Do you run into Stallers?

[jered]

From the Hindrance thread I was looking at The Code. Noticed a section on Stalling:

40. Stalling. Stalling violates the continuous play principle of the ITF Rule of Tennis 29. A player who encounters a problem with stalling should contact an official. The following actions constitute stalling:

• Warming up longer than the allotted time;
• Playing at about one-third a player’s normal pace;
• Taking more than 90 seconds on the odd-game changeover or more
  than 2 minutes on the set break.
• Taking longer than the time authorized during a rest period;
• Starting a discussion or argument in order to rest;
• Clearing a missed first service that doesn’t need to be cleared; or
• Excessive bouncing of a ball before any serve. Stalling is subject to penalty under the Point Penalty System.

I run into players all the time who clear missed first serves that are either against the net already or off the court and continually ask me or my partner to remove a netted serve that is sitting against the net. I suspected these were stalling and distraction tactics because I like to play fast. I thought we had to accommodate the request though and last season played an unnecessarily long match that was only that long because the opposing team spent the majority of the time slowly clearing balls, asking us to clear balls, and dropping the ball on serve at least 3 or 4 times nearly every service. I timed a couple and it took over a minute and a half from getting to the service line, repeatedly bouncing the ball a whole bunch tossing and dropping it, and then actually striking it. Repeat ad naseum.

They also played at about a 1/3 of our pace (anti-pusher rule?!) but to be fair this was 3.5 and maybe their pace was just that. We stomped them 6-2 6-3 but the match lasted almost 2 hours. They took every second of changeover time. Went to the bathroom twice and never hustled to get into place for our serves. It was insane and both me and my partner came off the match feeling frustrated and bummed out even though we won. This was the worst example but I seem to run into these ball clearers a lot. How about you?

 

[gsung]

I tend to clear stray balls near the playing area on my side of the court, since I'm very paranoid about rolling my ankle and/or tripping on the ball. This can happen if I net my own serve, or if my opponent serves a fault that hits the back fence and rolls near my baseline, etc.

However, if my opponent nets their serve and it rolls on their playing side, I leave it up to them if they want to clear it or not.

 

[Chalkdust]

From the Hindrance thread I was looking at The Code. Noticed a section on Stalling:


I run into players all the time who clear missed first serves that are either against the net already or off the court and continually ask me or my partner to remove a netted serve that is sitting against the net. I suspected these were stalling and distraction tactics because I like to play fast. I thought we had to accommodate the request though and last season played an unnecessarily long match that was only that long because the opposing team spent the majority of the time slowly clearing balls, asking us to clear balls, and dropping the ball on serve at least 3 or 4 times nearly every service. I timed a couple and it took over a minute and a half from getting to the service line, repeatedly bouncing the ball a whole bunch tossing and dropping it, and then actually striking it. Repeat ad naseum.

They also played at about a 1/3 of our pace (anti-pusher rule?!) but to be fair this was 3.5 and maybe their pace was just that. We stomped them 6-2 6-3 but the match lasted almost 2 hours. They took every second of changeover time. Went to the bathroom twice and never hustled to get into place for our serves. It was insane and both me and my partner came off the match feeling frustrated and bummed out even though we won. This was the worst example but I seem to run into these ball clearers a lot. How about you?

I do sometimes run into 'slow' players, but I don't think they are stalling, I think they just like a slow pace.

Just deal with it.

The only time I would consider saying something is if the match is timeboxed, and there is an advantage to the opponents by trying to draw it out so that it does not complete. Like maybe they won the first set and would be considered the match winners if the match had to stop right now, but we are making a comeback.

But I hardly ever play timed matches, so it hasn't ever actually come up.

 

[J_R_B]

I am totally anal about clearing balls. When I was 9, I saw my uncle step on a ball and break his foot, so what you consider "needs to be cleared" and what I consider it may be very different.

 

[nyta2]

clear court, clear mind.
i always clear... else it's a potential distraction later...

 

[ChaelAZ]

Agree with the clear the court sentiments above. And I tell opponents when we start I always ask or clear balls, and I am there is no need to rush for anything. I don't waste time but I am not going to be rushing between things.

EDIT to finish about not rushing, I had a guy tell me I needed to hurry up because he wasn't going to wait for me to get ready for his serve and kept quoting "server's pace". He literally expected me to jog around to be in place for him to serve and kept saying I was wasting his time. This was years ago and a one off, but always comes to mind when folks mention things like this thread.

