First Machine

[masters_tennis]

I know that this topic has been covered a lot, but I haven't been able to find answers for my specific needs...so sorry if you're tired of responding to questions like this.

I have a budget of $400-$600 USD, I want a good 6-point mounting system and good fixed clamps. My main reason for getting a machine is to save on my own stringing costs, however, I do want to string for others. There is the potential that I would be able to gain the business of many of the local tennis players and string approximately 50-75 racquets/summer (I'm from Canada, so the tennis season is not very long). That is why I would like to be able to get a quality machine so that I could earn their business with consistent and quality string jobs. Also, I want a machine that I would be able to eventually upgrade with something like a 2086 CP. I guess my problem is that I'm basically trying to walk the fine line of getting a machine that would allow me to save money for myself but also allow me to explore the possibility of making a small side business with the stringing service (and if that takes off, upgrading to make it more efficient).

Keep in mind that I would prefer a quality, lower end machine rather than a bad, faster machine (ie: quality drop weight over bad manual spring tension), as long as I can upgrade it.

Please advise.

 

[rich s]

I would push the top end of your budget a little and look at the Alpha Revo 4000, Gamma Progression ST-II and the Gamma X-ST.

All are solid machines with solid companies backing them up ...all have solid fixed clamps and 6 point mounting and all can accept the Wise 2086 in the future if you decide to go that route.

 

[tennisadict]

Good choice Rich

 

[PBODY99]

I would advise you to push the budget a little and get one of the machines cited earlier. Machines hold up for years, so take the long term view. 200 customer stringings @ $ 3.00 of your price going to your machine fund and you will have recouped your cost, not counting the cash savings of doing your own frames.

 

[barry]

I know that this topic has been covered a lot, but I haven't been able to find answers for my specific needs...so sorry if you're tired of responding to questions like this.

I have a budget of $400-$600 USD, I want a good 6-point mounting system and good fixed clamps. My main reason for getting a machine is to save on my own stringing costs, however, I do want to string for others. There is the potential that I would be able to gain the business of many of the local tennis players and string approximately 50-75 racquets/summer (I'm from Canada, so the tennis season is not very long). That is why I would like to be able to get a quality machine so that I could earn their business with consistent and quality string jobs. Also, I want a machine that I would be able to eventually upgrade with something like a 2086 CP. I guess my problem is that I'm basically trying to walk the fine line of getting a machine that would allow me to save money for myself but also allow me to explore the possibility of making a small side business with the stringing service (and if that takes off, upgrading to make it more efficient).

Keep in mind that I would prefer a quality, lower end machine rather than a bad, faster machine (ie: quality drop weight over bad manual spring tension), as long as I can upgrade it.

Please advise.

Also consider where you are going to keep it. Most table tops are not easy to move around and store. My machine weighs 80 pounds and is a table top so I purchased a table to keep it.
If you do not have a table, then consider an upright on a stand. Either way if you are considering a Wise, then you need a crank machine. Otherwise you have to build a special adapter to accommodate the Wise mount. There are plenty of high quality machines under $600.
Also look on the big auction site, many companies are selling them at a discount.

Machine review site at

http://www.***********.net/mforum.php?PHPSESSID=03c1c51872cf2ecf7657fe4a3ecf911d

In case it is blocked s t r i n g f o r u m . n e t . They have user feedback on machine purchased.

 

[AtenSpro]

Hi, this is my first posting here but I have a little bit of experience with stringing. I'm a PTR certified tennis pro and I've had a Babolat Star 3 for over ten years. An Ektelon model H to which I added an Alpha Blu-DC table/clamps etc. was my first machine and I still own that machine as well. In your price range I see nothing that compares to the Eagnas Combo 910. If I was in the market today the key features I'd be looking for in a machine are there in the 910. It has a solid table with 6 point mounting similar to the Alpha BluDC Plus it also has spring action base clamps. The swivel clamps are the PN-1012 clamps which are a knock-off of the Babolat Sensor clamps. I've used these PN-1012 Eagnas clamps and to me they are excellent. As I look at the Eagnas website this morning this machine is right at the top of your price range but I don't see any other machine from any other company that has all of these features (important to me at least) for anything close to this price.

