D3 tennis

I

Ihatetennis

Hall of Fame
Alec said:
I'm not doubting that just there is a huge level difference even with best of the best D3 times simply because of depth. I have some friends going to top D3 schools next year and they've even said this
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Oh, I never said they were as good. That's not what I meant at all. Just that they are recruiting at the same level is all.
 
I

Ihatetennis

Hall of Fame
Alec said:
ahhhhh makes sense
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As of right now, amherst is ranked 21 in top recruiting class because of it's players

Edit: These rankings are based on votes, I think they are underrated as they have a much better haul than 16 penn. Being d3 though, I feel they weren't considered that much and are wayyyy underrated.
 
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okdude1992

okdude1992

Hall of Fame
Ihatetennis said:
2 5star recruits and 4stars. I mean bottom top 25, but still. 2 5star recruits is really good.

I don't think they can be that good though, I just think they're recruiting that good.
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That's just not quite accurate. While it is crazy impressive that Amherst has managed to snag now 3 5 stars, they still are behind the top D1 teams.

Look at the TRN rankings of those 5 stars: #65, #59, #45. Nothing to sniff at by any means. But all the top D1 teams will be snapping up the Blue Chips or comparable foreign players. Take for example Stanford. They are ranked like 37th in D1 right now. Yet their lineup is so deep that blue chips are sitting on the bench. Guys like Tsodikov #11 blue chip, or Strobel #17 blue chip, barely got playing time. Stanford is an extreme example, but many programs in that ranking range have a similar situation. An average 5 star would definitely not make the starting lineup
 
I

Ihatetennis

Hall of Fame
okdude1992 said:
That's just not quite accurate. While it is crazy impressive that Amherst has managed to snag now 3 5 stars, they still are behind the top D1 teams.

Look at the TRN rankings of those 5 stars: #65, #59, #45. Nothing to sniff at by any means. But all the top D1 teams will be snapping up the Blue Chips or comparable foreign players. Take for example Stanford. They are ranked like 37th in D1 right now. Yet their lineup is so deep that blue chips are sitting on the bench. Guys like Tsodikov #11 blue chip, or Strobel #17 blue chip, barely got playing time. Stanford is an extreme example, but many programs in that ranking range have a similar situation. An average 5 star would definitely not make the starting lineup
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In overall recruiting classes they were rated 21 out of every team in the country, including d1. If they recruited like that every year they would be top 75 or so in d1. Just because of a lack of practice.
 
okdude1992

okdude1992

Hall of Fame
Ihatetennis said:
In overall recruiting classes they were rated 21 out of every team in the country, including d1. If they recruited like that every year they would be top 75 or so in d1. Just because of a lack of practice.
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Yea I saw that. I'm not sure how they do those ratings, but they seem to reward quantity of recruits. When in actuality its all about quality, since only 6 people start.

As for the bolded, that's far different than your initial claim.... But I could agree with that. A lineup of entirely 5 stars would have the depth to be top 75.
 
I

Ihatetennis

Hall of Fame
okdude1992 said:
Yea I saw that. I'm not sure how they do those ratings, but they seem to reward quantity of recruits. When in actuality its all about quality, since only 6 people start.

As for the bolded, that's far different than your initial claim.... But I could agree with that. A lineup of entirely 5 stars would have the depth to be top 75.
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I said they were recruiting at the level of the top 25 teams, which they are as seen by the poll. Since they are rated 21 overall.
 
okdude1992

okdude1992

Hall of Fame
Ihatetennis said:
I said they were recruiting at the level of the top 25 teams, which they are as seen by the poll. Since they are rated 21 overall.
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Well initially you said they were looking like a top 25 d1 team. Not that they were recruiting like one this year. Anyways nbd.

I saw the poll you are referring to, but I just don't really agree with it. Getting 3 middle-lower 5 stars doesn't equate to getting 1-2 bluechips or comparable foreigners with tour experience. And that is what pretty much all top 50 D1 teams are working with. If you want an accurate comparison just compare the UTR ratings of the starting lineup, Amherst vs any top 50 D1. You will see what I mean.
 