 

[cks]

I tend to clear stray balls near the playing area on my side of the court, since I'm very paranoid about rolling my ankle and/or tripping on the ball. This can happen if I net my own serve, or if my opponent serves a fault that hits the back fence and rolls near my baseline, etc.

However, if my opponent nets their serve and it rolls on their playing side, I leave it up to them if they want to clear it or not.

I'm very similar. I liked to pick up all stray balls on my side if I'm serving. After a bad first serve, I will leave it on court if it stays a few inches from the net. Otherwise, I will pick it up. I don't care if there are any stray balls on the other side of the court.

 

[TennisOTM]

I think "a missed first service that doesn’t need to be cleared" is really only a ball that ends up resting very close to the side/back fence or wall, or beyond. Otherwise someone can always claim that the ball has a chance to to be struck by an in-play ball (even if near the net) or stepped on during a point.

 

[jimmy8]

I don't pick up or move the ball after a missed first serve.

 

[travlerajm]

When I was younger I used to get annoyed at stallers. Now that I’m older and get tired faster, I’m a staller.

 

[Cashman]

A hell of a lot of rec players play way too fast. They don’t compose themselves after points and can go down 0-5 in a matter of minutes.

I serve and volley, which means I take more time between serves than most players. Part of this is clearing balls that wouldn’t bother a baseliner, and recovering from my last burst of anaerobic activity. But also I like to make sure I am nice and calm/focused before the next point starts, and think carefully about my placement and ball toss.

I’m not advocating wasting time, but as long as you’re not being excessive don’t let anyone hurry to get the ball in play. What happens between the points is an important part of the game too.

As long as your sets are being completed on a par with the courts around you, I think it’s okay.

 

[Ronaldo]

A hell of a lot of rec players play way too fast. They don’t compose themselves after points and can go down 0-5 in a matter of minutes.

I serve and volley, which means I take more time between serves than most players. Part of this is clearing balls that wouldn’t bother a baseliner, and recovering from my last burst of anaerobic activity. But also I like to make sure I am nice and calm/focused before the next point starts, and think carefully about my placement and ball toss.

I’m not advocating wasting time, but as long as you’re not being excessive don’t let anyone hurry to get the ball in play. What happens between the points is an important part of the game too.

As long as your sets are being completed on a par with the courts around you, I think it’s okay.

Chill out on the changeovers,

 

[jered]

If you want to clear something that is on your side of the court or behind the baseline, I agree that's reasonable. However, I get folks who are wandering to the back fence to pick up balls that aren't even directly behind the court. By wandering I mean, they are taking their sweet a** time. I also get lots of people who ask me to pick up the ball in the pic below that's on my side and are willing to fight about it. This is all league, never happens in casual play.

Also, in my example match, does anyone here actually think it's reasonable that a 6-2, 6-3 match takes 2 hours? My gut was telling me they were f*cking with us and I gotta admit, they got those 5 games partially because my partner and I were losing our minds at how slow they moved to get balls and get into place.

Does not need to picked up.

Does not need to picked up.

 

[Ronaldo]

If you want to clear something that is on your side of the court or behind the baseline, I agree that's reasonable. However, I get folks who are wandering to the back fence to pick up balls that aren't even directly behind the court. By wandering I mean, they are taking their sweet a** time. I also get lots of people who ask me to pick up the ball in the pic below that's on my side and are willing to fight about it. This is all league, never happens in casual play.

Also, in my example match, does anyone here actually think it's reasonable that a 6-2, 6-3 match takes 2 hours? My gut was telling me they were f*cking with us and I gotta admit, they got those 5 games partially because my partner and I were losing our minds at how slow they moved to get balls and get into place.

Does not need to picked up.

Does not need to picked up.

You now only have one ball left. Recall my partner/captain took 10 minutes to pick up/kick a ball which ended in a 2 hr time limit league match. 10 minute stall-a-thon. Felt bad about the win. Until the pitchers of beer flowed.

 

[jered]

You now only have one ball left. Recall my partner/captain took 10 minutes to pick up/kick a ball which ended in a 2 hr time limit league match. 10 minute stall-a-thon. Felt bad about the win. Until the pitchers of beer flowed.

