Desmond Kane "Andy Murray is among the five greatest tennis players of all time"

J

JRAJ1988

Guest
https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/es...mong-five-greatest-tennis-183506268--ten.html
From nearly man to the man, Andy Murray is close to scaling the summit of his sport, an achievement as special as becoming the first British man to win Wimbledon since 1936, writes Desmond Kane. Why do people who make out they're "educated" in the realms of sports make the most ignorant statements? Murray isn't even in the top ten of "all time", just nonsense. If Federer, Sampras and Nadal where sitting on thrones Murray would be the one who serves them drinks.



Andy Murray is on the verge of being Britain's first world number one.

Winning does not naturally breed popularity.

Yet sport's greatest winners have never been overly fascinated by public opinion. Not when universal approval comes from within.

It would hardly be fraternising with hyperbole to suggest Andy Murray is not the most popular tennis player in Paris this week.

That much was true during his run to the French Open final in June. That much is true during his return to the French capital for this week’s Paris Masters.

Perhaps as great if not greater than becoming the first British man since Fred Perry in 1936 to win Wimbledon three years ago. Unlike carting off a Grand Slam, attaining the world number spot rewards a consistency of performance over an extended period of time rather than just a fortnight.

No longer could the critics hit you with the line: “How can Britain’s greatest sportsman never have been number one in his sport?”

Murray has won seven titles this year, including a second Wimbledon, played in the Davis Cup semi-finals and won 53 out of his past 57 matches. It is astonishing return from the nearly man, who is about to become the man.

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Murray’s three Grand Slams between 2013-2016 are worth more than many men who carried off several more Grand Slams decades ago.

Due to sports science and the progression of athleticism in sport, it is no longer merely acceptable to be good at tennis. These days you must discover a fitness level greater than Iron Man tri-athletes taking on Kailua-Kona in Hawaii, and a mental staying power worthy of Garry Kasparov.

Replays of Rod Laver, Ken Roswall or even Murray's coach Ivan Lendl look like they are playing a different sport decades ago. Because they are.

When you analyse where you would place Murray in the list of the sport’s all-time greats, it is difficult to escape from the conclusion that he is already inside the top five of all time.

Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic, Rafael Nadal, Pete Sampras and Murray would be a top five that would prompt debate, but an entirely reasonable proposition.

It is a belief that would only be strengthened if Murray uproots 12-time Grand Slam winner Djokvoic, who many already view as the greatest, at the summit of tennis.

Murray might never win a popularity contest. There is no trophy for that. Neither is there a trophy for becoming his game's number one.

Yet for Murray the significance of such a moment should not be undersold.

Desmond Kane
 

nadalfan2013

Professional
What a horrible article. Lol andy doesn't need more haters which is what this ridiculous article will invite with open arms :rolleyes:
 

Bukmeikara

Legend
If the guy includes 2012 Murray would have 4 Slams and probably surpass Sampras on the list.

On topic. Extremely poor journalism, there is no shame not to know/understand/follow a sport but when you write this kind of nonsence, make it public and lie to people ..... this guy should be fired and never ever practice this profesion.
 

Krish872007

Talk Tennis Guru
"When you analyse where you would place Murray in the list of the sport’s all-time greats, it is difficult to escape from the conclusion that he is already inside the top five of all time."

This line alone will probably end Desmond Kane's career haha

The tone of the article suggests that Murray is a 13-time Slam winner!

(And this thread is just asking to be punished by the Murray haters)
 

Jackuar

Hall of Fame
Murray’s three Grand Slams between 2013-2016 are worth more than many men who carried off several more Grand Slams decades ago.

Due to sports science and the progression of athleticism in sport, it is no longer merely acceptable to be good at tennis

How can one even measure athleticism. Does that make Laver's CYGS less significant because current gen are more athletic as per this logic? What does the author suggest - Murray's 3 are as good as Sampras' 14? Ridiculous logic and I'm completely losing, what's the ultimate point he's trying desperately to convey.
 

Jackuar

Hall of Fame
When you analyse where you would place Murray in the list of the sport’s all-time greats, it is difficult to escape from the conclusion that he is already inside the top five of all time
I can close my eyes and pick Laver, Federer, Sampras, Rafa and Novak. I wonder who is he replacing out of these with Murray!!

Edit: And oh, I just noticed, he gave the same list without Laver. So Murray > Laver? :eek: WTH..!!
 

