Forehand: straight or bent arm?
- Thread starter anubis
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M
MurrayMyInspiration
Guest
Djokovic-bent arm
Simon-bent arm
Tsonga-bent arm
Murray-bent arm
Berdych-bent arm
Majority of pros-bent arm
Verdasco-straight arm
Fed-straight arm
Nadal- straight arm
If I had a child to train from scratch. I would choose to teach them straight arm. If you really work tirelessly on footwork and technique, straight arm can be devastating.
Topspin Shot
Legend
If I had a child to train from scratch, I would choose to teach him whatever he gravitated toward. Individuals should not be forced into one method of stroke production. Both the bent and straight arm forehands are acceptable.
psv255
Professional
Straight vs bent is very much a thing of comfort, just like forehand grip/stance. It tends to be that most people are more comfortable with a degree of bent arm, usually easier to time and adds stability. What's more important is that, bent arm or straight arm, your elbow is a good distance away from your body and not glued/cramped in to your side.
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MurrayMyInspiration
Guest
I would teach straight arm but if they had a massive problem with it I would allow them hit bent arm.
Straight arm has more potential if maximised.
More spin, power.
Does any ATP pro have a straight arm that has a bad forehand? Delpo straight sometimes (mostly bent though) but not like spanish forehand bent.
Verdasco huge, Nadal huge, Federer majestic.
M
MurrayMyInspiration
Guest
Straight arm, needs a lot of work ,a lot alot of work. If you get perfect technique on it and insist on them practicing footwork all the time then it can be one of the most devestating weapons on a tennis court.
hrstrat57
Hall of Fame
Agree MurrayMI but especially with my son we hit enough balls to be able to teach it.....thousands a day at times. I actually mistakenly from my T 2000, 200G, PS85 days and watching countless pros up close that the bent arm approach was safer and easier to generate top. Was I wrong at the time? Certainly straight arm forehands were few and far between....and I would have had to modify my game to demonstrate it. I firmly believe if you can't demonstrate a shot you shouldn't be teaching it. I know some disagree with me but that if my firm old school opinion.
Perhaps a lot of it is due to poly string, I don't know.
I do know that for example Nadal's lefty crosscourt angled forehand is a shot that didn't exist 25 years ago when my 5 year old was starting his quest.
Devastating is an understatement. I think our game is changing fast.
Great thread, looking forward to what folks have to say about the topic....
5263
G.O.A.T.
I believe the bent is more consistent and versatile, while just as powerful.
Agree 100%. Coming from a batting sport my son's natural instinct is to play his groundies with a bent arm. The problem is that his elbow ends up tucked in to his side and his non-dominant hand is similarly close to his body.
His hand/eye coordination is excellent so he will nearly always middle the ball and be able to direct it quite well with a fair bit of pace. But he ends up with poor balance and generating poor spin and power through the legs and hips.
Topspin Shot
Legend
The sample size of straight arm forehands on the ATP tour is I believe too small to jump to a conclusion like that. There are advantages and disadvantages to the two forehands to the point where I don't think one is better than the other.
5263
G.O.A.T.
where do you get this info?
Denis Istomin's straight arm fh is iffy under pressure - he pushes it quite a bit. when he's loose and going for the shot, no problem, but having seen him play in the 3rd set of a masters vs a guy ranked over 200 spots below him, his forehand is not that great.
Mardy Fish. Super smooth bh. forehand not as natural
5263
G.O.A.T.
Sure Fed hits a ton of great Fhs, but also it sputters quite often as well, along with a ton of mishits as well. Verdasco is quite prone to spraying Fhs everywhere.
M
MurrayMyInspiration
Guest
It was proven, learned that from this site. Someone knowledgeable think one of the science tennis nerds on here.
5263
G.O.A.T.
Well the Fh's I've seen over 123 mph were bent arm and that is faster than you ever need to hit...so don't guess top end mph is very relevant since bent can give you more than ever required.
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MurrayMyInspiration
Guest
Istomin hits bent arm.
Fish has a worthless forehand.
Dimitrov hits straight a lot of the time and his is world class.
Looks like the majority of straight arms have incredible good forehands!
So is Nole. Infact they all make UEs from time to time.
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MurrayMyInspiration
Guest
Look I have a bent arm myself but a junior in my club plays straight arm and it is the best shot I have ever seen in my life, the things you can do are endless.
5263
G.O.A.T.
I agree with that...people can do amazing things
I think this question was subtly modified in the responses to straight versus bent arm at contact.
