Could Nadal have won 10 consecutive French Open titles

[peakin11mugs]

I differentiate between consistency and greatness. I think a lot include the two together but I think they are different measures simply because sometimes a less consistent player like Nadal can repeatedly bring his a game at the biggest events. No question federer and Djokovic are more consistent. It's not even a debate only a fool would say otherwise. We obviously appreciate all the players it just easy to go one sided on this forum

In terms of greatness though, I and Andre Agassi say Nadal because of his major count, versatility on the biggest occasions and the two ATGs he has beat on their best surface. That doesn't mean he is as consistent or dominant as the other two legends but for me greatness is about bringing your best and beating the best on the biggest occasions. Yes a lot of those are at the FO but Nadal 3-1 over federer at AO and 2-1 over Djokovic at USO when read against his record over them at FO are definitely goathood factors depending on an individuals criteria.

You may take the view that too much emphasis is placed on the majors and true goathood has to show a consistent high level at all tournaments. If so, that's fine, I'm not saying that's wrong. I wouldn't put Nadal in that conversation given this is the first year since 2011 he has managed a full Calendar year on tour.

Federer Nadal and Djokovic are three greatest ever. What makes them special as reasoned arguments can be made for all three depending on what people consider the most important factors. Some might say Djokovic holding all four majors at once was so unique that makes him goat. Not my opinion but it wouldn't be a totally daft thing to say.

It is just a shame that so much vitriol gets aimed at these three players from opposing fan bases. When they are all done everyone will love all three but I would suggest we enjoy them now as they won't go on forever.

No offence thoug I do hope del Portro beats federer today. Not because of any dislike to federer, simply because I love del Porto and actually if he were to play Nadal tomorrow I would be split in my support as del potro deserves a masters 1000

You’re clearly not a troll we just have different opinions which is what a forum is all about. Apologies for any previous lack of respectable discussion or trolling.

Absolutely agree about the greatness v consistency thing and what people choose to place more emphasis on. I think there is at least some weakness in the logic though as yes a GS final against federer is a huge match but so is a 4th round against a 100’ranked player. If you couldn’t beat that 100 ranked player If you were suddenly teleported into a final against federer you would not have won that match either. Nadals big matches is definitely a GOAT quality in his resume especially wimb 2008 (and his others which he lost even) I personally reckon if he had just a few more of those big wins it could have swung him into a much clearer GOAT position. I think the longer he plays however he will dilute this in peoples minds. For example big loses like AO 17 or 7-0 to djokovic twice. Also he has had a few losses at RG now and likely will rack up more. Obviously he is unreal at RG and playing more should not harm your legacy but in people’s minds it will if you’re relying on the greatness factor. It waters down the GOAT aura (for a player like nadal who is more about greatness as a pose to consistency) Also if and this is a huge if - federer does manage to actually turn around the match up and lets say win 4 or 5 more encounters with let’s say one a WTF final and one a slam final then he has at least turned around the match up at an important stage and that takes a massive chunk of the aura nadal has away from him.

Obviously nadal is without a doubt one one of the greatest champions any sport has seen. All of the big four have GOAT achievements which are unique even Murray with his 2 OG or Djokovic with four in a row or his 2011, nadal with la décima. My opinion is if you add them up then fed has the most. It sounds like you emphasise the greatness for me it’s the last man standing. They are both just opinions. At 36 federer has survived it all he is outlasting everyone. The age, the surface changes, the s+v to base line switch, the technology changes, the nadals, the djokovics, he plays with an out of date racket and grip, he survived the injuries, players mentally and physically fell around him even those in their twenties or just 30, he survived it all to get the most Wimbledon’s, the most WTF, the most US and the 2nd most AO.

And yes it is important to be able to appreciate all the players. Unfortunately even in the Apple vs Android debate there is a lot of vitriol lol. Sometimes i wish I didnt come across this forum as it makes you root against players as a pose to just going with what you feel e.g. rooting for del Potro cos if his injuries etc. I actually used to root for nadal many times. E.g. against fed jn 2008 wimb after I heard he cried for one hour after losing and thought that might be his last chance or for him to win the GS by getting US.

 

[Bavaria]

You’re clearly not a troll we just have different opinions which is what a forum is all about. Apologies for any previous lack of respectable discussion or trolling.