Knowing the stalling rule now, I would have started taking you down the Point Penalty system. I'm usually pretty chill but 10min?! I'm claiming you defaulted the match and we win. I would take that all the way up to the league coordinator, too.

 

[Ronaldo]

Knowing the stalling rule now, I would have started taking you down the Point Penalty system. I'm usually pretty chill but 10min?! I'm claiming you defaulted the match and we win. I would take that all the way up to the league coordinator, too.

Played on another team the next year. Never let him get away or even start the shenanigans. We tied him to the tree of woe

 

[jered]

Played on another team the next year. Never let him get away or even start the shenanigans. We tied him to the tree of woe

I just don't understand wanting to win that way in recreational tennis.

 

[Rattler]

If serving after the change over, step up to the baseline and call the score, loud and clear. If they don’t start moving then you can bring up server’s pace. Just don’t be a jackass about it, it is just a game afterall

 

[Ronaldo]

I just don't understand wanting to win that way in recreational tennis.

Especially when he/we did not even make the playoffs,

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I am totally anal about clearing balls. When I was 9, I saw my uncle step on a ball and break his foot, so what you consider "needs to be cleared" and what I consider it may be very different.

It's a wonder no one rolled their ankle at the clinics I would attend: there'd be a dozen balls littered on the court and someone would lob and I'd run back trying to track the lob and avoid stepping on any of the balls. Kind of like a football player running through tires.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

A hell of a lot of rec players play way too fast. They don’t compose themselves after points and can go down 0-5 in a matter of minutes.

I serve and volley, which means I take more time between serves than most players. Part of this is clearing balls that wouldn’t bother a baseliner, and recovering from my last burst of anaerobic activity. But also I like to make sure I am nice and calm/focused before the next point starts, and think carefully about my placement and ball toss.

I’m not advocating wasting time, but as long as you’re not being excessive don’t let anyone hurry to get the ball in play. What happens between the points is an important part of the game too.

As long as your sets are being completed on a par with the courts around you, I think it’s okay.

I do the same: I use the time to clear my head. And if I don't clear the ball, the returner will pick up on this and recognize I'm probably not going to S&V.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

If you want to clear something that is on your side of the court or behind the baseline, I agree that's reasonable. However, I get folks who are wandering to the back fence to pick up balls that aren't even directly behind the court. By wandering I mean, they are taking their sweet a** time. I also get lots of people who ask me to pick up the ball in the pic below that's on my side and are willing to fight about it. This is all league, never happens in casual play.

Also, in my example match, does anyone here actually think it's reasonable that a 6-2, 6-3 match takes 2 hours? My gut was telling me they were f*cking with us and I gotta admit, they got those 5 games partially because my partner and I were losing our minds at how slow they moved to get balls and get into place.

Does not need to picked up.

Does not need to picked up.

I will often pick up the first one because a let cord during the rally could dislodge the ball.

I've never picked up the second one [it would have to be a Richter Scale 9.0 let to affect the fence].

 

[Matthew Lee]

Can't speak for anyone else but my dad would always yell at me for not picking up the ball after a first serve into the net. Unless it was right under the net and there was absolutely no chance of me slipping, I was conditioned to go and pick it up or swat it aside. Now it's become habit.

I do think it's safe to do something like this, but I'm not going to yell at my opponents if they choose not to. Maybe I'll warn them if the ball is literally by the service line or further. Usually my opponents clear the balls after a missed first serve, so I haven't really run into this type of problem at all.

 

[onehandbh]

What do you call a staller who takes a long time to add an AC to your tennis indoor tennis court?

in-staller

 

[J_R_B]

If you want to clear something that is on your side of the court or behind the baseline, I agree that's reasonable. However, I get folks who are wandering to the back fence to pick up balls that aren't even directly behind the court. By wandering I mean, they are taking their sweet a** time. I also get lots of people who ask me to pick up the ball in the pic below that's on my side and are willing to fight about it. This is all league, never happens in casual play.

Also, in my example match, does anyone here actually think it's reasonable that a 6-2, 6-3 match takes 2 hours? My gut was telling me they were f*cking with us and I gotta admit, they got those 5 games partially because my partner and I were losing our minds at how slow they moved to get balls and get into place.

Does not need to picked up.

Does not need to picked up.

I would clear both those balls, if on my side. I will never demand you clear balls on your side, though. If you want to break your own foot, more power to you.

