From Baseball to Tennis

[frequenicity]

Hey everyone! Been a longtime reader of the board and finally registered to begin posting and getting involved. I had a question to ask of anyone who has maybe made this transition before.

My situation is this: I am 25, and this past summer I began to focus on playing tennis again regularly after giving it up 10 years prior to focus mainly on baseball (not quite 100% confident with that decision now looking back, but can't really do much about it now). Before that, I had also played on a fairly consistent basis and had a pretty natural ability for the sport. Now, getting back into it, I find that I am quickly gaining ground in my tennis game, and I believe that once I get a chance to really work on my serve I could be a solid 3.5 player. However, I do run into road blocks on occasion. Aside from an inconsistent serve, my backhand is also quite weak (I was never a switch hitter) but it is getting better. My main problem, however, is spacing. In baseball, hitters are mainly focused on keeping your hands back, and pretty much letting the ball get close to your body before attacking. Tennis seams quite the opposite under most circumstances.

So my question is to anyone who has made a similar transition...apart from the physical patterns and muscle memory that needs to be changed, are there any mental tips that you have? I have heard from several people that going from baseball to tennis is a fairly difficult transition, so any tips you guys may have would be great.

 

[Itagaki]

Hey everyone! Been a longtime reader of the board and finally registered to begin posting and getting involved. I had a question to ask of anyone who has maybe made this transition before.

My situation is this: I am 25, and this past summer I began to focus on playing tennis again regularly after giving it up 10 years prior to focus mainly on baseball (not quite 100% confident with that decision now looking back, but can't really do much about it now). Before that, I had also played on a fairly consistent basis and had a pretty natural ability for the sport. Now, getting back into it, I find that I am quickly gaining ground in my tennis game, and I believe that once I get a chance to really work on my serve I could be a solid 3.5 player. However, I do run into road blocks on occasion. Aside from an inconsistent serve, my backhand is also quite weak (I was never a switch hitter) but it is getting better. My main problem, however, is spacing. In baseball, hitters are mainly focused on keeping your hands back, and pretty much letting the ball get close to your body before attacking. Tennis seams quite the opposite under most circumstances.

So my question is to anyone who has made a similar transition...apart from the physical patterns and muscle memory that needs to be changed, are there any mental tips that you have? I have heard from several people that going from baseball to tennis is a fairly difficult transition, so any tips you guys may have would be great.

personally i played baseball for about 12 years, stopping when i was 16 and then picking tennis up after high school(wish i had started sooner)

the transition wasnt too difficult, but that could be because i spent a year of no sports altogether...

The hardest part for me was learning to not overuse my arms for groundstrokes, mainly cause i was never taught how. The way i hit in baseball(and still do on occasion) uses my arms a lot more than my tennis strokes

basically i would treat tennis completely separate from baseball, dont try to associate certain aspects of the game with tennis, it might throw you off

by and large, i feel the mechanics for tennis differ greatly from baseball, even in terms of a backhand. More emphasis on hip and core muscle than the arms for generating power.

 

[Jracer77]

Actually, just like in baseball you don't want the ball to get too close to your body or you get jammed. This is much easier to accomplish in tennis because you have more time to adjust to the incoming ball. This allows you to keep your feet moving and position yourself correctly to hit a clean ball. Also if you pitched at all it relates very well to serving in tennis. You can even throw in a screwball (reverse spin) serve once in awhile to really confuse your opponent .

 

[Nellie]

One of the best servers I have ever seen was a college pitcher - 85 MPH fastball =>> 130MPH serve

Wow is all I can say when that goes down the T.

Regarding strokes - I think that a lot the weight shift will feel right. The modern tennis strokes are all about leading with hips for weight shift with a delayed actual swing to build tension and force.

 

[Camilio Pascual]

basically i would treat tennis completely separate from baseball, dont try to associate certain aspects of the game with tennis, it might throw you off...
by and large, i feel the mechanics for tennis differ greatly from baseball, even in terms of a backhand.

Good advice.
For example, I was a pitcher and find teaching the serve as being similar to baseball pitching is misleading.
Don't make a mountain out of a molehill. Baseball players tend to have excellent fine motor skills and quick reaction times. Most of the guys I've played with through the years seemed to have been baseball or basketball players. Football players don't seem to do as well at tennis, though most of them have excellent balance and footskills.