Absolutely agree about the greatness v consistency thing and what people choose to place more emphasis on. I think there is at least some weakness in the logic though as yes a GS final against federer is a huge match but so is a 4th round against a 100’ranked player. If you couldn’t beat that 100 ranked player If you were suddenly teleported into a final against federer you would not have won that match either. Nadals big matches is definitely a GOAT quality in his resume especially wimb 2008 (and his others which he lost even) I personally reckon if he had just a few more of those big wins it could have swung him into a much clearer GOAT position. I think the longer he plays however he will dilute this in peoples minds. For example big loses like AO 17 or 7-0 to djokovic twice. Also he has had a few losses at RG now and likely will rack up more. Obviously he is unreal at RG and playing more should not harm your legacy but in people’s minds it will if you’re relying on the greatness factor. It waters down the GOAT aura (for a player like nadal who is more about greatness as a pose to consistency) Also if and this is a huge if - federer does manage to actually turn around the match up and lets say win 4 or 5 more encounters with let’s say one a WTF final and one a slam final then he has at least turned around the match up at an important stage and that takes a massive chunk of the aura nadal has away from him.

Obviously nadal is without a doubt one one of the greatest champions any sport has seen. All of the big four have GOAT achievements which are unique even Murray with his 2 OG or Djokovic with four in a row or his 2011, nadal with la décima. My opinion is if you add them up then fed has the most. It sounds like you emphasise the greatness for me it’s the last man standing. They are both just opinions. At 36 federer has survived it all he is outlasting everyone. The age, the surface changes, the s+v to base line switch, the technology changes, the nadals, the djokovics, he plays with an out of date racket and grip, he survived the injuries, players mentally and physically fell around him even those in their twenties or just 30, he survived it all to get the most Wimbledon’s, the most WTF, the most US and the 2nd most AO.

And yes it is important to be able to appreciate all the players. Unfortunately even in the Apple vs Android debate there is a lot of vitriol lol. Sometimes i wish I didnt come across this forum as it makes you root against players as a pose to just going with what you feel e.g. rooting for del Potro cos if his injuries etc. I actually used to root for nadal many times. E.g. against fed jn 2008 wimb after I heard he cried for one hour after losing and thought that might be his last chance or for him to win the GS by getting US.

Yes totally agree with some of that, although I still personally a sof now would have Nadal as goat, but as you rightly say actually the story isn't over. So in some ways it's a premature argument anyway and a lot of your points are correct in terms of what happens from this point forward.

I do also think Nadal has to be a bit careful at Wimbledon, and also federer at the FO. Federer shouldn't skip such an important part of season and likewise Nadal can't keep losing in first week at the worlds most prestigious event. Players of their status, and we are talking now of the two best ever probably really should be making at least quarters at all major events, let's be honest they are easily good enough. So as a Nadal fan even though he had an amazing year his Wimbledon loss was disappointing as it was in 2013. Similarly I'm really disappointed roger didn't play on clay. I understand his reasons but still, I feel we were robbed of his graceful play on the grinders surface and it's disappointing.

Totally agree about Internet forums. I actually used to love federerer and root for him unless against Rafa and del Potro but then the forums sprung up all over the place and because of trolls I found myself wanting him to lose which is ridiculous as I'm sure Nadal and federer would be embarrassed by a lot of the vitriol on forums.

Tomorrow will be fun. Hope Rafa wins but above all hope it's a three hour match so we can enjoy it. We won't get this too many more times so hope you enjoy it as well.

 

[kevaninho]

He has missed at least one slam 8 separate years.
Never reached four slam finals in a year. Never
Reached at least four semis once. Yes once.
Countless losses to mugs in his PEAK yes PEAK

And no not playing slams adds nothing to his resume or his bank account. That is absolutely hilarious. Is Stan a better player then nadal because he only reached 4 slam finals his whole career but won 75 percent hahah

Playing full seasons would not work for nadal. He only peaks the immediate year when his opponents have a decline (2008, 2010, 2013, 2017 etc) and only for 75 percent of that single year. Nothing to suggest if he played more he would be better. Actually quite the opposite

Lol there is no Djokovic. And fed beat him many times last few years. Lol do you watch tennis?

11 months consecutive prior yomclay season or not is irrelevant. Point is everyone plays 11 months and has done for years or decades. Nadal keeps taking 6 months off and is mentally and physically fresh. He can actually go fishing and take holidays

Youre ranting at yourself here, making points that I haven't asked about lol I will pick out you saying rafa only wins when other guys have a decline lol what age are you?

And how often has roger beaten novak in the past 2 years? whats the h2h in that time ? lol

 

[DSH]

And Fed had converted that BP deep in the 5th against Rafa in 2008, he would have won 7 Wimb titles in a row.

Stuff like this happens. That's why winning a slam 5+ times in a row is difficult as there are so many factor involved among which: maintaining your own form as well as hoping for the opposition to not catch fire at some point.

If Nadal broke Federer early in the fifth set of their match in 2007, it would have ended Federer's dominance at Wimbledon a year earlier.

 

[mike danny]

If Nadal broke Federer early in the fifth set of their match in 2007, it would have ended Federer's dominance at Wimbledon a year earlier.

Small margins is my point.