Fedovic was a better rivalry than Djokodal/Fedal

Fabresque

Legend
The Djokovic-Federer rivalry was a much better/interesting rivalry than the other Big 3 rivalries.

It finished 27-23. Federer won their first match in 2006. Djokovic won their final encounter in 2020.

Hard court: Both players best surfaces are hard courts (Fed debatable w/ grass but has stated he prefers hard court), both players have held record #’s of HC slams either before or currently. Both players have claims to be the greatest hard court player of all time. H2H is 20-18. Incredibly close. Fed won the first encounter. Djokovic won the last. Both had stretches where they dominated the other. Neither were able to pull away, very back and forth.

Clay court: 4-4. Total deadlock. Nobody had an advantage on this surface. Went back and forth at the masters tournaments and both beat each other once at Roland-Garros.

Grass Court: 3-1 Djokovic. All at Wimbledon. Fed won first encounter in 2012 semi’s. Was defeated in 2014, 15, and 19 finals. 14 and 19 are considered some of the greatest/dramatic Wimbledon finals ever. Both extended five setters.

For most of their careers, it was a total dead heat between the two. Now compare it with other rivalries…

Djokodal: 30-29 for Djokovic. Until 2013 was an ATG rivalry, since then has lost its prestige. Became way too surface dependent. Nadal would win on clay. Djokovic would win on everything else. Clay was 20-8 for Nadal. Hard was 20-7 for Djokovic. Grass was 2-2.

Nadal since 2013 has failed to register a single win on hard courts or grass courts vs Novak Djokovic.

Djokovic since 2013 has registered 5 wins over Nadal in 10 attempts on clay, which doesn’t seem bad, but factor in that 3/5 of these wins came in 2015/16, Nadal’s worst years, it doesn’t look as good.

Nadal from 2012-2017 struggled to get past the first week at Wimbledon, which prevented many potential meetings between the two.

Fedal: 24-16 for Nadal. This was never really a “rivalry”. Was too surface dependent yet again, the only difference being that Nadal was good enough on hard/grass courts to keep up a bit, and was way too good on clay, which enabled him to completely dominate Roger for an extended period until 2015.

2015 onward, Federer figured the matchup out and went 7-1 in their final 8 matches, completely dominating Rafa on hard courts and grass courts. Nadal won the lone clay meeting. No back and forth tussles, surface dependent, this was a rivalry that had either one guy or another guy completely dominate.

Once again, from 2012-2017, Nadal struggled at the first week of Wimbledon which prevented any additional potential meetings.

Federer-Djokovic never had a surface based outcome. It was never totally dominant on one side or another. And whilst Fedal/Djokodal did have very memorable matches (W 2007/2008, AO 2012/2017), Fedovic also provided some of the best matches ever (RG 2012, W 2014/2019, US Open series from 2007-2011).
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
The Djokovic-Federer rivalry was a much better/interesting rivalry than the other Big 3 rivalries.

It finished 27-23. Federer won their first match in 2006. Djokovic won their final encounter in 2020.

Hard court: Both players best surfaces are hard courts (Fed debatable w/ grass but has stated he prefers hard court), both players have held record #’s of HC slams either before or currently. Both players have claims to be the greatest hard court player of all time. H2H is 20-18. Incredibly close. Fed won the first encounter. Djokovic won the last. Both had stretches where they dominated the other. Neither were able to pull away, very back and forth.

Clay court: 4-4. Total deadlock. Nobody had an advantage on this surface. Went back and forth at the masters tournaments and both beat each other once at Roland-Garros.

Grass Court: 3-1 Djokovic. All at Wimbledon. Fed won first encounter in 2012 semi’s. Was defeated in 2014, 15, and 19 finals. 14 and 19 are considered some of the greatest/dramatic Wimbledon finals ever. Both extended five setters.

For most of their careers, it was a total dead heat between the two. Now compare it with other rivalries…

Djokodal: 30-29 for Djokovic. Until 2013 was an ATG rivalry, since then has lost its prestige. Became way too surface dependent. Nadal would win on clay. Djokovic would win on everything else. Clay was 20-8 for Nadal. Hard was 20-7 for Djokovic. Grass was 2-2.

