he does not agree with you and challenge your arguments. That may just make life in this forum too stressful and miserable to you. Cheers!

 

[Bartelby]

You don't buy a car from someone who will only drive one brand.

 

[TennisMaverick]

Just speaking a few words of fairness (I think), I am currently using a Volkl pb 10 mid and truly appreciate what TM has contributed on his knowledge on Volkl rackets to lead me to this wonderful racket.

To TM: I think when you give advice to fellow forumers in a pretty strong tone that gives others the impression that you think that you are always right (together with your strong support in Volkl racket, a little pushy it feels at times), do be prepared to defend your arguments when others do not agree and give their thoughts as well. I think just as you have the rights to voice your opinions in this forum, others have the rights too (unless you think that they are not fit enough to challenge your arguments) when they disagree. I admit there are some posters who can get personal, but please do not feel that someone is looking for a fight just because he does not agree with you and challenge your arguments. That may just make life in this forum too stressful and miserable to you. Cheers!

Thanks for the support and advice. With regard to communication style or tone, everything is cultural. Both within the tennis environment I operate in and my geographic location, LES NYC, my tone is moderate at worst. It has nothing to do with pushing sticks; I generate no income. I am just presenting info, much of which isn't out there.

 

[ksmn]

I would think that you struggled with the Nadal stick, but I could be wrong.

Question: Did the quick response of the BB 11 cause you control issues? I would assume that the Prestige and Yonex sticks fit, yes?

Thank you for your detailed response. You are correct that the Prestige and the Yonex were some of my favorites. I have always liked Yonex and bought them exclusively in the days before websites like these turned us all into racquet junkies.

Interesting that you brought up the Becker 11 and the Nadal stick. I had similar results with these. If I was on, both of these sticks allowed me to be more aggressive and end the point earlier than normal. Trouble is that if I was the least bit off, I lost control and simply missed to much. I can't afford that with my style of game.

I am currently playing quite well with the Prince EXO3 Tour 100. I have it strung above medium tension with 17 ga multi. I think the egg head shape is a good compromise between oval and round. I particularly like it at net. I think it is good at the baseline on defense, but less than ok on offense. Serves are less than ok so far.

The Melbourne has been on my list to try, so I hope to give one a demo along with the Yonex VCore D soon.

One other frame that I have wondered about is the BLX Blade. How do you think a racquet such a this would suit my game? It is a frame that my local shop has been recommending, but they don't offer demos.

 

[TennisMaverick]

Thank you for your detailed response. You are correct that the Prestige and the Yonex were some of my favorites. I have always liked Yonex and bought them exclusively in the days before websites like these turned us all into racquet junkies.

Interesting that you brought up the Becker 11 and the Nadal stick. I had similar results with these. If I was on, both of these sticks allowed me to be more aggressive and end the point earlier than normal. Trouble is that if I was the least bit off, I lost control and simply missed to much. I can't afford that with my style of game.

I am currently playing quite well with the Prince EXO3 Tour 100. I have it strung above medium tension with 17 ga multi. I think the egg head shape is a good compromise between oval and round. I particularly like it at net. I think it is good at the baseline on defense, but less than ok on offense. Serves are less than ok so far.

The Melbourne has been on my list to try, so I hope to give one a demo along with the Yonex VCore D soon.

One other frame that I have wondered about is the BLX Blade. How do you think a racquet such a this would suit my game? It is a frame that my local shop has been recommending, but they don't offer demos.

I would expect the Prince to work. Those O Port frames have long dwell times, especially this one, and the 18x20 string bed provides control. The softness also helps with the ball staying on the frame longer. It's one of the few 100in2 topspin rip sticks which allow you to drive the ball.

The Blade, Prestige, and Melbourne are all similar, but feel different. The Melbourne's cupping action provides for more spin and longer dwell time. Demo the Blade if you can get one.

 

[edman9898]

Have to agree about the 18x20 Tour as I have been playing it for a while now. I normally can not play with anything above 98, and like 95's much better. This stick has some mass to it, but like all 100 in sticks I have a little trouble serving flat with it. I guess its the resistance thru the air. The blade actually has tremendous ball pocketing as i tried it out for a few weeks, but I just cant get used to a true 18x20 denser pattern. Serving and volleying was a dream with the blade though, and would make a great doubles stick.

 

[Rabbit]

I answered this question an hour ago, but apparently someone didn't like the answer.

