Dense pattern sends ball deeper(is this true?)

[realplayer]

I read in an article that a dense pattern makes the ball go deep because of the lack of spin.
I just wonder if this is true as my main goal is to have control and not seeing balls travel behind the baseline.

What are your experiences???

This is the part of the article:


Also affected by the string pattern is the spin potential of the racquet. When a racquet has a less dense string pattern, the open strings will "bite" the ball more and in return put more spin on the ball. In contrast, a more dense string pattern won't bite the ball as much and cause the ball to travel deeper in the court. It's up to you to figure out which type of pattern works for you!

 

[ricki]

my exp so far: Open pattern has too high launch angle for my likes.
closed pattern is sometimes risky as I can hit the ball into net when not in position.
Overall i like dense pattern muchoz. P.S. open pattern can help flat hitter get some nice spin, with closed you need to swing upwards more.

 

[slowfox]

Some open patterns have denser spacing near the middle of the bed. Wonder how that affects things..?

 

[MikeHitsHard93]

This is very complicated and you cannot just assume that denser string patterns send the ball farther. In general physics, any object launched at a 45 degree angle will go further than if hit at 30 degrees either way. More open patterns launch at a higher angle, so it could be justified that they would send the ball further. However, it depends on the players ability to add spin. Enough spin can be applied to bring the ball down faster.

Dense patterns are more stiff than open patterns, and thus have less power when strung at the same tension as a open pattern. It really all depends on the player, really.

 

[ChicagoJack]

I read in an article that a dense pattern makes the ball go deep because of the lack of spin. I just wonder if this is true as my main goal is to have control and not seeing balls travel behind the baseline. What are your experiences???

This is the part of the article: Also affected by the string pattern is the spin potential of the racquet. When a racquet has a less dense string pattern, the open strings will "bite" the ball more and in return put more spin on the ball. In contrast, a more dense string pattern won't bite the ball as much and cause the ball to travel deeper in the court. It's up to you to figure out which type of pattern works for you!

Hi RealPlayer,

1. I just googled where that quote from the "article" came from. It seems to be snippet from the buyers guide at an online retail competitors website. If you want to learn about racquet physics, and especially racquet power and spin production, almost everything you'd want to know is located right here in the Tennis Warehouse University. That's a much better source. The content creator, also known as the "TW Professor" is Crawford Lindsey, and he's one of the handful of peeps on the planet who makes a living researching and publishing tennis physics, and has been doing so for 20+ years.

http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/index.php
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/COF.php
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/slidingCOF.php
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/stringballfriction.php
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/stringmovementPart2.php

2. Also, the quote has some really sloppy and misleading verbiage. "... will cause the ball to travel deeper in the court", can mean lots of things and is not synonymos with racquet power, or ball velocity. That can be achieved with just a slight alteration in rebound angle, and flight path. A denser pattern will create a lower trajectory over the net given the same stroke. A more open pattern will create a higher trajectory over the net. If the player compensates for this higher trajectory by closing the racquet face, this will create more spin. If the player does not compensate, this will result in the ball traveling deeper in the court, not because the ball is going faster, but merely because it is passing higher over the net.

3. Open Patterns and spin: Yes it is true that open patterns create more ball "Bite", and for 20 years, ball bite has been synonymous with spin. That is old thinking. What we've learned since 2005 - 2008 is that low interstring friction (which promotes the mains sliding and snapping back) is far more important to spin production than ball to string friction. When the ball impacts the string bed, the ball is compressed to nearly half its original shape. When the ball is squashed into the stringbed like a bug on a windshield, there is no "more bite" or "less bite" to be had. The ball bites 100% of the time, every time. Ball bite is only important in the very last phase of the mains sliding and back, as the ball has to "re-bite" just before exiting the string bed, with that last little flick that creates the additional spin.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/01/the-new-physics-of-tennis/308339/

4. Dense Patterns and Ball Velocity: A denser pattern (at the same tension) creates a stiffer string bed. a stiffer stringbed will create diminished ball velocity because the ball compresses more. Increased ball compression means that more of the stored kinetic energy is lost. Actually, energy is never ever lost, it's just converted into things like heat, and friction, and vibration, things which are not useful for making a ball go fast.

