Federer using PS 85

[Banger]

I think you just contradicted yourself in the same paragraph. If people who have the nCode 90 now buy the K-90 instead, doesn't that mean the sales will shift from the nCode 90 to the K-90? Instead of buying more nCode 90's (like I was about to do), they buy more K-90's instead (like I am going to do).

BTW, the nCode 90 was selling fine until people started finding out about the K-90 (which is why Wilson tried to keep it a secret as long as they could). Just ask TW how fast the nCode 90 was selling until a few months ago.

You are assuming that sales of the ncode are fine then yes the sales would shift to the K90. I said that the ncode was not selling well and therefore the sales would not shift because there were no ncode sales, so I did not contradict myself. Actually now that I think about didnt you post somewhere that there is a huge inventory of ncodes that are on the shelf? That is being contradictory. With that being said how many people do you actually think even know about the K90 other than the people on this board and people that go to proshops? The real interest will come when Fed uses it at the AO.

 

[BreakPoint]

Actually you said he did NOT play with this racquet till 6 months ago.

Do you also have a short memory? You asked me that same question yesterday and I answered you directly immediately:

BTW, just to be clear, I believe the K-90 is much closer to the racquet he has been using for years than the stock nCode 90 was (e.g., more open pattern, shorter grip, etc.). So when he made the switch to the K-90 from whatever he was using 6 months ago, the change was not that drastic. I believe his racquet always had more flex and more feel than the nCode 90 does, and just like the K-90 does now. Probably the only difference is the addition of this "Black Karbon, K-Factor" technology, whatever it's supposed to be. So, no, he hasn't been using an exact K-90 for the past 5 years, just something very, very similar, but without the new K technology. For the past 6 months, however, he has been using a real K-90 (customized to his liking, of course).

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=1115394&postcount=604

And then I followed up with this right afterwards:

If you've read Craig's review, the K-90 is about as close to a PS 6.0 85 in the Tour 90 mold as you can get. Very similar in the way it swings and feels to the PS 6.0 85.

I believe Federer has been using this racquet all along ever since he switched to the Tour 90 in 2003, with the exception of the "Black Karbon, K-Factor" technology, which probably doesn't do very much anyway.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=1115404&postcount=607

So if you read my posts correctly, you'd see that what I'm saying is that Federer never used a real nCode 90 but was using essentially a K-90 for the past 5 years until 6 months ago when he switched to a K-90 that contains that "Black Karbon" technology that anyone can now buy. Whether or not this "Black Karbon" thing changes the racquet at all is anyone's guess at this point.

 

[BreakPoint]

You are assuming that sales of the ncode are fine then yes the sales would shift to the K90. I said that the ncode was not selling well and therefore the sales would not shift because there were no ncode sales, so I did not contradict myself. Actually now that I think about didnt you post somewhere that there is a huge inventory of ncodes that are on the shelf? That is being contradictory. With that being said how many people do you actually think even know about the K90 other than the people on this board and people that go to proshops? The real interest will come when Fed uses it at the AO.

Where is your evidence that the nCode 90 was not selling well for the past 2.5 years? Please show me. TW sold tons of them which made them a "Best Seller". Every pro shop I go in to is always sold out of them and they tell me they can't stock them fast enough. I see lots of people using it. I was about to buy a few more myself. So, no, it's not just an assumption that it was selling well. I saw it.

Have you asked TW how well the nCode 90 was selling up until two months ago? TW has a large inventory now because Wilson is clearing out its inventory of the nCode 90 to make room for the K-90 so they are shipping all of the remaining stock to all the major retailers. That was not the case a few months ago. And sales may have slowed now because: 1.) it's the dead of winter in most tennis markets right now, and 2.) most people who use the nCode 90 are into tennis enough to know about the K-90 coming out. Don't you think TW's customers who buy from TW also read this board?

 

[sureshs]

So if you read my posts correctly, you'd see that what I'm saying is that Federer never used a real nCode 90 but was using essentially a K-90 for the past 5 years until 6 months ago when he switched to a K-90 that contains that "Black Karbon" technology that anyone can now buy. Whether or not this "Black Karbon" thing changes the racquet at all is anyone's guess at this point.

This is what you said you have been saying when you agreed:

"I don't know what else was said about it but I understand from my contact at Wilson, the K Factor is the exact racquet that they have been making for Federer that we've been calling the NCode. Federer never played with the NCode you can buy at the store, but now the new "KFactor" is his frame exactly."

He is saying nothing about Federer changing racquets 6 months ago.

