Dropping the racquet head on serve

[SystemicAnomaly]

It is hard to throw a racket up without getting the drop. The goal of the drill is to get you used to the motion of the drop without having the distraction of trying to hit a ball.

If you have a used racket and a safe place to throw it, it is worth trying.

Great explanation. If one attempts to throw a racket at shallow angle, perhaps 45 degrees or less, it is possible to do so w/o a decent racket drop. However if the launch angle is steep, say 75 degrees or more, it is difficult to do so w/o a decent/deep racket head drop.

 

[Roberto_spin]

Not sure how throwing a racquet into the air is going to magically cure anything??? Also, I can easily do the sock drill over and over, but I doesn't change anything on my actual serve.

The sock drill is about rhythm and fluidity (no hitch)
So, this is not your challenge... The racketdrop and proper pronation may be your challenge improve?

 

[toly]

Camila Giorgi elegant racquet drop

 

[Roberto_spin]

Camila Giorgi elegant racquet drop

I prefer miss Gorgeous racquetdrop :roll::roll::roll:

 

[toly]

I prefer miss Gorgious racquetdrop ::roll:

Here she is with 125.5mph serve.

 

[vintagefan]

Stay loose, toss the ball just high enough so the racquet will hit it at the apex of the serving motion and keep it simple. The rest will fall into place.

Pancho Gonzales

 

[Roberto_spin]

Here she is with 125.5mph serve.

Don't you just love those anatomical perfectness?

oh yeah after the Williams sisters the fastest serve evan... All because of her gorgeous racket drop and counterbalancing :shock: So now we're on topic again

 

[Chas Tennis]

Stay loose, toss the ball just high enough so the racquet will hit it at the apex of the serving motion and keep it simple. The rest will fall into place.

Pancho Gonzales

That is a very nice video of Gonzales.

This issue causes general misinterpretation when viewing videos of tennis strokes, especially of the serve. 2D videos of the service motion - which has a lot of 3D motion - can be deceptive. The camera shows 2D very well (up-down and side-to-side components in the frame) but the dimension into and out of the frame is not well shown, somewhat hidden. The stroke looks as if he is hitting over his head at full reach. But there is always an angle between the arm and racket, say 25°, at impact. Also, the arm may be at a slight angle to the vertical. The camera view from behind is the best for showing the critical arm-racket angle at impact and the video must be high speed.

Typical serve as viewed from behind. At impact, the racket is at an angle to the arm and the arm is not perfectly vertical. See also similar videos taken from behind the server.

https://vimeo.com/27528701

Pancho Gonzales's serve, mostly from the front. Stop on impact at 0:04 sec to see Gonzales's arm-racket angle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyhFo3hvGPI

This long and interesting video on Pancho Gonzales starts with a close-up of his famous serve. You can't see impact but the internal shoulder rotation (axial upper arm rotation) is clearly seen in this high speed closeup.

The racket has to be at an angle to the arm for the serve so that ISR can produce racket head speed.

(Internal shoulder rotation is most often mislabeled in tennis discussions as 'pronation'.)

References on the arm-racket angle.
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=361610
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=370729&highlight=pronation+physics+science

 

[Power Player]

Yep and once again, all that detail can be condensed down into the video posted here earlier. The drill he shows you will fix the racquet drop issue and you can move on to focusing on a consistent toss and motion.

If you sit and think about ISR and racquet angle, you will never have a fluid serve. You have to find drills that teach you all of that without thinking about it, and the video by Florian Meyer does just that.

 

[dknotty]

This the type of thinking that will kill your motion. I have been down that road. Don't think about that at all.

Focus on taking the racquet back from the start of the serve like you are combing the racquet face backwards over your head. The link I was talking about has a drill that shows how to do this.

It will fix the racquet drop. I spent an hour today on it, and it fixed mine. My serves were far cleaner and consistent. Tons of easy power. I simply have to practice my serve a lot to groove it in, and it's done.

That was my "serve killer" and sounds like it may be yours as well.

I have been working on this, with the help of a coach. Part way there but not all the way. I now have a racket drop but the question is, the racket drop images I've seen are different.