Nutshell: Denser patterns will create a stiffer stringbed, which diminishes ball velocity slightly. More importantly, it will also create a lower trajectory over the net. Both of these things will create the senario where the ball lands shorter in the court, not further in the court. Denser patterns do offer less ball bite, but that's not what makes for spin potential in string. Ball bite is only important if the mains are sliding and snapping back.

-Jack

 

[Buford T Justice]

Excellent post Chicago Jack.

 

[Fintft]

Hi RealPlayer,

1. I just googled where that quote from the "article" came from. It seems to be snippet from the buyers guide at an online retail competitors website. If you want to learn about racquet physics, and especially racquet power and spin production, almost everything you'd want to know is located right here in the Tennis Warehouse University. That's a much better source. The content creator, also known as the "TW Professor" is Crawford Lindsey, and he's one of the handful of peeps on the planet who makes a living researching and publishing tennis physics, and has been doing so for 20+ years.

http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/index.php
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/COF.php
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/slidingCOF.php
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/stringballfriction.php
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/stringmovementPart2.php

2. Also, the quote has some really sloppy and misleading verbiage. "Sending the ball deeper in the court", can mean lots of things and is not synonymos with racquet power, or ball velocity. That can be achieved with just a slight alteration in rebound angle, and flight path. A denser pattern will create a lower trajectory over the net given the same stroke. A more open pattern will create a higher trajectory over the net. If the player compensates for this higher trajectory by closing the racquet face, this will create more spin. If the player does not compensate, this will result in the ball traveling deeper in the court, not because the ball is going faster, but merely because it is passing higher over the net.

3. Open Patterns and spin: Yes it is true that open patterns create more ball "Bite", and for 20 years, ball bite has been synonymous with spin. That is old thinking. What we've learned since 2005 - 2008 is that low interstring friction (which promotes the mains sliding and snapping back) is far more important to spin production than ball to string friction. When the ball impacts the string bed, the ball is compressed to nearly half its original shape. When the ball is squashed into the stringbed like a bug on a windshield, there is no "more bite" or "less bite" to be had. The ball bites 100% of the time, every time. Ball bite is only important in the very last phase of the mains sliding and back, as the ball has to "re-bite" just before exiting the string bed, with that last little flick that creates the additional spin.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/01/the-new-physics-of-tennis/308339/

4. Dense Patterns and Ball Velocity: A denser pattern (at the same tension) creates a stiffer string bed. a stiffer stringbed will create diminished ball velocity because the ball compresses more. Increased ball compression means that more of the stored kinetic energy is lost. Actually, energy is never ever lost, it's just converted into things like heat, and friction, and vibration, things which are not useful for making a ball go fast.

Nutshell: Denser patterns will create a stiffer stringbed, which diminishes ball velocity slightly. More importantly, it will also create a lower trajectory over the net. Both of these things will create the senario where the ball lands shorter in the court, not further in the court. Denser patterns do offer less ball bite, but that's not what makes for spin potential in string. Ball bite is only important if the mains are sliding and snapping back.

-Jack

I feel that with natural gut the open patterns, 16X18, help me keep the balls in play better, whereas with the denser patterns (18X20), the balls tend to sail long.

 

[ChicagoJack]

Excellent post Chicago Jack.

Thanks.. and I must say, you have the best ever screen name and avatar. Smokey and the Bandit if I recall correctly? That's a classic (smile)

 

[Buford T Justice]

Thanks.. and I must say, you have the best ever screen name and avatar. Smokey and the Bandit if I recall correctly? That's a classic (smile)

Yes.....one of the top movies, and movie characters, of all time!

 

[realplayer]

Hi RealPlayer,



Nutshell: Denser patterns will create a stiffer stringbed, which diminishes ball velocity slightly. More importantly, it will also create a lower trajectory over the net. Both of these things will create the senario where the ball lands shorter in the court, not further in the court. Denser patterns do offer less ball bite, but that's not what makes for spin potential in string. Ball bite is only important if the mains are sliding and snapping back.

-Jack

Well, I never use poly so what does it mean when you only use multi or synthetic gut which is not known for snapping back.

 

[ChicagoJack]

Well, I never use poly so what does it mean when you only use multi or synthetic gut which is not known for snapping back.