Further, if the composition has changed, he and you are in contradiction, because he is saying the racquet is exactly the same as what Fed has been using, while you are saying the composition is different. If the composition is different, it cannot be the exact same racquet. You are now minimizing the effect of Karbon, while previously you maintained that the silicon oxide particles in NCode was an important composition change. In either case, there is no real info to substantiate anything.

And all this is based on what he is saying about what the Wilson rep said, which is not proof of anything.

Too many convenient and contradictory conclusions being drawn from absolutely no evidence.

 

[BreakPoint]

This is what you said you have been saying when you agreed:

"I don't know what else was said about it but I understand from my contact at Wilson, the K Factor is the exact racquet that they have been making for Federer that we've been calling the NCode. Federer never played with the NCode you can buy at the store, but now the new "KFactor" is his frame exactly."

He is saying nothing about Federer changing racquets 6 months ago.

Further, if the composition has changed, he and you are in contradiction, because he is saying the racquet is exactly the same as what Fed has been using, while you are saying the composition is different. If the composition is different, it cannot be the exact same racquet. You are now minimizing the effect of Karbon, while previously you maintained that the silicon oxide particles in NCode was an important composition change. In either case, there is no real info to substantiate anything.

And all this is based on what he is saying about what the Wilson rep said, which is not proof of anything.

Too many convenient and contradictory conclusions being drawn from absolutely no evidence.

nCode definitely does do something. Everyone can feel the difference. It's muted. No one has claimed Black Carbon does anything. In fact, people saying that it plays like the PS 6.0 85 is confirmation that it doesn't do anything, as we're now back to where we started from 25 years ago. Even if Federer switched to a real K-90 six months ago from his almost real K-90, it didn't make enough of a difference for anyone to be able to differentiate one from the other. Everyone is just calling both - the K90.

 

[Banger]

Where is your evidence that the nCode 90 was not selling well for the past 2.5 years? Please show me. TW sold tons of them which made them a "Best Seller". Every pro shop I go in to is always sold out of them and they tell me they can't stock them fast enough. I see lots of people using it. I was about to buy a few more myself. So, no, it's not just an assumption that it was selling well. I saw it.

Have you asked TW how well the nCode 90 was selling up until two months ago? TW has a large inventory now because Wilson is clearing out its inventory of the nCode 90 to make room for the K-90 so they are shipping all of the remaining stock to all the major retailers. That was not the case a few months ago. And sales may have slowed now because: 1.) it's the dead of winter in most tennis markets right now, and 2.) most people who use the nCode 90 are into tennis enough to know about the K-90 coming out. Don't you think TW's customers who buy from TW also read this board?

I never said it was not selling as fact. I said probably. You are the one whom continues to make claims as fact when in reality you have no evidence to back up anything you say. Just because you saw tennis shops selling them and TW sells many isnt a definitive sign they are selling well. I am talking about overall worldwide sales. TW and the proshops you see are about.00001% of the worldwide sales. Have you ever heard of the business product lifecyle?
Bottom line is that sales were flat, albeit the market saturated or no interest in the product and that is why Wilson is coming out with these new racquets. Not because they want to accomodate us with Feds racquet. This is how every business operates, they come out with new products to rejuvinate sales or compete with the competiton.

 

[BreakPoint]

I never said it was not selling as fact. I said probably. You are the one whom continues to make claims as fact when in reality you have no evidence to back up anything you say. Just because you saw tennis shops selling them and TW sells many isnt a definitive sign they are selling well. I am talking about overall worldwide sales. TW and the proshops you see are about.00001% of the worldwide sales. Have you ever heard of the business product lifecyle?
Bottom line is that sales were flat, albeit the market saturated or no interest in the product and that is why Wilson is coming out with these new racquets. Not because they want to accomodate us with Feds racquet. This is how every business operates, they come out with new products to rejuvinate sales or compete with the competiton.

TW is probably Wilson's biggest account and accounts for a significant portion of Wilson's worldwide sales. TW alone is already much more than "0.00001%" of Wilson's worldwide sales. Much, much more. Like 100,000 times more. How do you think TW is able to get discontinued racquets like the PS 6.0 85, PS 6.0 95, PS 6.1 Classic, HH 6.3, etc., and Euro only racquets like the HPS 6.0 95 Tour? And how about the PS 6.0 85/Tour 90 and PS 6.0 95/Tour 95 paintjobs that were made only for the pros?

Yes, I know about product lifecycles. I have an MBA. However, it does not apply to all products. Do you stop buying razors or diapers because you already have one? Racquets break and wear out and people replace them or add to their collection.

How do you apply your "product life cycle" theory to the PS 6.0 85, POG or PC600? All of which they continued to sell for 20+ years.

 

[Swissv2]

Federer does not use a painted PS 85.

Look here to see the comparison.

http://www.tennis-scheduler.com/fedracquet/