Simply put, I don't get paid for esoteric philosophical tennis discussions. I was specifically trying to help the OP from wasting time testing a frame which did not fit. You don't go to Indy and get on the track with an electric NYC Taxi. PERIOD. I'm not going to demo scores of frames when I know my stick parameters which leaves me with examining just 3-4 possibilities. You stopped playing with Volkl--you just started a thread speaking to the fact that you love your stick of six months, which is awesome--so there is nothing for us to discuss. I cannot help you and I am not here to entertain your desire to look for a fight, just because you don't like how I write--you don't have to read my prose, and since you don't play with Volkl, there is no need to--or you got-up on the wrong side of the bed and you are looking for a fight. Find your entertainment or need for confrontation elsewhere. I can get comments deleted just as well as the next guy, within the same hour.

FYI, this has zero to do with what side of the bed I got up on, zero to do with picking a fight; neither of which interest me in the least. If you don't like the tone and tenor of my reply, maybe you should watch yours as this was basically an echo of many posts I've read of yours.

As to the rest of your reply, I am still very much interested in specfics of exactly which layups are designed for your game and how other layups don't apply. You also stated that it was simple to employ those parameters for anyone looking for a racquet. Again, how are these parameters ascertained? How does one as low as me gain access to this and use it in my purchase?

Just speaking a few words of fairness (I think), I am currently using a Volkl pb 10 mid and truly appreciate what TM has contributed on his knowledge on Volkl rackets to lead me to this wonderful racket.

Personally, I feel that Rabbit's post is just trying to give his opinions on what TM has said and not trying to pick a fight. In fact, I thought it's pretty objective and makes a lot of sense.

To TM: I think when you give advice to fellow forumers in a pretty strong tone that gives others the impression that you think that you are always right (together with your strong support in Volkl racket, a little pushy it feels at times), do be prepared to defend your arguments when others do not agree and give their thoughts as well. I think just as you have the rights to voice your opinions in this forum, others have the rights too (unless you think that they are not fit enough to challenge your arguments) when they disagree. I admit there are some posters who can get personal, but please do not feel that someone is looking for a fight just because he does not agree with you and challenge your arguments. That may just make life in this forum too stressful and miserable to you. Cheers!

Thanks, and that is exactly right. TM think he can say anything he wants to anyone else with a sterotypical New Yorker's attitude. It seems that when he gets a little of his own medicine he cries foul. This really is not the main thrust of my post and you are 100% right there as wel.

TM was totally dismissive in his reply to you telling you the parameters with which you should be looking for a racquet. Those included layup and materials. Personally, as I indicated, I think that is complete and total bravo sierra. You should demo. If you like a frame, the layup matters zero. Now, if I'm wrong, I'd appreciate clarafication from TM as to how a layup is designed for him, for his style of play. I would also like to know how he knows that a Prince is not. How does he know that Dunlop doesn't employ that layup?

If racquets are made in the same factory in China, do the matereials vary? I'd be real intersted to know how Volkl's materials vary so much from everyone else and their layups/construction...

 

[bad_call]

FYI, this has zero to do with what side of the bed I got up on, zero to do with picking a fight; neither of which interest me in the least. If you don't like the tone and tenor of my reply, maybe you should watch yours as this was basically an echo of many posts I've read of yours.

As to the rest of your reply, I am still very much interested in specfics of exactly which layups are designed for your game and how other layups don't apply. You also stated that it was simple to employ those parameters for anyone looking for a racquet. Again, how are these parameters ascertained? How does one as low as me gain access to this and use it in my purchase?



Thanks, and that is exactly right. TM think he can say anything he wants to anyone else with a sterotypical New Yorker's attitude. It seems that when he gets a little of his own medicine he cries foul. This really is not the main thrust of my post and you are 100% right there as wel.

TM was totally dismissive in his reply to you telling you the parameters with which you should be looking for a racquet. Those included layup and materials. Personally, as I indicated, I think that is complete and total bravo sierra. You should demo. If you like a frame, the layup matters zero. Now, if I'm wrong, I'd appreciate clarafication from TM as to how a layup is designed for him, for his style of play. I would also like to know how he knows that a Prince is not. How does he know that Dunlop doesn't employ that layup?

