Do NOT mess up the Asia–Pacific swing. ATP should let Saudi Arabia have the ATP Finals after Turin.

[UnforcedTerror]

This middle-east maters before the Australian Open is a total nonsense. It makes no sense whatsoever. It only messes up the calendar and players' preparations for the first slam of the season.

The Saudis should host the ATP Finals after Turin starting 2026 and that way they get their annual big title they want while the the ATP still gets to have the sweet oil money they dream about.

It's then a win for Saudis, ATP and players. Would you not agree?

 

[Razer]

ATP Finals can be handed over to Saudi Arabia and declare it as an indoor slam ... The 5th grand slam of the year -> SAUDI ARABIA OPEN

( add atp final win counts of the past players as slam title counts to their resume ......upgrade the grand slam cup and other alternate finals also to that of slams status for 20th century greats)

Upgraded Slam Counts for the players can now be

Djokovic - 24 + 6 = 30 slams
Federer - 20+6 = 26 slams
Rosewall - 23+2 = 25 Majors
Nadal - 22 + 0 = 22 slams
Laver - 19+2 = 21 Majors
Sampras - 14 + 7 = 21 slams
Ivan - 8+7 = 15 slams
Mcenroe - 7+8 = 15 slams
Borg - 11+3 = 14 slams
Emerson - 12 Majors
Becker - 6+5 = 11 slams
Connors - 8+3 = 11 slams

 

[Lauren_Girl']

ATP Finals can be handed over to Saudi Arabia and declare it as an indoor slam ... The 5th grand slam of the year -> SAUDI ARABIA OPEN

( add atp final win counts of the past players as slam title counts to their resume ......upgrade the grand slam cup and other alternate finals also to that of slams status for 20th century greats)

Upgraded Slam Counts for the players can now be

Djokovic - 24 + 6 = 30 slams
Federer - 20+6 = 26 slams
Nadal - 22 + 0 = 22 slams
Sampras - 14 + 7 = 21 slams
Ivan - 8+7 = 15 slams
Mcenroe - 7+8 = 15 slams
Borg - 11+3 = 14 slams
Laver - 11+2 = 13 slams
Becker - 6+5 = 11 slams
Connors - 8+3 = 11 slams

Any player beating the Slam record will be asterisked if they add a 5th Slam in the future. Same if they add a 10th Masters1000. Assuming Djokovic stays at 40, his successor would need 45 if he wants his record to be legit. It will screw everything. I hope this new Masters will replace one (and won't be a new one instead). Replace Miami or the Canada Open. I agree they shouuldn't mess up the Asian tournaments and they have to keep one Indoors Masters. We already have 5 outdoor HC Masters, it'll be ridiculous if they ditch Paris and replace it with a 6th in Outdoor....

 

[Razer]

Any player beating the Slam record will be asterisked if they add a 5th Slam in the future.

Just because your life revolves around Djokovic (his records) doesn't mean the world revolves around Djokovic and letting him keep records for eternity at the cost of killing the sport.

Sports Organizers will introduce a 5th Slam in the next 10 years

That is the way forward, records have to be broken. If Next gens are not as great as the Big 3 then new ways will be introduced to keep the interest of the audience intact, as a sport expands more and more prestigious tournaments will be added, Saudi Arabia's involvement means a 5th slam will come sometime in the future.

 

[L4S10s]

ATP Finals can be handed over to Saudi Arabia and declare it as an indoor slam ... The 5th grand slam of the year -> SAUDI ARABIA OPEN

( add atp final win counts of the past players as slam title counts to their resume ......upgrade the grand slam cup and other alternate finals also to that of slams status for 20th century greats)

Upgraded Slam Counts for the players can now be

Djokovic - 24 + 6 = 30 slams
Federer - 20+6 = 26 slams
Rosewall - 23+2 = 25 Majors
Nadal - 22 + 0 = 22 slams
Laver - 19+2 = 21 Majors
Sampras - 14 + 7 = 21 slams
Ivan - 8+7 = 15 slams
Mcenroe - 7+8 = 15 slams
Borg - 11+3 = 14 slams
Emerson - 12 Majors
Becker - 6+5 = 11 slams
Connors - 8+3 = 11 slams

Humbalito's worst nightmare

Soon to be Alvarez's as well

 

[Razer]

Humbalito's worst nightmare

Soon to be Alvarez's as well

Alcaraz might sneak up a win or 2 Indoors.

Too early to rule him out IMO.

 

[The Blond Blur]

Counter offer:

 

[Tennfan123]

Stans panicking at top contenders arriving at AO match fit.

 

[nolefam_2024]

I don't want Saudi to even get a masters. No tennis traditions nothing.

It's just the Oil money. I hate these countries have so much power based on their money.

