Federer fans: would you be more of Nadal fan if?

[Finesse4sum]

I know forum users dont typically like hypothetical stuff but anyway.

1. Federer had more like Davydenko/Tsonga type results (with many slam semis and 1-2 master 1000 titles) retaining the first Wimbledon and being a One slam wonder.

2. Roddick won at least 3 slams with 1 USO and 2 Wimbledon titles.

3. Murray winning his first slam a lot earlier (starting 2009-2010) perhaps with a current resume of 2 AO and 1 Wimbledon

4. Djokovic still being dominant at AO perhaps winning AO 07 and having at least 2 USO titles having 6-8 slams overall.

5. Nadal having 5 straight FO's and 3 Wimbledon and 3-4 elsewhere to make 11-12 slams.

I ask because I always wonder what really wins out with the tennis enthusiasts on TTW and MTF. Does the perceived mental fortitude/ dominance make a fan or do people really get hung up on playing style regardless of how many titles racked up or being an all time great in the eyes of fans?

As a recreational player myself I admire Nadal for the the whole attrition breakdown of opponents. Survivability can be just as satisfying to watch as a exacting scalpel shot maker type. I may show a lot of dislike for Nadal but hes a good presence for the sport.

 

[tennisaddict]

I dont like Nadal's style because the foundation is based on physicality.

To me talent should be the basis and stamina / endurance should be something needed on top of that.

Nadal took advantage of the courts slow down with his style.

Ofcourse there are enough tennis fans who value endurance more than style and substance and for them Nadal is a legend.

 

[MichaelNadal]

I dont like Nadal's style because the foundation is based on physicality.

To me talent should be the basis and stamina / endurance should be something needed on top of that.

Nadal took advantage of the courts slow down with his style.

Ofcourse there are enough tennis fans who value endurance more than style and substance and for them Nadal is a legend.

I agree with this for the most part, but Nadal definitely has style.

 

[McEnroeisanartist]

I don't care for Nadal, because he plays terribly slow.

 

[smash hit]

I dont like Nadal's style because the foundation is based on physicality.


To me talent should be the basis and stamina / endurance should be something needed on top of that.

Maybe you should watch with blinkers and bias removed.

What exactly is talent? This video originally posted by RafaIsBack may give you some insight. But it is not guaranteed, since there are 'None so blind as those who will not see'

Jean-Paul Loth, a french journalist, gives his view on talent and Rafael Nadal (with english subtitles) :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8Kxah6Derk

 

[Kenshin]

I dont like Nadal's style because the foundation is based on physicality.

To me talent should be the basis and stamina / endurance should be something needed on top of that.

Nadal took advantage of the courts slow down with his style.

Ofcourse there are enough tennis fans who value endurance more than style and substance and for them Nadal is a legend.

Sadly, you don't know nothing about what is "talent".

 

[Dedans Penthouse]

I dont like Nadal's style because the foundation is based on physicality.

To me talent should be the basis and stamina / endurance should be something needed on top of that.

Nadal took advantage of the courts slow down with his style.

Ofcourse

there are enough tennis fans who value endurance more than style and substance

and for them Nadal is a legend.

13 Grand Slam titles does not constitute substance...let alone style?

Lemme guess: Fedfanboy? ;-)

 

[cucio]

Style and talent around here means whacking the ball as hard as you can, no matter where it lands. For instance, Gulbis and Cilic are immensely talented and have great style. Fact.

 

[chicagodude]

I dont like Nadal's style because the foundation is based on physicality.

To me talent should be the basis and stamina / endurance should be something needed on top of that.

Nadal took advantage of the courts slow down with his style.

Ofcourse there are enough tennis fans who value endurance more than style and substance and for them Nadal is a legend.

No offense, but you seem to be correlating 'aesthetically pleasing' with 'talented'. Nadal's style is not particularly pleasing to the eye, but he has massive amounts of talent, which he has displayed from a very early age, before his physicality really came into play. His talent is definitely the foundation of his success, his physical ability has simply enhanced his success.

I agree to some extent that he has benefited somewhat from slowing of courts.

