Donald Young vs. USTA: An American Story

jokinla

Hall of Fame
That was when GOAT players like Nadal, Fed and Djokovic were not around. Today's field is much tougher.

GOAT players weren't around in PMac's era?? Let's review shall we:

GOAT Group 1
Fed(DY era)
Sampras(PMac era)

GOAT Group 2
Nadal(DY era)
Agassi, Lendl, JMac, Connors(PMac era)

GOAT Group 3
Djoker(DY era)
Wilander, Edberg, Becker, Courier(PMac era)

Looks like you were right, no GOAT players around when PMac played.
 

jokinla

Hall of Fame
Let's be honest: Patrick did not get all of his various USTA/TV positions based on his laughable career as a singles player. His brother's history/name was the one and only key that opened the door to all of Patrick's benefits.

You said it, his career was laughable compared to some, yet still levels above DY's career. As for his positions in the USTA, you are probably correct I'm not debating that.
When people say he "only" exists because of his brother, his brother did not get him to the semis of a major, Patrick did, his brother did not get him to the quarters of another major, Patrick did, his brother did not get him to 28 in the world, Patrick did, and his brother did not win a singles championship for him, Patrick did, so to say he only exists because of his brother is laughable.
 

jokinla

Hall of Fame
at 22, he's a joke? yeah right.......btw, in regards to mcenroe, do you think he has all these jobs because he was such a great player or because he's john's brother.....

Yes DY is a joke, perhaps he can build on this US Open momentum and turn his career around, but up to this point his career is a joke, and far behind PMac in terms of accomplishments.
As for his older brother helping him out, you are probably right, but multiple people have posted this thought all day, do you have anything original to add?
 

Milan

Rookie
Let us know when Young's clueless parents (who are "coaching" him) have a better playing career than Patrick Mcenroe, since you seem to be so caught up with that and keep bringing it up.

Also, don't forget to tell Young to stop taking wildcards from the USTA since they don't do anything for him.

Tough not to take the WC's. It's like who do you blame? The Millions of Americans who took Mortgages they couldn't afford or the Banks for giving the ridiculous loans in the first place, then placing bets under the table that those Mortgages would fail (when they gave them in the first place:confused:)

Anyways, Young took WC's to try to make it. USTA was stupid for giving them. Anyways, I like the idea of WC tournaments as it eliminates bias'. Young has made many mistakes, but taking Wild Cards is something that pretty much no one turns down.

It's tough to compare Americans to the Spaniards, Argentines, South Americans in general and also Russians who are forced to go through the Challengers because their nation doesn't have a Grand Slam or Masters Event to get Wild Card's too. Furthermore, the fact they don't have GS's also means their Federation isn't nearly as rich as the USTA. It's a very complicated story. It's almost a curse of being rich.... you get spoiled spoiled kids......
 

bluetrain4

G.O.A.T.
Newly posted story about Young and the USTA on cnnsi.com. There really doesn't have to be a villain.

"NEW YORK -- The best moment in American tennis this year? You could point to Serena Williams' stirringly tearful return at Wimbledon, or the flare-up of vivid, varied talents like Sloane Stephens, Madison Keys and Jack Sock last week at the U.S. Open. Some, of course, will focus on the three Yanks still alive in the men's draw midway through the second week -- and if 22-year old Donald Young can craft a screaming upset of Andy Murray today on the grandstand at Flushing Meadows, for many the debate will stop there.

But, really, it's not even close. In April, after being told by the U.S. Tennis Association that he'd have to compete in a playoff for a wild-card into the French Open, Young dropped a Twitter-bomb that had no peer for petulance and astonishingly oblivious self-regard. "F--- USTA!" Young tweeted. "Their (sic) full of s---! They have ----ed me for the last time!"

Sometimes, gifts arrive in strange packages. This one will keep on giving to the American game for years.

Sure, it was embarrassing. Here was the USA's most gifted and underachieving prospect misspelling -- like a complete Twitt-iot -- his way into ignominy. Here was USTA development chief Patrick McEnroe humiliating Young with a breakdown of all the USTA wild cards, coaching and "significant" amounts of cash thrown his way over the last six years. Here was Young apologizing for his language but not his message, missing out on Roland Garros -- and emerging as the entitlement poster-child while coaches, family members and USTA officials frantically spitballed responses to the question seemingly sure to haunt the next decade: "Who lost Donald Young?'"

But come the U.S. Open, two things happened. Young began to win, and began to talk. "Everyone's light turns on at their own time," he said after the first round. "I'm starting to feel like mine is turning on. I wish it could have been earlier."