 

[nolefam_2024]

 

[UnforcedTerror]

Counter offer:

How about we keep it real? They will certainly get to host a big tournament starting 2025 or 2026. So nothing is not an option.

 

[ghostofMecir]

I don't want Saudi to even get a masters. No tennis traditions nothing.

It's just the Oil money. I hate these countries have so much power based on their money.

And? Everything is based on money. We get to see the sport (those of us who watch and don’t just read UTS or whatever after a player wins) because of money.

Counter offer:

Yes, ATP and the players lose out on money for…reasons.

 

[Bartelby]

A season-opening Masters makes sense, and they have the money. Australia needs to be a gracious loser. The Saudis will do something stupid again, so Oz needs to bide its time.

 

[The Blond Blur]

And? Everything is based on money. We get to see the sport (those of us who watch and don’t just read UTS or whatever after a player wins) because of money.



Yes, ATP and the players lose out on money for…reasons.

Yeah aren’t losing out on anything They’re making money hand over fist right now. What the Saudi’s are doing with their oil money has been detrimental to sports as whole.

 

[The Blond Blur]

How about we keep it real? They will certainly get to host a big tournament starting 2025 or 2026. So nothing is not an option.

Then they can make their own event and apply to have it added to the ATP calendar. Everyone selling out to them is getting beyond old at this point.

 

[Bartelby]

The ATP is a money-making enterprise. Selling is their business and selling out is an FP judgement.

 

[Open Stance]

Between the Saudi money and the M1000s going to two weeks I think we are going to see some significant changes to the tennis calendar the next 2-4 years. Many of the current 250/500 tournaments will either go away or become irrelevant.

 

[Bartelby]

10 x 2 plus 4 x 2 = 28 leaves some room still, but maybe a new 400-level tournament, or whatever you may want to call it, rather than 250/500.

 

[Enceladus]

Just because your life revolves around Djokovic (his records) doesn't mean the world revolves around Djokovic and letting him keep records for eternity at the cost of killing the sport.

Sports Organizers will introduce a 5th Slam in the next 10 years

That is the way forward, records have to be broken. If Next gens are not as great as the Big 3 then new ways will be introduced to keep the interest of the audience intact, as a sport expands more and more prestigious tournaments will be added, Saudi Arabia's involvement means a 5th slam will come sometime in the future.

You are wrong, there will never be a 5th Grand Slam tournament. It's just a scare. The Grand Slam will not be held in a place that doesn't have a tennis tradition. The Saudis will probably have a Masters 1000 or even a WTF in the future, but no one will touch the Grand Slam line-up.

 

[Bartelby]

The Grand Slam is a copyrighted term owned by four associations under the ITF. If they got greedy and decided to include a "fifth Beatle" it could happen. But it would downgrade their product.

 

[Enceladus]

Creating the Saudi Arabia Masters a week before the AO is obviously something that insensitively disrupts the layout of the tour. With the Saudis already aiming so hard for the Masters tournament, a more suitable date should be chosen. And, of course, one existing Masters tournament should be eliminated from the 1000 category, because 9 Masters events on the Tour are just enough.

 

[Razer]

You are wrong, there will never be a 5th Grand Slam tournament. It's just a scare. The Grand Slam will not be held in a place that doesn't have a tennis tradition. The Saudis will probably have a Masters 1000 or even a WTF in the future, but no one will touch the Grand Slam line-up.

Money can buy anything.

It will happen and there is nothing wrong in it, I say it should happen.

 

[MichaelNadal]

I don't want Saudi to even get a masters. No tennis traditions nothing.

It's just the Oil money. I hate these countries have so much power based on their money.

It's really crazy lol. They get WWE now too.

 

[Lauren_Girl']

Money can buy anything.

It will happen and there is nothing wrong in it, I say it should happen.

But fair is fair. If they add a 5th Slam, X will have to win 30 Slams (assuming the current record remains 24) or more if he wants his record to be taken seriously. Common sense. Winning 24 Slams is easier if you have 5 opportunities each year.

 

[Enceladus]

Money can buy anything.

It will happen and there is nothing wrong in it, I say it should happen.

But grandslams are held in developed countries, with long-term financial stability and have a great tradition. The Saudis have profits exclusively from oil, when they run out, so all their sports projects will end, they will have other things to worry about.

And the 5th grandslam, wherever it is, will reduce the exclusivity of the majors. I don't support this move. The titles stats would have to be calculated from the start, it would be a similar divide as the start of the Open era.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Money can buy anything.

It will happen and there is nothing wrong in it, I say it should happen.

It shouldn't.

Saudi has no plan for future. Right now it's a fad of buying leagues. Tomorrow when the king doesn't want the sports anymore, he will just as quickly cancel these deals. And trust me it would happen.

