? for tennis parents re: coaches @ tourneys

[crosbydog]

My 13 y.o. has been training 1+yrs w/ the same
coach. After a lesson last Mon the coach said she would come and watch my daughter at a local (30 minute drive) important tournament. The coach went to the boys version of the tourney a few weeks ago even though the coach had no private lesson students attending (just group lesson kids). My daughter went to a tie breaker the first match, where if the coach had bothered to come, the coach could have offered tips on how to win. My daughter subsequently lost her 2nd match to someone she typically beats. Had the coach shown up she'd know what to work on in future lessons.
In FL, it seems like the coaches travel to tournaments - in the middle of the country where we are, it seems like parents are just the coach's personal ATM machine.
So how is it with your kid's coach? Do they care enough to come to local tournaments?

 

[LakeSnake]

Er... you expect the coach to drive thirty minutes and watch your daughter play for free, is that it?

 

[Easy Rider]

Im paid to travel with player I coach ... end of story

 

[MasturB]

If parents are paying me more than one day a week to teach their kid, you can be sure if the tournament is within a 45 minute drive I'll be there if I'm free to watch and at least "look" like I care.

Once you transition from instructor to coach to a child, you should take it upon yourself to travel to watch a tournament at the very least.

Hell even if I was broke to drive, I'd ask the parent to car pool with them.

 

[goran_ace]

Im paid to travel with player I coach ... end of story

^^^ This. The kids who had coaches on site were usually coached by their parents, the tournament was held at the home club so he would be there anyway, or the coach was chaperoning a trip for several of his players (paid of course).

 

[goran_ace]

So how is it with your kid's coach? Do they care enough to come to local tournaments?

Here's the thing. If the coach said he'd come and didn't, ok his bad. But expecting the coach to watch your kid without compensation is unreasonable. That's great if he's willing to do it, but don't expect it. Not all coaches are well salaried at their clubs (usually only the director or manager) and most of their income comes from how many hours they put in on the court. So not only is your coach not getting paid to be there, but that also means missing out on hours at the club. Weekend hours are pretty steady so it's not even free, it's like taking money out of his pocket. At my club there aren't enough hours to go around to support all the full time staff forcing some to move to part time status and either moonlighting at another club or taking a side job at night.

 

[BMC9670]

My After a lesson last Mon the coach said she would come and watch my daughter at a local (30 minute drive) important tournament. The coach went to the boys version of the tourney a few weeks ago even though the coach had no private lesson students attending (just group lesson kids).

Here's the thing. If the coach said he'd come and didn't, ok his bad. But expecting the coach to watch your kid without compensation is unreasonable.

Agree with goran_ace… and reading the OP again, the coach said she would come and did so for the boys. Bad form, IMO.

 

[Chotobaka]

Agree with goran_ace… and reading the OP again, the coach said she would come and did so for the boys. Bad form, IMO.

And, we have the winners. Making a promise and breaking it without explanation is truly bad form.

 

[sureshs]

Her time is her time. Pay for it or expect nothing.

 

[The forehand]

You can't react like that it just irritates me so much. It is his time and only a kind gesture that he said would come and watch.

 

[Crisp]

Usually I try to co-ordinate players I work with if it makes sense for them to be competing that they are competing in the same place so I can go along when its 20-30mins away. I'll view lots of players, see who theyre losing to beating, try work out why so I know what to coach, I'll advise the players about hydration nutrition and tactics maybe reinforce some stuff we're working on, i'll do physical warm ups with them individually or as a group depending on match times all for free as part of their group/individual lessons.

If its a journey, or im busy and not organized by me the attending players can feel free to split the cost of my attendance as much as they like, and depending on distance that can include accom and travel and an hourly rate which can add up, I will do all of the above and probably chart a bunch of matches for them and their opponents, take proper cool downs. I'll hit and drill with the players if need be. String rackets if need be.

Really whats needed is player/parent education on nutrition, recovery, warm-ups, match charting and hydration. Personally I dont think I'm value for money at a tournament as an on site coach if youre paying but I have to charge that much as thats what im losing if I'm not on court coaching. The only thing I can do at tournament that could be an issue for a player is string or feed specific drills and coach. If players and parents became better at charting they could do this all on their own, and feed me the info back for our sessions. Nutrition and prep in general is pretty simple and better if the players can do on their own. Tournaments are a lost learning environment imo. 14+yos should be budgeting their own trips and learning how to do that, life skills to be learned that just arent most of the time.