 

[Nellie]

Regarding the serving motion versus the pitching motion, FuzzyYellowBalls has a really interesting video that the serving motion is very similar to trying to throw a ball as a high as possible.

 

[mikeler]

I played baseball up to 14 years old and then switched to tennis. Are you using a 2 handed backhand?

 

[frequenicity]

Thank you all for your advice thus far.

Mikeler - When I was a kid I always just used a one handed backhand, so that is what I am currently using...though recently I have been attempting to learn a 2 hander as well.

 

[mtommer]

Ah yes, the switch from baseball to tennis.

Well, here's what I went through/am going through.

First, the sense of court spacing isn't there. Our strokes are grooved to hit and hit hard with no lines to worry about. Also, hitting is really about driving through the ball and high bat speed. In tennis, you need the spin to keep the ball down. When I started I was having a very hard time keeping the ball from going long. I still have this problem, though I'm getting better. I am a switch hitter and even though I'm left handed I'm most comfortable hitting right handed. As a result my two handed backhand is tennis pro speed but NOT tennis pro consistency. I tend to drive it hard but low into the net.

Like others have mentioned, hitting mechanics are a bit different. In baseball you hit more from the side and your weight transfer stays on the back foot moreso than in tennis. In tennis you need that transition to the front foot so you can be moving back towards the center of the court immediately after/while hitting (ie the follow through gets you going).

Another issue I've had is keeping my feet moving and learning footwork patterns and court placement (where I want to be etc.)

The pluses are good reaction times. If you can keep up with a 90-95 mph fastball you can keep up with 120-130 mph serves. You still have to learn to block the ball back instead of taking a swing at it but at least you can usually track it.

If you've played infield your movement should be pretty good for tennis. Fielding and moving side to side is the same but you have to resist the tendency to get to close to the ball, ie get used to NOT keeping the ball centered in front of you. For the longest time I was constantly overrunning balls until I had a Duh! moment and realized I was "fielding" the ball.

The rest is unique to tennis and just needs to be learned. Things like strategy, percentage hitting, etc.

 

[mikeler]

I played with a 2 hander for 2 years before switching to a 1 hander. When I started playing again after a 12 year break I started with the 2 hander until my arm got strong enough to hit the 1 hander again. So it may serve you well to try a 2 hander for a bit and then migrate back to the 1 hander after a few months.

 

[user92626]

"I am a switch hitter and even though I'm left handed I'm most comfortable hitting right handed. As a result my two handed backhand is tennis pro speed but NOT tennis pro consistency. I tend to drive it hard but low into the net."


Hey, i'm left handed, too, but I find that I can only bat baseball on the right side, which would be like 2hbh, right?



Speaking of baseball and tennis, yesterday I went to big 5 looking for a heavy and cheap bat thinking that I'd use it to practice my groundstroke swings. I honestly think that the two swings (baseball and tennis) share many similarities. Also, I always equate serving to baseball pitching. You can't have a weak serve if you know how to pitch powerfully.

 

[mtommer]

Hey, i'm left handed, too, but I find that I can only bat baseball on the right side, which would be like 2hbh, right?

Yup and it comes very naturally too because of being used to swinging.

Speaking of baseball and tennis, yesterday I went to big 5 looking for a heavy and cheap bat thinking that I'd use it to practice my groundstroke swings. I honestly think that the two swings (baseball and tennis) share many similarities. Also, I always equate serving to baseball pitching. You can't have a weak serve if you know how to pitch powerfully.

They do share similarities but there are also enough subtle differences that I would suggest not using a bat. If anything, just get a cheap racquet and use that. In baseball you use more of your arms in the hitting motion than you do in tennis. You have to learn to still your arms and I found this isn't natural after playing baseball. The opposite is true. You also have to work more on keeping the body upright as opposed to baseball were you lean into the swing just a bit as well as keeping the weight on your back foot more so you can elevate to and through the ball. In tennis you need to focus more on driving straight through but in an upward swing path to generate the spin. You also need to get that weight working through the follow through so that you are naturally already starting back into the center of the court (as opposed to hitting, following through and then starting back).

 

[frequenicity]

If you've played infield your movement should be pretty good for tennis. Fielding and moving side to side is the same but you have to resist the tendency to get to close to the ball, ie get used to NOT keeping the ball centered in front of you. For the longest time I was constantly overrunning balls until I had a Duh! moment and realized I was "fielding" the ball.