I

Ihatetennis

Hall of Fame
Clemson_tennis said:
Exactly. Youngstown is a bad D1 team. D3 just is not that good. They get too much credit here.
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Cnu didn't have the depth. They took top singles and 2 doubles

4-5 in d3 scoring. But compare CNU to uchi or Amherst and they will lose most of their matches to them.

I think only 1-3 teams in d3 are even close to the level.
 
A

andfor

Legend
The fascination with continuing to compare other divisions to DI continues.

I do like the UTR ranking of teams for comparison just for fun. Without many head-to-head duels its mostly fantasy.
 
I

Ihatetennis

Hall of Fame
andfor said:
The fascination with continuing to compare other divisions to DI continues.

I do like the UTR ranking of teams for comparison just for fun. Without many head-to-head duels its mostly fantasy.
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I chose a nearby school, Abilene Christian University for comparison to amherst. ACU has 2 utr 13 players and the rest of the lineup with utr 12. Amherst will have 3 UTR 13 players and the rest utr 12 in the lineup.

ACU is ranked 66 in the country in d1.

University of Incarnate word is made up of utr 12 and 11 in the lineup.

Incarnate word is fully funded as well.
 
C

Clemson_tennis

Legend
Last year Amherst played Harvard. Harvard won 7-0(9-0). Amherst won 1 set on court 1 (Harvard sat their #1 Nguyen for the match) and got blasted on the remaining 5 courts. It was Harvard's easiest match of the year. They had tougher matches against Buffalo, Marist, Bryant and Boston U (6-1 each with several closer sets). UTR does not mean everything, you can't assume these players keep their junior level their entire career in D3. D1 is much more intense in terms of competition, resources and athletic support. D1 athletes are more likely to improve and get better while D3 athletes more likely to focus on academics and let their tennis games drop (why else does any good junior player choose Amherst? It's not for tennis believe me, its for academics).

Abilene and UIW would rake Amherst.
 
I

Ihatetennis

Hall of Fame
Clemson_tennis said:
Last year Amherst played Harvard. Harvard won 7-0(9-0). Amherst won 1 set on court 1 (Harvard sat their #1 Nguyen for the match) and got blasted on the remaining 5 courts. It was Harvard's easiest match of the year. They had tougher matches against Buffalo, Marist, Bryant and Boston U (6-1 each with several closer sets). UTR does not mean everything, you can't assume these players keep their junior level their entire career in D3. D1 is much more intense in terms of competition, resources and athletic support. D1 athletes are more likely to improve and get better while D3 athletes more likely to focus on academics and let their tennis games drop (why else does any good junior player choose Amherst? It's not for tennis believe me, its for academics).

Abilene and UIW would rake Amherst.
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according to the UTR they wouldn't.

If amherst had the training time that d1 had, they would have the talent to be ranked around 50.
 
tennisbuck

tennisbuck

Hall of Fame
andfor said:
The fascination with continuing to compare other divisions to DI continues.

I do like the UTR ranking of teams for comparison just for fun. Without many head-to-head duels its mostly fantasy.
Click to expand...

Yeah...doesn't it seem like this topic has been run to the ground?

Anyway, yeah UTR is pretty cool. When I first heard about it, I thought it would be weird, but it's actually surprisingly accurate.
 
C

Clemson_tennis

Legend
Ihatetennis said:
according to the UTR they wouldn't.

If amherst had the training time that d1 had, they would have the talent to be ranked around 50.
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That's why they would lose though. Buffalo,Marist,Bryant, Boston U all gave Harvard a better match with Harvard's #1. All 4 are low D1 and would likely beat Amherst.

Players who choose D3 are players who no longer care about tennis as much. They go to D3 so they can focus on other things but still do tennis because they wouldn't drop the sport cold turkey due to how much their parents spent on them to train and get to the level they are.