If racquets are made in the same factory in China, do the matereials vary? I'd be real intersted to know how Volkl's materials vary so much from everyone else and their layups/construction...

it's been posted in another thread that TM is not in the know tho stating otherwise. just check out this thread.
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=6005502&postcount=70

 

[BobFL]

Counter-punchers are a pain in the arse to play, as they generally feed you what you don't like. To do so, they have a large variety of shots; a large repertoire. That requires a stick which can do the same. Your dubs play increases said repertoire. Lastly, your traditional technique mixed with your need for variety, makes things easy. You need a stick with decent plow thru because you don't hit with a lot of spin, and you need to be able to stick volleys and need to have stability on half-volleys. Therefore, topspin 100in2 rip sticks and round head shape frames are out. Most of your past choices were oval 98in2, which makes sense. I would think that you struggled with the Nadal stick, but I could be wrong. You may prefer 18x20 as I do, since they work better with flatter drives, providing more control. However, 16x19 string beds with long dwell time will work as well. So dwell time would be very important.

In summation, I would recommend an oval head shape with a long dwell time, 98in2 and above. I'm a Volkl guy because of feel--which is most important for counter-punchers and touch players--so for your level, I would immediately recommend the London, Melbourne, any V1, and PB 7. There are extensive threads on all. Any male player over 35 and between 4.0-5.5 will slide right into the London or modified V1s in 5 minutes; they are perfect fits.

Question: Did the quick response of the BB 11 cause you control issues? I would assume that the Prestige and Yonex sticks fit, yes?

Regarding string: Since you play dubs, I assume there are many instances where you are peppering volleys where 3-4 of you are at net, where volley techniques need to be very short. That means that full poly is out. You can try gut or multi mains with poly crosses, or just stay with a full bed of gut or multi for feel and pop. These string choices will also help you with your ground stroke variety and feel.

What you are saying is surreal. So you are saying that some racquets cannot produce all shots? Or that certain strings give you more variety? Full poly-job is not good when short volley technique is required? Cosmic size nonsense.

 

[jackcrawford]

Thanks, and that is exactly right. TM think he can say anything he wants to anyone else with a sterotypical New Yorker's attitude. It seems that when he gets a little of his own medicine he cries foul. This really is not the main thrust of my post and you are 100% right there as wel.

TM was totally dismissive in his reply to you telling you the parameters with which you should be looking for a racquet. Those included layup and materials. Personally, as I indicated, I think that is complete and total bravo sierra. You should demo. If you like a frame, the layup matters zero. Now, if I'm wrong, I'd appreciate clarafication from TM as to how a layup is designed for him, for his style of play. I would also like to know how he knows that a Prince is not. How does he know that Dunlop doesn't employ that layup?

If racquets are made in the same factory in China, do the matereials vary? I'd be real intersted to know how Volkl's materials vary so much from everyone else and their layups/construction...

Does Volkl really think this type of poster (TM)/these type of posts help business? As always, good points, Rabbit.

 

[Rabbit]

it's been posted in another thread that TM is not in the know tho stating otherwise. just check out this thread.
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=6005502&postcount=70

You know, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if DNX is Volkl's name for basalt. The manufacturers pretty much label any advance in graphite or carbon fibre if you're trying to sound smarter than you are (you have to make sure to spell fiber as fibre as well, akin to an American spelling odor as odour in an attempt to look Continental) with some new techno-name that really means nothing. Wilson now has a new name for the new Federer racquet, something equally as silly....Amplifeel.

What really set me off was the OP asked a legitimate question. TM's reply was just plain offensive, talking about head shape, head size, layup, stringbed construction and blah blah blah as the determing factors for a player. And once you determined those, which was simple, your racquet selection was down to 3 or 4 max. That is complete and total Bravo Sierra and the tone in which he replied was condescending and elitist to the OP who again asked a legitimate question.

If it's so damn simple, let's get it out on the table for everyone. Hell, TW should have a TM dial-in selector that would allow you to give the simple paramters about your game and have a ding ding ding perfect racquet returned.

What you are saying is surreal. So you are saying that some racquets cannot produce all shots? Or that certain strings give you more variety? Full poly-job is not good when short volley technique is required? Cosmic size nonsense.

You got it, boss. I don't understand this whole PHD-izing of tennis. Some people on here make it sound like you need a PHD in Quantum Physics to determine what three basics, racquet, string and tension you should use. TM has gone on long enough about nano-fibers and how they've changed racquets and new nano-fibers are for today's game.... It's one thing to ramble on incessantly not making any sense. I can live with that, hell sometimes I do it. But to be rude to folks asking questions and act like you're the end-all man behind the curtain is just plain unacceptable especially when it's done on a day in and day out basis.

Does Volkl really think this type of poster (TM)/these type of posts help business? As always, good points, Rabbit.

Thanks, Jack. I don't think Volkl recruits this "type" of poster. I think that this is simply bad luck for Volkl. You know, I'm sorry, I have done real well not responding to this type of crap, but the poor OP asked a fairly innocent question and gets brow beat by TM. And TM has done it with such rapidity that it just set me off.