Why you make the generalization that Nadal-fans are only his fans because Nadal happens to have great endurance is beyond me, and sounds like an upset Federer fan.

 

[Finesse4sum]

I dont like Nadal's style because the foundation is based on physicality.

To me talent should be the basis and stamina / endurance should be something needed on top of that.

Nadal took advantage of the courts slow down with his style.

Ofcourse there are enough tennis fans who value endurance more than style and substance and for them Nadal is a legend.

Sometimes I wish we could take a peek inside teen nadal's mind before he became a FO champion to see what was going on up there considering his forehand actually looked pretty standard (from old youtube stuff) before he went all kenshin reverse blade stuff lol

Even though everything is pretty much subjective how do you define "style" with a movie critic approach towards tennis?

I still get what your saying though because in B-ball Lebron James seems more like a physical specimen (always driving the ball) instead of his teammate Dwayne Wade who seems much more versatile and varied with how he makes points.

I agree with this for the most part, but Nadal definitely has style.

I think Fed fans (being one myself) think that Nadal basically "owns" the whole geometry of tennis between the physics of his shots and the parameter set by the lines of the court.

I suppose some of us feel like its "cheating" because Nadal seems to defy court positioning norms and is almost impregnable by bounce or surface or shot type

I don't care for Nadal, because he plays terribly slow.

I will never watch AO 2012 final again haha

Maybe you should watch with blinkers and bias removed.

What exactly is talent? This video originally posted by RafaIsBack may give you some insight. But it is not guaranteed, since there are 'None so blind as those who will not see'

Jean-Paul Loth, a french journalist, gives his view on talent and Rafael Nadal (with english subtitles) :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8Kxah6Derk

Talent is hard to grasp I suppose. I think lots of viewers attribute it to perceived grace or finesse. Perhaps with Nadal it seems like his playing style is forced and more of the hard working type to make it what it is.

Hate to use another Anime reference but its like comparing Rock Lee and Sasuke Uchiha from Naruto. Both powerful characters but one was more of a prodigy (Sasuke) and the other had to make up for that but was even more of a force to reckoned with because he wanted to be better and kept improving despite perceived flaws (Rock)

13 Grand Slam titles does not constitute substance...let alone style?

Lemme guess: Fedfanboy? ;-)

Comparing a good pop corn movie like The Dark Knight to another Nolan movie like Memento/ The Prestige like its been said is subjective but taste does exist although most of the time not agreed upon between movie goers.

Style and talent around here means whacking the ball as hard as you can, no matter where it lands. For instance, Gulbis and Cilic are immensely talented and have great style. Fact.

Fed fans make fun of ball bashers too. It seems like versatility cannot really exist because it seems like slicing a ball is like instant death in a point and a drop shot is some weak crap to only be used a few times a match and attempting to volley is really a fake out and not much more.

 

[Graf=GOAT]

I agree with this for the most part, but Nadal definitely has style.

What style? Running around, hitting forehands with 1 meter net clearance?

 

[TheF1Bob]

Majority of the Fed farts don't want Capy to break his GS record so take that into consideration OP.

 

[Fedinkum]

There are Fed fans who enjoy watching Nadal and vice versa.

 

[jhhachamp]

I know forum users dont typically like hypothetical stuff but anyway.

1. Federer had more like Davydenko/Tsonga type results (with many slam semis and 1-2 master 1000 titles) retaining the first Wimbledon and being a One slam wonder.

2. Roddick won at least 3 slams with 1 USO and 2 Wimbledon titles.

3. Murray winning his first slam a lot earlier (starting 2009-2010) perhaps with a current resume of 2 AO and 1 Wimbledon

4. Djokovic still being dominant at AO perhaps winning AO 07 and having at least 2 USO titles having 6-8 slams overall.

5. Nadal having 5 straight FO's and 3 Wimbledon and 3-4 elsewhere to make 11-12 slams.

I ask because I always wonder what really wins out with the tennis enthusiasts on TTW and MTF. Does the perceived mental fortitude/ dominance make a fan or do people really get hung up on playing style regardless of how many titles racked up or being an all time great in the eyes of fans?

