They need 11. To omit Oscar Robertson is a travesty.1. Jordan
2. Lebron
3. Kareem
4. Russell
5. Magic
6. Wilt
7. Bird
8. Duncan
9. Kobe
10. Shaq
Thoughts?
Not a bad list imo. Would move 3-4 guys around but I think they got the right ten players.
Are any of their wives also married to you?I'd have Karl Malone as #1 and John Stockton as #2. Otherwise, not bad.
1. Jordan
2. Lebron
3. Kareem
4. Russell
5. Magic
6. Wilt
7. Bird
8. Duncan
9. Kobe
10. Shaq
Thoughts?
Not a bad list imo. Would move 3-4 guys around but I think they got the right ten players.
They need 11. To omit Oscar Robertson is a travesty.
Would have Kobe higher, maybe in front of Wilt.
Everybody has Jordan as number one, yes?
Not Kendrick Perkins, The Big LeBronski’s waterboy.Everybody has Jordan as number one, yes?
Pretty tough to compare eras. The game is played and officiated much differently in every era.Everybody has Jordan as number one, yes?
Pretty tough to compare eras. The game is played and officiated much differently in every era.
How do you compare NFL quarterbacks? These days, everything is officiated for an offensive passing league. And if you even so much as look at the QB wrong, it's a 15 yard penalty.
Everybody has Jordan as number one, yes?
Lebron won championships (and went to the championship) playing for a team that, without him, might have been last place in the league.LeBron James didn't inspire his teams to tremendous heights anywhere near the way Jordan did.
Not in the conversation.
Lebron won championships (and went to the championship) playing for a team that, without him, might have been last place in the league.
I'm not sure Jordan could have done that.
Love the first-name basis here.Lebron won championships (and went to the championship) playing for a team that, without him, might have been last place in the league.
I'm not sure Jordan could have done that.
Would you say that if "Prime Jordan" was playing for Lebron's Cavilers teams, he would have taken them to the championship series and won titles. Against the Warriors?Love the first-name basis here.
Hmm. I wonder which player had fiercer competition?
You're suggesting that LeBron James somehow managed to lose twice the number of times in finals than he won?Would you say that if "Prime Jordan" was playing for Lebron's Cavilers teams, he would have taken them to the championship series and won titles. Against the Warriors?
That’s an amazing picture of Oscar surrounded by DeBusschere, Lucas, Clyde and Phil! It took four guys to contain him, even near the end of his career.They did top 74 which you can see here. There’s links for 74-41 and 40-11.
Ranking the top 74 players of all time: 10-1
Who lands in the top spot as the greatest NBA player of all time?www.espn.com
Oscar is 11 and Hakeem is 12. I only posted the top 10 because that’s what most people care about. Also the list gets pretty bad outside the top 10, like Moses Malone at 18 is way too low.
Every Cadaver would have two black eyes if Be Like Mike was the ringleader.Would you say that if "Prime Jordan" was playing for Lebron's Cavilers teams, he would have taken them to the championship series and won titles. Against the Warriors?
I'd have Karl Malone as #1 and John Stockton as #2. Otherwise, not bad.
Lol how do we know he was an empty stat guy? It's not like any of us watched him live. I don't think Westbrook's stats are empty. Even his MVP crazy year, he was by far the clutchest player in the league. He willed them into the playoffs. But he hasn't had any postseason success post cupcake exit. I was curious to see how he would do in the playoffs this year but I guess we'll have to wait.Oscar Robertson was a bit of an empty stats guy imo. Westbrook before Westbrook. Still great but not top 10 all time.
Oscar Robertson was a bit of an empty stats guy imo. Westbrook before Westbrook. Still great but not top 10 all time.
What’s an empty stat?Lol how do we know he was an empty stat guy? It's not like any of us watched him live. I don't think Westbrook's stats are empty. Even his MVP crazy year, he was by far the clutchest player in the league. He willed them into the playoffs. But he hasn't had any postseason success post cupcake exit. I was curious to see how he would do in the playoffs this year but I guess we'll have to wait.
Anyway you're right, can't have Oscar in the top 10. Even the ring he won was when he was 2nd option to Kareem. And I checked the numbers he was putting up that year, nothing special.
Basically someone like Demar Derozan or in modern times, Bradley Beal. They put up crazy stats, but it doesn't amount to winning. Westbrook averaged a ridiculous statline in his 2017 1st round series against the Rockets, but they lost in 5. He averaged 37-12-11 lol It honestly could be having bad teammates. But every teammate loves Westbrook, and I don't think I've heard positive things about Oscar over the years from teammates.What’s an empty stat?