This one the racket face faces the net:

This one faces the left side net pillar:

Here the racket face is perpendicular to the net

This one the racket is faced upwards:

Which is correct?

 

[Power Player]

The correct one is the one that works for you. The goal is that your arm should feel like a whip. Real loose.

What gets people messed up is worrying about the face orientation and little nuances. You should be swinging with the edge of the frame up to the ball. The goal is to get the frame moving and never stopping. Personally, I like that motion on the first GIF you showed.

You will know when your are doing it right because your shoulder muscle will feel a little sore at first, but it will be in a good way - like you worked out with light weights.

There should be no pain or loss of fluidity once the motion starts.

If you do it like Florian Meyer shows, you can pause your trophy pose will naturally be correct. The funny thing is that you will realize that the trophy pose is simply a snapshot in time, and not a pause or hitch.

This is why still pics can actually mess people up and give them the wrong impression of what they should be doing on strokes.

Look how many people here think you have to close the racquet face at an extreme angle on the forehand because of some still shot they have seen.

 

[dknotty]

The correct one is the one that works for you. The goal is that your arm should feel like a whip. Real loose.

What gets people messed up is worrying about the face orientation and little nuances. You should be swinging with the edge of the frame up to the ball. The goal is to get the frame moving and never stopping. Personally, I like that motion on the first GIF you showed.

You will know when your are doing it right because your shoulder muscle will feel a little sore at first, but it will be in a good way - like you worked out with light weights.

There should be no pain or loss of fluidity once the motion starts.

If you do it like Florian Meyer shows, you can pause your trophy pose will naturally be correct. The funny thing is that you will realize that the trophy pose is simply a snapshot in time, and not a pause or hitch.

This is why still pics can actually mess people up and give them the wrong impression of what they should be doing on strokes.

Look how many people here think you have to close the racquet face at an extreme angle on the forehand because of some still shot they have seen.

Thanks - that makes sense. I totally get that images can aren't totally representative, the're a snapshot of a position along a curve.

 

[Chas Tennis]

...................................................................................
You will know when your are doing it right because your shoulder muscle will feel a little sore at first, but it will be in a good way - like you worked out with light weights.
.........................................

Which shoulder muscle(s)? Do you know the reason why one (some) of the shoulder muscles would feel sore?

 

[Power Player]

Which shoulder muscle(s)? Do you know the reason why one (some) of the shoulder muscles would feel sore?

I was arming the serve more before. Now I don't.

It's a very light soreness. Gone the next day and probably 20 minutes after i was finished.

 

[Chas Tennis]

I was arming the serve more before. Now I don't.

It's a very light soreness. Gone the next day and probably 20 minutes after i was finished.

I'm getting mixed up. Do you get sore when you are 'doing it right' or when you are arming it?

 

[Power Player]

I'm getting mixed up. Do you get sore when you are 'doing it right' or when you are arming it?

Read my posts again, it's not confusing at all. Are you patronizing me or genuinely asking questions?

 

[bad_call]

I'm getting mixed up. Do you get sore when you are 'doing it right' or when you are arming it?

yes...those 5 hr hitting/match play sessions seem to make everything sore.

 

[Power Player]

Yeah and really he is making a big deal out of nothing. It is not a bad pain, a sore arm or anything that would cause alarm. It simply me using the right muscles to serve every time instead of inconsistently like before.

Badcall knows my serve. He has seen me hit bombs and than lose the form and revert back to arming it.

 

[toly]

I have been working on this, with the help of a coach. Part way there but not all the way. I now have a racket drop but the question is, the racket drop images I've seen are different.

Which is correct?

Watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM7UqM5Ci0U

 

[toly]

Sam Stosur competent racquet drop

 

[Chas Tennis]

Racket drop and also supination from these motions-

1) Vertically - Up-down direction not too clear from this view - her legs are thrusting upward causing the shoulder to rise. Probably leg thrust was very early in the pictures or maybe the feet left the ground before the first picture. ? Big driver for racket drop?
2) Horizontally - Her chest is rotating. Trunk rotation? (Biggest driver for supination. ?)
3) Vertically - Her hitting shoulder is rising as the other falls. Trunk lateral flexion? Big driver for racket drop? Is that what Elliott calls 'cartwheeling' in the service motion?