Wow....nail on the head there. I thought my spacing issue was coming from mentally still being in a "hit the ball" frame of mind for batting, but this makes a LOT more sense as to why I am getting too close...especially with balls on the run....I guess I didn't think of it as fielding because I was still thinking about ultimately hitting something...but that probably is the problem.

Very helpful response.

 

[charliefedererer]

Definitely work to stay far away from the ball, compared to fielding. If you have to reach a little, you can still hit a decent stroke. You can't hit a decent stroke if you jam yourself.

On the other hand, breaking to the ball after your opponent has hit it should start as soon as possible, just like as in fielding. But just like in fielding, for balls on the run, you don't want to get to the ball "too soon". It's best so you get to it "just in time" to "field it" letting your body's momentum carry you into the stroke, just like the throw to first.

Very few balls will be hit right to you, so taking that fielder's view will hold you in much better stead than considering yourself a hitter. The forehand stroke is more like the throw to first than hitting with a bat, especially if you had the ability to throw sidearm across the diamond. (In fact the "modern forehand" is very similar to a sidearm throw, but finishing with pronating your arm to generate that topspin. Pat Doherty calls end part of the stroke to generate topspin "leverage", but it is pronation, and it is this type of finish that is different than your sidearm throws to first. He continues on in this video to also give a baseball players's perspective of needing an open stance for shots hit out wide and a closed stance for shots hit at him: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZqh...69D7122A&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=31)

 

[user92626]

"You also have to work more on keeping the body upright as opposed to baseball were you lean into the swing just a bit as well as keeping the weight on your back foot more so you can elevate to and through the ball. "

mto,

I used to think that was important but i watched Nadal, who always seemed to lean forward, stoop down a bit, when he hit FHs and he's always consistent. So do Verdasco, Murray, ect.

Verdasco: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiXIIRG38zc&feature=channel

 

[charliefedererer]

Regarding the serving motion versus the pitching motion, FuzzyYellowBalls has a really interesting video that the serving motion is very similar to trying to throw a ball as a high as possible.

Here is that video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlPVdppfYGs&feature=related

Pat Dougherty says serving is really like pitching.

Maybe.

But only if home plate and your catcher are located in the second deck, and your best pitch is actually a screwball. (Screwball, because to generate maximum racquet speed you have to pronate your forearm and racquet just before you strike the ball. http://www.fuzzyyellowballs.com/vid...he-arm-moves-from-the-racket-drop-to-contact/)

 

[tyro]

Interesting question and responses. I've thought a lot about how baseball has helped--and hurt--my tennis game.

http://tenniswire.wordpress.com/2009/12/28/ball-games/

I tend to wait for the ball on my forehand side, rather than moving forward to attack it. I wonder if this is a legacy of waiting in the batter's box for the pitch to come into my strike zone.

--Tyro

 

[mtommer]

"You also have to work more on keeping the body upright as opposed to baseball were you lean into the swing just a bit as well as keeping the weight on your back foot more so you can elevate to and through the ball. "

mto,

I used to think that was important but i watched Nadal, who always seemed to lean forward, stoop down a bit, when he hit FHs and he's always consistent. So do Verdasco, Murray, ect.

Verdasco: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiXIIRG38zc&feature=channel

Some of this has to do with how your body "stops" (when compared to tennis) after hitting in the followthrough. In baseball you don't setup to get "quick" to first, you setup for solid contact. In baseball you're following the momentum of the bat, quick and smooth. In tennis you are following momentum of the body and carrying that into the next shot moreso than carrying to the momentum of the racquet (in the followthrough). In other words, the followthrough in baseball is much longer (overall arc) than that of tennis. This is the difference that the lean and weight transfer bring to baseball, hitting for distance, as opposed to tennis, hitting for placement and setup (and the differences can be very subtle adjustments).

I suggest keeping more upright etc. to lose the ingrained sense of hitting a baseball and relearning how to hit for tennis. Of course some people may be able to adjust without having to differentiate. I just think it makes it easier mentally to get past one's natural tendencies gained through many, many, buckets of balls in the batting cage.

 

[charliefedererer]

First, the sense of court spacing isn't there. Our strokes are grooved to hit and hit hard with no lines to worry about. Also, hitting is really about driving through the ball and high bat speed. In tennis, you need the spin to keep the ball down. When I started I was having a very hard time keeping the ball from going long. I still have this problem, though I'm getting better.

