Djokovic may have all the numbers but it doesn't matter

[NatF]

As a Federer and Nadal fan, I feel privileged to have watched these two growing up. Federer 2007 was probably the most complete version of himself, peak age, his technique was probably most well equipped at that time. His domination was superb, won three slams. Nadal was somehow able match this version of Federer so closely at Wimbledon. Then a year later Nadal won against a very strong Federer who had won Halle and the first six rounds dropping no sets - the pace, the speed, the hitting were beyond measure. Wimbledon 2008, 2007, Australian Open 2009 - these types of matches were truly special. We didn't realise how lucky we were at the time. We haven't seen this level of play since those days. If you look at the speed which both players were moving, when one player hits a shot out wide, the other gets to it and hits a good shot back - really an incredibly level of play.

I don't see how or when we will see this level of play again anytime soon. Djokovic is a great player but I don't think I've ever seen him play at such a level. No matter how much he wins Federer and Nadal will always be 1) and 2) for me.

I'll say this, if you are bored of these discussions then you don't realise how good this is for the sport. With these three gone, the sport will need to recoup and it could take a while.

 

[RS]

Lmao

 

[Biotic]

Yawn.

 

[Backspin1183]

Yeah, I did hear Djokovic was good too.

 

[NatF]

Yeah, I did hear Djokovic was good too.

For me, I don't think Djokovic has created an event like what these two have done, such as Wimbledon 2008.

 

[Realfan]

In my opinion, Djokovic has played at the highest level of professional tennis that I have ever witnessed in my life. I've been watching tennis since the mid 1970s. I am also a big fan of Nadal and Federer.

 

[CCPass]

For me, I don't think Djokovic has created an event like what these two have done, such as Wimbledon 2008.

40-15 x3

 

[Third Serve]

I agree, REKX.

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

40-15 x3

Federer created those, but nice try

 

[Genie Of the Bank]

For me, I don't think Djokovic has created an event like what these two have done, such as Wimbledon 2008.

RG Classics - Rafael Nadal vs Novak Djokovic - 2013 | Roland-Garros

 

[CCPass]

Federer created those, but nice try

Djokovic caused both the pain and the joy.

 

[NatF]

40-15 x3

Djokovic is a good player and will probably own the Grand Slam record. There is no one that can challenge Djokovic if he remains fit. But I don't really care, Federer and Nadal at their very best, in my opinion, were a level beyond Djokovic. I haven't seen Djokovic produce the type of shot making and pure brilliance that Federer and Nadal have done in matches like Wimbledon 2007 Wimbledon 2008 Australian Open 2009.

 

[Mediterranean Might]

For me, I don't think Djokovic has created an event like what these two have done, such as Wimbledon 2008.

I mean for me Wimb 2008 is still peak tennis, but Djokovic has been involved in plenty of epics with the two others.

Australian Open 2012 Final vs Nadal
Roland Garros 2013 Semi vs Nadal
The various matches with Djokovic vs Fed at USO and Wimbledon

 

[Biotic]

Funny way the OP describes high level of play: "when one player hits a shot out wide, the other gets to it and hits a good shot back - really an incredibly level of play.". It's exactly what Djokovic was better at than the other two (apart from Nadal on clay).

 

[RS]

Federer and Djokovic had some great matches too.

 

[CCPass]

Djokovic is a good player and will probably own the Grand Slam record. There is no one that can challenge Djokovic if he remains fit. But I don't really care, Federer and Nadal at their very best, in my opinion, were a level beyond Djokovic. I haven't seen Djokovic produce the type of shot making and pure brilliance that Federer and Nadal have done in matches like Wimbledon 2007 Wimbledon 2008 Australian Open 2009.

It’s good nobody cares if you care either.

 

[NatF]

RG Classics - Rafael Nadal vs Novak Djokovic - 2013 | Roland-Garros

This was a great match. At times in the fifth set the level of play from Nadal reminded me of Wimbledon 2008, the speed, the pace, the hitting.