 

[prjacobs]

TM think he can say anything he wants to anyone else with a sterotypical New Yorker's attitude.

Many of us New Yorkers are quite nice. It fact, the social nature of a city where people walk around as opposed to drive makes us very used to congenial conversation .
Our greatest resource is our people.
Your stereotyping of New Yorkers isn't exactly your greatest moment on the forum...

 

[TennisMaverick]

You got it, boss. I don't understand this whole PHD-izing of tennis. Some people on here make it sound like you need a PHD in Quantum Physics to determine what three basics, racquet, string and tension you should use. TM has gone on long enough about nano-fibers and how they've changed racquets and new nano-fibers are for today's game.... It's one thing to ramble on incessantly not making any sense. I can live with that, hell sometimes I do it. But to be rude to folks asking questions and act like you're the end-all man behind the curtain is just plain unacceptable especially when it's done on a day in and day out basis.

Thanks, Jack. I don't think Volkl recruits this "type" of poster. I think that this is simply bad luck for Volkl. You know, I'm sorry, I have done real well not responding to this type of crap, but the poor OP asked a fairly innocent question and gets brow beat by TM. And TM has done it with such rapidity that it just set me off.

Dude....I made it simple, not complicated; I answered his question better than could have been asked for. Don't blame me for your inadequacies. Why demo a stick which does not fit your game? Duh! If you know your individual need for your game, you dial them in, and choose the handful of frames which fit. If those parameters are PhD to you, so be it; take a pill. If you don't understand that different materials have different attributes, take another pill...

As I said, if I am going to race at Indy, I going there with a race car, driver, and crew, not a NYC taxi, immigrant with a license, and hole-in-the-wall mechanic. If I rip balls like Nadal, then I am going to chose a topspin rip-stick like his. If I have a ton of variety and play in all areas of the court like Federer, then I am going to use a precision stick as he does. When I look at those two different types of sticks, I will then use my "PhD parameters" to narrow those choices down, and demo them only. I'll let you "demo, demo, demo..." while I efficiently start training with my new stick. It's as simple as that; no PhD required.

 

[TennisMaverick]

Many of us New Yorkers are quite nice. It fact, the social nature of a city where people walk around as opposed to drive makes us very used to congenial conversation .
Our greatest resource is our people.
Your stereotyping of New Yorkers isn't exactly your greatest moment on the forum...

Sorry you got dragged into this. Unfortunately, some people just can't be helped, no matter how good the info is.

 

[Bartelby]

Don't you think an apology is in order?

Dude....I made it simple, not complicated; I answered his question better than could have been asked for. Don't blame me for your inadequacies. Why demo a stick which does not fit your game? Duh! If you know your individual need for your game, you dial them in, and choose the handful of frames which fit. If those parameters are PhD to you, so be it; take a pill. If you don't understand that different materials have different attributes, take another pill...medicare pays for it!

As I said, if I am going to race at Indy, I going there with a race car, driver, and crew, not a NYC taxi, immigrant, and hole-in-the-wall mechanic.

 

[TennisMaverick]

What you are saying is surreal. So you are saying that some racquets cannot produce all shots? Or that certain strings give you more variety? Full poly-job is not good when short volley technique is required? Cosmic size nonsense.

Whatever....dude...."ksmn" was down with the answer and he was the one who asked. Now if you really like surreal, try Museum Mile. There should be some Dali or Ernst. If you also want cosmic, try the Hayden Planetarium...

 

[Rabbit]

Many of us New Yorkers are quite nice. It fact, the social nature of a city where people walk around as opposed to drive makes us very used to congenial conversation .
Our greatest resource is our people.
Your stereotyping of New Yorkers isn't exactly your greatest moment on the forum...

I apologize, the use of the phrase "stereotypical New Yorker" was meant in the strictest terms at describine TM's gruff manner. I should note that I work with a great many people in New York, one of my best work friends is from New York, and I have to travel to Garden City regularly on business. He and his wife and I and a couple of other people from the office regularly have dinner when I'm there (or he's here). I introduced him to boiled peanuts and crawfish. And shipped him 20 pounds of un-cracked (per his request) pecans.

I love New York and the people. But just as the south is described as redneck, I'm sure you'll agree we're not all necks. I apologize to you for any slight, I know you're one of the good guys on the forum.

Dude....I made it simple, not complicated; I answered his question better than could have been asked for. Don't blame me for your inadequacies. Why demo a stick which does not fit your game? Duh! If you know your individual need for your game, you dial them in, and choose the handful of frames which fit. If those parameters are PhD to you, so be it; take a pill. If you don't understand that different materials have different attributes, take another pill...