As a recreational player myself I admire Nadal for the the whole attrition breakdown of opponents. Survivability can be just as satisfying to watch as a exacting scalpel shot maker type. I may show a lot of dislike for Nadal but hes a good presence for the sport.

No, no, no, no, and no. These hypotheticals all seem irrelevant. Most of them do not even have anything to do with Nadal, so why would it affect Federer fans' opinions of him?

 

[Magnus]

Results are nice, but playing fairly is more important. In that regard, I could never be a Nadal fan, even if he has 100 slams. The guy is the biggest tennis criminal I've ever seen.

 

[MichaelNadal]

What style? Running around, hitting forehands with 1 meter net clearance?

How about an individual technique that separates him from other players and no one else can quite duplicate? Get out of here with your butthurt.

 

[Finesse4sum]

There are Fed fans who enjoy watching Nadal and vice versa.

I think its quite a minority just as it is with a a spectator who actually likes more than one football team outside of the "I rather see this one lose" domino effect.

No, no, no, no, and no. These hypotheticals all seem irrelevant. Most of them do not even have anything to do with Nadal, so why would it affect Federer fans' opinions of him?

Well I'm trying to see if the dislike/hatred of Nadal extends beyond the record/ most title race with Federer. If you were always accustom to eating a great apple pie in a small town and thats all you knew you wouldnt think anything out there would touch it in terms of culinary greatness.

I really did mean "more" of a fan but not necessarily "I love him" or "hes the best to me". What I'm trying to find is do fans cling to the titles or is there something about Federer that people like regardless of his consistency and titles since then.

Hypotheticals are always going to be irrelevant but I cant "change" Nadal. If Fed were more of a Del Potro or Roddick would perception shift of Nadal even though they may not be completely converted fans? Thats my point mostly.

Results are nice, but playing fairly is more important. In that regard, I could never be a Nadal fan, even if he has 100 slams. The guy is the biggest tennis criminal I've ever seen.

Okay so the integrity card then. Problem is where do you draw the line between winning no matter what and conceding to the rules?

 

[tennisaddict]

Majority of the Fed farts don't want Capy to break his GS record so take that into consideration OP.

See, this is what most Nadal fans think.

I dont believe if Delpo or Tsonga or Novak were to get 13 majors, Fed fans will start hating them.

Dont we see that most Fed fans like similar kind of players- Delpo, Tsonga, Stan. All players who have attacking style with aesthetics.

 

[jhhachamp]

Well I'm trying to see if the dislike/hatred of Nadal extends beyond the record/ most title race with Federer. If you were always accustom to eating a great apple pie in a small town and thats all you knew you wouldnt think anything out there would touch it in terms of culinary greatness.

I really did mean "more" of a fan but not necessarily "I love him" or "hes the best to me". What I'm trying to find is do fans cling to the titles or is there something about Federer that people like regardless of his consistency and titles since then.

Hypotheticals are always going to be irrelevant but I cant "change" Nadal. If Fed were more of a Del Potro or Roddick would perception shift of Nadal even though they may not be completely converted fans? Thats my point mostly.

I do not have a clue what point you are trying to get across here.

 

[triforce defender]

See, this is what most Nadal fans think.

I dont believe if Delpo or Tsonga or Novak were to get 13 majors, Fed fans will start hating them.

Dont we see that most Fed fans like similar kind of players- Delpo, Tsonga, Stan. All players who have attacking style with aesthetics.

I would bet my life that Federer fans would hate those players too if they were close to 17 slams and had a winning h2h vs. Fed. You know in your heart it's true.

 

[bullfan]

I'm not sure what the point of this is. Most Fed fans don't like Nadal, and never will.

One can't erase what Nadal achieved against Fed. W2008 has become the mono excuse, which is a royal joke. That's a Johnny come lately argument, that is disputed by the Fed fans not using that argument during the match here, when there were far more Fed fans than Nadal fans. 1 Fed fan claimed mono at the time, and didn't get a single supporting response. I know I'm a broken record here, but, it's the truth, and revisionist history doesn't apply.

 

[Finesse4sum]

I do not have a clue what point you are trying to get across here.

