It was certainly close. I'm not denying that. But Nadal was the better player, and only a biased fanboy would argue otherwise. It's like saying Djokovic had no business winning the 2012 AO final.
Getting to the Quarters at RG, A Triumph for Nadal
- Thread starter hoodjem
- Start date
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
Fair enough – I recall it as pretty equal to my eyes, but if anyone was the better player that day, it was probably Rafa. Still, it's completely fair to say that Djoko had the match in his hands by the time of the net-incident.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Nadal completely outplayed Djoko at RG in 2006 and 2007. In 2008 too but unlike previous encounters, the 3rd set was fierce concluded by a great TB. Then Djoko started struggling and they didn't meet again until RG 2012. In that final, Djoko had a period of domination when it started drizzling (the bounce deadened and Djoko got to cruising). The match was stopped and Nadal took charge again in sunny weather.
In 2013- their best match to date at RG- they both alternated periods of brilliance and subpar play (for reasons only known to themselves) and they rarely played their best tennis at the same time but the 5th set was thrilling.
They were both plagued by nerves alternately (Nadal at the end of 4th set and Djoko at the end of the 5th)
Overall, a great thriller with a lot of drama and extraordinary play in patches.
2014 was their weirdest match. They both looked out of sorts but Nadal had more physical reserves it seemed. Djoko ended up cracking on his serve.
In 2013- their best match to date at RG- they both alternated periods of brilliance and subpar play (for reasons only known to themselves) and they rarely played their best tennis at the same time but the 5th set was thrilling.
They were both plagued by nerves alternately (Nadal at the end of 4th set and Djoko at the end of the 5th)
Overall, a great thriller with a lot of drama and extraordinary play in patches.
2014 was their weirdest match. They both looked out of sorts but Nadal had more physical reserves it seemed. Djoko ended up cracking on his serve.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Hum, given his resume at RG, anything less than title will not be a triumph.
Let's say, it will be a semi-triumph if he makes semi or final by beating Djoko even if he doesn't win the whole thing. It will be a very important victory in the history of their rivalry. (Fingers crossed for both of them to make it to quarter)
What possible argument does Djokovic have for being the better player in that match?
Yes, very fair. But the match wasn't finished at that point, and Nadal did enough for the rest of the match to come out as, overall, the better player.
Objectivity test: who was the better player in the following matches at Wimbledon?
Nadal vs Rosol, Darcis, and Kyrigos, respectively.
In most cases, the player who won was the better player. It becomes debatable only in a few cases, like:
1. The losing player won more points (I still go with the winner in most cases)
2. The losing player won more games (I still go with the winner in most cases)
3. There is cheating involved
4. Some wrong calls on extremely important points (Wawrinka-Djokovic from AO 2013 comes to mind)
To answer your question, Rosol, Darcis, and Kyrgios were better players in those matches.
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
I don't recall matches good enough to give you a detailed account. I remember my impressions while watching though and they were that Djoko had what it took to win it - that he had it in his hands at some point.
But evaluating it after watching, Rafa, as I said, was probably the better player if we have to give that title to anyone.
p.s. My hesitation is due to me not concurring to the 'every match has a better player'-meme. Some matches are matches of two equals where one or two key points decide the match. Was the one who got those points the better player? That seems to be the consensus, but I don't think it's that black and white. Coincidence and luck and having the margins on your side happen in tennis too and they sometimes help decide 'who's the better player'.
Mental strength is obviously also key though
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Mick
Legend
they say the courts at Roland Garros are slower and bounce higher. So there is still hope for the Nadal fans
This is beyond dispute. When you're up a break in the deciding set, you have the match on your racquet. So Djokovic was definitely capable and even in control of taking the match. But that is not the point of contention here.
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
well, I can't remember it well enough to dispute the rest, but I've added stuff to my comment above, which should clarify my position
Fair enough. You and I are in agreement, it seems.
Cool. I "teed up" the "he was injured and/or not acclimated to the grass ye" excuse, and you brusquely swatted it aside. One of my favorite players to read about(not see), was Bob Falkenburg, Wimbledon champion from 1947 or 1948, whom Jack Kramer described as having a serve and little else, plus breathing problems, and full cognizant that, in the days of no tiebreaks, which games you won was often more important than how many games you won. Accordingly, if he got down love 30, or a few games, he tanked, to conserve energy and go for that one break, so his scoreline might read, 6-4, 0-6, 7-5, 1-6, 6-4. Kind of an early day Isner. Wasn't too popular with the Brits, and, I suspect, wouldn't have been with you, either, lol.