Nadal since 2013 has failed to register a single win on hard courts or grass courts vs Novak Djokovic.

Djokovic since 2013 has registered 5 wins over Nadal in 10 attempts on clay, which doesn’t seem bad, but factor in that 3/5 of these wins came in 2015/16, Nadal’s worst years, it doesn’t look as good.

Nadal from 2012-2017 struggled to get past the first week at Wimbledon, which prevented many potential meetings between the two.

Fedal: 24-16 for Nadal. This was never really a “rivalry”. Was too surface dependent yet again, the only difference being that Nadal was good enough on hard/grass courts to keep up a bit, and was way too good on clay, which enabled him to completely dominate Roger for an extended period until 2015.

2015 onward, Federer figured the matchup out and went 7-1 in their final 8 matches, completely dominating Rafa on hard courts and grass courts. Nadal won the lone clay meeting. No back and forth tussles, surface dependent, this was a rivalry that had either one guy or another guy completely dominate.

Once again, from 2012-2017, Nadal struggled at the first week of Wimbledon which prevented any additional potential meetings.

Federer-Djokovic never had a surface based outcome. It was never totally dominant on one side or another. And whilst Fedal/Djokodal did have very memorable matches (W 2007/2008, AO 2012/2017), Fedovic also provided some of the best matches ever (RG 2012, W 2014/2019, US Open series from 2007-2011).
Are they still counting a match that never happened?
And you talk about dominance on grass when they faced each other only once in that period (as well as on clay) but forgetting that that match was closer at Wimbledon than the one played at the French Open.
o_O
 
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DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
Nadal was too busy losing first week to get to Djokovic and get his ass pounded at Wimbledon.
In your paragraph you talk about the Federer vs Nadal rivalry, implying that the Swiss player dominated the Spanish bull also on grass on that period, which is incorrect.
:notworthy:
 

Fabresque

Legend
In your paragraph you talk about the Federer vs Nadal rivalry, implying that the Swiss player dominated the Spanish bull also on grass on that period, which is incorrect.
:notworthy:
I mean. They only played like, once. In 2019. And Federer won.

What other year from 2015 onward would Nadal even beat Fed at Wimbledon? Maybe 2018.
 

Federer and Del Potro

Bionic Poster
giphy.gif
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
I mean. They only played like, once. In 2019. And Federer won.

What other year from 2015 onward would Nadal even beat Fed at Wimbledon? Maybe 2018.
The same as in clay, then.
Only once, then the word dominate is meaningless.
And if you like to give hypothetical victories, it is obvious who would have won in the 2018 edition.
:D
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Fedovic is certainly the better tennis rivalry, but Fedal was such a vibe. Such a moment in time. Clam diggers, hair ties, fire and ice.

The Borg-McEnroe rivalry is considered like the greatest in the sport and lasted a fraction of the time Fedal's did.
peak Fedal > everything. Definitely the most classic, iconic, historically relevant matches produced

Best longevity/physicality of matchup - Djokodal

Best average, highest median, most likely to watch a decent match at random - Fedovic

Exactly, it just felt so big and epic. Been a long time since tennis felt like that and I don't think it ever will again.

b_2000s_2007_Nadal_Federer_260949.jpg
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
Fedal wasn't a rivalry, just the same repetitive script over and over again. It's obvious why the Ned lovers liked it so much.
They never met at the USO

Nothing interesting ever happened at RG, Nadal simply steamrolled Fed there

Fed couldn’t beat Nadal at AO until the end of his career

the thrill of this rivalry is heavily based on a couple of matches at Wimbledon
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
peak Fedal > everything. Definitely the most classic, iconic, historically relevant matches produced

Best longevity/physicality of matchup - Djokodal

Best average, highest median, most likely to watch a decent match at random - Fedovic
Most classic and iconic?