If they wanted to train and get better at tennis they would choose D1. You can't have a good team, when it's full of players who have lost their drive to get better at tennis.
 
Collegetennisrules

Collegetennisrules

Rookie
Not sure all of that is true. Elite Div. 3 teams can hold their own against some of the schools listed above. Also, many elite Div. 3 players do care a lot about tennis and play for the right reasons not just for a scholarship.
 
okdude1992

okdude1992

Hall of Fame
Ihatetennis said:
I chose a nearby school, Abilene Christian University for comparison to amherst. ACU has 2 utr 13 players and the rest of the lineup with utr 12. Amherst will have 3 UTR 13 players and the rest utr 12 in the lineup.

ACU is ranked 66 in the country in d1.

University of Incarnate word is made up of utr 12 and 11 in the lineup.

Incarnate word is fully funded as well.
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Well there you have it. Herst will on paper look better than some #50-80 teams next year.

Whether they could actually beat any of those teams in a dual match is another story.
 
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A

andfor

Legend
The D1 ranking even at this time are fluid and numerous ranked teams are over ranked and will not be in the rankings soon. Comparing Hurst to ACU or #60 whatever ranked D1 team at this point in the season is pure fantasy. Enjoy
 
tennisfan17

tennisfan17

Professional
Ihatetennis said:
I chose a nearby school, Abilene Christian University for comparison to amherst. ACU has 2 utr 13 players and the rest of the lineup with utr 12. Amherst will have 3 UTR 13 players and the rest utr 12 in the lineup.

ACU is ranked 66 in the country in d1.

University of Incarnate word is made up of utr 12 and 11 in the lineup.

Incarnate word is fully funded as well.
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What part of part of Texas are you from? I live not crazy far from ACU and know a few guys on the team.
 
QuadCam

QuadCam

Professional
lgbalfa said:
i don't believe that Amherst is a top notch academic school either compared to schools in the Big 10 or SEC, etc..
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Ha... You better check your Amherst info. He's not talking about U Mass Amherst.... He's talking about Amherst College. Amherst College is considered one of "the little 3". It is essentially an Ivy, but not officially. It's a fantastic academically oriented school !
 
T

tennis137

New User
D3 schools are very good academically. Currently the head coach for a very strong d3 program here runs a junior program that I am in. As I've gotten to work with him over the past two years, I have also increasingly learned more and more about d3 schools and tennis. The coach is the head men's coach at Case Western Reserve University. The program here is solid but not the top for d3. The team recently placed 3rd at the ita indoor nationals. Schools like university of Chicago l, Carnegie Mellon, and CWRU are all very strong academically and they target smart kids who are good enough to play college tennis but not good enough to play at a top academic school (Stanford, Harvard, and more). A perfect example of this is Emory university, in the spring they brought in three 4 star recruits. These players could play d1 tennis but not at a school as academically strong as Emory.
 
I

Ihatetennis

Hall of Fame
tennis137 said:
D3 schools are very good academically. Currently the head coach for a very strong d3 program here runs a junior program that I am in. As I've gotten to work with him over the past two years, I have also increasingly learned more and more about d3 schools and tennis. The coach is the head men's coach at Case Western Reserve University. The program here is solid but not the top for d3. The team recently placed 3rd at the ita indoor nationals. Schools like university of Chicago l, Carnegie Mellon, and CWRU are all very strong academically and they target smart kids who are good enough to play college tennis but not good enough to play at a top academic school (Stanford, Harvard, and more). A perfect example of this is Emory university, in the spring they brought in three 4 star recruits. These players could play d1 tennis but not at a school as academically strong as Emory.
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Emory has also gotten d1 transfers
 
tennisbuck

tennisbuck

Hall of Fame
March 31st, 2016 D3 National Rankings

1.Emory
2 Bowdoin
3 Middlebury
4 Claremont-Mudd-Scripps
5 Chicago
6 Case Western Reserve
7 Carnegie Mellon
8 Amherst
9 Williams
10 Pomona-Pitzer
11 Wesleyan
12 Trinity
13 Washington University - St. Louis
14 Whitman
15 Redlands
16 UW-Whitewater
17 Tufts
18 Kenyon
19 Gustavus Adolphus
20 Christopher Newport