Between the last two pictures on the right, crude estimates -
1) the hand goes forward roughly 1 unit and the racket head goes forward roughly 4 units.
2) the hand goes to her right maybe 3/4 unit? - the hand is not only moving in the direction toward the target but significantly out to the right. Referenced hand to her head. Similar to your Frank Salazar overhead pictures.

From the motion blur the serve was probably directed down the T. ?

 

[akamc]

Nice composite of stosur's serve, Toly.

 

[toly]

Racket drop and also supination from these motions-

1) Vertically - Up-down direction not too clear from this view - her legs are thrusting upward causing the shoulder to rise. Probably leg thrust was very early in the pictures or maybe the feet left the ground before the first picture. ? Big driver for racket drop?
2) Horizontally - Her chest is rotating. Trunk rotation? (Biggest driver for supination. ?)
3) Vertically - Her hitting shoulder is rising as the other falls. Trunk lateral flexion? Big driver for racket drop? Is that what Elliott calls 'cartwheeling' in the service motion?

Between the last two pictures on the right, crude estimates -
1) the hand goes forward roughly 1 unit and the racket head goes forward roughly 4 units.
2) the hand goes to her right maybe 3/4 unit? - the hand is not only moving in the direction toward the target but significantly out to the right. Referenced hand to her head. Similar to your Frank Salazar overhead pictures.

From the motion blur the serve was probably directed down the T. ?

There are too many questions. Maybe this picture is better and can clarify something?

Nice composite of stosur's serve, Toly.

Thank you.

 

[Chas Tennis]

Racket Head Dropping Back Around #3 & 4

....................... Maybe this picture is better and can clarify something?

1) Her foot does not move and appears in contact with the ground to #3 or maybe #4. Her legs appear to be finished thrusting by about #4. Her racket is dropping back to a greater angle to the forearm around #3 & #4.

2) From #1 ending #3, she has her forearm and racket approximately in a line so that the moment of inertia is high and, therefore, when her legs thrust up raising her body and shoulder, the racket-forearm will turn down externally rotating the shoulder - and stretching her internal shoulder rotator muscles. See reply #35 and the links to another thread with Jay Berger comments. She has her upper arm (humerus) approximately in line with her shoulders throughout (as best can be seen) as described in the Ellenbecker video.

3) In #5 (with her feet off the ground) she has started some chest motion. The racket is really dropped down there.

4) Between #4 & #8 she is straightening (#4-6) and turning her torso (#7-8 ).

5) Between #5 & 7 there is significant supination.

6) Impact was before #9.

6) In #7 I measure her hand at 10, 0 where 10 is the distance from the center mark to her hand over the baseline, 0 is on the baseline. In #9, I measure her hand at 15, 20. On my computer screen her hand moved in the direction of the baseline 5 units and forward, 20 units. Angle of hand path about 76° to baseline. (I think Frank Salazar's hand path is more to the side. ?)

The frame rate is not high speed video. The videos show locations of objects. Keep in mind that the muscles may first supply forces well before the body parts have had time to move very much, etc..

 

[Power Player]

Roughly pics 1-9 are the spots in a serve where your mind should be very clear. The finish is going to be a result of the spin you put on the ball.

That is why IMO, the motion you study to get into the racquet drop, plus having a good consistent toss is really the key to executing in a similar manner to the pics posted.

If you sit there and try and copy what is happening on her serve in this series of pics, you are going to have a bad time.

 

[Chas Tennis]

Roughly pics 1-9 are the spots in a serve where your mind should be very clear. The finish is going to be a result of the spin you put on the ball.

That is why IMO, the motion you study to get into the racquet drop, plus having a good consistent toss is really the key to executing in a similar manner to the pics posted.

If you sit there and try and copy what is happening on her serve in this series of pics, you are going to have a bad time.

I agree completely with the clear mind, as you say. But that would be after the service motion has been trained. It is too fast to think it through in any sort of sequence - the racket goes from behind to forward to strike the ball in 20 milliseconds. And I agree that you just have to do it, move, fluidly. But what motion?