 

[Razer]

But fair is fair. If they add a 5th Slam, X will have to win 30 Slams (assuming the current record remains 24) or more if he wants his record to be taken seriously. Common sense. Winning 24 Slams is easier if you have 5 opportunities each year.

New Generation of Kids don't care for that old man named Djokovic who is still dominating. For the kids Djokovic is just an old man of their parents age whom they don't need to care for. They will always prefer Alcaraz or the new champ who will win more majors or even less majors. So no,. 30 wont be required, 25 will be enough.

Don't worry, by that time you will be old, so when you tell the younger crowd of those times that Novak is better then X,Y,Z in 2045 then your view will be rejected/cancelled just like I reject the views of 50-55 years olds who praise Borg over current players, for us Big 3 are great, we don care for olden times players, same way Novak will not be cared for.

Look at the wimbledon 2023, the kids are cheering for Alcaraz, nobody taught them to go against Novak, they just don't connect with the old man.

It shouldn't.

Saudi has no plan for future. Right now it's a fad of buying leagues. Tomorrow when the king doesn't want the sports anymore, he will just as quickly cancel these deals. And trust me it would happen.

But grandslams are held in developed countries, with long-term financial stability and have a great tradition. The Saudis have profits exclusively from oil, when they run out, so all their sports projects will end, they will have other things to worry about.

And the 5th grandslam, wherever it is, will reduce the exclusivity of the majors. I don't support this move. The titles stats would have to be calculated from the start, it would be a similar divide as the start of the Open era.

Saudi is developed as well, what more development do you seek ? Their oil will last at least this century, plus it is not like they will have to cancel Tennis tournaments that are bringing them traffic and tourism. A 5th will not reduce the prestige of Slams, even if Saudi does a U Turn on Tennis in 40 years the 5th Slam could be transferred to other countries as well. See the point is, landscape around us changes a few decades, if a sport is dying then new rules will come into place, new investors will be allowed to dictate terms. Even of the day the whole world revolves around money, the legacy of a sport where people hit back balls is not more important than what the investors and the fans of any era demand.

 

[nolefam_2024]

New Generation of Kids don't care for that old man named Djokovic who is still dominating. For the kids Djokovic is just an old man of their parents age whom they don't need to care for. They will always prefer Alcaraz or the new champ who will win more majors or even less majors. So no,. 30 wont be required, 25 will be enough.

Don't worry, by that time you will be old, so when you tell the younger crowd of those times that Novak is better then X,Y,Z in 2045 then your view will be rejected/cancelled just like I reject the views of 50-55 years olds who praise Borg over current players, for us Big 3 are great, we don care for olden times players, same way Novak will not be cared for.

Look at the wimbledon 2023, the kids are cheering for Alcaraz, nobody taught them to go against Novak, they just don't connect with the old man.

Saudi is developed as well, what more development do you seek ? Their oil will last at least this century, plus it is not like they will have to cancel Tennis tournaments that are bringing them traffic and tourism. A 5th will not reduce the prestige of Slams, even if Saudi does a U Turn on Tennis in 40 years the 5th Slam could be transferred to other countries as well. See the point is, landscape around us changes a few decades, if a sport is dying then new rules will come into place, new investors will be allowed to dictate terms. Even of the day the whole world revolves around money, the legacy of a sport where people hit back balls is not more important than what the investors and the fans of any era demand.

World doesn't revolve around solely money. It revolves around powerful people.

There are many cases where Saudi has already stopped making good on its promises of salaries.

The other side of the Saudi Pro League: Clubs ordered to pay $16m to aggrieved players

The league is awash with money, but clubs have been ordered to compensate former players and Al Ahli risk a transfer ban

www.google.com

Let's face it. This country has no sports tradition or love. Without oil it's another third world country. The citizens don't have jobs, foreigners do everything. They want to shift this but no one cares. So they are looking for QUICK fixes. Quick fixes are always short term not long term.

You are from India. You know how our politicians have promoted quick fixes and failed very well. Saudi is even worse. I bet in a few years time, most of the money will dry up as they will have gotten the initial quick publicity which is all they want.

 

[ChrisRF]

Just because your life revolves around Djokovic (his records) doesn't mean the world revolves around Djokovic and letting him keep records for eternity at the cost of killing the sport.

Sports Organizers will introduce a 5th Slam in the next 10 years

That is the way forward, records have to be broken. If Next gens are not as great as the Big 3 then new ways will be introduced to keep the interest of the audience intact, as a sport expands more and more prestigious tournaments will be added, Saudi Arabia's involvement means a 5th slam will come sometime in the future.

Records have to be comparable, or the interest of the audience for those new "records" will be gone right from the beginning. And rightly so.