ABCD

Hall of Fame
I can close my eyes and pick Laver, Federer, Sampras, Rafa and Novak. I wonder who is he replacing out of these with Murray!!

Edit: And oh, I just noticed, he gave the same list without Laver. So Murray > Laver? :eek: WTH..!!

"Replays of Rod Laver, Ken Roswall or even Murray's coach Ivan Lendl look like they are playing a different sport decades ago. Because they are."
 

Jackuar

Hall of Fame
"Replays of Rod Laver, Ken Roswall or even Murray's coach Ivan Lendl look like they are playing a different sport decades ago. Because they are."

Yeah. Every single sentence From Kane there is loaded with faulty logic. They're not playing with someone 20 years ahead of their time. Of course their level of play was "different" from today's, but it wasn't "uncompetitive". For whatever era they played, they had the toughest competition available against them. If not, one might as well erase the record books and re-instate the origin of tennis as 2005.
 

Krish872007

Talk Tennis Guru
I can close my eyes and pick Laver, Federer, Sampras, Rafa and Novak. I wonder who is he replacing out of these with Murray!!

Edit: And oh, I just noticed, he gave the same list without Laver. So Murray > Laver? :eek: WTH..!!

Keep Laver aside for a minute. Federer, Sampras, Nadal, Djokovic and Agassi would work in that list.
 

Krish872007

Talk Tennis Guru
They're not playing with someone 20 years ahead of their time. Of course their level of play was "different" from today's, but it wasn't "uncompetitive". For whatever era they played, they had the toughest competition available against them. If not, one might as well erase the record books and re-instate the origin of tennis as 2005.

I'm sure that wouldn't make much difference to the many numbskulls on TTW anyway.
 

Purplemonster

Hall of Fame
Who is the idiot who wrote this article ??

Murray could just squeeze into the Top 20 of all time. Definitely No 1 at losing major finals. Easily makes the Top 5 LOAT = Loser Of All Time.
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
He's not even in the top 3 of this era, some may argue that he's even 4th (behind the Stanimal).

So assuming that Fedalovic is the top 3, who does the journo have behind Murray? Sampras? Borg? McEnroe? Lendl? Agassi?
 

ABCD

Hall of Fame
Sport is not just numbers, it is a level of play. I was a table tennis player at international level. The most successful table tennis player ever is Victor Barna, 5 times world champion between the two wars. No sane individual would say that Victor Barna is the best table tennis player ever. In that time, Fred Perry was at one point world table tennis Champion. Think about competition/field in two sports when the same person can hold both world titles. Today, Djokovic would have a problem to get a single table tennis point from me, not to mention from real players. Laver and others played at embryonic stage of tennis and they are of great historical importance. However, the level of play between Murray and Laver can't be even compared.
 

Tshooter

G.O.A.T.
Great fake name, Desmond Kane.

If I weren't already down for HRC, I'd write him in for POTUS.
 
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joekapa

Legend
He has a point to a certain degree (me ducking to avoid tomatoes).
What he is trying to say is that it is difficult to compare era's. You cannot say Laver, or even Connors would be great players in todays game as is.

The game changed from 1990 onwards SIGNIFICANTLY. More so from 2000 onwards. Even more 2010 onwards. The fitness level of players today is simply out of this world. Players in the 60's, 70's, 80's would "party" like rock stars (Ever heard of the drinking anecdote of John Newcombe and George Bush ?). McEnroe has openly admitted to partying like a rock star in the 80's.

The game has simply changed. Racket/string technology adding a lot to the game. Suffice to say that someone in the top 10-20 today, would be a top 5 player in the 70's.

This applies to all sports, mind you. Would Maradona still be as great as he was in todays game ? Pele ? I don't think so.
 
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joekapa

Legend
Sport is not just numbers, it is a level of play. I was a table tennis player at international level. The most successful table tennis player ever is Victor Barna, 5 times world champion between the two wars. No sane individual would say that Victor Barna is the best table tennis player ever. In that time, Fred Perry was at one point world table tennis Champion. Think about competition/field in two sports when the same person can hold both world titles. Today, Djokovic would have a problem to get a single table tennis point from me, not to mention from real players. Laver and others played at embryonic stage of tennis and they are of great historical importance. However, the level of play between Murray and Laver can't be even compared.
Agree totally.

Look at Olympic gymnastics in the 50's and 60's. I have neices who can do what they were doing back then.