I see that all over this forum there are a lot of opinions about this company, some good some bad. My limited experience with them has been good. There is a slight language and culture difference. To me they come off as being direct or blunt but that's not offensive to me, especially when you consider the money differences. I have recommended their machines to my students in the past. Most are just asking out of curiosty but I did have the 2 who actually went through to the point of getting a machine. And each of these players was very happy with their purchase from them.

One thing I would add to the order of any machine is a calibrator. And I'd use it when I was setting up the machine and I'd recheck it after stringing my first racquet and thereafter as often as you feel the need to. The calibrator should be calibrated which sounds redundant but it's important that the tool you are going to be calibrating your machine with is accurate otherwise your machine may still be out of calibration. To calibrate the calibrator just hang some freeweights from it and make sure it shows the correct weight. If it's off, disassemble (unscrew) the calibrator and inside you will see some nuts that are locked together. Unlock them, screw them in the right direction, relock them, reassemble, and check with the freeweights again. My preferred weight to do this with is 60 pounds, it's kind of a hassle to hang the right freeweights from the calibrator to set it to 60 but 60 pounds is close to the middle of the range of where you probably will be stringing most tennis racquets on a lockout machine like the 910.

I hope this helps.

 

[mellofelow]

Atnspro,

Welcome to the forum and great suggestions. I too have kept my Ektelon in the corner of the garage after years of faithful of service. But, I won't debate you on recommending Eagnas because I also have the Combo 910.

I will however curious to know at this day and age of modern technology, would bother calibrating a mechanical calibrator. For the same price - if not less, you can have the precision right down to the every ounce/gram with a digital scale. And the only maintenaince is juicing it up with a fresh battery.

Here's a link to the thread (with pictures):

Stringer calibration gauge & technique

 

[barry]

Atnspro,

Welcome to the forum and great suggestions. I too have kept my Ektelon in the corner of the garage after years of faithful of service. But, I won't debate you on recommending Eagnas because I also have the Combo 910.

I will however curious to know at this day and age of modern technology, would bother calibrating a mechanical calibrator. For the same price - if not less, you can have the precision right down to the every ounce/gram with a digital scale. And the only maintenaince is juicing it up with a fresh battery.

Here's a link to the thread (with pictures):

Stringer calibration gauge & technique

Kind of not much to debate on the Combo 910, AtenSpro is right. Where else can you get a machine with all the features for less than $600.

 

[masters_tennis]

Thanks for the advice! I am considering pushing the top end of my budget up so I can get a quality crank machine.

 

[AtenSpro]

I really believe the Combo 910 is a quality machine. You could spend more and not get as much.

 

[masters_tennis]

I will look into the Combo 910. How does it compare to the Alpha Revo 4000, Gamma Progression ST-II and the Gamma X-ST? Does anyone know of any problems with the Combo 910? (just the machine, not anything to do with service please) How is it better than the Alpha and Gamma machines? Is it compatible with the Wise 2086? Rich S, is there a reason you did not suggest the Combo 910 other than their questionable service department?

 

[rich s]

I will look into the Combo 910. How does it compare to the Alpha Revo 4000, Gamma Progression ST-II and the Gamma X-ST? Does anyone know of any problems with the Combo 910? (just the machine, not anything to do with service please) How is it better than the Alpha and Gamma machines? Is it compatible with the Wise 2086? Rich S, is there a reason you did not suggest the Combo 910 other than their questionable service department?

I don't have any direct experience to draw from on the Eagnas so I don't comment on Eagnas.... but with all the mixed experiences that I have read about and all the heated debate that goes on over Eagnas, their CS and Quality, compared to Gamma and Alpha, I just assume steer clear of Eagnas.....especially when shipping charges for large items can get expensive if you want to exchange or return.

My experience in the past with all my dealings is you get what you pay for.

I own a Gamma and have viewed Alpha machines and other more expensive Gamma models (than my model) first hand and can feel good about recommending them.

I have never seen an Eagnas machine so I don't comment on them.