 

[sureshs]

I have noticed that some league players occupy the #2 bathroom stall a long time and this causes a line at my club. @stringertom

 

[jered]

I would clear both those balls, if on my side. I will never demand you clear balls on your side, though. If you want to break your own foot, more power to you.

I'm trying to imagine a scenario where your foot would encounter the second ball without twisting it in any empty space between the fence and court surface. Makes no sense. I'm claiming first serve if you take too long on that second ball as it is completely unnecessary to clear.

 

[Chairman3]

Bullet #2 is most subjective, I get it if people are lolly-gagging but you get the opposite too, the guys who hurry up and play as fast as possible.

What I usually get is the guys chasing every ball when I'm serving, between points. Making sure to give me all three, I'm like "I have two, I'm good" yet they go to where ever to get it. These guys also typically give the balls to you and miss badly so you have to spend more time walking to get it.

If people don't get into service position when I am ready to serve, I keep calling out the score. Same in doubles if you get a pair that want to take extended time "strategising" or whatever they're doing.

I'm more forgiving on clearing balls UNLESS they are within 6 inches of the net or fence. I've had friends twist their ankles tripping over a ball, so I'm a tad more lenient.

 

[Radicalized]

Think Tommy Haas. I always pick up balls. Too dangerous. The wind can blow it and the next thing it's not where you thought it was. And just potential interference. Although, I move at a faster pace.
Article:
Tommy Haas loose ball injury

 

[Chalkdust]

If you want to clear something that is on your side of the court or behind the baseline, I agree that's reasonable. However, I get folks who are wandering to the back fence to pick up balls that aren't even directly behind the court. By wandering I mean, they are taking their sweet a** time. I also get lots of people who ask me to pick up the ball in the pic below that's on my side and are willing to fight about it. This is all league, never happens in casual play.

Also, in my example match, does anyone here actually think it's reasonable that a 6-2, 6-3 match takes 2 hours? My gut was telling me they were f*cking with us and I gotta admit, they got those 5 games partially because my partner and I were losing our minds at how slow they moved to get balls and get into place.

Does not need to picked up.

Does not need to picked up.

When considering these examples of ball against net and ball against fence, I think it needs to be clarified whether we are talking about picking up after a first serve missed by opponent, a first serve missed by you, or after the point is over.

If on my side, I would pick up in both cases after the point is over. I don't like having stray balls on my side at all when the point starts. And if I'm serving, I would also ask my opponents to pick up any balls on his side, since I like to have all three when I serve.

If after I miss a first serve, I would possibly pick up the first one by the net, depending on any wind, and also if I end up halfway to the net after my service motion anyway. Otherwise I would leave it. And the one by the fence I would leave in any case.

If after an opponent misses a first serve, I'd leave it up to him. If he clears the one by the net, I'm cool with that. If the clears the one by the fence I'd find it odd, but I'm not giving him a 1st serve for it, and so if he wants to disrupt his own rhythm so be it.

 

[Bambooman]

Can't speak for anyone else but my dad would always yell at me for not picking up the ball after a first serve into the net. Unless it was right under the net and there was absolutely no chance of me slipping, I was conditioned to go and pick it up or swat it aside. Now it's become habit.

I do think it's safe to do something like this, but I'm not going to yell at my opponents if they choose not to. Maybe I'll warn them if the ball is literally by the service line or further. Usually my opponents clear the balls after a missed first serve, so I haven't really run into this type of problem at all.

Your dad was also stalling. lol

 

[guanzishou]

One of the players in our tennis club always arrive about more than 1 hour late and then it will take forever for him to serve. Many of his opponents grumble when it is his turn to serve, sighing, muttering, cursing... And when he serves, the serve was weak but he always sprint forward after serve to volley, and get passed every single time. It's comical really.

 

[jered]

When considering these examples of ball against net and ball against fence, I think it needs to be clarified whether we are talking about picking up after a first serve missed by opponent, a first serve missed by you, or after the point is over.

If on my side, I would pick up in both cases after the point is over. I don't like having stray balls on my side at all when the point starts. And if I'm serving, I would also ask my opponents to pick up any balls on his side, since I like to have all three when I serve.

If after I miss a first serve, I would possibly pick up the first one by the net, depending on any wind, and also if I end up halfway to the net after my service motion anyway. Otherwise I would leave it. And the one by the fence I would leave in any case.

