Define "Heavy Ball"
- Thread starter TimothyO
- Start date
Funny ding dere.....
My 4.0 bud and I were out hitting, it started to rain, we had openned new DunlopHDHardCourtChamp balls (heaviest and knappiest), so we kept using them.
Rain got so bad, we could hardly see each other, the court was a running water surface, we just kept hitting groundies to each other.
Strange, we could hit harder (swing faster) than we could on dry courts, rallies lasted longer than normal (we weren't making each other run), and workout was killer (good killer, as it satisfied our tennis requirements for that day.
He's 6'1" and 225lbs. using a HeadLMRadMid.
Me, 5'11" and 143 lbs then, using a DunlopMfil 200.
We hit for just over an hour in the rain.
My 4.0 bud and I were out hitting, it started to rain, we had openned new DunlopHDHardCourtChamp balls (heaviest and knappiest), so we kept using them.
Rain got so bad, we could hardly see each other, the court was a running water surface, we just kept hitting groundies to each other.
Strange, we could hit harder (swing faster) than we could on dry courts, rallies lasted longer than normal (we weren't making each other run), and workout was killer (good killer, as it satisfied our tennis requirements for that day.
He's 6'1" and 225lbs. using a HeadLMRadMid.
Me, 5'11" and 143 lbs then, using a DunlopMfil 200.
We hit for just over an hour in the rain.
Tmano
Hall of Fame
I don't think it is...it's a more penetrating low power shot that if hit well stays low and goes even lower to the court once bounces...but not a heavy shot. However it's an affective shot...i like to hit it with some side spin.
Exactly. I don't think slices qualify as heavy balls. Really nothing heavy about them. Nadal eats Fed's slices for lunch.
You two guys have never played a player who has heavy slices, that's all.
Not your fault, you haven't played every different player yet.
Fed's match slices are not heavy at all. BUT, when you and I hit with Fed, you can bet his slices are super heavy, when he wants to hit them. Matches, his slices are not the same ones he can hit to you and me.
Doesn't Tmano's definition of the slices HE has faced imply a "heavy" ball?
Not your fault, you haven't played every different player yet.
Fed's match slices are not heavy at all. BUT, when you and I hit with Fed, you can bet his slices are super heavy, when he wants to hit them. Matches, his slices are not the same ones he can hit to you and me.
Doesn't Tmano's definition of the slices HE has faced imply a "heavy" ball?
Ah, my young Jedi, you haven't played against a player with a really good slice.
If you can't hit solid against the slice, it's "heavy".
If you can crush the ball EVERYtime you face a slice, then you are correct, and Tmano also.
I've played a few guys who can slice it back deep, make the ball skid awkwardly to either side, and hitting solid against that ball is almost impossible FOR ME, so it's heavy TO ME.
Of course, they were not my peers, but rather a full level better.
If you can't hit solid against the slice, it's "heavy".
If you can crush the ball EVERYtime you face a slice, then you are correct, and Tmano also.
I've played a few guys who can slice it back deep, make the ball skid awkwardly to either side, and hitting solid against that ball is almost impossible FOR ME, so it's heavy TO ME.
Of course, they were not my peers, but rather a full level better.
Correct. It is the topspin + pace which makes a heavy ball. A slice can be a reasonable shot, but never an overwhelmingly powerful one, unless someone makes stupid comparisons like Fed vs a rec player.
Example, I play with someone that has good slice and twist serves. His sliders are fast and tough to get, such that i mishit them frequently. I would never term those things heavy.
However, his well struck kick serves are more than aptly described as heavy.
Even is Fed was blasting balls past you that are flat or sliced, they still wouldn't be heavy.
I agree. Heaviness involves more forward and rotational twisting energy that a slice can never provide. An underspin ball can never overwhelm the racket, that is why slice is always considered a defensive stroke even at the highest levels.
haha tell that to delpo. your balls are flat they don't feel heavy to me while being pushed around like a rag doll just trying to get your racquet on one of his balls. hard flat ball can gain topspin after the bounce as described by coach smith above. it would be interesting to measure spin rpm after bounce.
Delpo's slices would still not be considered heavy.
Flat and very hard vs one with a lot of topspin = interesting. It is on one side of the forward+rotational energy continuum and as you point out, reflection from the ground can produce topspin.
But no, slices are not heavy.
no not slice. slice is rarely described as heavy. more like tricky.
I think pace is essential in adding extra topspin after the bounce, which could be the key to heavy perception for returner.
Generally I agree with you about Connors' serve, but go watch the '74 USO final between Connors and Rosewall. I was surprised at how effective Connors' serve looked in that match. He was hitting it hard compared to Rosewall, and it had a lot of nice action on it - some lefty american twist happening. Neither of these things have I ever associated with a Jimmy Connors serve.
Connors pumped up his serve in the early 80's and that helped him pick up those two USOs and the W. Lendl choking a bit helped too on the USOs, but Connors clearly worked on his serve and got it at least to "decent" level (for a pro at that time).
YOU figure it out.
NO serve to speak of. Lowest level ATP volleys. Forehand grip forehand volleys and 2hbh grip backhand volleys. Relies on his groundstrokes and return of serves to be No. ONE ATP for a couple years.
Was his groundstrokes considered "heavy"? He hit 50% topspin on his forehand side, the rest sidespin. He hit 50% topspin on his 2hbh, the rest a combination of UNDERspin and sidespin.
What about Rosewall? He hit mainly a combi of slice and sidespin, and he was a pretty good player, with no serve.
NO serve to speak of. Lowest level ATP volleys. Forehand grip forehand volleys and 2hbh grip backhand volleys. Relies on his groundstrokes and return of serves to be No. ONE ATP for a couple years.
Was his groundstrokes considered "heavy"? He hit 50% topspin on his forehand side, the rest sidespin. He hit 50% topspin on his 2hbh, the rest a combination of UNDERspin and sidespin.
What about Rosewall? He hit mainly a combi of slice and sidespin, and he was a pretty good player, with no serve.