 

[RS]

 

[initialize]

I agree with OP. Even though I'm clearly not a Djokovic fan (lol), I can say without bias that Roger's level between 2005 and 2011 was truly something special. I was in highschool then, and I'm 30 now.... I have yet to see someone reach that skill of tennis. Recency bias makes some people believe Djokovic is "better", but Fed's level back then was truly remarkable and awe-inspiring

 

[N01E]

Epic matches as an argument against Djokovic? What's next? Backhand or ROS?

 

[NatF]

But let us be honest, his form then was nothing at all like his 2007 form - super fast, aggressive tennis, (his game was more aesthetically pleasing then as well), he would hit winners from anywhere, perfect footwork and so much more.

 

[N01E]

 

[N01E]

 

[RS]

But let us be honest, his form then was nothing at all like his 2007 form - super fast, aggressive tennis, (his game was more aesthetically pleasing then as well), he would hit winners from anywhere, perfect footwork and so much more.

Like the good tennis?

 

[SinneGOAT]

As a Federer and Nadal fan,

 

[zagor]

This was a great match. At times in the fifth set the level of play from Nadal reminded me of Wimbledon 2008, the speed, the pace, the hitting.

spilled my drink

 

[NatF]

Like the good tennis?

I think prime Federer had the perfect hard court game.

 

[Tensky1]

27-23 / 30-28.

 

[Poisoned Slice]

 

[RS]

I think prime Federer had the perfect hard court game.

Out of 100 from both Federer and Roddick?

 

[NatF]

Out of 100 from both Federer and Roddick?

I don't know about that match. But Wimbledon 2008, Wimbledon 2007 and the Australian Open 2009 were beyond measure.

 

[RS]

 

[Whisper]

No matter how much he wins Federer and Nadal will always be 1) and 2) for me.

Good post. For me, no matter how much the big 3 win, Jelena Ostapenko will always be no.1.

 

[upchuck]

Djokovic's best level is higher than Federer and Nadal's. It's precisely why he, not them, is the most successful male player ever.

 

[NatF]

Good post. For me, no matter how much the big 3 win, Jelena Ostapenko will always be no.1.

I value the greatest of all time on quality, not just consistency.

 

[RS]

I don't know about that match. But Wimbledon 2008, Wimbledon 2007 and the Australian Open 2009 were beyond measure.

RG 2007 final?

 

[FatHead250]

Peak Djokovic beats peak Federer in straights

 

[ttwreader]

I couldn't write better than Steve Tignor about the 2021 Roland Garros Semi final between Djokovic and Nadal:

"For artistry and physicality, there’s still nothing else like it in tennis, and no has ever painted the wide canvas of Court Philippe Chatrier to such brilliant and beautiful effect as they did for three sets.

"They hit sharp-angled ground strokes that sent each skidding five feet past the doubles sidelines. They found the corners with down-the-line missiles. They brought each other to the net and sent each other scrambling back to the baseline. Nadal hooked a backhand pass from behind his body for a winner. Djokovic put up two sliding backhand lobs that dropped on the baseline. There were some points where it felt like they had just hit the 10 best shots you’d ever seen in your life. In 2013, when they were in their 20s, Nadal and Djokovic played a classic five-set semifinal on the same court. Shot for shot, this one, which was played when they’re 34 and 35, respectively, was better."

3-6, 6-3, 7-6, 6-2; 105-3: In their latest classic, Novak Djokovic dethrones Rafael Nadal at Roland Garros | Tennis.com

No two players have ever used the wide expanses of Court Philippe Chatrier to such brilliant and beautiful effect as Djokovic and Nadal did on Friday.

www.tennis.com

 

[NatF]

RG 2007 final?

People don't realise how brilliant of a clay court player Federer is/was. Between 2005 and 2009 he beat everybody except Nadal. He has massive amounts of spin in his forehand and backhand and his quick and precise footwork gave him the perfect game in the rallies to command play. Effective sliding is a key skill on clay and Federer again has excellent technique in that.