If after an opponent misses a first serve, I'd leave it up to him. If he clears the one by the net, I'm cool with that. If the clears the one by the fence I'd find it odd, but I'm not giving him a 1st serve for it, and so if he wants to disrupt his own rhythm so be it.

The people I'm talking about insist on 2 balls in pockets and 1 ball in play at all times and deliberately move very slowly to retrieve them from wherever they are (less than normal walking pace.) Now that I know more about the rules I'm not letting that gamesmanship slide.

 

[zaskar1]

yeah i guess i am a staller.
younger guys that i play with complain when i take more than 30 seconds between points and more than 90 seconds during the
changeovers.
i tell them, "give me a break, i am old"
when i play guys older than me, no one ever complains
z

 

[zaskar1]

yeah i guess i am a staller.
younger guys that i play with complain when i take more than 30 seconds between points and more than 90 seconds during the
changeovers.
i tell them, "give me a break, i am old"
when i play guys older than me, no one ever complains
z

of course, this is during social games, i would use a stopwatch that times to fractions of a second during league play
z

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

What happens when an irresistable force meets an immovable object?

What happens when a staller meets a rusher?

Fireworks, that's what.

 

[Ronaldo]

What happens when an irresistable force meets an immovable object?

What happens when a staller meets a rusher?

Fireworks, that's what.

Especially at a public stall. Guy couldn't hold it and fists flew

 

[AVSH]

Would you like a cookie for your troubles?

 

[Arak]

Unfortunately, since we play against other humans, inevitably we will meet all kinds of characters: moonballers, junkballers, pushers, stallers, cheaters… etc. I just deal with it as part of the game. Try not to get too frustrated and go along.

 

[Moon Shooter]

I just don’t play people unless we go about the same pace.

 

[Ronaldo]

I just don’t play people unless we go about the same pace.

No wonder no one calls to play anymore. They just cannot keep up the pace.

 

[jered]

I just don’t play people unless we go about the same pace.

No choice in league and tournament play.

 

[ktx]

I get annoyed when people have to have all 3 balls for every single point when you only need 2 balls. I don't think people are stalling though, I think it's just a habit. I am not bothered by balls in the net but it doesn't bother me when others ask to clear those. But if I am ready to serve I will be a little miffed if you walk to retrieve the 3rd ball for me every single point. Do you really consider that gamesmanship tho?

 

[bwongman]

Just played a team last night that had to return all my missed first serve balls to me right after I serve them. Sometimes my slice serve would miss out wide on the deuce court and roll past the next court and they still would walk over to get the ball and then hit it back to me or my partner before my second serve. It was pretty annoying at the time, but I didn't let it bother me too much, but my partner was getting pissed off. Do I just tell the opponents to pocket the ball after they retrieve it?

 

[Bambooman]

Just played a team last night that had to return all my missed first serve balls to me right after I serve them. Sometimes my slice serve would miss out wide on the deuce court and roll past the next court and they still would walk over to get the ball and then hit it back to me or my partner before my second serve. It was pretty annoying at the time, but I didn't let it bother me too much, but my partner was getting pissed off. Do I just tell the opponents to pocket the ball after they retrieve it?

You should only be doing hard body serves in this scenario.

 

[Cashman]

look its annoying but bodychecking them is probably overkill

 

[nyta2]

I'm trying to imagine a scenario where your foot would encounter the second ball without twisting it in any empty space between the fence and court surface. Makes no sense. I'm claiming first serve if you take too long on that second ball as it is completely unnecessary to clear.

i'd usually clear the one near the net, just to keep the court/mind clear. probably only a 1% change it will be an issue... but what about windy days - the ball will always drift? so as a general rule, i clear, so i don't have to remember, "oh it's windy, i should clear".
regarding the one of the fence, i'll clear it if it's anywhere near the adjacent court, especially next to beginners that seem to pick up any ball due to ignorance... so i will move the ball to another part of the back fence to be aligned with my court's center hash, which is now just a general habit, so again i don't have to remember, "beginner alert, get 3rd ball by the fence"... i also am particular about where i want to find the 3rd ball (eg. let serves, in between serves, etc...), i don't want to be distracted by having to "look for it", decide if it's my ball, etc..
so i guess clearing the ball is like nadal's habits with his water bottles... i am just particular about where i want or don't want the ball on my side of the court (developed over the years for various reasons)..