Please answer the question. You specifically said:

You have to choose racquet parameters which suit your specifics: game style and especially individual specs, such as beam width, head shape, head size, string bed type, lay-up, beam shape, flex, material, etc. With all of the sticks on the market, after those considerations, I know that there are only 3-4 sticks which fit my parameters. That makes it very simple.

Now I am interested in how you specifically know the

• lay-up
• material

of all racquets on the market and how that would eliminate them from selection for you specifically.



In reference to your "advice" to the OP, please describe in detail how:

• beam width
• head shape
• beam shape
• material
• lay-up

are to be known (for some) and applied to racquet selection for a player when purchasing a new racquet. I mean you said it was simple. Share with the boards how this is to be done. Surely this would be the single greatest lesson available with regard to equipment.

And since you have a system down, I'd appreciate the same with regard to string and tesnion. You could essentially solve the trifecta for the boards.

I await your reply.

As I said, if I am going to race at Indy, I going there with a race car, driver, and crew, not a NYC taxi, immigrant with a license, and hole-in-the-wall mechanic. If I rip balls like Nadal, then I am going to chose a topspin rip-stick like his. If I have a ton of variety and play in all areas of the court like Federer, then I am going to use a precision stick as he does. When I look at those two different types of sticks, I will then use my "PhD parameters" to narrow those choices down, and demo them only. I'll let you "demo, demo, demo..." while I efficiently start training with my new stick. It's as simple as that; no PhD required.

And how do material and layup affect that selection? A breakdown of the layup of either Nadal or Federer's racquet will suffice. What in the layup of either of these frames suit one or the other to either player and what doesn't? Why couldn't Federer use Nadal's layup in his Wilsons?

How do the materials in the respective frames affect the topspin or precision qualities?

Sorry you got dragged into this. Unfortunately, some people just can't be helped, no matter how good the info is.

An internet board is a terrible way to communicate. prjacobs objected to a phrase I used that was meant for you and just for you. You respond to everyone on the boards like it's p!ssing you off to waste your time to stoop down on an intellectual level to answer them. I apologized and explained myself to prjacobs. You, are a different story.

And some people just don't get that they don't disperse "good information". Rather, they want to feel better about themselves by talking down to everyone around them. You did that very thing in this thread and it's not the 1st time I've seen you do it.

I await my answers.

 

[prjacobs]

Hey Rabbit... No sweat. And thanks.
As a New Yorker, I always knew that you rednecks in the south had good manners . (All - note I'm using humor here... Not to be confused with my usual wise*ss New York attitude).
I also understand that shoes have now come to the south and they have greatly improved the level of tennis down there .

 

[Rabbit]

Hey Rabbit... No sweat. And thanks.
As a New Yorker, I always knew that you rednecks in the south had good manners . (All - note I'm using humor here... Not to be confused with my usual wise*ss New York attitude).
I also understand that shoes have now come to the south and they have greatly improved the level of tennis down there .

They have, but we're only allowed to wear them on weekends at present.

thanks, bud.

 

[TennisMaverick]

I apologized and explained myself to prjacobs. You, are a different story.

And some people just don't get that they don't disperse "good information". Rather, they want to feel better about themselves by talking down to everyone around them. You did that very thing in this thread and it's not the 1st time I've seen you do it.

I await my answers.

You and I can go on-n-on till your medicare prescriptions run-out. I can go at it all day long. You want my time after getting in my grill about a stick which you don't play with because you don't like my TONE? Seriously? You want to call me out because you want some excitement, send me an email. I don't need the mods getting upset because you don't like my tone and can't comprehend my content. LOL...

 

[Bartelby]

You're on meds, too , which ones?

 

[Rabbit]

You and I can go on-n-on till your medicare prescriptions run-out. I can go at it all day long. You want to call me out because you want some excitement, send me an email. I don't need the mods getting upset because you don't like my tone and can't comprehend my content. LOL...

So you can't answer the (as you termed it) simple question.



-oh what a tangled web we weave when first...

 

[jackcrawford]

You and I can go on-n-on till your medicare prescriptions run-out. I can go at it all day long. You want my time after getting in my grill about a stick which you don't play with because you don't like my TONE? Seriously? You want to call me out because you want some excitement, send me an email. I don't need the mods getting upset because you don't like my tone and can't comprehend my content. LOL...

"The cheaper the poster, the tougher the patter" as Bogie would say...