Virtually every top pro will have a straight arm immediately before starting the forward swing, ie just after PTD. Most transition to a bent elbow position as they come forward. I would say Fed and Rafa have the two best FH's and they are straight elbow.
The problem with a bent elbow is that it is easy to let it get very close to your body, which is a weak position. Look at Nole. He has a bent elbow but he keeps it well away from his side.
ace_pace
Rookie
Lol I love these straight vs bent arm forehand discussions. From my understanding, long story short, straight arm forehands have higher topspin potential but virtually on par with bent in terms of power. However, because of the higher topspin potential, those who use it can afford to hit harder or go for crazier angles. Note that straight arm forehands require better footwork in general.
I found it funny in that the straight arm forehand is very counter-intuitive to learn. I found that if you want the hit the ball with more pace, you have to relax your arm more, not tense it. Its like your uncoiling off the ground and dragging your arm along for the ride.
I found it funny in that the straight arm forehand is very counter-intuitive to learn. I found that if you want the hit the ball with more pace, you have to relax your arm more, not tense it. Its like your uncoiling off the ground and dragging your arm along for the ride.
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At first it is counterintuitive, but then you realise that your biceps and triceps work in opposite direction.
It's the same with punching, you get much more power if you punch with a relaxed arm. And using your core & legs will increase your power by order of magnitude.
GoudX
Professional
Gonzalez had a lot of bend in his forehand, and he probably had the most powerful forehand in the game. Berdych, Djokovic, Tsonga, Almagro, etc... All hit massive forehands with a double bend in their arm. If anything, more of the big hitters seem to hit with a bend in their arm. However, the players you list do seem to be the players who hit with the most spin, so it probably helps with that.
I wouldn't advise the straight arm forehand to a player who isn't playing at least 4-5 times a week.
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MurrayMyInspiration
Guest
Yes. Great post man!
Junior in my club has feds forehand to a tee. His dad was tossing balls at him when he was in the cot though and he practically lives in the tennis club.
ace_pace
Rookie
Hmmm didn't know that
(about punching). I assumed it was better to be tense as I thought you would want to be able to keep the arm stable on impact. I do agree about the core & legs, if I knew they were so important before, I probably would've ended up better off in tennis than I am now. Never realized I over analysed everything back then, especially without building a good foundation of basic fundamental skills first.Hmmm didn't know that
It's the illusion of power. Ideally you want to keep your wrist square on contact AND have your bicep and tricep loose. It takes time to develop the muscular control required to do this.
Try it, you'll be amazed at the difference.
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anubis
Hall of Fame
Again, thanks guys, great information.
Played a singles match last night, and due to the lack of willing partners, I was paired up with a 2.5. I used it as an opportunity to work on figuring out what works best for me, since I had a lot of easy shots with plenty of time to set up.
With a bent arm forehand, I noticed that it was much easier to blast forehands when the ball was closer to shoulder height. With a straight arm, it is a lot harder to hit those.
When the ball was low, straight arm was easiest. I got more topspin, which kept the ball low over the net (and ultimately in play).
However, with a bent arm, I had more pain in my wrist, which means I'm not pulling enough on the racquet, and more prone to "wristing" the ball.
With a straight arm, no chance at all for me to wrist the ball, a lot easier to really yank that frame forward and use it's inertia to create pace.
I guess all in all, straight arm feels more "correct", but ultimately it is harder to implement. I guess I just need to keep at it!
Played a singles match last night, and due to the lack of willing partners, I was paired up with a 2.5. I used it as an opportunity to work on figuring out what works best for me, since I had a lot of easy shots with plenty of time to set up.
With a bent arm forehand, I noticed that it was much easier to blast forehands when the ball was closer to shoulder height. With a straight arm, it is a lot harder to hit those.
When the ball was low, straight arm was easiest. I got more topspin, which kept the ball low over the net (and ultimately in play).
However, with a bent arm, I had more pain in my wrist, which means I'm not pulling enough on the racquet, and more prone to "wristing" the ball.
With a straight arm, no chance at all for me to wrist the ball, a lot easier to really yank that frame forward and use it's inertia to create pace.
I guess all in all, straight arm feels more "correct", but ultimately it is harder to implement. I guess I just need to keep at it!
M
MurrayMyInspiration
Guest
Istomin:
He hits it bent more often than he hits it straight. Watch his matches, always seems to be bent.
GoudX
Professional
The straight/double bend forehand isn't really an 'either or' situation. In real play you need to be able to make small changes at the last second to get good contact. Pros will vary how straight their arm is if they don't judge the bounce right or something. For instance you will often see Federer hit a bent arm forehand if he can't get far enough from the ball to straighten his arm. You need to be flexible with your technique, but try to get it where you want.