Hi RealPlayer,

1. Yes, in general, nylon is not known for being slippery, however, there's quite a wide range amongst the COF of nylon strings. Gosen PowerMaster I and II , Klip Synthetic Gut 16, Volk Synth Gut, and Volkl Gripper 17, for example, are all in the poly territory for low string to string friction. Then you have nylon strings like X-One BiPhase which has a sticky, gummy outer coating, which has the highest interstring friction of any string bed on record. http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/COFreporter.php

2. If the mains are not sliding and snapping back, what this means is that you will get no additional spin from interstring movement. When strings are not sliding, open patterns, or textured string give you about the same spin potential as closed patterns. Since the ball is compressed to about 1/2 its size, and is squashed into the string bed in either case, there is 100% ball bite with both open and closed patterns. Ball bite becomes a complete non issue with regards to spin production, because it happens in either case, every time.

Quote: "One thing that immediately pops out is that if there is no string movement, then the coefficient of friction between the ball and the string does not influence over-spin much, if any, but it does if there is string movement. In the latter case, the coefficient of friction influences how much the ball will grab and move the string and, then, how much the string will grab and spin the ball during its snap-back." -- Crawford Lindsey, "String Snap Back And String http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/stringmovementPart2.php

3. Btw, if you are avoiding full poly because of arm issues, join the club, same here my brutha. Got my first ever case of TE in my 30+ years on the court using the 2012 Babolat PD last summer. The good news is that Gut mains, with poly crosses are even more slippery/spin friendly than full beds of poly and a Gut/Poly hybrid waaaay more comfortable.

-Jack

 

[jimbo333]

Hi RealPlayer,

1. I just googled where that quote from the "article" came from. It seems to be snippet from the buyers guide at an online retail competitors website. If you want to learn about racquet physics, and especially racquet power and spin production, almost everything you'd want to know is located right here in the Tennis Warehouse University. That's a much better source. The content creator, also known as the "TW Professor" is Crawford Lindsey, and he's one of the handful of peeps on the planet who makes a living researching and publishing tennis physics, and has been doing so for 20+ years.

http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/index.php
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/COF.php
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/slidingCOF.php
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/stringballfriction.php
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/stringmovementPart2.php

2. Also, the quote has some really sloppy and misleading verbiage. "... will cause the ball to travel deeper in the court", can mean lots of things and is not synonymos with racquet power, or ball velocity. That can be achieved with just a slight alteration in rebound angle, and flight path. A denser pattern will create a lower trajectory over the net given the same stroke. A more open pattern will create a higher trajectory over the net. If the player compensates for this higher trajectory by closing the racquet face, this will create more spin. If the player does not compensate, this will result in the ball traveling deeper in the court, not because the ball is going faster, but merely because it is passing higher over the net.

3. Open Patterns and spin: Yes it is true that open patterns create more ball "Bite", and for 20 years, ball bite has been synonymous with spin. That is old thinking. What we've learned since 2005 - 2008 is that low interstring friction (which promotes the mains sliding and snapping back) is far more important to spin production than ball to string friction. When the ball impacts the string bed, the ball is compressed to nearly half its original shape. When the ball is squashed into the stringbed like a bug on a windshield, there is no "more bite" or "less bite" to be had. The ball bites 100% of the time, every time. Ball bite is only important in the very last phase of the mains sliding and back, as the ball has to "re-bite" just before exiting the string bed, with that last little flick that creates the additional spin.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/01/the-new-physics-of-tennis/308339/

4. Dense Patterns and Ball Velocity: A denser pattern (at the same tension) creates a stiffer string bed. a stiffer stringbed will create diminished ball velocity because the ball compresses more. Increased ball compression means that more of the stored kinetic energy is lost. Actually, energy is never ever lost, it's just converted into things like heat, and friction, and vibration, things which are not useful for making a ball go fast.

Nutshell: Denser patterns will create a stiffer stringbed, which diminishes ball velocity slightly. More importantly, it will also create a lower trajectory over the net. Both of these things will create the senario where the ball lands shorter in the court, not further in the court. Denser patterns do offer less ball bite, but that's not what makes for spin potential in string. Ball bite is only important if the mains are sliding and snapping back.

-Jack

Brilliant post again Jack, really informative stuff!