After the second round, he praised the USTA and thanked them for all the support, spoke of how he had needed to grow up, laughingly told how he'd played a game to 21 with Pete Sampras not even a year ago. "He beat me," Young said. "He let me know that wasn't good. Called me a little princess ..."

After his third-round win, Young admitted what coaches have said for years: That he should've trained better in the offseasons. That he needs work still. "You can always improve and never feel like you know everything, which was probably a big thing of mine," he said at his news conference Sunday. "I felt I didn't need to work as hard as other people."

Then he blurted out a Freudian slip that summed up his old mindset -- "You know, talent beats hard work when talent doesn't work hard" -- before rushing to clarify as soon as the conference ended.

"I meant, 'Hard work beats talent'," Young said.

Asked if his rogue tweet was somehow a good thing, Young smiled. "Definitely not," he said. "It's not the way it should have been done."

It was the right response, but Young is wrong. From the perspective of his parents, who are also his coaches, the blowup released years of tension, and provided a needed clarity. Young says he's open to supplementing his coaching with USTA help -- but hasn't since April. He has decided his parents are the main voices he wants to hear.

"That Twitter incident, he had to stand up for his own," said Donald Young Sr., after his son's five-set, comeback win over Stan Wawrinka last Friday. "He was fighting between his group and the outside people. He put that to bed, he apologized -- I asked him to apologize for the language, not the message -- and that's the part he was happy about. And once he came to grips with it, I said, 'That's becoming a man: When you can admit that and move on.'"

Never mind that the Youngs' message -- that the USTA has screwed him somehow -- is near-delusional; in the past year alone, Young trained for three weeks at its training site in Carson, Calif., and had a USTA-paid coach accompany him to Indian Wells (where he beat a sluggish Murray in straight sets) and Miami. Still, American tennis has a long history of paranoid geniuses, and if that's the gas Young needed to get going, so be it. Young's wins over Wawrinka and the usually tenacious Juan Ignacio Chela in New York revealed a clearly fit player willing to grind his way through long rallies. That's new.

"In the past he didn't have that belief; a lot of times he tapped out in matches and hung his head and didn't give his best effort because he knew he didn't do the work," McEnroe said Tuesday. "There's a lot of room to improve. His serve can be a lot better ... but he's using it the right way now. That's a message, also: That he believes in his game more, taking a lot off his serve, and saying, 'I'm willing to grind.' If he can make that serve a bit bigger and still have that mentality? This guy could do a lot of damage."

Mentality is the key, obviously. After McEnroe blasted him publicly, Young called every one of the USTA coaches who had worked with him over the years to apologize. "It was a good thing," said USTA director of coaching Jose Higueras of Young's tweet. "I was really impressed with the way Donald handled it, actually. He gave me a call and I said, 'I know you. I know you're a good kid; we all screw up.' And hopefully it didn't only help him, but also the young kids coming up, to understand that you have to do something to get something."

For the longest time, of course, that wasn't the USTA way. The American game's governing body had held competitions for slots on Junior Davis Cup teams, but the practice tailed off at decade's end -- just as the USTA was getting richer and fatter, and the talent pipeline was going dry. The standard for Grand Slam wild-cards then was subjective and could be political; for the five discretionary wild-cards at Flushing Meadows it was a tactic used as much to fill seats as foster young talent. In 2006, a new USTA playoff for the one U.S. wild card into the Australian and French Opens was established -- but almost instantly undermined when Sam Querrey was handed his for the '07 Australian without having to compete for it.

McEnroe took over USTA development in 2008 determined to take a harder line on what Higueras calls its "culture of entitlement." Homegrown players would still be tendered one of five wild cards in New York based on promise or past accomplishment (Young earned his Open pass based a semifinal run in Washington that included wins over No. 18 Jurgen Melzer and No. 26 Marcos Baghdatis), but those for Paris and Melbourne would have to be won on the court. Starting in 2010, the same would go for one of the U.S. Open wild card slots.

"Go out there and earn it: Everything is based around that concept, and it's pretty simple," McEnroe said while sitting behind the ESPN booth, waiting out Tuesday's rain. At that moment, his brother John walked past. "And for whatever reason we got away from that somehow, maybe because we had so many great players who did it their way and were so successful. Bringing that accountability back is really what the program is about."

Making the idea stick hadn't been easy; McEnroe heard squawking from both the Sloane Stephens and Ryan Harrison camps when the players heard they had to compete for U.S. Open slots last year. But it will be now. Young's tweet gave McEnroe the chance to set his feet and, in effect, tell his No. 1 draft pick to shut up and play. In a sport where everybody dances to the top players' tunes, that's almost unheard of. Young's self-demeaning manner at this Open will make it hard for any young American to demand special treatment. And his New York run will make it near impossible to say the hard line doesn't work.