I like your thinking here. Sometimes I attend tournaments with a player that has paid for my attendance and another player is there that I also coach. I feel the pull of both players, do I stay and watch the player that has not paid for my attendance or do I leave and the other player thinks I don't care and only came to watch so and so. Unlikely they would realise I have been paid to attend.
Here is what I attempt to do:
Attend tournament matches if it does not conflict with my earning potential for free, if it does effect my earnings then I need to be paid. When I am attending matches in my free time to watch my players I prioritise main draw matches over consolation and will work my on court coaching around main draw not consolation. I also try to prioritise the amount of dedication the player is showing me with regards to work ethic, training and respect. A thank you for your attendance can go a long way with me in this regard.i beleive coaching is tougher hours wise then most give credit for and I know it is a strain on my home life when I attend matches for free on weekends when I should be spending time with my family.

 

[Tcbtennis]

My kids train in FL and their coach frequently attends their matches as well as the matches of the other members of his small academy. We met him at tournaments because he was always there with the kids he trains. He coordinates many practice matches with players he meets at these tournaments with his kids. He doesn't expect any compensation for any local tournaments but if he or other coaches travel to a tournament requiring hotel accommodations, etc. the parents will cover those expenses. A result of his presence at tournaments is that his academy has grown from 1-2 kids a few years ago to almost 20 with 3 additional coaches and 1-2 local college players who help out. The kids who train there are highly ranked sectional players.

Our previous coach, the one my kids were with for almost 6 years, rarely attended their matches. My son was the only kid who trained there who had a very high sectional ranking. This coach would tell us why our son would lose a match even though he never saw it. He would make promises that he never kept. And we stayed there way too long due to some blind loyalty that I had for the coach. Looking back I can't even understand why I felt this loyalty.

In FL we have so many options available to us. So many good quality training programs and a lot of high quality competition. Good luck to you.

 

[Oz_Rocket]

My kids train in FL and their coach frequently attends their matches as well as the matches of the other members of his small academy. We met him at tournaments because he was always there with the kids he trains. He coordinates many practice matches with players he meets at these tournaments with his kids. He doesn't expect any compensation for any local tournaments but if he or other coaches travel to a tournament requiring hotel accommodations, etc. the parents will cover those expenses. A result of his presence at tournaments is that his academy has grown from 1-2 kids a few years ago to almost 20 with 3 additional coaches and 1-2 local college players who help out. The kids who train there are highly ranked sectional players.

Sounds a lot like my son's coach. At his first ever ranking tournament 300km from where we live this coach who was there with his students found out we were from the same city and invited my son to warm up with his kids. Within a few months he was coaching my son and part of our agreement is the coach's attendance at all local tournaments and the opportunity to pay for 4-6 away trips each year.

As for what to expect if a coach promised to show up I'd at least want an apology if they didn't show. Fair enough they're not being paid but any good coach will ask a player to show respect and commitment and this should be a two way street.

 

[Bendex]

Are coaches allowed to coach during the match there?

 

[tennis_balla]

Are coaches allowed to coach during the match there?

As far as I know, at a USTA tournament....no. Which is why to me this statement makes no sense.

My daughter went to a tie breaker the first match, where if the coach had bothered to come, the coach could have offered tips on how to win.

However, it doesn't matter. Useless thread, the OP has disappeared.

 

[sureshs]

You guys with limited reading comprehension:

OP did not mean coaching during the match. In the first match, the girl seems to have lost a tie-breaker but won the match. OP wanted coach to advise her how to handle tie-breaks in the future. In the second match, she lost, and OP wanted the coach to analyze the match and help her.

 

[tennis_balla]

After 30,000+ posts, said person would be an expert reader. My apologies Oh Great Bionic poster of TTW.












Could of been interpreted either way though Pink Shoes.....

 

[sureshs]

^^^ I didn't say anything about you. Why do you underestimate yourself?

 

[sureshs]

Could of been interpreted either way though Pink Shoes.....