Topspin.

Tennis is all about topspin.

You have to generate topspin to tame your power on groundstrokes and serves from going long.

You have to make your transition from baseball to tennis a dedication to hitting powerefully with topspin to curve your ball down and into the court.


Position players in baseball just hit without regard to spin, hence the difficulty in their transition to tennis.

(Conversely, golf is all about taming power with backspin. You generate the backspin in golf with the loft in your club head. And you'll need backspin in tennis on all your volleys, and eventually a backspin slice backhand to have a wicked low bouncing changeup.)

 

[charliefedererer]

Some of this has to do with how your body "stops" (when compared to tennis) after hitting in the followthrough. In baseball you don't setup to get "quick" to first, you setup for solid contact. In baseball you're following the momentum of the bat, quick and smooth. In tennis you are following momentum of the body and carrying that into the next shot moreso than carrying to the momentum of the racquet (in the followthrough). In other words, the followthrough in baseball is much longer (overall arc) than that of tennis. This is the difference that the lean and weight transfer bring to baseball, hitting for distance, as opposed to tennis, hitting for placement and setup (and the differences can be very subtle adjustments).

D

Don't you agree the followthrough in tennis is much more akin to the followthrough from throwing a ball sidearm to first (but with pronation tacked on) than the followthrough from a baseball swing?

 

[charliefedererer]

Interesting question and responses. I've thought a lot about how baseball has helped--and hurt--my tennis game.

http://tenniswire.wordpress.com/2009/12/28/ball-games/

I tend to wait for the ball on my forehand side, rather than moving forward to attack it. I wonder if this is a legacy of waiting in the batter's box for the pitch to come into my strike zone.

--Tyro

Interesting observation that the serve is much more akin to passing a football with the pronounced pronation needed to throw a spiral than to any pitch except a screwball.

What do you think about the analogy of tennis play being much more like being a fielding/sidearm throwing infielder than a batter?

 

[mtommer]

I wonder if this is a legacy of waiting in the batter's box for the pitch to come into my strike zone.

I've found this too. I have a tendency against slower servers to stand about a couple of feet from the service line. I had one guy ask me why I was pressuring his serve when it clearly wasn't a point maker for him. I told him I wasn't trying to pressure him. Instead, what I was doing was playing the bounce at my strike zone. The waiting mentality also kept me from moving a lot between shots. Now that I've recognized it I'm working on keeping my feet moving. It's still a struggle though as I naturally don't "think" to move.

 

[mtommer]

Don't you agree the followthrough in tennis is much more akin to the followthrough from throwing a ball sidearm to first (but with pronation tacked on) than the followthrough from a baseball swing?

Ummm....I think maybe yes and no. I think the starting part would be more similar. However the followthrough, at least on my sidearm, goes more towards the direction of the ball whereas the tennis swing continues on, similar more to a bat swing.

 

[ttbrowne]

Don't you agree the followthrough in tennis is much more akin to the followthrough from throwing a ball sidearm to first (but with pronation tacked on) than the followthrough from a baseball swing?

Actually I've always equated the sidearm throw with the approach shot. It's basically the same action and balance if you're throwing sidearm and you release from your front foot. Guess that's why it's natural for me.

 

[papa]

There certainly are a lot of former baseball players who now play tennis at fairly high levels.

 

[mikeler]

There certainly are a lot of former baseball players who now play tennis at fairly high levels.

I've played Dante Bichette (Google him) twice in a 4.5 singles league. The guy had a massive serve! I'd almost rather take my chances at the first serve bomb then deal with his huge kick second serve. He was inconsistent if you got the serve back but it was clear the guy was way superior to me as an athlete.

 

[Zachol82]

Hey everyone! Been a longtime reader of the board and finally registered to begin posting and getting involved. I had a question to ask of anyone who has maybe made this transition before.

My situation is this: I am 25, and this past summer I began to focus on playing tennis again regularly after giving it up 10 years prior to focus mainly on baseball (not quite 100% confident with that decision now looking back, but can't really do much about it now). Before that, I had also played on a fairly consistent basis and had a pretty natural ability for the sport. Now, getting back into it, I find that I am quickly gaining ground in my tennis game, and I believe that once I get a chance to really work on my serve I could be a solid 3.5 player. However, I do run into road blocks on occasion. Aside from an inconsistent serve, my backhand is also quite weak (I was never a switch hitter) but it is getting better. My main problem, however, is spacing. In baseball, hitters are mainly focused on keeping your hands back, and pretty much letting the ball get close to your body before attacking. Tennis seams quite the opposite under most circumstances.