"I've never bought into this whole idea that our kids are soft," McEnroe said. "We're soft -- the coaches and the mentors are the ones who're soft. Kids will adjust to what we tell them to do. It's up to us to set the tone and send that message across the board. Hopefully we're sending the right message: You've got to earn it."

McEnroe paused, then plunged in. You could tell he was going to enjoy saying this, and why not? It would be a first for the USTA.

"To be perfectly honest: We're not going to take any s---," he said. "That doesn't mean we're not going to work with you or listen to what people say about how we can do better. But we're not going to take any s---."

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...us.open.donald.young/index.html#ixzz1XFDlwyf7
 
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TERRASTAR18

Hall of Fame
Yes DY is a joke, perhaps he can build on this US Open momentum and turn his career around, but up to this point his career is a joke, and far behind PMac in terms of accomplishments.
As for his older brother helping him out, you are probably right, but multiple people have posted this thought all day, do you have anything original to add?

point1- again one person is beginning his career, another had a full medicore one..the wasn't to bash/praise dy, the point is pmac shouldn't talk...
point2- well most of the posters write dribble, you being a great example, so i rarely pay attention.......nd john got him the job, not helped him to get it.....see i even cleaned up your dribble.....
 

TERRASTAR18

Hall of Fame
Why don't you read some of the USTA programs and see that he is exactly right. And what does the Tea Party have to do with where the USTA spends their money for programs?

nope try again, maybe in your deluded mind they do....i suppose anything to justify your biases.....
 
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Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
I'll let him speak:

After contemplating retirement at various times, a light flicked on at the end of last year, when (Young) decided to displace himself from his base in Atlanta to Los Angeles to do an off-season training block, complete with motivational visits from Pete Sampras.

'I went down there for close to a month and hit with Pete a few times, went to the gym twice a day, tennis twice a day. I think that's only starting to pay off now. All the off-seasons before I spent at home just having fun.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/te...can-favourite-Donald-Young.html#ixzz1XBu0q6Ab

It seems that Sampras did the same solid for Young that Lendl did for Sampras!
 

heftylefty

Hall of Fame
DY has one career tournament semifinal with little else to speak of. PMac went deeper in every slam, higher in the ranks, and as you said was a doubles specialist. So to summarize, DY can't even compete with a doubles specialist's singles results. I wish I could recommend the doubles specialist route for DY, but he doesn't have a prayer of matching PMac's doubles career, so I guess he can continue to try and match his singles results, although at the rate he's going he'll need to play till he's 50.

Why don't you address what I said about, Pmac leapfrog jump to DC Captain and head of Player Development and where did all the Donald Young hype began.

Whether Young's career equals Pmac's is not the point. What is the point is USTA has not developed any players of note. Yet everyone is piling on Young for his progress and "special treatment" but no one has the stones to talk about Mac special treatment.
 

aphex

Banned
It seems that Sampras did the same solid for Young that Lendl did for Sampras!

there's only the small issue of

Sampras,Lendl>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Young
 

BeHappy

Hall of Fame
And how many do Young's parents have? Zero.

Fact is, Patrick reached the top 30 in singles in the ATP, and top 3 in doubles, including winning a Major.

So if anything, he is sure as heck a LOT more qualified to coach than Young's parents who have never done anything on the ATP or WTA as players.

Has Patrick McEnroe ever coached a junior to World No. 1?
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
You said it, his career was laughable compared to some, yet still levels above DY's career. As for his positions in the USTA, you are probably correct I'm not debating that.
When people say he "only" exists because of his brother, his brother did not get him to the semis of a major, Patrick did, his brother did not get him to the quarters of another major, Patrick did, his brother did not get him to 28 in the world, Patrick did, and his brother did not win a singles championship for him, Patrick did, so to say he only exists because of his brother is laughable.

Patrick McEnroe would have picked some other career if not for the influence of John. His entire professional life is forever tied to the history and fame of John. If John never entered professional tennis, no one would know who Patrick McEnroe is today, as he would have nothing to do with any of it.
 

jokinla

Hall of Fame
Why don't you address what I said about, Pmac leapfrog jump to DC Captain and head of Player Development and where did all the Donald Young hype began.

Whether Young's career equals Pmac's is not the point. What is the point is USTA has not developed any players of note. Yet everyone is piling on Young for his progress and "special treatment" but no one has the stones to talk about Mac special treatment.