 

[Lauren_Girl']

New Generation of Kids don't care for that old man named Djokovic who is still dominating. For the kids Djokovic is just an old man of their parents age whom they don't need to care for. They will always prefer Alcaraz or the new champ who will win more majors or even less majors. So no,. 30 wont be required, 25 will be enough.

Don't worry, by that time you will be old, so when you tell the younger crowd of those times that Novak is better then X,Y,Z in 2045 then your view will be rejected/cancelled just like I reject the views of 50-55 years olds who praise Borg over current players, for us Big 3 are great, we don care for olden times players, same way Novak will not be cared for.

Look at the wimbledon 2023, the kids are cheering for Alcaraz, nobody taught them to go against Novak, they just don't connect with the old man.

Illogical comparison. There were 4 Slams during Borg's era. There are 4 Slams now. Djokovic has 24, Borg has 11. These 2 numbers can still be compared, but it will be different if they add a 5th Slam. The view that Borg is better can be easily cancelled now, because 24>11 and 4=4.

In women's tennis, people were still talking about Court's 24 and Graf's 22 Slams until Serena won 23. Even Graf's 377 weeks were still brought up recently when Djokovic surpassed her, even though her 377 weeks come from the 80 and 90s.... Don't worry, Djokovic's records will be talked about for ages and until someone wins 25 Slams with 4-Slams seasons, he will be remembered as the best player of all time.

What kids are you talking about?lol Alcaraz has his fans and his detractors just like Djokovic and everybody else. The 4 Slams this year beat new records of attendance. The Paris Masters just hit 175K spectators, a new record. His videos/highlights on Youtube still get more views and comments than anybody else. Even if he is old, Djokovic still fascinates and attracts a lot of people. Many tennis fans will lose interest in the sport when Djokovic retires.

 

[Razer]

Illogical comparison. There were 4 Slams during Borg's era. There are 4 Slams now. Djokovic has 24, Borg has 11. These 2 numbers can still be compared, but it will be different if they add a 5th Slam. The view that Borg is better can be easily cancelled now, because 24>11 and 4=4.

In women's tennis, people were still talking about Court's 24 and Graf's 22 Slams until Serena won 23. Even Graf's 377 weeks were still brought up recently when Djokovic surpassed her, even though her 377 weeks come from the 80 and 90s.... Don't worry, Djokovic's records will be talked about for ages and until someone wins 25 Slams with 4-Slams seasons, he will be remembered as the best player of all time.

What kids are you talking about?lol Alcaraz has his fans and his detractors just like Djokovic and everybody else. The 4 Slams this year beat new records of attendance. The Paris Masters just hit 175K spectators, a new record. His videos/highlights on Youtube still get more views and comments than anybody else. Even if he is old, Djokovic still fascinates and attracts a lot of people. Many tennis fans will lose interest in the sport when Djokovic retires.

Only 3 Slams were taken seriously during Borg's time. The Aus open was won by lot of bums in 70s and 80s because that slam was skipped freely by top players.

During Borg's time Grass and Clay were the 2 main surfaces and Grass had multiple slams and Wimbledon was the Premium Slam. In that era People were measured by number of Wimbledons, even in 80s and for a good part of the 90s winning 1 wimbledon was more prestigious than winning lets say 1 french open or maybe even 2 french opens. As the sport became more globalized all slams gain importance, the 2000s thus established all 4 slams as equal. Borg still has 11 slams on natural surfaces at age 26 while Novak struggled and won 10 slams on natural surfaces until now and mind you, 6 of these slams are won in his 30s. Lot of old timers see see Borg as a player who dominated natural surfaces with great diversity better than Djokovic did.

The landscape of Tennis is constantly changing. Future fans will reject Djokovic as well when someone goes past his slam count even via a 5 slam year. 30-40 years from the sport will be very different.

What kids are you talking about?lol Alcaraz has his fans and his detractors just like Djokovic and everybody else.

Djokovic has 0 fans among kids. I am talking about actual kids who are under 14-15. That age segment. I dont think any of them care for Novak. Do you see any child around you who does Nole, Nole Nole ? How old are you? You must be definitely 30+, right? I am speaking of your next generation, do you see them as excited for Nole as you are ? Were you excited for Borg or Agassi when you were a kid or a early teen ? That would answer it.

People as kids most of the times relate to/connect with those who are closest to them in age. Today a 12 year old has no reason to be drool over Nole. Maybe a 32 year old does, but certainly not a 12 year old.

 

[BeatlesFan]

World doesn't revolve around solely money. It revolves around powerful people.

Can you name a present-day powerful person on this planet who isn't filthy rich?

Power and money are deeply intertwined, without any exception.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Can you name a present-day powerful person on this planet who isn't filthy rich?

Power and money are deeply intertwined, without any exception.

I forgot where I was going with this sorry.