Nevermind then lol. I think about stuff a lot. I suppose we'll know how both factions feel if theres ever another dominant RG player and another player akin to Fed as well.

I would bet my life that Federer fans would hate those players too if they were close to 17 slams and had a winning h2h vs. Fed. You know in your heart it's true.

The same could be said if someone got to 6-7 RG titles.

I'm not sure what the point of this is. Most Fed fans don't like Nadal, and never will.

One can't erase what Nadal achieved against Fed. W2008 has become the mono excuse, which is a royal joke. That's a Johnny come lately argument, that is disputed by the Fed fans not using that argument during the match here, when there were far more Fed fans than Nadal fans. 1 Fed fan claimed mono at the time, and didn't get a single supporting response. I know I'm a broken record here, but, it's the truth, and revisionist history doesn't apply.

Nadal fans will make excuses for that match against Murray at AO no matter how much time passes even if its not a career defining one. Whether real or not it seems that it is mentally etched in stone that Nadal only loses when hes injured and only gets pushed because hes under par that particular time.

As for Wimb 2008 I dont think it matters anymore. Fed went down two sets against Nadal before losing and the next year went down two sets against Roddick before winning. Noone intends to go down 2 sets to love but it certainly lowers your chances of winning much more no matter how much of a "battler" it makes you to fans.

Anyway among all the hatred and GOAT discussions I just wanted to see how ill people thought of Nadal without wading through senseless bashing posts that give no real feedback.

 

[bullfan]

Nevermind then lol. I think about stuff a lot. I suppose we'll know how both factions feel if theres ever another dominant RG player and another player akin to Fed as well.



The same could be said if someone got to 6-7 RG titles.



Nadal fans will make excuses for that match against Murray at AO no matter how much time passes even if its not a career defining one. Whether real or not it seems that it is mentally etched in stone that Nadal only loses when hes injured and only gets pushed because hes under par that particular time.

As for Wimb 2008 I dont think it matters anymore. Fed went down two sets against Nadal before losing and the next year went down two sets against Roddick before winning. Noone intends to go down 2 sets to love but it certainly lowers your chances of winning much more no matter how much of a "battler" it makes you to fans.

Anyway among all the hatred and GOAT discussions I just wanted to see how ill people thought of Nadal without wading through senseless bashing posts that give no real feedback.

I didn't bring up anything about Nadal getting injured. I think it's naive and/ or absurd to make these kinds of posts, I call the the holy grail posts of tennis. Everything seems to think they've cracked the nut in regard to Fed Nadal, and it's just not possible in my opinion.

I can't stand the hamster wheel goat threads, and as much as folks try to claim no agenda, it seems there always is.

 

[not_federer]

Excessive celebrations - VAMOSSSSSS@!!!!!!!!111111 /PUNCHING GROUND REVVING THE CHAINSAW/

Butt picking

time wasting

disappearing from tour for 6+ months after embarassing losses

the banana incident

the foot incident at Wimbledon that one year. MRI was squeaky clean. Go figure.

gamesmanship

bullying

yeah. I dislike rafa because he always beats Federer. I hate him because of the above BS.

 

[monfed]

No he's too boring. I don't have the patience to wait forerver for Ralph to serve so I end up switching to another channel.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Excessive celebrations - VAMOSSSSSS@!!!!!!!!111111 /PUNCHING GROUND REVVING THE CHAINSAW/

Butt picking

time wasting

disappearing from tour for 6+ months after embarassing losses

the banana incident

the foot incident at Wimbledon that one year. MRI was squeaky clean. Go figure.

gamesmanship

bullying

yeah. I dislike rafa because he always beats Federer. I hate him because of the above BS.

:lol: needs more butthurt.

 

[robert.s]

In short, no. I watch Federer in the early rounds of any GS or Masters and then I watch the quarters, the semis and the final. I am pretty sure that no matter how many titles Nadal wins, he won't make me watch one of his 1st or 2nd round matches. They're a f...ing borefest to me. How can you love a player whose matches against players outside the top 10 you find boring?

 

[fatichar]

What style? Running around, hitting forehands with 1 meter net clearance?

