Good current D2 college players playing USTA 4.5.

[ChaelAZ]

Problem is 4.5 and 5.0 are too wide of a skill gap.

Mid level players crush bottom players and are crushed by top players.

If 4.5 goes from 6-10 and 5.0 goes from 8-13 that's too big of a gap.

I was reading that in those upper 6+ ranges UTR is supposed to be almost an absolute prediction of outcome. So if a college UTR 10 plays just one step up against an 11, the 11 is said to be the clear favorite. So talking 2 or even 3 UTR points would be huge.

Not sure if that is exactly true, but I have read that and heard it discussed in college tennis as well. But that would also demonstrate how the different from a 4.5 to a 5.0 is also correspondingly large.

 

[Vox Rationis]

Problem is 4.5 and 5.0 are too wide of a skill gap.

Mid level players crush bottom players and are crushed by top players.

If 4.5 goes from 6-10 and 5.0 goes from 8-13 that's too big of a gap.

J

Are you talking about what the range ideally should be? Because I was just talking about what it realistically is right now. I agree there's a huge skill gap within the levels. Way too big to uphold competitive integrity.

But what can they do? Shrink the number of people within each rating level by something like 80% and spread people out amongst the ratings more? Maybe actually use the 1.0-2.0 rating levels? I bet their biggest problem is keeping league big enough for smaller towns to actually have competitive opportunities.

 

[J011yroger]

Are you talking about what the range ideally should be? Because I was just talking about what it realistically is right now. I agree there's a huge skill gap within the levels. Way too big to uphold competitive integrity.

But what can they do? Shrink the number of people within each rating level by something like 80% and spread people out amongst the ratings more? Maybe actually use the 1.0-2.0 rating levels? I bet their biggest problem is keeping league big enough for smaller towns to actually have competitive opportunities.

It's not so much of an issue because you have 5 courts. Unless someone is throwing a court at 4.5 for example a 6 will never play first dubs and a 9 will never play 3rd dubs.

J

 

[BallBag]

Problem is 4.5 and 5.0 are too wide of a skill gap.

Mid level players crush bottom players and are crushed by top players.

If 4.5 goes from 6-10 and 5.0 goes from 8-13 that's too big of a gap.

J

It's a compromise between having enough players for a league and having competitive matches. Those divisions have to work all over the country which doesn't help either. I think most metro areas could support splitting 4.0 and 4.5 into 3 but it would get kinda lonely in the upper third in some areas.

 

[schmke]

Problem is 4.5 and 5.0 are too wide of a skill gap.

Mid level players crush bottom players and are crushed by top players.

If 4.5 goes from 6-10 and 5.0 goes from 8-13 that's too big of a gap.

J

As you get to the 4.5 and 5.0 levels, you get fewer and fewer players at the top end of the range, bell curve distribution of players with the peak around 3.5 and all.

This means that in USTA League play, the strong 4.5s end up playing weaker 4.5s a lot of the time, or even 4.0s playing up, and they don't even have to tank games or matches, it is difficult for them to be bumped up unless they go out intent to crush their opponents.

Throw in plus leagues where you have 5.0s potentially playing these weaker 4.5s or even 4.0s playing up, and you can see how strong 4.5s and 5.0s that should perhaps be bumped up based on their ability, may not be due to the competition they face.

Then throw in the few players that will tank games/matches to keep from being bumped up because they are afraid of being at a level where there is no league for them, and you get the too wide of a skill gap you observe.

 

[schmke]

It's not so much of an issue because you have 5 courts. Unless someone is throwing a court at 4.5 for example a 6 will never play first dubs and a 9 will never play 3rd dubs.

J

But the 5 courts are split into singles and doubles. When you have two singles courts, even without stacking, if one team has weaker singles players and another stronger, and especially in a plus league where a team doesn't have to play their plus player in singles, it is an issue. And while there are 3 doubles courts, again, even without stacking, court 2 can end up having disparity when weaker teams play stronger teams.

 

[Nostradamus]

There are only about 300 men rated 5.0 in Texas. If you aren't in one of the five largest cities, you won't have a league.

True, I think that is why they should just make it 4.5 Plus leagues so that 5.0 guys can just play in these leagues without cheating on the rating. I personally don't mind playing 5.0 and above guys myself, it is a fun challenge for me and I love it. I personally played recent D2 NCAA finalist in the league match and I loved it. It was fun trying to return his serve. and deploying different strategy to see what works and what doesn't.

 

[ShaunS]

True, I think that is why they should just make it 4.5 Plus leagues so that 5.0 guys can just play in these leagues without cheating on the rating. I personally don't mind playing 5.0 and above guys myself, it is a fun challenge for me and I love it.

I like that plus leagues at least present the opportunity to stand up a league where the numbers would otherwise be insufficient.

 

[Goof]

Yes, the lowest 4.5 is utr6.0+

Probably doubles rating and some weak 4.5s moving down or so.

I think ur average legit 4.5 is around UTR8~

4.0 chart also says from 4.5utr to 7.5utr, yet 4.5 starts at 6.0utr.

Its a bit odd.

This makes sense to me. I'm a UTR 7 and typically play #2 singles at 4.5 (where most teams around here stick their worst player), and I win over 75% of my matches at that flight (my #1 singles record is closer to 50%, with some lopsided losses the rare times when the best players are at singles rather than doubles). I regularly play singles recreationally with two guys who are still rated 4.0 but are much better than my typical opponents at 4.5 #2 singles.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

Why not just have a 4.5+ league? Or even after 4.0 just an open league?

 

[J011yroger]

But the 5 courts are split into singles and doubles. When you have two singles courts, even without stacking, if one team has weaker singles players and another stronger, and especially in a plus league where a team doesn't have to play their plus player in singles, it is an issue. And while there are 3 doubles courts, again, even without stacking, court 2 can end up having disparity when weaker teams play stronger teams.

I've played my share of 45 minute matches...

J

 

[Vox Rationis]

Why not just have a 4.5+ league? Or even after 4.0 just an open league?

That wouldn't be smart. We already have two leagues, a 4.5 league and a 5.0+ league. Changing that to just a 4.5+ league would reduce playing options for the majority of those players (since there's way more 4.5s than 5.0s). So now they can only play in one league. Also the resulting league would probably drive away players who don't want to be mixed in with guys two or more rating levels above them.

Also is 5.0+ all that different than a 4.5+ league would be? 4.5 can already play up in 5.0 so the only real change would be to allow 4.0s to play too (like in 40 and over).