I was discussing PMac's career and DY's career when you chimed in with, "there must be another PMac", so I had to further explain his career and how much better it was than DY's.

I haven't debated the fact that he probably had help getting his position, however as I've pointed out he had a career, than irregardless of whether JMac influenced him or not, he produced his results all by himself, JMac did not hit the winners for him, so to say he was just born into the right family, and that's to thank for everything is false. If Agassi's brother was the Davis Cup captain or head of USTA player development, then you could say he owed it all to Agassi, but PMac earned his career in tennis and that does have something to do with his careers after, even with John co-signing for him.
 

drakulie

Talk Tennis Guru
Has Patrick McEnroe ever coached a junior to World No. 1?

Nope, and I never contended that he was a good coach, much less develop anyone, nor coach anyone to #1. That said, neither have Donald Youngs parents.

To add, Patrick lead the US to a Davis Cup Victory............ meanwhile,,,,,,,, the Young parents are still blasting away at their Denny's Grand Slam Breakfasts contemplating how to request yet another wild card from the USTA to the US Open.
 

jokinla

Hall of Fame
Patrick McEnroe would have picked some other career if not for the influence of John. His entire professional life is forever tied to the history and fame of John. If John never entered professional tennis, no one would know who Patrick McEnroe is today, as he would have nothing to do with any of it.

Where your influence comes from really has nothing to do with it, we are all influenced by someone. As I said his tennis accomplishments were as a result of him hitting the winners, not John. As for nobody knowing him without his brother, he was overshadowed by John, but his results would have gotten him recognition without John, if you need proof, we all know Justin Gimelstob, and many others like him who didn't have PMac's results.
 

jokinla

Hall of Fame
point1- again one person is beginning his career, another had a full medicore one.....

DY is in year 7 of his "career", he's at least half way through his career, not at the beginning of it, and still hasn't approached the "mediocrity" that was PMac's career.
 

jokinla

Hall of Fame
What I have learned from this Thread:

Going "deeper in every slam" means 1 Quarter and 1 Semi

Well I am glad you are learning. Let me make it easier for you.

DY's best slam results:
Aussie: 2nd round
French: 1st round
Wimbledon: 1st round
US Open: 4th round

PMac's best slam results:
Aussie: Semi
French: 3rd round
Wimbledon: 2nd round
US Open: Quarters

PMac has gone deeper in every slam, plain and simple. You should follow all my posts, you will continue to learn. I can record my posts as mp3's for your ipod or podcasts, whichever you prefer.
 

heftylefty

Hall of Fame
DY is in year 7 of his "career", he's at least half way through his career, not at the beginning of it, and still hasn't approached the "mediocrity" that was PMac's career.

Young started his pro career at 15. Lets see where he'll be at in another 7. Which would be the ripe old age of 29:?
 

heftylefty

Hall of Fame
Well I am glad you are learning. Let me make it easier for you.

DY's best slam results:
Aussie: 2nd round
French: 1st round
Wimbledon: 1st round
US Open: 4th round

PMac's best slam results:
Aussie: Semi
French: 3rd round
Wimbledon: 2nd round
US Open: Quarters

PMac has goone deeper in every slam, plain and simple. You should follow all my posts, you will continue to learn. I can record my posts as mp3's for your ipod or podcasts, whichever you prefer.

Pmac got bounced in a lot of 1st matches in Slams. But Im guessing you won't list those. Try not using absolutes.
 
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jokinla

Hall of Fame
Pmac got bounced in a lot of 1st matches in Slams. But Im guessing you won't list those. Try not using absolutes.

No I wouldn't list first round losses when discussing the merits of one players career versus the other. Are you having a discussion with someone else about all of DY's first round losses, it would be a natural topic of conversation with DY as he does specialize in them. I was discussing their accomplishments, not their failures, which would be a category that DY would win.
 
No I wouldn't list first round losses when discussing the merits of one players career versus the other. Are you having a discussion with someone else about all of DY's first round losses, it would be a natural topic of conversation with DY as he does specialize in them. I was discussing their accomplishments, not their failures, which would be a category that DY would win.
lol +1 .... ouch!
 

TERRASTAR18

Hall of Fame
DY is in year 7 of his "career", he's at least half way through his career, not at the beginning of it, and still hasn't approached the "mediocrity" that was PMac's career.

he's 22, he has at least 8 years.....because you expected him to be #1 at 18,which would be his third year on tour?
 

heftylefty

Hall of Fame
he's 22, he has at least 8 years.....because you expected him to be #1 at 18,which would be his third year on tour?