So my question is to anyone who has made a similar transition...apart from the physical patterns and muscle memory that needs to be changed, are there any mental tips that you have? I have heard from several people that going from baseball to tennis is a fairly difficult transition, so any tips you guys may have would be great.

I don't see how your experience with baseball would hinder you in any ways with tennis. Maybe if you have a 2-handed forehand...but I'm not about to make fun of people who hits 2-handed forehands since a lot of them are extremely good with that unique style.

You'll probably get a few chuckles here and there whenever you hit a ball out of the court and someone yells "home-run!" But that's about all the connections the two sports have.

 

[mtommer]

You'll probably get a few chuckles here and there whenever you hit a ball out of the court and someone yells "home-run!" But that's about all the connections the two sports have.

You mean liiikkkeee this?

Home Run!

 

[papa]

I've played Dante Bichette (Google him) twice in a 4.5 singles league. The guy had a massive serve! I'd almost rather take my chances at the first serve bomb then deal with his huge kick second serve. He was inconsistent if you got the serve back but it was clear the guy was way superior to me as an athlete.

Yeah, I've hit and played practice sets with several former major league players and they can certainly pound the ball.

 

[whturner]

Baseball vs Tennis

Great thread and insights - some I agree with, some not. But baseball technique, as tennis, has variations which are personal. From 1946 I played baseball eventually into senior softball at a high level, until I gradually switched to tennis about 25 years ago. Many of the problems I have with tennis are due to problems overcoming entrenched muscle memory. The things I do well are those which directly translate from baseball skills. But infielders, outfielders and pitchers do things differently.
Half Volley - Simple for an infielder who has handled thousands of grounders on the short-hop. Not so for those outfielders who were never comfortable with ground balls. Some claim fielding ground balls and hitting curve balls is inherited, not learned.
Forehands. I have problems with the urge to hit a line drive over third base - not a tennis stroke! And of course I never tried to hit across a ball for topspin. My forehand is my problem stroke.
Drop Shots: Any good bunter can hit a good drop shot, not necessarily with severe backspin.
Serving If you are a good pitcher, you can develop a good spin serve. I could never throw a good curve ball and have trouble with spin serves. An infielder or outfielder has to throw straight and hard with no curve.
Net Play Ex-baseball players will not be intimidated. In general, hitting a ball at a net person who has baseball skills is not a winning tactic.
Overheads Fly balls are a fine experience for being able to track a lob - at least for me. I am more comfortable hitting an overhead with the ball on the fly than letting it bounce, which adds another variable.
Returning serves - As pointed out earlier fast balls (and especially fast-pitch softball) are good training for dealing with hard serves. Curve balls and spin serves are another matter.
There are a bunch of other similarities and differences, but this is too long already.

Cheers
Warren

 

[papa]

Great thread and insights - some I agree with, some not. But baseball technique, as tennis, has variations which are personal. From 1946 I played baseball eventually into senior softball at a high level, until I gradually switched to tennis about 25 years ago. Many of the problems I have with tennis are due to problems overcoming entrenched muscle memory. The things I do well are those which directly translate from baseball skills. But infielders, outfielders and pitchers do things differently.
Half Volley - Simple for an infielder who has handled thousands of grounders on the short-hop. Not so for those outfielders who were never comfortable with ground balls. Some claim fielding ground balls and hitting curve balls is inherited, not learned.
Forehands. I have problems with the urge to hit a line drive over third base - not a tennis stroke! And of course I never tried to hit across a ball for topspin. My forehand is my problem stroke.
Drop Shots: Any good bunter can hit a good drop shot, not necessarily with severe backspin.
Serving If you are a good pitcher, you can develop a good spin serve. I could never throw a good curve ball and have trouble with spin serves. An infielder or outfielder has to throw straight and hard with no curve.
Net Play Ex-baseball players will not be intimidated. In general, hitting a ball at a net person who has baseball skills is not a winning tactic.
Overheads Fly balls are a fine experience for being able to track a lob - at least for me. I am more comfortable hitting an overhead with the ball on the fly than letting it bounce, which adds another variable.
Returning serves - As pointed out earlier fast balls (and especially fast-pitch softball) are good training for dealing with hard serves. Curve balls and spin serves are another matter.
There are a bunch of other similarities and differences, but this is too long already.