How about Bowdoin?
 
gino

gino

Legend
tennisbuck said:
March 31st, 2016 D3 National Rankings

1.Emory
2 Bowdoin
3 Middlebury
4 Claremont-Mudd-Scripps
5 Chicago
6 Case Western Reserve
7 Carnegie Mellon
8 Amherst
9 Williams
10 Pomona-Pitzer
11 Wesleyan
12 Trinity
13 Washington University - St. Louis
14 Whitman
15 Redlands
16 UW-Whitewater
17 Tufts
18 Kenyon
19 Gustavus Adolphus
20 Christopher Newport

How about Bowdoin?
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Bowdoin really doesn't deserve that spot. They snagged a lucky regular season win over CMS which vaulted them so high. CMS is a bit less stacked then last year, yes, but I'm confident they will destroy almost anyone in their path to another title (maybe not Amherst or Midd).
 
tennisbuck

tennisbuck

Hall of Fame
gino said:
Bowdoin really doesn't deserve that spot. They snagged a lucky regular season win over CMS which vaulted them so high. CMS is a bit less stacked then last year, yes, but I'm confident they will destroy almost anyone in their path to another title (maybe not Amherst or Midd).
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I agree CMS will rebound, but I don't see Amherst being much of a threat the way things are looking. The just got pounded by Tufts and played pretty close against Skidmore.
 
T

Tcbtennis

Hall of Fame
gino said:
Bowdoin really doesn't deserve that spot. They snagged a lucky regular season win over CMS which vaulted them so high. CMS is a bit less stacked then last year, yes, but I'm confident they will destroy almost anyone in their path to another title (maybe not Amherst or Midd).
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I guess they are better than you thought. Bowdoin is the 2016 NCAA Division 3 Men's Champion!
 
W

W4TA

New User
CMS courts are great with good seating and high visibility on all courts, and a central observation tower to view all courts. They also have PlaySight for web streaming/scoring. Among NESCAC schools, many speak highly of the Bates outdoor courts/stadium, although I have not seen the facility.
 
B

bluetrain4

G.O.A.T.
W4TA said:
CMS courts are great with good seating and high visibility on all courts, and a central observation tower to view all courts. They also have PlaySight for web streaming/scoring. Among NESCAC schools, many speak highly of the Bates outdoor courts/stadium, although I have not seen the facility.
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I wonder how much Bates gets to use their outdoor courts. I also wonder if their standard for using them is lower than schools further south. I grew up playing high school tennis in central Minnesota - near Fargo, ND. The only thing keeping us from playing outdoors was precipitation - rain or snow, or snow or ice on the court. Temperature or wind wasn't a deterrent. Then again, we really didn't have much of a choice. I'm sure Bates has an indoor option of some sort, even if it's playing on multi-lined sport courts in the campus athletic facility.
 
W

W4TA

New User
bluetrain4 said:
I wonder how much Bates gets to use their outdoor courts. I also wonder if their standard for using them is lower than schools further south. I grew up playing high school tennis in central Minnesota - near Fargo, ND. The only thing keeping us from playing outdoors was precipitation - rain or snow, or snow or ice on the court. Temperature or wind wasn't a deterrent. Then again, we really didn't have much of a choice. I'm sure Bates has an indoor option of some sort, even if it's playing on multi-lined sport courts in the campus athletic facility.
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True, the Maine schools often play early spring matches indoors due to weather, and Bates' indoor courts are infamous for the challenges they present to opposing teams (their indoor courts are not to the same standard as their outdoor courts/stadium, which are high quality).
 
A

andfor

Legend
Watched Washington University St. Louis play Memphis this Sunday. Memphis won 4-3. Wash U's 1 and 2 were very impressive along with all 3 doubles lines. No D3 ranking out yet but I'd guess they will be a solid top ten.
 
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