For myself and the other club players at my club, that I have taken high speed video of, I see so many flaws with just doing it without enough understanding. I no longer want to practice without knowing what is going on in much better detail. Some club players in my Vimeo videos below.

Do you use high speed video?

The OP wanted to know about the racket drop. Some interesting points of the timing and the biomechanical reason for the racket drop for the tennis serve were explained in detail above. The stretch-shortening cycle is critical.

Central to the whole issue is that internal shoulder rotation plays a central part in the serve. If someone relaxes and watches the serve videos for a few minutes they will see - by the the sudden arm rotation that drives the serve - the motion that is in all high level serves.
https://vimeo.com/user6237669/videos

The videos play in slow motion but it is still very easy to entirely miss the elbow axial rotation because it lasts only about 1/4 second in the slow motion video!

I practiced serving for 30 years and it was not the right motion............

 

[toly]

1) Her foot does not move and appears in contact with the ground to #3 or maybe #4. Her legs appear to be finished thrusting by about #4. Her racket is dropping back to a greater angle to the forearm around #3 & #4.

2) From #1 ending #3, She has her forearm and racket approximately in a line so that the moment of inertia is high and when her legs thrust up raising her body and shoulder the racket-forearm will turn down externally rotating the shoulder - and stretching her internal shoulder rotator muscles. See reply #35 and the links to another thread - Jay Berger comments. She has her upper arm approximately in line with her shoulders throughout (as best can be seen) as described in the Ellenbecker video.

3) In #5 (with her feet are off the ground) she has started some chest motion. The racket is really dropped down there.

4) Between #4 & #8 she is straightening (#4-6) and turning her torso (#7-8 ).

5) Between #5 & 7 there is significant supination.

6) Impact was before #9.

6) In #7 I measure her hand at 10, 0 where 10 is the distance from the center mark to her hand over the baseline, 0 is on the baseline. In #9 I measure her hand at 15, 20. On my computer screen her hand moved in the direction of the baseline 5 units and forward, 20 units. Angle of hand path about 76° to baseline. (I think Frank Salazar's hand path is more to the side. ?)

The frame rate is not high speed video. The videos show locations of objects. Keep in mind that the muscles may supply forces well before the body parts have had time to move very much, etc..

Good analysis, thanks.
Is this semiwestern backhand grip (unbelievable)?

And she is serving in ad court!!!???

 

[Power Player]

I agree completely with the clear mind, as you say. But that would be after the service motion has been trained. It is too fast to think it through in any sort of sequence - the racket goes from behind to forward to strike the ball in 20 milliseconds. And I agree that you just have to do it, move, fluidly. But what motion?

For myself and the other club players at my club, that I have taken high speed video of, I see so many flaws with just doing it without enough understanding. I no longer want to practice without knowing what is going on in much better detail. Some club players in my Vimeo videos below.

Do you use high speed video?

The OP wanted to know about the racket drop. Some interesting points of the timing and the biomechanical reason for the racket drop for the tennis serve were explained in detail above. The stretch-shortening cycle is critical.

Central to the whole issue is that internal shoulder rotation plays a central part in the serve. If someone relaxes and watches the serve videos for a few minutes they will see - by the the sudden arm rotation that drives the serve - the motion that is in the high level serves.
https://vimeo.com/user6237669/videos

The videos play in slow motion but it is still very easy to entirely miss the elbow axial rotation because it lasts only about 1/4 second in the slow motion video!

I practiced serving for 30 years and it was not the right motion............

Right, my point is that the motion starts with the video I have been talking about. If you do what he says in the video you naturally will have a proper racquet drop. I know this because my main issue besides my toss was this.

If you look at Stosur, notice how her racquet is properly behind her in the first pic. That is the key. To get there, you do the drill in the video where you start with the racquet held up high and out like on an abbreviated takeback.
If you do that drill properly, you naturally will get to the point of the racquet dropping without having to think about it.

I also have the proper shoulder rotation now. That is verified by the feeling of serving with a loose arm.

I can tell you that the power levels on serve are very high now. My best serve was 5 feet up the back fence.