Even seen his single handed backhand volley with his back to the net?

 

[fatichar]

Style and talent around here means whacking the ball as hard as you can, no matter where it lands. For instance, Gulbis and Cilic are immensely talented and have great style. Fact.

If Rafa were to hit like Gulbis, ball boys and audience would be in real trouble

 

[fatichar]

Nadal fans will make excuses for that match against Murray at AO no matter how much time passes even if its not a career defining one. Whether real or not it seems that it is mentally etched in stone that Nadal only loses when hes injured and only gets pushed because hes under par that particular time.

No one says Nadal was injured in ANY of his 7 consecutive losses to Djokovic.

 

[fatichar]

disappearing from tour for 6+ months after embarassing losses

the banana incident

What was the banana incident?

He disappeared only twice after embarrassing losses. The most embarrassing would be the 7 losses against Djoko. Some shock losses happen to everyone. Not so much embarrassment there. But for a world No 1, with a winning record over all his rivals, to go down 7 straight times in less than a year to one particular player is rral embarrassment. Why didn't he disappear?

At least Soderling and Rosol played superb for their wins. And Rafa could takr sets from them. But Darcis? He played top 50 tennis and still straight setted Rafa. Wouldn't that be more embarrassing? How come he swept the USO series just after?

 

[jg153040]

For me, it wouldn't matter. Rafa style and his antics are the only reason I don't enjoy watching him often.

I find him boring and his interviews too. He always does the same thing and says the same thing. It's predictable. And I hate grunting and time wasting. When people do this to me in real life, it's really annoying.

And I can't ignore this, just because he wins. I mean, ok Rafa is fun to watch when I watch highlights. So I can watch only his aggressive points only, turn off the sound and don't have to watch his antics and time wasting. And when watching him it looks like he is suffering there, not enjoying himself. It's hard to watch that too.

But, I actually love watching his highlights. That is amazing. I watch his highlights a lot. There you don't have gamesmanship, time wasting, antics and boring style, because it shows only good points and I turn down sound.

But I can't bring myself to watch his matches live or listen to interviews, because he can't say much, because of his English.

But I do watch his highlights a lot and I love it.

And I can tolerate a lot, takes me a lot to not like a player. I think Mac and Rafa are the only ones I don't like. But at least Mac compensates with his genius style for his arrogance.

 

[MichaelNadal]

In short, no. I watch Federer in the early rounds of any GS or Masters and then I watch the quarters, the semis and the final. I am pretty sure that no matter how many titles Nadal wins, he won't make me watch one of his 1st or 2nd round matches. They're a f...ing borefest to me. How can you love a player whose matches against players outside the top 10 you find boring?

You can't. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's an objective and fair reason to not like someone.

 

[jg153040]

You can't. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's an objective and fair reason to not like someone.

Yeah. I mean, some people will hate Fed. I can accept that. But I hope they at least have some good reasons.

Like not liking his style, or his character.

Not liking someone just because he wins too much or beats your guy is stupid.

 

[Povl Carstensen]

I'm not sure what the point of this is. Most Fed fans don't like Nadal, and never will.

One can't erase what Nadal achieved against Fed. W2008 has become the mono excuse, which is a royal joke. That's a Johnny come lately argument, that is disputed by the Fed fans not using that argument during the match here, when there were far more Fed fans than Nadal fans. 1 Fed fan claimed mono at the time, and didn't get a single supporting response. I know I'm a broken record here, but, it's the truth, and revisionist history doesn't apply.

I think other threads here have documented otherwise. But apart from that, I like both (Federer and Nadal).

 

[Chanwan]

No one says Nadal was injured in ANY of his 7 consecutive losses to Djokovic.

actually, I've come across quite a few, who do.

 

[vive le beau jeu !]

 

[wy2sl0]

Slow play between points
Nowhere near aggressive enough for his ability (that is the worst I must say)
Picking rear

I think Nadal fans highly overestimate the care some of us Fed fans have on Rafa winning >17 majors. I know I don't. Fed will still be Fed and Nadal will still be Nadal. It is the same handful of people that have posted the same threads for years, that isn't a good sample size.