 

[Cruzer]

I would follow the advise of rich s and seriously consider one of the machines he lists. I have had a Gamma ST II for about five years and it is a very solid machine that I have never had a problem with. I added the Wise tension head several months ago and have been quite pleased overall with its performance.
I would be wary of the Eagnas machines. If you search these boards you will read about numerous disasterous experiences people had with the distributor of these machines. Some of the posters who love their Eagnas machines live in the LA area where the Eagnas distributor is located and they are able to physically go to their warehouse and look them in the eye and in most cases get their issues resolved. In my opinion buying an Eagnas when you are hundreds or thousands of miles away in a different country is too much of a crap shoot.

 

[masters_tennis]

Thanks guys for your advice. Cruzer, you mentioned that you were quite pleased overall with your upgrade with the Wise. Did you have any problems with it or with how it worked with your Gamma ST II?

Would you recommend getting a stand for it?

 

[AtenSpro]

The two people who bought Eagnas machines on my recommendation both live in Michigan and are very happy with them.

The major differences between the Combo 910 and the Revo 4000 to me are:

The base: the 910 has a floor stand and a larger tool tray... the 4000 is a table top machine.

The tables: the 910's table is a solid casting and the 4000's is sheet metal.

The base clamps: the 910's are spring activated and the 4000's are cone lock.

The string clamps: the 910's are the knock-off babolat sensor style. I've used these knock-offs and they work great. The 4000's clamps are the older style five finger clamps and they work fine too.

If you want to compare the model of the Eagnas that compares to the Revo 4000 look at the Eagnas Flex 840.

To compare the Combo 910 with an Alpha look at the Alpha Blu DC Plus.

 

[Masamusou]

The two people who bought Eagnas machines on my recommendation both live in Michigan and are very happy with them.

The major differences between the Combo 910 and the Revo 4000 to me are:

The base: the 910 has a floor stand and a larger tool tray... the 4000 is a table top machine.

The tables: the 910's table is a solid casting and the 4000's is sheet metal.

The base clamps: the 910's are spring activated and the 4000's are cone lock.

The string clamps: the 910's are the knock-off babolat sensor style. I've used these knock-offs and they work great. The 4000's clamps are the older style five finger clamps and they work fine too.

If you want to compare the model of the Eagnas that compares to the Revo 4000 look at the Eagnas Flex 840.

To compare the Combo 910 with an Alpha look at the Alpha Blu DC Plus.

I think you may be confusing the Revo 4000 with the older Revo 3000. The 4000 has the thicker casting turntable as well as the spring activated clamp bases. The older 3000 had the thinner table similar to what you can see on the Flex 940, and the conelock bases, but both of those things have been changed. The Alpha clamps are the 5-finger design, but I've never had any trouble fitting 5 finger clamps into anything. I assume if you did badminton racquets it could get difficult (usually have different clamps for those anyway), but never had any problems on tennis frames (including PC600s and older metal frames).

 

[AtenSpro]

I was looking at old Alpha information. Alpha has changed the specs on the Revo 4000. It now has the same table and base clamps as the Combo 910. Mid west Sports dot com has a great pic of the new version of the Revo 4000. TennisMachines dot com's pic is of the older version (as of today at least).

 

[barry]

I think you may be confusing the Revo 4000 with the older Revo 3000. The 4000 has the thicker casting turntable as well as the spring activated clamp bases. The older 3000 had the thinner table similar to what you can see on the Flex 940, and the conelock bases, but both of those things have been changed. The Alpha clamps are the 5-finger design, but I've never had any trouble fitting 5 finger clamps into anything. I assume if you did badminton racquets it could get difficult (usually have different clamps for those anyway), but never had any problems on tennis frames (including PC600s and older metal frames).

The 5 finger clamps came with my Eagnas (Pn-1002) machine, and I used them for 5 years, finally replaced them with the Pn-1012's ($39.95 each) which to me are much better and easier to use. Especially when stringing dense pattern rackets. The three fingered clamps are diamond dusted, and have a thumb wheel adjustment on the back. If you string 18 x 20 pattern rackets, you will like the smaller foot print. For me it was much easier to string.

I think the Combo 910 is the best crank machine for under $1000 you can buy. Basically my machine has all the same parts used on the 910; with the exception the 910 has a better mounting system. You can spend more, but look closely at what you are buying!