 

[mongting]

Hi RealPlayer,

1. I just googled where that quote from the "article" came from. It seems to be snippet from the buyers guide at an online retail competitors website. If you want to learn about racquet physics, and especially racquet power and spin production, almost everything you'd want to know is located right here in the Tennis Warehouse University. That's a much better source. The content creator, also known as the "TW Professor" is Crawford Lindsey, and he's one of the handful of peeps on the planet who makes a living researching and publishing tennis physics, and has been doing so for 20+ years.

http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/index.php
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/COF.php
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/slidingCOF.php
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/stringballfriction.php
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/stringmovementPart2.php

2. Also, the quote has some really sloppy and misleading verbiage. "... will cause the ball to travel deeper in the court", can mean lots of things and is not synonymos with racquet power, or ball velocity. That can be achieved with just a slight alteration in rebound angle, and flight path. A denser pattern will create a lower trajectory over the net given the same stroke. A more open pattern will create a higher trajectory over the net. If the player compensates for this higher trajectory by closing the racquet face, this will create more spin. If the player does not compensate, this will result in the ball traveling deeper in the court, not because the ball is going faster, but merely because it is passing higher over the net.

3. Open Patterns and spin: Yes it is true that open patterns create more ball "Bite", and for 20 years, ball bite has been synonymous with spin. That is old thinking. What we've learned since 2005 - 2008 is that low interstring friction (which promotes the mains sliding and snapping back) is far more important to spin production than ball to string friction. When the ball impacts the string bed, the ball is compressed to nearly half its original shape. When the ball is squashed into the stringbed like a bug on a windshield, there is no "more bite" or "less bite" to be had. The ball bites 100% of the time, every time. Ball bite is only important in the very last phase of the mains sliding and back, as the ball has to "re-bite" just before exiting the string bed, with that last little flick that creates the additional spin.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/01/the-new-physics-of-tennis/308339/

4. Dense Patterns and Ball Velocity: A denser pattern (at the same tension) creates a stiffer string bed. a stiffer stringbed will create diminished ball velocity because the ball compresses more. Increased ball compression means that more of the stored kinetic energy is lost. Actually, energy is never ever lost, it's just converted into things like heat, and friction, and vibration, things which are not useful for making a ball go fast.

Nutshell: Denser patterns will create a stiffer stringbed, which diminishes ball velocity slightly. More importantly, it will also create a lower trajectory over the net. Both of these things will create the senario where the ball lands shorter in the court, not further in the court. Denser patterns do offer less ball bite, but that's not what makes for spin potential in string. Ball bite is only important if the mains are sliding and snapping back.

-Jack

That happens to me. I get less power with dense pattern racket. Now I know why.

 

[realplayer]

Hi RealPlayer,

1. Yes, in general, nylon is not known for being slippery, however, there's quite a wide range amongst the COF of nylon strings. Gosen PowerMaster I and II , Klip Synthetic Gut 16, Volk Synth Gut, and Volkl Gripper 17, for example, are all in the poly territory for low string to string friction. Then you have nylon strings like X-One BiPhase which has a sticky, gummy outer coating, which has the highest interstring friction of any string bed on record. http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/COFreporter.php

2. If the mains are not sliding and snapping back, what this means is that you will get no additional spin from interstring movement. When strings are not sliding, open patterns, or textured string give you about the same spin potential as closed patterns. Since the ball is compressed to about 1/2 its size, and is squashed into the string bed in either case, there is 100% ball bite with both open and closed patterns. Ball bite becomes a complete non issue with regards to spin production, because it happens in either case, every time.

Quote: "One thing that immediately pops out is that if there is no string movement, then the coefficient of friction between the ball and the string does not influence over-spin much, if any, but it does if there is string movement. In the latter case, the coefficient of friction influences how much the ball will grab and move the string and, then, how much the string will grab and spin the ball during its snap-back." -- Crawford Lindsey, "String Snap Back And String http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/stringmovementPart2.php

3. Btw, if you are avoiding full poly because of arm issues, join the club, same here my brutha. Got my first ever case of TE in my 30+ years on the court using the 2012 Babolat PD last summer. The good news is that Gut mains, with poly crosses are even more slippery/spin friendly than full beds of poly and a Gut/Poly hybrid waaaay more comfortable.

-Jack

Thanks for the informative post. I got all the answers.

 

[LeeD]

Almost EVERYONE who knows a little about tennis knows you string looser with tight pattern rackets, and tighter with lose pattern rackets.
Do you?