In Basel 2 days ago:

 

[tennis_balla]

I talked about coaching during matches. Reading comprehension?

 

[arche3]

In Basel 2 days ago:

Sureshs,
You lost a lot of weight.

 

[julian]

Rare exceptions

As far as I know, at a USTA tournament....no. Which is why to me this statement makes no sense.


However, it doesn't matter. Useless thread, the OP has disappeared.

In the case of splt sets there is a 3 minute break.
Coaching has been legal in this break.
It is basically an exception.
Please google usta coaching rules for links.
Julian
PS A lot of junior tournaments have only a one set/pro set format.
So in this case you are correct,
Regards

 

[Oz_Rocket]

Are coaches allowed to coach during the match there?

Same as most places no coaching is allowed during matches in Australia at ranking tournaments.

Most of the time our coach will know something about the opponent (or will have watched them play during the tournament) and will provide a game plan or tips. After the match he'll provide feedback and things to work on for the next match. Then there's the usual warm up/cool down.

But the main thing is as we all know when you watch kids in a match situation under pressure they almost never play the same as when training, for better or worse. Then hopefully the coach can work with the kid to improve things if needed.

 

[Bendex]

The coach went to the boys' tournament because there was a group of them. Spending 10 hours waiting around at a tournament to watch one player play a few matches would be a pretty big commitment.

I've only done that for a highly ranked kid that I was working with 20 hours a week.

You can't expect a stranger to dedicate themselves to your kid without reward... that's your job. I suggest you spend your waiting around time at tournaments reading tennis books, then you can give the advice.

 

[sureshs]

Arche is back

 

[arche3]

Arche is back

What do you mean?

 

[BMC9670]

Her time is her time. Pay for it or expect nothing.

You can't react like that it just irritates me so much. It is his time and only a kind gesture that he said would come and watch.

You should expect people to do what they say they will do. I don't think it's a "kind gesture" to say you'll come and then blow it off. Part of being a professional is good communication.

 

[klu375]

You can't expect a stranger to dedicate themselves to your kid without reward... that's your job. :smile: I suggest you spend your waiting around time at tournaments reading tennis books, then you can give the advice.

I love this attitude. This is why we did not have a coach for the large part of my kid's junior career.
When she was young she had a coach who we met at a junior tournament where he was watching his students. This was a lowly 10U round robin tournament. He believed that he could not do his job right if he did not see what his students did during the real tournament matches. He also wanted to know the overall level in the section and what the top local players were up to. He would come to a nearby sectional even if none of his players were playing. Later I had to beg him not to cancel his lessons to come watch my kid play. In the beginning I was always surprised why I did not notice certain things that he did while both of us were watching the same match. He would never send me to read a book - he would always find time to explain everything. Eventually I learned enough to be useful.
A few weeks ago during a college match I met a coach who drove in 500miles with his wife and kid to watch his former student (now college junior) play college tournament. I believe they scheduled vacations around this event.
If you are lucky you may find a coach who has genuine interest in your competitive tennis player. The coach and the player have become like a family.

For all Ozzies and Canadians (and Sureshs)- during the USTA junior matches coaching is allowed during the 10 min break between the second and full third set and in some Sections - during the 3 min break before the match tiebreak. Obviously coach can make a difference at this point.

 

[SFrazeur]

I try to make as many matches as possible. But I cannot cancel lessons to do so. I feel for a coach to be as effective as possible they need to see how a player actually performs under match conditions.

I'm paid $50 an hour for private lessons. Top end in my area for not being at a club. If someone pays me that on a weekly basis I need to get my *** over there to a match 20 min a way.

 

[tennisdad65]

Sureshs,
You lost a lot of weight.

and lost your good looks too

 

[PhxRacket]

Interesting dissection of what I would call a "first world" problem. Was it bad form? Probably. Are the posters who clearly believe that "you get what you pay for" correct? Probably not. What we have here is a failure to give a @#$%. If you are a coach, then coach. If you promise to be at a local tournament to support a young player, then do so. If you have other important priorities, then say so and don't go to the tournament.

 

[LakeSnake]

Interesting dissection of what I would call a "first world" problem. Was it bad form? Probably. Are the posters who clearly believe that "you get what you pay for" correct? Probably not. What we have here is a failure to give a @#$%. If you are a coach, then coach. If you promise to be at a local tournament to support a young player, then do so. If you have other important priorities, then say so and don't go to the tournament.