 

[Masamusou]

barry, I never said the 3-teeth design was inferior, just that I never had any problems with the 5-teeth design. I'm still using 5-teeth Neos clamps on my glide bar machine, stringing my 18x20 racquets with no problems. The 3-teeth design could be better, I have a hard time saying that because I've used a Sensor and I didn't feel that the 3-teeth clamps on the Sensor were any easier than the 5-teeth clamps I've used. Maybe if I strung on it more then it would be different, but from my limited experience with the 3-teeth design, I simply don't feel that it should be a MAJOR factor in deciding on a machine. The quality of the clamps and how well they hold should be more important than how many teeth they have. Just my opinion on that one though. Again, I agree that the Combo 910 has some serious potential so don't start calling me an Eagnas basher or anything, I simply do not have any experience with them so I will say this. The Combo 910 has serious potential, but I do not have any experience with it. I was simply correcting the previous statements that the Revo had different parts than it now does. By the way, the picture on tennismachines is actually of the Revo 3000 (I owned one for 5 years, so I would know what it looks like, the Revo 4000 is a brighter blue also).

 

[barry]

barry, I never said the 3-teeth design was inferior, just that I never had any problems with the 5-teeth design. I'm still using 5-teeth Neos clamps on my glide bar machine, stringing my 18x20 racquets with no problems. The 3-teeth design could be better, I have a hard time saying that because I've used a Sensor and I didn't feel that the 3-teeth clamps on the Sensor were any easier than the 5-teeth clamps I've used. Maybe if I strung on it more then it would be different, but from my limited experience with the 3-teeth design, I simply don't feel that it should be a MAJOR factor in deciding on a machine. The quality of the clamps and how well they hold should be more important than how many teeth they have. Just my opinion on that one though. Again, I agree that the Combo 910 has some serious potential so don't start calling me an Eagnas basher or anything, I simply do not have any experience with them so I will say this. The Combo 910 has serious potential, but I do not have any experience with it. I was simply correcting the previous statements that the Revo had different parts than it now does. By the way, the picture on tennismachines is actually of the Revo 3000 (I owned one for 5 years, so I would know what it looks like, the Revo 4000 is a brighter blue also).

Either 5 or 3 will work fine, for me it was easier with the 3's to fit between the strings. Plus my old clamps did not have the thumb screw, you had to use an allen wrench to adjust it. The diamond dust is pretty good, had my doubts, but overall I think they grip better.

 

[Cruzer]

Thanks guys for your advice. Cruzer, you mentioned that you were quite pleased overall with your upgrade with the Wise. Did you have any problems with it or with how it worked with your Gamma ST II?

Would you recommend getting a stand for it?

Other than my Wise unit was DOA due to a faulty AC connection it has been excellent arrangement. I got it fixed within a week however I live in California so the shipping time back and forth was not too long.
I have my stringer sitting on a Black & Decker Workmate stand and seems quite adequate.
If you go with the ST II and you later get a Wise tensioner (and this probably applies to the X-ST as well) you will need the $45.00 adapter so that when you mount the Wise unit the string gripper is level with the racquet. Herb Wise strongly recommended it when I bought mine as I was a little hesitant about it. He said I should try it and if I didn't think it was necessary I could return for a refund. It is a necessary accessory.

 

[barry]

masters_tennis

If you buy a machine for $600, the Wise will cost you another $600, so you have $1200 in a machine. I had a lot of problems paying $560 for my Wise, as it cost more than my entire machine. I do enjoy it.
You might take a look at a Silent Partner Aria; sometimes they put demo units on the big auction site for $1200. It was my first choice, but was outbid twice, so just upgraded my current machine with the Wise.
Verdict is still out, which is the best way to go, just buy the Electronic machine, or buy a crank and then the Wise.
Either way you are going to invest $1200 or more in a machine.

 

[barry]

There are a few Alpha machines for sale on the "For Sale or Trade board" at TW.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/search.php?searchid=758429

 

[masters_tennis]

Barry, I realize that I would eventually be investing that much. I was just wanting to explore that avenue so that if I ever wanted to upgrade I would know whether it would be a good investment or not. As of now, I still have that $600 budget and would not be able to afford $1200. I appreciate your advice though.

 

[Gaines Hillix]

Just to clarify, the Revo 4000 has been upgraded in the last couple of years. It has a very thick and heavy turn table and quick locking dual action swivel clamps. It is essentially a DC BLU without a stand.