Cheers
Warren

Good post - I enjoyed reading it.

One of the biggest problems I see with former baseball players is that they have a tendency to slap the ball or use way too much wrist on the forehand. The tennis swing is to generate lift and push whereas the baseball swing seems to be based on pure power.

Baseball players seem to be able to get in position and certainly aren't afraid of being hit by a tennis ball - sometimes they can be a little too aggressive and easy to lob.

 

[whturner]

Baseball vs Tennis

Good post - I enjoyed reading it.

One of the biggest problems I see with former baseball players is that they have a tendency to slap the ball or use way too much wrist on the forehand. The tennis swing is to generate lift and push whereas the baseball swing seems to be based on pure power.

Baseball players seem to be able to get in position and certainly aren't afraid of being hit by a tennis ball - sometimes they can be a little too aggressive and easy to lob.

So true (have you been spying on me on the court?)
I should expand a bit on the use of the wrist in hitting a baseball/softball. The very "wristy" hitters keep the bat cocked back until the last moment, then as the ball approaches the contact point, explosively roll the bat through the ball to the followthrough. These guys tend to be the pull hitters. Ernie Banks, Ted Williams and others were of that type. The other extreme is to generate bat speed early on as the initially cocked bat is released, and continue the swing through ball contact with much less wrist action. It is easier to hit to all fields with that swing, which seems to be more common these days. I think this is closer to the tennis stroke with the high racquet position prior to uncoiling into the ball.

"The tennis swing is to generate lift and push whereas the baseball swing seems to be based on pure power".
Exactly! If we hit a foul ball we get another swing. And we can't lose the point by hitting a ball beyond the baseline.

Cheers
Warren

 

[ttbrowne]

So true (have you been spying on me on the court?)
I should expand a bit on the use of the wrist in hitting a baseball/softball. The very "wristy" hitters keep the bat cocked back until the last moment, then as the ball approaches the contact point, explosively roll the bat through the ball to the followthrough. These guys tend to be the pull hitters. Ernie Banks, Ted Williams and others were of that type. The other extreme is to generate bat speed early on as the initially cocked bat is released, and continue the swing through ball contact with much less wrist action. It is easier to hit to all fields with that swing, which seems to be more common these days. I think this is closer to the tennis stroke with the high racquet position prior to uncoiling into the ball.

"The tennis swing is to generate lift and push whereas the baseball swing seems to be based on pure power".
Exactly! If we hit a foul ball we get another swing. And we can't lose the point by hitting a ball beyond the baseline.

Cheers
Warren

The wristy batter is not as common in baseball anymore. You're right, the wrist used to be rolled sooner but most great hitting instructors now have the wrists remaining behind the handle, and locked, longer to generate power. Hitters wrists, at the college and pro level are also a lot more powerful than when Banks/Williams played.

 

[charliefedererer]

Serving If you are a good pitcher, you can develop a good spin serve. I could never throw a good curve ball and have trouble with spin serves. An infielder or outfielder has to throw straight and hard with no curve.
Returning serves - As pointed out earlier fast balls (and especially fast-pitch softball) are good training for dealing with hard serves. Curve balls and spin serves are another matter.

Cheers
Warren

I enjoyed your take on the similarities and differences, and how your position influenced your skill set that was readily transferable to tennis.

Before we had good spin serves, my brother and I spent countless hours trying to perfect our curveballs, sliders, and screwballs. I really think that did make it easier to develop topspin, kick and slice serves. Throwing the screwball was a great preparation for pronation.

On the other hand, by the time opposing pitchers of my age group were developing good curve balls, I had hit thousands of returns off slice and kick serves from older players, and was greatly puzzled why my baseball teamates couldn't see a curve coming from a mile away and really smack it.

 

[whturner]

The wristy batter is not as common in baseball anymore. You're right, the wrist used to be rolled sooner but most great hitting instructors now have the wrists remaining behind the handle, and locked, longer to generate power. Hitters wrists, at the college and pro level are also a lot more powerful than when Banks/Williams played.

There was an advantage to being a pull hitter- typical of the extreme wristy hitter- previously. The shape and size of today's ball parks makes a lot of difference and takes away much of that advantage, especially with the current emphasis on home runs. In some of the old parks a howitzer would have been needed to reach the fence in left center, right center, or straightaway center field.