Promising to come and flaking out was bad, no doubt. The coach may be the type who's not assertive enough to say "no", so that's his way of turning down the request. That's a quite common type, actually.

Are you a coach here in the valley?

 

[PhxRacket]

Not a coach, just a parent.

 

[Ash_Smith]

OP - rather than come on the internet to ***** about it, have you actually had a conversation with the coach to gain some understanding of the situation?

 

[sureshs]

You should expect people to do what they say they will do. I don't think it's a "kind gesture" to say you'll come and then blow it off. Part of being a professional is good communication.

The coach may have said it politely in order to avoid saying no or making up a lie on the spot.

Just the gas expenses alone requires compensation.

Recently, a community college coach was on a recruiting mission at a junior tournament at our club, and she told me she expenses the gas to the college as part of her job.

 

[BMC9670]

The coach may have said it politely in order to avoid saying no or making up a lie on the spot.

Uh…saying she will come with no intention of doing so IS a lie.

Sorry, this person is supposed to be a professional. She should act like one and do what she said she would do or just say no up front.

 

[sureshs]

Uh…saying she will come with no intention of doing so IS a lie.

Sorry, this person is supposed to be a professional. She should act like one and do what she said she would do or just say no up front.

Doesn't work that way in real life.

It is technically not a lie. A lie is telling something false about a true fact. You cannot lie about the future because it hasn't happened yet.

People lie all the time. If she was forced into coming to the match, she would be in an awkward situation and said OK just to stop the conversation. She might also have said yes, then thought about the gas money and other commitments, and decided it was too awkward to call and ask for money.

 

[BMC9670]

Doesn't work that way in real life.

It is technically not a lie. A lie is telling something false about a true fact. You cannot lie about the future because it hasn't happened yet.

People lie all the time. If she was forced into coming to the match, she would be in an awkward situation and said OK just to stop the conversation. She might also have said yes, then thought about the gas money and other commitments, and decided it was too awkward to call and ask for money.

That's such semantic BS. If this is the way a paid professional operates "in real life", look elsewhere. Just because people lie to weasel out of "a conversation" doesn't make it OK. Very unprofessional by any standard.

 

[BMC9670]

It is technically not a lie. A lie is telling something false about a true fact. You cannot lie about the future because it hasn't happened yet.

Technically it is...

Lie: noun/verb

1.a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.

2.something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture:

3.an inaccurate or false statement; a falsehood.

4.the charge or accusation of telling a lie:

5.to speak falsely or utter untruth knowingly, as with intent to deceive.

6.to express what is false; convey a false impression.

7.to bring about or affect by lying (often used reflexively):
to lie oneself out of a difficulty; accustomed to lying his way out of difficulties.

 

[sureshs]

All that is great, but it just doesn't work that way. Putting pressure on someone to drive 30 minutes each way without payment will result in such responses. For all you know, she might have just said "I will try my best."

 

[BMC9670]

All that is great, but it just doesn't work that way. Putting pressure on someone to drive 30 minutes each way without payment will result in such responses. For all you know, she might have just said "I will try my best."

You're speculating to support your losing argument. You don't know that the OP "put pressure" on the coach any more than the coach might have said "I will try my best". The OP simply stated that the coach "said she would come".

 

[LakeSnake]

The OP seems to have been a drive-by poster who just came on here to vent. Not exactly an air-tight case.

The idea that the coach should come on his own time springs from a sense of entitlement. We don't expect doctors or lawyers to do that kind of thing, but people just scraping by in a difficult profession are supposed to, apparently.

 

[BMC9670]

The OP seems to have been a drive-by poster who just came on here to vent. Not exactly an air-tight case.

The idea that the coach should come on his own time springs from a sense of entitlement. We don't expect doctors or lawyers to do that kind of thing, but people just scraping by in a difficult profession are supposed to, apparently.

Crosbydog has been here a while. If a doctor told me they would come by the house and check up on my sick kid, I would expect follow-through. Of course, a doctor wouldn't say that. The coach simply should have been straight up and said she would not be at the tournament. End of story.