He also beat Djokovic in 2011, shows how strong his game is. He is largely over shadowed by Nadal's amazing freakish level of clay court dominance, but that doesn't mean we can't appreciate how good Federer was on clay. He was the best player on clay, after Nadal, by a massive margin.

 

[Whisper]

I value the greatest of all time on quality, not just consistency.

Exactly. That’s why I have Lew Hoad and Maureen Connolly as the greatest of all time.

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

But let us be honest, his form then was nothing at all like his 2007 form - super fast, aggressive tennis, (his game was more aesthetically pleasing then as well), he would hit winners from anywhere, perfect footwork and so much more.

GOAT level parodying aside, I'll also chime in and add that Fed played Djoker too close too many times in the latter's best years to not count in the former's favour. An already declined Fed 2MPs away from going 2-1 in slams vs imo the best ever version of Djokovic is a pretty sound achievement. The coin flip alternate-universe-small difference between what was not to be and reality isn't enough to offset the value of that for me, as binary as winning and losing might be.

 

[NatF]

Exactly. That’s why I have Lew Hoad and Maureen Connolly as the greatest of all time.

I prefer Lew II myself.

 

[Villain]

I’ll take Djokovic on consistency and 2011 Djokovic on peak quality.

 

[Third Serve]

It’s very amusing reading all of the serious reactions to this post.

 

[ND-13]

Cheeky; Good work OP

 

[ND-13]

GOAT level parodying aside, I'll also chime in and add that Fed played Djoker too close too many times in the latter's best years to not count in the former's favour. An already declined Fed 2MPs away from going 2-1 in slams vs imo the best ever version of Djokovic is a pretty sound achievement. The coin flip alternate-universe-small difference between what was not to be and reality isn't enough to offset the value of that for me, as binary as winning and losing might be.

True, Djokovic was 82-6 in 2015 and he had 3 straight set losses.

All the losses were to the same player, who was a decade from his peak play

 

[RS]

People don't realise how brilliant of a clay court player Federer is/was. Between 2005 and 2009 he beat everybody except Nadal. He has massive amounts of spin in his forehand and backhand and his quick and precise footwork gave him the perfect game in the rallies to command play. Effective sliding is a key skill on clay and Federer again has excellent technique in that.

He also beat Djokovic in 2011, shows how strong his game is. He is largely over shadowed by Nadal's amazing freakish level of clay court dominance, but that doesn't mean we can't appreciate how good Federer was on clay. He was the best player on clay, after Nadal, by a massive margin.

 

[Madinolf]

Djokovic is a good player and will probably own the Grand Slam record. There is no one that can challenge Djokovic if he remains fit. But I don't really care, Federer and Nadal at their very best, in my opinion, were a level beyond Djokovic. I haven't seen Djokovic produce the type of shot making and pure brilliance that Federer and Nadal have done in matches like Wimbledon 2007 Wimbledon 2008 Australian Open 2009.

What about 2011 AO to 2012 AO?

11-1 against Fedal in their 20s.

 

[ScentOfDefeat]

People don't realise how brilliant of a clay court player Federer is/was. Between 2005 and 2009 he beat everybody except Nadal. He has massive amounts of spin in his forehand and backhand and his quick and precise footwork gave him the perfect game in the rallies to command play. Effective sliding is a key skill on clay and Federer again has excellent technique in that.

He also beat Djokovic in 2011, shows how strong his game is. He is largely over shadowed by Nadal's amazing freakish level of clay court dominance, but that doesn't mean we can't appreciate how good Federer was on clay. He was the best player on clay, after Nadal, by a massive margin.

You have to win at least Rome to be considered a top tier clay court player.
Even Sampras won there, for crying out loud, and he was probably the worst clay-courter of the 10+ Slams group.

 

[RS]

What about 2011 AO to 2012 AO?

11-1 against Fedal in their 20s.

Was 2015 Fed at 33/34 not better than 2011/2012 Fed at 29/30?