Although it is probably true on average, that hitters wrists, at the college and pro level are also a lot more powerful, I don't see that todays hitters have surpasssed the Ted Williams, Ernie Banks, and the other exceptional hitters. The last time I heard, Ted still has the record for the longest ball hit in Fenway park. And someone once said that Ernie Banks, due to his wrists, could hit the ball out of the catchers mitt.

Cheers
Warren

 

[whturner]

Actually I've always equated the sidearm throw with the approach shot. It's basically the same action and balance if you're throwing sidearm and you release from your front foot. Guess that's why it's natural for me.

I have to agree - a slice forehand approach down the line feels like a third baseman fielding a bunt and firing to first base. And it also feels something like trying to hit in the 1b-2b hole on a hit-and run, if one is a righthand pull hitter.

Cheers
Warren

 

[papa]

Ah,Ted Williams and Fenway. By all accounts today, there were about 200,000 at the last game BUT I was actually there. We didn't live very far away (Green Line) and growing up I saw many, many Braves and Red Sox games.

I'm not going to mention his name but a former big league pitcher who's Dad played a season for the Red Sox in the early 50's was serving some balls to me and actually broke my racquet and I'm not talking about the strings. This guy, now maybe 50, is one heck of a player, when he wants to but more importantly is a terrific guy. Although he was a left handed pitcher he plays tennis, including serving, with his right hand - figure that one out and its not because of injury.

 

[whturner]

Ah,Ted Williams and Fenway. By all accounts today, there were about 200,000 at the last game BUT I was actually there. We didn't live very far away (Green Line) and growing up I saw many, many Braves and Red Sox games.

I'm not going to mention his name but a former big league pitcher who's Dad played a season for the Red Sox in the early 50's was serving some balls to me and actually broke my racquet and I'm not talking about the strings. This guy, now maybe 50, is one heck of a player, when he wants to but more importantly is a terrific guy. Although he was a left handed pitcher he plays tennis, including serving, with his right hand - figure that one out and its not because of injury.

And there was Vern Stephens in Sportsmans Park, before there was Ted Williams, Vern Stephens and Fenway. I'm still bitter.

Cheers
Warren

 

[fruitytennis1]

I got a guy on my team who played baseball for 6-7years...Amazing net skills!!!!

 

[papa]

And there was Vern Stephens in Sportsmans Park, before there was Ted Williams, Vern Stephens and Fenway. I'm still bitter.

Cheers
Warren

Good old Vern Stephens - strange stance as I recall. Used something like the open stance in tennis, left foot was down the third base line and almost out of the batter's box. Infielder who played in the late 40's and maybe into the 50's - didn't have a long career (at least with the Sox) and died fairly young.

Another thing that came to my mind in discussing the "differences" between baseball and tennis players is the way the arms are used. Although some in tennis use a straight arm, on the forehand, baseball players almost universally keep their arms straight in hitting.

 

[LeeD]

Main thing is.... professional athlete is a good athlete, and good athletes can transfer over to another similar sport.
Weightlifters don't transfer well to table tennis or tennis, soccer or race car driving.
But ball sports to ball sports, any professional can transfer his god given natural athleticism to another ball sport.

 

[whturner]

Good old Vern Stephens - strange stance as I recall. Used something like the open stance in tennis, left foot was down the third base line and almost out of the batter's box. Infielder who played in the late 40's and maybe into the 50's - didn't have a long career (at least with the Sox) and died fairly young.

Another thing that came to my mind in discussing the "differences" between baseball and tennis players is the way the arms are used. Although some in tennis use a straight arm, on the forehand, baseball players almost universally keep their arms straight in hitting.

"Vern Stephens put up incredible offensive numbers as a shortstop but didn't make it into the Hall of Fame. An eight-time All-Star, he was in the top five in the MVP voting three times. He was a member of the 1944 St. Louis Browns, the only Browns team to play in the World Series". Sold to Boston in 1947
" ...During his years with Boston, Ted Williams was the only teammate who was able to regularly out-perform him offensively."
http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Vern_Stephens

But back to Tennis: I know I hit drives with my arms extended (baseball phrase) in Tennis with an eastern grip - I never considered hitting the ball in any other way and no instructor tried to change it. This has probably helped my one handed backhand. Now that you raise the issue I am wondering if it is a holdover from my past. I was a switch-hitter and on both sides tried to get the ball on the "fat part of the bat" (in tennis "sweet spot") at full reach. On the other hand, pitchers try to prevent the batter from doing that by throwing inside: then you can be too close to the ball, just like tennis.
I would love to hear a Tennis teacher expand on the issue. The first question that springs to my mind is whether the straight arm at contact is a function of the grip.