LOL, I love that story
But you're wrong about what'd be popular with me
Like I said, in most cases, I go with the winner, regardless of who won how many games or points. I can't even think of any exceptions, off the top of my head. Going strictly by points and games wouldn't make sense because I understand players might strategically tank games and points depending on the situation.I guess the Wimbledon 2009 final might be one match where I thought Roddick may have been the better player, but I'll need to watch it again.
LOL, I love that story
But you're wrong about what'd be popular with me
I guess the Wimbledon 2009 final might be one match where I thought Roddick may have been the better player, but I'll need to watch it again.
Wasn't a big fan of Roddick's, but I always thought that his comment from the 2004 final would've been better used at the one you mentioned:
""I threw the kitchen sink at him," a weary Roddick said afterwards. "He went to the bathroom and came back with the tub.:smile:
Btw, Kramer also said that Falkenburg would lunge for a passing shot and fall on the grass, then lay there till the ump told him to get his *** up, and he also got warned for excessive toweling off(no hapless kids gamely bringing one to be hurled back into their face, dripping with sweat, in those days). Oh, and he beat a popular Aussie, John Bromwich, in the finals, despite JB having 2 match points. The first one Falkenburg saved with an ace, but on the 2nd, JB hit a good forcing approach shot and came to the net, BF floated back a return that JB had a play on, but he let it go, and it dropped in. Bad luck, as the Brits might say(or, maybe, NOT well left, lol!). Thus saved, BF went on to win, much to the horror of the fans-and JB not only never won a Slam, but, according to Kramer, was never the same player afterwards. I'm not aware of any other players on the men's side since then who had Championship point and failed to bring home the bacon at Wimbledon.
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hoodjem
G.O.A.T.
Or in the past.
tennis_commentator
Hall of Fame
they say the courts at Roland Garros are slower and bounce higher. So there is still hope for the Nadal fans
Slow helps the gymnastic Djokovic, definitely doesn't help Nadal.
That's why of their last 4 slam meetings, the most lopsided was at the US Open (Nadal won 6-1 in 4th set).
Plus Djokovic/Murray/Federer aren't good enough to beat Nadal at slam events-
Nadal is currently on 4 match winning streak over Djokovic at slams = RGx3, USOx1.
Nadal is currently on 5 match winning streak over Murray at slams = WIMx2, RGx2, USOx1.
Nadal is currently on 6 match winning streak over Federer at slams = AOx3, RGx2, WIMx1.
hoodjem
G.O.A.T.
N
Nathaniel_Near
Guest
Yes, such a triumph if Nadal was to reach the quarters of RG given that he reached a minimum of quarters or better in every clay 1000 this season.
Faaaaaantastic thread.
Faaaaaantastic thread.
hoodjem
G.O.A.T.
It's the best we can hope for, this year.
Cause he sure ain't going beyond the quarters.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Yeah the first week surprised me too. He's done better than last year so far imo.
NatF
Bionic Poster
His draw was soft up until the QF, if he had a big hitter it would have looked different. His form has evened out a bit but it's not great.
tennis_commentator
Hall of Fame
Exactly, he has looked sharper and more engaged so far in this Roland Garros compared to last year's.
He only struck form last year in the 2nd half of the Ferrer match.
And he'll be more physically fresh on Wednesday's QF than he was in last year's Final (not that Ferrer/Murray took much out of him last year, but still, I think he's more physically fresh this time).
E36BMWM3
Hall of Fame
It is my belief that while Nadal didn't intentionally flop matches during the Europen Clay season, his foot wasn't 100% on the gas. His sole focus was perhaps being in the position in which he is now... the underdog at the French. All the pressure's now shifted towards Novak, who's lost to Nadal in Phillipe Chatrier time and time again. Nadal is fresher than he's ever been at the French, and he's gonna leave it all on the court tomorrow...
pc1
G.O.A.T.
We'll see. If Nadal somehow gets pass Djokovic, would anyone bet against him? Right now on form it looks like Djokovic will win fairly easily.
fednad
Hall of Fame
Truer words were never spoken; astrologer
Murrayjuannow
Banned
I'll be so relieved when Djokovic wins his 4th Round match.
It would be tragic if Nadal doesn't get to push Djokovic's face into the clay.
Djokovic doesn't know how to beat Nadal at Roland Garros, and its great that the whole world is so obsessed with Roland Garros now, so Nadal can force such a huge audience to witness 7-0.
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West Coast Ace
G.O.A.T.
Well said. And that universe won't include posting around here for either of these two young lads... They'll slink off for a while - maybe quite a while.
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