Westbrook, Harden and Durant have something in common, their joint origin in OKC. The three earned MVP honors.Basically someone like Demar Derozan or in modern times, Bradley Beal. They put up crazy stats, but it doesn't amount to winning. Westbrook averaged a ridiculous statline in his 2017 1st round series against the Rockets, but they lost in 5. He averaged 37-12-11 lol It honestly could be having bad teammates. But every teammate loves Westbrook, and I don't think I've heard positive things about Oscar over the years from teammates.
First, I'm trying to learn, not instigate conflict...
I watched a lot of basketball, both NCAA and NBA, in the early 1990s (a lot with the Bulls and the Pacers), and then again in 2005 (a lot with the Mavs). Since then I haven't watched that many full games, but have tried to keep up with the game anyway.
Isn't there a huge difference in what was allowed back in the day compared to nowadays? It was brutal back then! You don't have to go to the "Bad Boys"-vintage of Detroit Pistons to see "in your face-defending" that I think would get people fouls, fines and suspensions in today's game. Imho, if I assume correctly, that makes the feats of players from earlier eras even more impressive.
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Thanks for your input!Not really. Techs and flagrants believe were called less frequently but teams committed more fouls when Jordan played vs now.
1992-1993 season - teams averaged 27.7 (31.1-23.3) free throw attempts per game and averaged 23.2 (28.1-19.3) personal fouls committed per game
2015-2016 season - teams averaged 23.4 (29.4-20.0) free throw attempts per game and 20.3 (22.7-17.5) fouls per game.
The average nba player today is also miles ahead of the average nba player in the 90s. In the 90s most players struggled using their off hand and had to back down the court whenever they were pressed. Most players couldn’t shoot threes at a high enough clip to provide adequate spacing if zone defenses were allowed (which they weren’t in the 90s). The average player today is much more skilled and athletic. Offensive and defensive schemes are much more complex. The only two things the 90s had were hard fouls being called as common fouls and hand checking. Neither of those makes the game more difficult than it is today.
He was 32 that year, well past his prime first 5 years with an aggregate 30-point triple double. He still was a 19.4/5.7/8.3 guy in what was reduced minutes for him, the first time he didn’t average 41.5 or more minutes.Lol how do we know he was an empty stat guy? It's not like any of us watched him live. I don't think Westbrook's stats are empty. Even his MVP crazy year, he was by far the clutchest player in the league. He willed them into the playoffs. But he hasn't had any postseason success post cupcake exit. I was curious to see how he would do in the playoffs this year but I guess we'll have to wait.
Anyway you're right, can't have Oscar in the top 10. Even the ring he won was when he was 2nd option to Kareem. And I checked the numbers he was putting up that year, nothing special.
So which sports are public in that sense?The NBA makes stars like the WWE, it hasnt been a sport for a while.
If you look at the ruling in the Tim Donahey case, the judge stated the NBA is allowed to fix their games because its private.
Remember the dilapidated shoes?Another youngster that stands out is Zion Williamson. Really impressed me in the slam dunk contest on NBA 2k20 . Backflips, cartwheels and motorbikes included. My timing is terrible so I just had to say wow.
We had our Shaq and Kobe at LA. Gonna now we have Williamson and I at the Bulls.
Was 86-81 down against the 76ers on playoff game 1 conference final. Only 25 seconds or so left. We triple team the guy and he ends up with back court violation. We get a quick dunk. The last play of the game will always be remembered. We managed to get the ball again without fouling and then Carter manages a dunk and a foul against him at the same time with about 0.5 left. I couldn't believe it. I still thought the game wouldn't allow me back and Carter would miss his free throw. But he didn't. Wow. Over time felt really easy in the end. Great scenes. The second game was very close as well.
OK, sorry, back to real life now. Just got me so excited.
Is the list based on relative or absolute terms? In other words, is it how good the player was for his time? Or do we compare and rank players in an absolute sense?Not really. Techs and flagrants believe were called less frequently but teams committed more fouls when Jordan played vs now.
1992-1993 season - teams averaged 27.7 (31.1-23.3) free throw attempts per game and averaged 23.2 (28.1-19.3) personal fouls committed per game
2015-2016 season - teams averaged 23.4 (29.4-20.0) free throw attempts per game and 20.3 (22.7-17.5) fouls per game.
The average nba player today is also miles ahead of the average nba player in the 90s. In the 90s most players struggled using their off hand and had to back down the court whenever they were pressed. Most players couldn’t shoot threes at a high enough clip to provide adequate spacing if zone defenses were allowed (which they weren’t in the 90s). The average player today is much more skilled and athletic. Offensive and defensive schemes are much more complex. The only two things the 90s had were hard fouls being called as common fouls and hand checking. Neither of those makes the game more difficult than it is today.
Remember the dilapidated shoes?