Playing so many sports in my life, I believe in simplifying things. It allows you to get consistent. The only thing I do now on my second serve is make my grip a little more eastern and finish more out to the side.

I do not use high speed video, but that would be cool to see. I prefer that to seeing someone else's. My main goal is to get my serve back to the weapon it was when I was a junior because I don't lose too much when my serve is going in as opposed to when it isnt.


A good example of not thinking too much is my forehand. I used to think about the same stuff..is my buttcap pointed at the ball..etc. Well I filmed myself and it naturally was doing that. When I was thinking about it, it was not a proper motion. The key to all of that is good technique which comes from being loose and flowing.

 

[Chas Tennis]

I had searched for the video that you mentioned and did not find a link or the name on the internet (or maybe I had to sign up which I resist doing). Do you have a link?

High on my priority list is to loosen up and stop thinking - my final goal also - but I'm waiting until my motion looks OK in high speed videos. I guess I want to see check points happening in the videos first.

I just got a Canon Powerpoint 110 HS to see how well a low cost high speed video camera with automatic shutter control would work for tennis. It was $119, refurbished from Canon. It does a very good job showing the body's service motion. The ball and racket have some motion blur. 90% of the stroke information is there in high speed. Some examples on my Vimeo site. (I had to video from outside the fence during a match. I have since realized that up close the shutter would have been faster resulting in less motion blur.)

 

[Power Player]

I think you are doing it the wrong way. Way too much analysis and thought is the killer. You will know when your serve is good because it will go in a lot and feel loose. Waiting for the motion to look good in high speed videos makes no sense. If you are loose, it WILL look good in video.

Here is the link. We posted it in this thread.

http://www.theserveblueprint.com/fe/...mate-serve-fix

EDIT : I just checked and now it does not work. That stinks. He must have made it a pay video since last week.

The way he shows you how to hit nice and loose with a good drop is so easy and basic though.

The main takeaway is that you want to have the racquet come back over your head like you are combing your hair back with the racquet face. That is how you will get into the proper racquet drop.

 

[Tight Lines]

I think you are doing it the wrong way. Way too much analysis and thought is the killer. You will know when your serve is good because it will go in a lot and feel loose. Waiting for the motion to look good in high speed videos makes no sense. If you are loose, it WILL look good in video.

Here is the link. We posted it in this thread.

http://www.theserveblueprint.com/fe/...mate-serve-fix

EDIT : I just checked and now it does not work. That stinks. He must have made it a pay video since last week.

The way he shows you how to hit nice and loose with a good drop is so easy and basic though.

The main takeaway is that you want to have the racquet come back over your head like you are combing your hair back with the racquet face. That is how you will get into the proper racquet drop.

The video is still there.

http://www.theserveblueprint.com/fe/54480-video-3-the-ultimate-serve-fix

Harry

 

[Power Player]

^^^^^^

Nice, thanks!

 

[JackB1]

Is it me, but I just don't see how looking at a bunch of slow mo photos of a Pro will somehow help me with my racquet drop?

 

[Power Player]

Is it me, but I just don't see how looking at a bunch of slow mo photos of a Pro will somehow help me with my racquet drop?

Agree. It's what I have been saying. It will not do anything for you, except cause to much over-thinking - UNLESS you can get the same camera angle of you in slow mo and sync it up to see the differences. That could be cool..or also nearly pointless because a serve is pretty unique.

Even then, it's better to do the drills in the video above.

 

[JackB1]

Agree. It's what I have been saying. It will not do anything for you, e. ept cause to much over-thinking - UNLESS you can get the same camera angle of you in slow mo and sync it up to see the differences. That could be cool..or also nearly pointless because a serve is pretty unique.

Even then, it's better to do the drills in the video above.

I have been doing those drills and also some from the video posted in my thread about racquet drop. I don't think its as easy for some of us as others make it sound. I also try serving with my racquet starting in the drop position and it feels strange to me.

 

[Power Player]

Its not easy at all, but as long as you are doing it right it will click with practice. Serving is very difficult.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Is it me, but I just don't see how looking at a bunch of slow mo photos of a Pro will somehow help me with my racquet drop?