If you have all the time in the world you can hit with your arm exactly where you want, but changes in height and side to side position will change individual shots.
Topspin Shot
Legend
You're right. It's more of a tendency than anything else, if that makes sense. Guys like Federer and Nadal tend to hit with a straighter arm but will hit with a bent if necessary whereas guys like Djokovic and Murray (and me
) tend to hit with a bent arm but will straighten it out if necessary.Straight arm offers the most potential for power.
Look at sports that revolve around throwing (American Footbal, Baseball, Javelin) and you'll notice they straighten out the arm before the release.
During the serve the arm is straight just before contact. The forehand is basically a horizontal serve.
Bent arm is fine though, there's more to tennis than hitting hard.
GoudX
Professional
All of those examples are of power from a straight arm are from overhead throwing. You aren't throwing the racquet are you? :shock:
The forehand is nothing like the serve, as you don't have the same ability to plant your weight in a certain place and accelerate the racquet with a massive coiling of the back, legs and shoulder. As you have to generate power at a random point on the court with little warning, the shot is about the ability to generate power dynamically, with a precise contact. As such, swing speeds are much slower on the forehand. This means that the radius of the swing (which is increased by a straight arm) doesn't need to be maximised like it is on the serve, as you don't have the strength of the entire body helping to accelerate the racquet to high speeds, so you are less able to take advantage of the extra pivot distance. The double bend allows the easier acceleration of the racquet head, because of the shorter pivot, and allows easier lining up of the shot, meaning you end up with roughly the same contact swing speed as the straight arm.
I don't think these forehands would be any bigger with straight arm technique...
Djokovic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALoaRjgdfVM
Gonzalez: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu5qFYumKes
Monfils: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekMRt7sw-_k
Soderling: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nr12GX832k
Vlad_C
Semi-Pro
I would just add, from personal experience, that hitting with a straight arm most of the time is more likely to lead to some kind of shoulder injury, especially if you're using a heavy racquet.
When hitting with a straight arm, the racquet travels on an arc of larger radius, and the centrifugal force will be greater. IE more strain on your shoulder muscles.
When hitting with a straight arm, the racquet travels on an arc of larger radius, and the centrifugal force will be greater. IE more strain on your shoulder muscles.
dominikk1985
Legend
no, it is a totally different motion. the straight arm FH is actually more like a cricket bowl than an overhead throw. the anatomy of the arm doesn't allow the same elbow action like in an overhead throw.
straight armers will straighten their arm just after first move forward and then leave it straight while in the overhead throw the forearm will lay back and then extend in the last second. the SA FH has nothing in common with an overhead throw in fact I would say that the DB FH is actually a little closer to the overhead throw because you have the ability of forearm lag (but still not very similar).
THE FIGHTER
Hall of Fame
where do you get this info?
THE FIGHTER
Hall of Fame
fish has a great forehand when he flattens it out.
i dont think istomin hits with a straight arm. and his elbow is kind of tucked in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNqnAjL9OxY
THE FIGHTER
Hall of Fame
i wouldnt advise explosive movement to anyone who isnt playing 3-4 times a week.
this sounds ludicrous. it isnt much harder to learn the straight arm than it is to learn the double bend, if at all.
watungga
Professional
Straight arm forehand requires tremendous concentration on the ball. Knowing ahead where that ball would land once it got hit by your opponent. Failure to do so, will create an enchilada of health issues like tennis elbow, wrist troubles and developmental lags. Without anticipation skills, you will exert trouble-prone efforts just hit it with your straight-arm not in proper timing.
In short, it is only advisable for pros.
In short, it is only advisable for pros.
fuzzfactory
Rookie
I have always hit with a very slightly bent arm, but now I've been trying to straighten it out completely. I shank the ball almost 10x as much but when I get good solid contact, nothing feels better! Gonna work on my footwork and positioning a lot more to see if I can reduce those shanks. I think the payoff of being able to add more spin and power to your shots is worth the work.
Fintft
G.O.A.T.
Really, how so?
Fintft
G.O.A.T.
It might be the changing itself...Personally I almost never shank with straight arm, don't even hit on nearby courts more than once per match, not to mention sideways...
5263
G.O.A.T.
I say more versatile due to the extra ability to adjust to the incoming ball and as far as I'm concerned, the straight arm is something that a bent arm player uses as one of his adjustments. i know I do.
I say just as powerful due to all the big Fh records speeds I've heard of being recorded in the 124+mph range all being from bent arm Fh players. So at worse case, the evidence supports the power is there for the bent Fh players.
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