the only one that really fits that bill is WB08

nothing at the USO

nothing at RG

maybe one at AO17 but that was the tail end of their careers

Nadalovic have iconic matches at all slams
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Most classic and iconic?

the only one that really fits that bill is WB08

nothing at the USO

nothing at RG

maybe one at AO17 but that was the tail end of their careers

Nadalovic have iconic matches at all slams
It's ok to let people have their opinion without having to always ram Novak into the discussion.
 

nevermind

Rookie
Federer - Djokovic is the most entertaining rivalry in history of tennis, for me there is no doubt. Because they are more similar as players than most people realize - most people presume that Federer is a constantly aggressive, offensive machine/maestro and Djokovic a defensive, counterpunching wall.

But, they are actually similar in some ways. Both of them try to stay close to the baseline, hit the ball on the rise with incredible timing(both are very talented in that regard). With their court positions and ability to take time away, it often felt like watching a table tennis(ping pong) match with two incredibly skilled, precise ball strikers. Federer's serve(the best spot server of all time, probably with Pete Sampras) against Djokovic's return was the most interesting part of it, at least for me. Also, Federer taking pace off the ball with the slice, inviting Djokovic to be more offensive, dragging him sometimes with the shorter slice to a no man's land where Novak doesn't feel the most comfortable etc. Matchup full of tactical nuances.

In general, they both liked lower bouncing, indoor(if possible), faster surfaces(especially Federer, Djokovic is a bit more adaptable/complete - surface independent). For those who don't understand why Djokovic prefers faster instead of slower conditions - his offense works way better on slicker, faster, low bouncing courts where his pace generation "averageness" is not exposed at all and his defense(because of incredible pace absorption, compactness of strokes and speed) is relatively uncompromised, even on fastest of courts - his effortless sliding/movement on grass is another evidence to that.

Rivalries with Nadal that they had were mostly surface dependent, and makes it a little bit boring/predictable. For example, I knew that Nadal is going to trash Djokovic in RG 2020 final where conditions were so, so slow and heavy(held in October, colder time - autumn) that Djokovic can't hit through them and Nadal obviously could because he's the greatest pace generator of all time, built like a bodybuilder. Also, I knew that Nadal had no chance against Djokovic in AO 2019 final on a faster, low bouncing hard court where Djokovic's technical brilliance, compactness, precision would outmatch Nadal's physicality, muscle(strength, pace generation), constantly rushing him and taking time away. Novak was mostly dominating that rivalry post 2011, even seriously challenging Nadal on clay(beating him twice at RG).

On the other hand, Nadal was mostly dominating the Fedal rivalry, by relentlessly exploiting Roger's one hander with that lefty, heavy topspin forehand over and over and over again. Using one same pattern to win most of the matches. That's not very interesting from a tactical standpoint, we all must admit. Federer figured him out(outside of clay) in 2017 when he learned to step in and take that backhand on the rise(thing Djokovic does, another example was Davydenko) instead of waiting to bounce at or above his shoulders(thus bothering/compromising Federer's contact point) and slicing it, but it was too late.
 

NeutralFan

G.O.A.T.
peak Fedal > everything. Definitely the most classic, iconic, historically relevant matches produced

Best longevity/physicality of matchup - Djokodal

Best average, highest median, most likely to watch a decent match at random - Fedovic

Fedovic rivalry didn't involve their primes so it's a kind of let down to me.
 

GoatNo1

Professional
quite an incomplete analysis. Of course, in rivalries with rafa, a lot depends on the playing surface. BUT an incomplete analysis simply because it is up to nole in his any rivalry and his form (2011 breakthrough) is crucial.

if we look at nole's rivalries with bi4 before and after 2011:



and no, fed did not get suddenly old in 2011!


fed maybe get old vs nole but he definitely get younger vs rafa and muzza efter 2010!

rafa played his best tennis in 2010 and 2011. yet he went 0-6 in 2011 vs peak nole in 6 straight big finals on all surfaces (7 inclusive AO12)!

a similar scenario happened during nole's 2nd peak, 2015-2016RG (7 straight looses on all surfaces). and if for this second period it can be said that Rafa was not in shape for the 2011 season, that is definitely not the case!


noles h2h vs big 4 since 2011 by surfaces:

 

platypus50

Rookie
Agree, Djokerer was my favourite Big 3 rivalry for the reasons OP and others have already mentioned.