 

[barry]

Just to clarify, the Revo 4000 has been upgraded in the last couple of years. It has a very thick and heavy turn table and quick locking dual action swivel clamps. It is essentially a DC BLU without a stand.

It looks a lot sturdier than the old one. Eagnas and Alpha must be buying the turn table from the same suppler. The Eagnas picture still shows the older 5 point clamps, which have been modernized, but they look identical. Maybe even the same base clamps, can’t swear to that.

 

[sharkey10s]

It looks a lot sturdier than the old one. Eagnas and Alpha must be buying the turn table from the same suppler. The Eagnas picture still shows the older 5 point clamps, which have been modernized, but they look identical. Maybe even the same base clamps, can’t swear to that.

Negative. Alpha's been rolling out their own models for a few years now. Biggest issue with them is getting enough supply to meet demand for Revo. Last time I emailed Mark G he said they've got a couple of new upright lockouts and a new electronic that is similar to the Orbitor SE but probably cheaper.

 

[barry]

Negative. Alpha's been rolling out their own models for a few years now. Biggest issue with them is getting enough supply to meet demand for Revo. Last time I emailed Mark G he said they've got a couple of new upright lockouts and a new electronic that is similar to the Orbitor SE but probably cheaper.

Lot cheaper to sub parts out then make them. As discussed earlier on another thread, the Alpha Orbitor is really made by Gosen, if I remember the thread right.
Nothing wrong with sub contracting, these days it cost a fortune to produce from scratch. Why not integrate the best of the best!

 

[Gaines Hillix]

Negative. Alpha's been rolling out their own models for a few years now. Biggest issue with them is getting enough supply to meet demand for Revo. Last time I emailed Mark G he said they've got a couple of new upright lockouts and a new electronic that is similar to the Orbitor SE but probably cheaper.

Is this deja vu or welcome back Sharkey?! That handle sure rings a bell. Anyway, Alpha now has their own factory. I have a picture of the new Alpha electronic machine. It's called an Equinox. The head unit still looks like the Orbitor SE, which was made by Poorex, but it's been upgraded inside. The turntable looks like the one on an Alpha Apex combined with features from a Babolat Star 5 or Sensor(circular clamp tracks). Here's a link to a picture of the Equinox.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y100/ghillix/33809820.jpg

 

[barry]

Is this deja vu or welcome back Sharkey?! That handle sure rings a bell. Anyway, Alpha now has their own factory. I have a picture of the new Alpha electronic machine. It's called an Equinox. The head unit still looks like the Orbitor SE, which was made by Poorex, but it's been upgraded inside. The turntable looks like the one on an Alpha Apex combined with features from a Babolat Star 5 or Sensor(circular clamp tracks). Here's a link to a picture of the Equinox.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y100/ghillix/33809820.jpg

So is the machine a Poorex with an Alpha name on it. Plus how much of it is actually made by Alpha.
On the 4000 question, I think the turn table looks the same as the combo 910, if you blow up the pictures. Maybe Eagnas is using the same supplier.
Nothing wrong with using other manufactures equipment and putting your logo on it. Values added, Dell and Gamma do it all the time.

 

[Gaines Hillix]

Nope, the Orbitor SE was made by Poorex, but the Equinox is not per Mark at Alpha. Alpha now has their own manufacturer. They aren't rebranding this machine. Nothing wrong with that, but a company has more control over features and quality when they are in-house instead of just rebranding someone else's work.

 

[barry]

Nope, the Orbitor SE was made by Poorex, but the Equinox is not per Mark at Alpha. Alpha now has their own manufacturer. They aren't rebranding this machine. Nothing wrong with that, but a company has more control over features and quality when they are in-house instead of just rebranding someone else's work.

Is the turn table on the Alpha 4000 the same one used on the Eagnas combo 910. Maybe Eagnas is getting there's from the Alpha factory. They sure look the same in the pictures.

Not sure what an Equinox is, difficult to find current pictures of Alpha machines through Google. Alpha is probably not paying Google enough to get to the top of the list.

 

[Gaines Hillix]

I posted a link to a picture of the Alpha Equinox earlier in this thread. Here's another one;

http://www.upload2.com/freeimagehosting/84d29e41b5839f3e4fb213f4ef4b9048.jpg