It has to do with the way the brain works. You do not really even need to consciously analyze the images and the slow-mo videos. The sub-conscious mind will pick up quite a bit and help to develop muscle memory. Powerful stuff. This is the kind of stuff that nocturnal dreams are made of.

 

[dknotty]

It has to do with the way the brain works. You do not really even need to consciously analyze the images and the slow-mo videos. The sub-conscious mind will pick up quite a bit and help to develop muscle memory. Powerful stuff. This is the kind of stuff that nocturnal dreams are made of.

I can atest to this, simply watching videos of tennis helps my game.

 

[taurussable]

Thanks for sharing this link. Since it is an unlisted video, it (and the others) cannot be found with a simple search on Youtube or Google. I assume that Will Hamilton is ok with your posting of the link (since it advertises his Rafter Serving System series).

The racket throwing in the park that he presents about 2.5 minutes in (~2:30), is very helpful for developing a decent racket head drop. I have been using this very idea with my students for the past 7 years or so.

I have watched one of his other Serve Killer videos, #11. Apparently he has increased the number of Serve Killer videos from 10 up to 12 (or more?). From the 2 that I have watched, I have been able to glean a partial list:

Server Killer #03 - inconsistent ball toss
Server Killer #04 - incorrect backswing
Server Killer #05 - waiter's tray error
Server Killer #06 - improper/insufficient racket drop
Server Killer #07 -
Server Killer #08 - incorrect wrist/racket postion at impact
Server Killer #09 -
Server Killer #10 -
Server Killer #11 - mental clutter (too many "swing" thoughts)
Server Killer #12 -

You can determine your primary (or another) Serve Killer with the following link:
http://www.fuzzyyellowballs.com/survey.html?hop=archibot

anyone has link for those?
Server Killer #05 - waiter's tray error
Server Killer #06 - improper/insufficient racket drop
Server Killer #08 - incorrect wrist/racket postion at impact

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

I can still see free access to: #3, #6, #10, #11

Do not know if there are any sneak previews of the others. The Survey link that I provided for determining your own serve killer is no longer accessible. If you really want access to #5, #8 as well as the other 11 serve killer videos and the original Rafter Serve System, you will probably need to break down and shell out the $47 for the whole package (includes bonus content):

http://www.rafterservesystem.com/sp/23220-the-rafter-serve-system
.

 

[Attila_the_gorilla]

I've bought that "package". Not much to it really, the most important piece of info I got from it was the importance of the wrist snap for power. As opposed to just a natural pronation.

That bloke Will, I'm sure he means well, but he's a real pain to listen to, he's so awkward in an unscripted environment.

Rafter is a class act.

 

[taurussable]

I've bought that "package". Not much to it really, the most important piece of info I got from it was the importance of the wrist snap for power. As opposed to just a natural pronation.

That bloke Will, I'm sure he means well, but he's a real pain to listen to, he's so awkward in an unscripted environment.

Rafter is a class act.

here is a video busting myth of wrist snap..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcwiAv_a7TQ

Is it really a good/healthy thing to snap your wrist(flexion)?

 

[Chas Tennis]

here is a video busting myth of wrist snap..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcwiAv_a7TQ

Is it really a good/healthy thing to snap your wrist(flexion)?

The video is excellent until Ian mentions 'pronation' at the end. Before that the discussion of the wrist is very clear and uses the proper terms.

But the wrist is turned by both pronation and internal shoulder rotation when the arm is straight as has been discussed on the forum many times.

Any instruction on the tennis serve that does not explain internal shoulder rotation is simply missing the point. That includes nearly all current instructional videos. Ian's description at the video's end needs to get up to speed with ISR.

 

[Chas Tennis]

An old issue

Some biomechanical researchers in the 70s and 80s showed that what they had learned for badminton also applied to tennis.

FYI

I recently got a copy of Badminton, 4th edition, (1996) by James Poole and Jon Poole.

Poole's work was referred to in an earlier reply by SystemicAnomaly.

Poole referred to work by David Waddel and Barbara Gowitzke using high speed cameras to analyze badminton smashes.

[Badminton serves are not overhead. In badminton, the serve must be hit with the racket head below the waist. However, forehand "smashes" and "clears" are very commonly used and these correspond closely to the tennis serve.]