In his mind Young is a failure for not winning a slam at 15.
But Haters hate...that's what they do.

And Pmac is above questions.
 

Rob_C

Hall of Fame
DY is in year 7 of his "career", he's at least half way through his career, not at the beginning of it, and still hasn't approached the "mediocrity" that was PMac's career.

Not sure why this never crossed my mind earlier, but, Harrison is in yr 4 of his pro career. At what pt did you say the WCs should have stopped again??
 

jokinla

Hall of Fame
Not sure why this never crossed my mind earlier, but, Harrison is in yr 4 of his pro career. At what pt did you say the WCs should have stopped again??

Well DY has certainly raised the bar, but if it were up to me, this would be the last year, unfortunately due to the lack of upcoming talent, I don't see who they are going to turn to, certainly Sock and Kudla are due for a couple years of help, but other than that, if the next guys are your BF and Harry, then I suppose that is where they will go, although their rankings are high enough they probably won't need them that much.
Forgot to mention Steve Johnson, he played well against Boggy, so he earned a little help.
 
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ChiefAce

Semi-Pro
I couldn't agree with Pmac and the USTA more, the reason Pmac is in charge is because of the way he handles things and because of the direction the USTA needs to go in. I attended a high performance workshop where Pmac was the key not speaker a few months ago, and not only does he conduct himself well, but he was more than open to input on developing players as well as beyond receptive to fielding questions from all of us. He also said they "don't have all the answers", and that we were all trying to help each other in this process. I couldn't agree with the message more.

I love how everyone on here has this misconception of his role in the USTA, and what he's actually doing. If the US wants to compete with the world they need a more unified approach in terms of developing players, and at this point it hasn't happened yet.

IMO the USTA should be the ones offering certification to their teaching professionals and not the USPTA and USPTR.
 

Milan

Rookie
I couldn't agree with Pmac and the USTA more, the reason Pmac is in charge is because of the way he handles things and because of the direction the USTA needs to go in. I attended a high performance workshop where Pmac was the key not speaker a few months ago, and not only does he conduct himself well, but he was more than open to input on developing players as well as beyond receptive to fielding questions from all of us. He also said they "don't have all the answers", and that we were all trying to help each other in this process. I couldn't agree with the message more.

I love how everyone on here has this misconception of his role in the USTA, and what he's actually doing. If the US wants to compete with the world they need a more unified approach in terms of developing players, and at this point it hasn't happened yet.

IMO the USTA should be the ones offering certification to their teaching professionals and not the USPTA and USPTR.

I guess you haven't woken up to reality yet. I guess you believed Bush & Obama's rhetoric too?

USTA steals players from good coaches who produced them and does not compensate them or ask for their opinion. They fire their best coaches at the BJKTC and nearly 1/2 of their coaches there learned tennis in their 30's and are very controlling in their way to the top...There's much you haven't seen from USTA, in their very real partnership with ATP, CBS, NBC, ESPN, & Nike. Their decisions are not always taken with the benefit of the players in mind.
 

r2473

G.O.A.T.
Young certainly causes a stir for some reason and everyone seems to have STRONG feelings about him.

There is no middle road with with DY. I guess you either love him or hate him.
 

heftylefty

Hall of Fame
Young certainly causes a stir for some reason and everyone seems to have STRONG feelings about him.

There is no middle road with with DY. I guess you either love him or hate him.

And that's going to make Young a pretty penny in off court deals.
 

Rob_C

Hall of Fame
Well DY has certainly raised the bar, but if it were up to me, this would be the last year, unfortunately due to the lack of upcoming talent, I don't see who they are going to turn to, certainly Sock and Kudla are due for a couple years of help, but other than that, if the next guys are your BF and Harry, then I suppose that is where they will go, although their rankings are high enough they probably won't need them that much.
Forgot to mention Steve Johnson, he played well against Boggy, so he earned a little help.

DY is up to 57 I think & the majority of his pts are from Washington & the US Open so they wont fall off till next yr. So, he'll be MD in all of the slams next yr. Not high enough for the Masters Series tho, so he'll have to go thru qualies or get WCs. Since he might be high enough for the American 250s & 500s the WCs into those tourneys might go to some other players and the WCs into the Masters Series might go to the DYs & Harrisons.

As far as I know, Johnson is going back to school, maybe Spring semester tho, so he can play the fall US Challengers & get some WCs in those.

Was your answer that this should be the last yr for Harrison?? Or DY?? Or both??

Edit: Since IW & Miami are 96 draws they should both get into those two. Not Cinci however. So, we can both revisit this to see who gets in. I'd say Johnson is def in IW.
 
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