Things have changed.

This applies to everything basically.
 

joekapa

Legend
The author makes a valid point, however most top 10's are made up of players with the basis of historic importance. Laver will always be top 3 because of this. Same as Borg and McEnroe. I have always said that Becker was a much better player than McEnroe, but he will not get his dues, because historically (apart from being the youngest to win Wimby), Becker didn't do as much for the sport.

That's why I hate this whole GOAT debate. It is non existent in my book. What matters is who would you bet on if they played today ......if you had to bet your house on it.

Murray vs Peak Laver. Murray.

Murray vs Connors. Murray.

Murray vs Borg. Murray.

It's simple really.
 

joekapa

Legend
Same argument for football. People will say Pele is the best ever. Maradona is the best, Best was better etc, etc.

For me Messi is the greatest I have ever seen, followed by Ronaldinio. The game evolved, players became better.
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
Even Wawrinka himself would laugh at the idea he's somehow above Murray t_p. It's a huge insult to Andy given everything he's achieved over the last eight years, not to mention his vastly superior consistency, for anyone to place SW in the same category.
Wawrinka's 3 Slam runs are more impressive than whatever Murray has done IMO. Wawrinka has the kind of wins Murray can only dream of.
 

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/es...mong-five-greatest-tennis-183506268--ten.html

* * *

When you analyse where you would place Murray in the list of the sport’s all-time greats, it is difficult to escape from the conclusion that he is already inside the top five of all time.

Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic, Rafael Nadal, Pete Sampras and Murray would be a top five that would prompt debate, but an entirely reasonable proposition.

It is a belief that would only be strengthened if Murray uproots 12-time Grand Slam winner Djokvoic, who many already view as the greatest, at the summit of tennis.

* * *

Desmond Kane

It's going to be even more difficult for Mr. Kane to escape from the "booby hatch" where he is being detained for observation.
 

Alien

Hall of Fame
He is not referring to accomplishments (= GSs, where obviously Murray is low) but absolute level. Given the evolution of the sport, he might be very right. In the past they played a slow motion sport that wouldnt compete these days.
 

joekapa

Legend
Any top 10 player today, would be at least top 3 in another era. Man, even Federer's prime years (the game played back then), is nothing compared to the game being played today. Look at Fed matches in 2004-2007 and the difference is evident. Post 2010 it has been a different game. Even Federer admitted this in an interview, where he said how surprised he was that younger players (referring to Nadal, Djoko, Murray etc) had trainers, dieticians, psychologists etc, and how much the game had evolved, since his prime years.

Murray's place in the history of the game is cemented in my opinion. He is the greatest number 2 ever. If the Murray we see today had been around in the 80's, even 90's, he would have 10 G.S to his name EASILY.
 

jaggy

Talk Tennis Guru
I am worried that my beloved Judy seduced this guy to get him to write it. Say it aint so, i already cannot compete with Lopez.
 

joekapa

Legend
Or Borg? Connors? McEnroe? Wilander? Becker? Edberg?

He's not 10 in the Open Era let alone all time.
The game has evolved. Any of the above players would struggle against Murray today. Have you ever watched a tennis match pre 2000 ?
 

Fedole

Semi-Pro
Wawrinka's 3 Slam runs are more impressive than whatever Murray has done IMO. Wawrinka has the kind of wins Murray can only dream of.
Peak on peak Stan bosses Andy on 3/4 slams. Some people go off consistency all year round over a longer time frame which is absolutely understandable and fair. Never seen Murray touch Stan's peak level really though (off grass).
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
Peak on peak Stan bosses Andy on 3/4 slams. Some people go off consistency all year round over a longer time frame which is absolutely understandable and fair. Never seen Murray touch Stan's peak level really though (off grass).
It's not like Murray's peak level of grass has ever been that impressive. Both Fed and Nadal owned him at Wimbledon, Roddick beat him at Wimbledon in 2009 when both were close to their primes and I'm pretty sure Djokovic would beat him too if they played in 2011/2014/2015. The field has just been very muggy on grass in the last couple of years.
 

joekapa

Legend
In absolute terms a guy like Goffin would destroy Borg? But is Goffin greater? Nope.

I've watched plenty of tennis pre 2000 thanks for asking :D

Also thanks for reminding me why you should be on my ignore list.
A bit thin skinned are we joy boy ?
 
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