Cheers
Warren

 

[mtommer]

But ball sports to ball sports, any professional can transfer his god given natural athleticism to another ball sport.

Yes, the ahtleticism transfers over....but so does the peculiar tendencies native to each individual sport. What I've found is that my athleticism allows me to keep up with the college players around here. Their strokes just aren't overwhelming. On a good day I can go toe to toe but the thing is, the good days, well, I can't reproduce that. It comes and goes. I don't have the solid fundamentals to fall back on when I'm subconsciously not clicking. And, because I don't have the fundamentals, I can't "knowingly" click.

 

[mtommer]

I would love to hear a Tennis teacher expand on the issue. The first question that springs to my mind is whether the straight arm at contact is a function of the grip.

This is an interesting question. I've found I do the same thing as you. I don't know about you but whenever I try to the Semi or Full Western grip I find it incredibly ackward and I hit almost every ball into the ground.

 

[LeeD]

If you want consistency, you have to have played tennis 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year, for at least 5 years with good coaching.
If you don't have that base, forget consistency.
As for the straight arm. I don't believe anyone should TRY to hit straight armed. A slightly bent arm is stronger and more resistant to twisting and damage.
I can walk onto a court, hitting against a medium paced equally bad player...4.0 say, and use continental topspin forehands, EFH's, SW forehands, or full extreme Western forehands, and rally OK.
For a point with scoring, I choose extreme SW, palm almost facing straight up at the sky at impact.

 

[whturner]

Tennis strokes

LeeD - "If you want consistency, you have to have played tennis 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year, for at least 5 years with good coaching."

Did that with baseball from age 6 - but no hands on coaching. Tennis: no way to find the time: had a job and family by the time I took up tennis

LeeD -"As for the straight arm. I don't believe anyone should TRY to hit straight armed. A slightly bent arm is stronger and more resistant to twisting and damage."

Have to respectfully disagree:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWyKWpMHgho&feature=related

Fedderer's arm is as straight as it can get at contact - and his wrist is laid back. As for me, I have no stress or strain on either side with a straight arm contact. In fact, to prevent tennis elbow one is not supposed to hit with a bent elbow, especially on the backhand.

LeeD "....For a point with scoring, I choose extreme SW, palm almost facing straight up at the sky at impact."

Sounds like a Right Hook - were you a right handed boxer?
But seriously, your observation may lend weight to a possibility that the straight arm contact is a function of grip - Eastern vs Western.

Cheers
Warren

 

[LeeD]

Respectfully disagree with you....
Fed's vid... his arm is almost straight right up to contact, and just before contact, starts to bend at the elbow, exxagerating the bend after contact thru followthru.
Elbow is not straight!
I hope you know a little about physiology. Joints are weakest when straigtened completely. Boxing, karate, gungfu, football (was a linebacker), you never contact anything with elbows locked straight.

 

[whturner]

Respectfully disagree with you....
Fed's vid... his arm is almost straight right up to contact, and just before contact, starts to bend at the elbow, exxagerating the bend after contact thru followthru.
Elbow is not straight!
I hope you know a little about physiology. Joints are weakest when straigtened completely. Boxing, karate, gungfu, football (was a linebacker), you never contact anything with elbows locked straight.

Even in slow motion it is not clear when he starts to use his wrist and bend his elbow into the follow through, so I won't argue the point. I appreciate that you understood "straight" as relative to the minimum angle a particular elbow can achieve. I have about 6 degrees angle between the forearm and upper arm when locked (a better term than "straight", which is ambiguous.).

There is an extensive discussion of the issues on the web site:
Tennis Forehand Technique Dillema – Full Extension Or Not at
http://www.tennisthoughts.com/2009/07/24/tennis-forehand-technique-dillema-full-extension-or-not/

It is really a fun and instructive read - and we will not settle the issue either way if they can't.

Cheers
Warren

PS: I don't want to play you for $, you are above my skill level (in Tennis that is - I was an end when I played Football)