I found these interesting conference presentations that bear on pronation, internal shoulder rotation and tennis. Wadell & Gowitze used high speed film cameras to analyze strokes.

1) Myths and Realities in Badminton and Tennis (1985). D. Waddel & B. Gowitzke
https://ojs.ub.uni-konstanz.de/cpa/article/view/1441

The information is presented by stating a myth and then - in parenthesis - showing the findings of Wadell and Gowitzke

Here's the one that bears on pronation and internal shoulder rotation on the serve

"7. A major source of power is gained from the "wrist snap". (The popular concept of "wrist snap" is found in most badminton and tennis instruction manuals and refers to the method in which a player gains additional power in a forehand clear or smash or in (?, copy not legible) tennis "cannonball-type tennis serve. A recognition of what is truly happening anatomically (found in only a few references) is that the forearm is turning and, equally important, the upper arm is turning. The biomechanical terms for these actions in forehand strokes are pronation in the radio-ulnar joints and medial rotation in the shoulder joint. ................)"

[medial rotation is a term used in some countries for internal shoulder rotation]

In conference-
3rd International Symposium on Biomechanics in Sports (1985)
https://ojs.ub.uni-konstanz.de/cpa/issue/view/ISBS1985

Summary in 2000 of the badminton research of Wadell and Gowitzke
2) BIOMECHANICAL PRINCIPLES APPLIED TO BADMINTON POWER STROKES
https://ojs.ub.uni-konstanz.de/cpa/article/view/2233

In conference-
18th International Symposium on Biomechanics and Sports (2000)
https://ojs.ub.uni-konstanz.de/cpa/issue/view/ISBS2000

In the late '80s, I can clearly remember reading of pronation, which I correctly interpreted as an elbow-forearm rotation, and attempting to improve my serve by practicing it. I wish that I had known............

Jim McLennan references Wadell & Gowitzke
http://www.essentialtennisinstruction.com/bts/coursework/badminton.html

 

[sureshs]

Is it me, but I just don't see how looking at a bunch of slow mo photos of a Pro will somehow help me with my racquet drop?

Why won't it help you?

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

I can still see free access to: #3, #6, #10, #11

Do not know if there are any sneak previews of the others. The Survey link that I provided for determining your own serve killer is no longer accessible. If you really want access to #5, #8 as well as the other 11 serve killer videos and the original Rafter Serve System, you will probably need to break down and shell out the $47 for the whole package (includes bonus content):

http://www.rafterservesystem.com/sp/23220-the-rafter-serve-system

Looks like all this might go away later today.

 

[Attila_the_gorilla]

here is a video busting myth of wrist snap..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcwiAv_a7TQ

Is it really a good/healthy thing to snap your wrist(flexion)?

I've seen that video before.
In those videos, Roger clearly uses wrist snap, like all quality servers do.
And no, this is not the same as bending the wrist forward/downward, cos that would make no sense.

As you go up toward contact, your wrist is laid back. As you make contact, you snap the wrist diagonally, out to the side as you pronate. This is the final element of the kinetic chain and where a lot of the racket speed comes from.

 

[Chas Tennis]

This is a little speculation but I believe that muscles of the forearm don't supply much force leading up to impact. I believe that the internal shoulder rotation that is rotating the entire arm will also cause the wrist to go through its joint motions on the way up to impact and a little past while relaxed or possibly with some of the forearm muscles held the same length.

This phase of the serve - the arm is rotating and the racket is rising while it rotates including edge-on to strings on the ball as in the video - is probably all driven by the internal shoulder rotation. This phase lasts about 20 millisecond. Where is the wrist snap?
https://vimeo.com/65434652

 

[Attila_the_gorilla]

If you swing up with your wrist laid back, like you should, that wrist will not be straightened out without snapping it. That's the point.

 

[Attila_the_gorilla]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0dldQUtRbo

At the beginning Djokovic talks about the importance of the wrist in the serve, although what he's showing is not quite what happens, but you get the idea.

What he's showing is just bending the wrist forward (flexion). But when coupled with pronation, this wrist motion is more out to the side.