Never cared for Fedal - overrated and overhyped by the media, unfortunately Federer was too useless/mentally weak and soiled his pants whenever he saw Nadal on the other side of the net up until 2014 AO when Nadal led 23-10 in their H2H. I am glad that Federer won 6 of their last 7 matches but that was when Nadal had lost one of his biggest assets in his lightning quick court speed which enabled him to retrieve back so many shots that Federer would have registered as either unreturnables or winners against lesser players. Federer also finally changed to a bigger racquet which allowed him to hit backhands with depth and confidence - pity he didn't do this during 2008-09, too little too late in 2015-19.

As for Djokodal - way too predictable on HC after 2013 US Open (9 consecutive matches and 19 consecutive sets lost for Nadal - lol that's just pathetic), Nadal dominates on clay but at least Djoker has shown up to play against Nadal 10 times at RG whilst Nadal won't return the favour at either AO or Wimbledon. Too much gamesmanship in their matches (ridiculous ball bouncing, excessive time taken between 1st and 2nd serves along with in between points). I like Djoker and dislike Nadal but I'm calling it for what it is - their matches take way too long. 2012 AO final took almost 6 hours yet I am guessing that there were only 2 hours of actual play.
 

fedfan24

Hall of Fame
Federer djokovic at slams was NID after 2014 Wimbledon final. That was the last time I felt fed could be 50/50 or slight favourite.
 

D.Nalby12

G.O.A.T.
Unfortunately Federer couldn't beat Djokovic in slams post 2012. It became predictable thing in slams at least. Still Federer gave him tough fight everytime he lost. In Bo3 it was very unpredictable till the end. In fact Fed won their last Bo3 match at age of 38 ! Otoh Nadovic rivalry became too much surface dependent post 2013.
 

StrongRule

Talk Tennis Guru
In BO5 it was very much predictable after the USO 2011 choke. Federer had a surprise win in Wimbledon 2012, other than that you almost always knew who will win. There were 2-3 minutes during the Wimbledon 2019 final when there was hope that Federer might win it, but that ended quickly.

And while Federer did have wins in BO3, it mostly happened on fast hardcourt. On slower surfaces old Federer was usually losing.
 

Third Serve

Talk Tennis Guru
The Fedovic rivalry was the least likely to produce a dud but I wouldn’t call it the best because there are too few legit amazing matches. Even the US Open 2011 SF, their best match, kinda pales compared to Wimbledon 2008 or AO 2009 or AO 2012.

By far, Fedal has the best matches. Four of the top five best matches of all three rivalries are just from that one imo.
 

StrongRule

Talk Tennis Guru
The Fedovic rivalry was the least likely to produce a dud but I wouldn’t call it the best because there are too few legit amazing matches. Even the US Open 2011 SF, their best match, kinda pales compared to Wimbledon 2008 or AO 2009 or AO 2012.

By far, Fedal has the best matches. Four of the top five best matches of all three rivalries are just from that one imo.
That's debatable. Especially given the last 3 sets.
 

jl809

Hall of Fame
Exactly, it just felt so big and epic. Been a long time since tennis felt like that and I don't think it ever will again.

b_2000s_2007_Nadal_Federer_260949.jpg
Look at that vibe. Iconic. Country club Swiss money vs gym junkie just dragged off a local block basketball court. The home of tennis. And they dragged each other to hell and back 2 years in a row
 

_phantom

Hall of Fame
On the 20th anniversary of the site in 2016, tennis.com published a list of the most memorable matches of the last 10 years. There was only a single match of Fedovic there (RG 2011 at no. 16)

There is no index, but you can search in Google.


Edit: Found another - USO 2011 at no. 14.
 
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